Why is ID an issue?

[soundforbjt]

You don't need a state ID or any photo ID to function in American society. State ID also expires and needs to be renewed regularly.
People get by just fine without having to get state ID.
You generally NEED a social security # and birth certificate to function in society.
Neither cost money and both are non-expiring.

Not true if you lose your birth certificate, it will cost you in most states, yet another hurdle for the poor.

 

[ondma]

No, it is irrational to create a burden on exercising your right to vote when that burden doesn’t accomplish anything.

You would agree that imposing costs on people without conferring any benefit is irrational, right?

Well, that "cost" is already imposed for a variety of other purposes as well as voting. I even have to show a photo ID to obtain treatment at my medical clinic. I also had to show a photo ID for the last job that I accepted.

 

[emperus]

I live in MA. I have never shown an id to vote and we have a Republican governor in a blue state.

I would have no issue with a voter id, but not if it builds a barrier to voting especially since there has been no evidence of a need to do so.

But I think this is an issue that could be easily negotiated. I don't think most Dems wouldn't have any issue with voter id as long as it is easy/free to get so it doesn't burden anyone who wants to vote. But these laws are really just designed to disenfranchise people from voting.

 

[emperus]

In many republican controlled states it is now easier to buy a gun than to cast a vote. I even seen some guy handing out bottles of water to people standing in line to...... buy a gun. No water if you're voting, but plenty of Perrier for those gun buying.

As far an ID to vote, I too do not see the problem. I assume these people buy stuff at a grocery store, and cash checks, and oh the so many times people must have an ID, so what's the big deal? The same way that some organizations go door to door to "get out the vote" during election time, the same organizations could do a "get your ID" door to door. It can be done. To say that someone can not get out to get an ID is nonsense, when somehow they are getting out to buy food or to have food delivered. Just ask the same people who deliver the food to help with getting an ID. In most cases I'm sure they would, or could contact some organization that could help with the ID. If they were giving away free money but you needed an ID, you'd bet they would get their ID one way or another.

The question is why? There has to be a reason to enact further burdens to vote. So, people should first answer the question why these laws are needed and then we can go from there.

 

[fskimospy]

Well, that "cost" is already imposed for a variety of other purposes as well as voting. I even have to show a photo ID to obtain treatment at my medical clinic. I also had to show a photo ID for the last job that I accepted.

So what? Whether or not you need an ID for things unrelated to voting has no bearing on requiring an ID to vote.

You wish to impose a cost on the right to vote. It’s only reasonable for me to ask what we as a society are getting in exchange for this cost. What is it? How will voting be made better?

 

[JEDIYoda]

It ensures one ballot per person.






UOTE]

Ensuring one ballot per person at the proper polling place is not 'discouraging people from voting.'

Once you stated this I knew your motive and your question was not a legitimate question!! So Hannity and Fucker Carlson and FOX News are your friends......

Tell me how many people actually voted twice??
You are trying to make an issues out of a non - issue!!

 

[pmv]

Because a National ID card is a good idea and Democrats generally support it?

It’s the ultra right wing crazies that think a National ID is going to be some sort of government plot to lock them up and make them gay, not Democrats.

I can't say I'm that keen on a national ID card system, myself. Feels like just a cultural thing as much as anything. It's just not part of 'Anglo' tradition.

I dunno, on a few topics one sometimes finds oneself uncomfortably on the same 'team' as some right-wing crazies.

On a practical level, which groups are most likely to get stopped by the police and asked to prove their citizenship by producing such an ID card?

Main thing is the complete lack of evidence that voter fraud, of any form that ID could prevent, is any kind of significant issue.

 

[Amol S.]

^^^ You're assuming that the vast majority of people don't already have a photo ID of some form. Which is incorrect. By age 20, it is reasonably unlikely that a person can function in society without an ID. And no one says it has to be issued by any given state's version of DMV. Many Federal IDs are acceptable including Veterans. I got a Veteran's ID by mail, no office visit required.

You're making excuses, not providing real answers.

I don't have a state ID, but when I need an ID at an airport or bank, I use my US Passport. Getting a passport is a lot less hassle than the DMV at NYC. My father once told me the NYC DMV is a MAD HOUSE!!!!!!!

 

[fskimospy]

I can't say I'm that keen on a national ID card system, myself. Feels like just a cultural thing as much as anything. It's just not part of 'Anglo' tradition.

I dunno, on a few topics one sometimes finds oneself uncomfortably on the same 'team' as some right-wing crazies.

On a practical level, which groups are most likely to get stopped by the police and asked to prove their citizenship by producing such an ID card?

Sadly this already happens in the US, so really that ship has sailed.

Arizona SB 1070 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Main thing is the complete lack of evidence that voter fraud, of any form that ID could prevent, is any kind of significant issue.

It sure does seem to me that for this law (or really any law) you should be able to say how it will make things better. I keep asking how voter ID will make things better and no one can provide an answer. To me that seems like a significant problem.

 

[pmv]

As far an ID to vote, I too do not see the problem. I assume these people buy stuff at a grocery store, and cash checks, and oh the so many times people must have an ID, so what's the big deal? The same way that some organizations go door to door to "get out the vote" during election time, the same organizations could do a "get your ID" door to door. It can be done. To say that someone can not get out to get an ID is nonsense, when somehow they are getting out to buy food or to have food delivered. Just ask the same people who deliver the food to help with getting an ID. In most cases I'm sure they would, or could contact some organization that could help with the ID. If they were giving away free money but you needed an ID, you'd bet they would get their ID one way or another.

I don't think I've ever 'cashed a check' in my life. I've deposited them in my bank account, but even that I haven't had to do since, maybe, the mid-90s? (and it didn't require photo ID to do so).

It's perfectly possible to get by most of the time without the kind of photo ID that people talk about requiring for voting, and many people do just that.

 

[Denly]

Cannuck here, I never understand the issue you guys have on ID. We doesn't need to register to vote, in election time gov mail you a notice and tell you the voting center closest to your house. You bring ID, Driver Lic, Health Card, Citizenship, passport...etc of your choose. Health card and Citizenship are free(I think). Moved? You can change your address online, even if you don't change your address gov will send the notice to your new address automatically - don't ask me how.

So what's the issue here? Homeless? How many homeless are truely homeless with no address and no one else? In USA you must have some kind of ID after birth right?

 

[HomerJS]

Hey @Lost_in_the_HTTP why have at no time you advocated for restoring title 5 of the Voting Rights Act? it's the pre-clearance requirement that stopped Republicans from enacting laws that disproportionally effected minorities.

This way any changes would be assured all effected people are treated equally. This way you can have your ID because it must be the ID people in all types of communities have.

 

[feralkid]

Cannuck here, I never understand the issue you guys have on ID. We doesn't need to register to vote, in election time gov mail you a notice and tell you the voting center closest to your house. You bring ID, Driver Lic, Health Card, Citizenship, passport...etc of your choose. Health card and Citizenship are free(I think). Moved? You can change your address online, even if you don't change your address gov will send the notice to your new address automatically - don't ask me how.

So what's the issue here? Homeless? How many homeless are truely homeless with no address and no one else? In USA you must have some kind of ID after birth right?

Here's one example for you, find others by Googling.
Many groups, particularly Native Americans (First Nations) do not have what you would call an address. Or Mail service even if they did. Or a "Birth Certificate", or anywhere within hundreds of miles to get one, for that matter.

 

[pmv]

Cannuck here, I never understand the issue you guys have on ID. We doesn't need to register to vote, in election time gov mail you a notice and tell you the voting center closest to your house. You bring ID, Driver Lic, Health Card, Citizenship, passport...etc of your choose. Health card and Citizenship are free(I think). Moved? You can change your address online, even if you don't change your address gov will send the notice to your new address automatically - don't ask me how.

So what's the issue here? Homeless? How many homeless are truely homeless with no address and no one else? In USA you must have some kind of ID after birth right?

Yeah, but there's only, like, a couple of dozen people in Canada. You probably all know each other personally anyway.

If you weren't all separated from each other by thousands of miles of snow you could just decide who was in charge by having a group meeting in a moderately-sized room.

 

[DrDoug]

It ensures one ballot per person.

How about the Republican official recently arrested in Florida who used his position in government to make lots of fake IDs for himself? An ID does not guarantee that that person is only getting one vote. Regarding ID and voting, I have lived in conservative areas all of my life and nobody would care to have to show ID to vote. It's the Republican officials who are making a stink about it, not their voters. Nobody has ever had to show ID to vote in these areas.

How about here in Oregon? We get our ballots mailed to us and we drop them in handy drop boxes that the counties conveniently locate. That or you can mail them in via the USPS. No standing in lines for hours, hungry, thirsty and needing bathroom breaks, frying in the sun, wet in the rain or freezing in the snow. That's if you can even stand for that long because of various health issues that would make it impossible to stand in line for hours.

I have a better idea... how about making it easy for people and allowing everyone to vote from the comfort of home? We here in Oregon have a paper trail and the ballots can be counted by hand or machine. It's easy, it allows for families to discuss their votes and reasoning behind them, if they so choose.

 

[ondma]

So what? Whether or not you need an ID for things unrelated to voting has no bearing on requiring an ID to vote.

You wish to impose a cost on the right to vote. It’s only reasonable for me to ask what we as a society are getting in exchange for this cost. What is it? How will voting be made better?

Hate to break it to you, but everything has a "cost".

In lieu of showing ID, how do you propose we determine that a person who walks into the polls is in fact eligible to vote? Or are you proposing that we let anyone walk in and vote without proof of age or citizenship?

Edit: I dont really see voting twice, which seems to be the only thing people are talking about in this thread, as the biggest problem. How do you determine eligibility if you dont have some way of determining age and citizenship, especially a metric that doesnt involve some "cost"?

 

[Fenixgoon]

Hate to break it to you, but everything has a "cost".

In lieu of showing ID, how do you propose we determine that a person who walks into the polls is in fact eligible to vote? Or are you proposing that we let anyone walk in and vote without proof of age or citizenship?

it's almost like there's this thing called registration, and this other thing called same-day registration.

and if you impersonate someone else or otherwise lie on either of those, you've committed a felony.


edit: edited for clarity

 

[Pohemi]

In lieu of showing ID, how do you propose we determine that a person who walks into the polls is in fact eligible to vote? Or are you proposing that we let anyone walk in and vote without proof of age or citizenship?

Because they are already registered to vote at the polling station corresponding to their address. The way it is now. If you aren't pre-registered, then yes, you need ID. The law is already like that here, I don't know about every state.

Edit: yep @Fenixgoon beat me to it

 

[ondma]

Because they are already registered to vote at the polling station corresponding to their address. The way it is now. If you aren't pre-registered, then yes, you need ID. The law is already like that here, I don't know about every state.

Yes, and how do you become registered? I am on the roll as a registered voter, I think because I own my home. (@Skimpy: that certainly involves a "cost", paid every six months to the property tax man). I already said that what you describe is basically the system in MN, and I think it is fair. (However, I dont necessarily think it would be any kind of "voter suppression" if one was required to show ID to prove they were in fact the person whose name is on the roll. They could also send out a card to every registered voter to be presented in lieu of a drivers license.)

 

[fskimospy]

Hate to break it to you, but everything has a "cost".

Right, but I’m saying this is a cost for literally zero benefit. That’s insane.

In lieu of showing ID, how do you propose we determine that a person who walks into the polls is in fact eligible to vote? Or are you proposing that we let anyone walk in and vote without proof of age or citizenship?

Edit: I dont really see voting twice, which seems to be the only thing people are talking about in this thread, as the biggest problem. How do you determine eligibility if you dont have some way of determining age and citizenship, especially a metric that doesnt involve some "cost"?

Eligibility is determined at the time of registration, not at the time of voting so voter ID is irrelevant as it comes to determining eligibility. We also haven’t used voter ID for the overwhelming majority of US history.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, and how do you become registered? I am on the roll as a registered voter, I think because I own my home. (@Skimpy: that certainly involves a "cost", paid every six months to the property tax man). I already said that what you describe is basically the system in MN, and I think it is fair. (However, I dont necessarily think it would be any kind of "voter suppression" if one was required to show ID to prove they were in fact the person whose name is on the roll. They could also send out a card to every registered voter to be presented in lieu of a drivers license.)

So you’re saying it’s useful to prevent someone impersonating another voter. Can you show any evidence this happens at a meaningful rate? If you can’t, no need to use ID to prevent it.

 

[ondma]

Right, but I’m saying this is a cost for literally zero benefit. That’s insane.


Eligibility is determined at the time of registration, not at the time of voting so voter ID is irrelevant as it comes to determining eligibility. We also haven’t used voter ID for the overwhelming majority of US history.

But you still didn't answer the question. How do determine eligibility when one registers? Whether it is done ahead of time or on the day of voting, do you think ID should be required?

Edit: the obvious reason to require ID is not to prevent someone voting twice or impersonating someone else, but to ascertain that they are in fact a US citizen (a requirement to vote), not someone who is in the country (legally or illegally) who is not a citizen.

 

[ondma]

So you’re saying it’s useful to prevent someone impersonating another voter. Can you show any evidence this happens at a meaningful rate? If you can’t, no need to use ID to prevent it.

Wow, I guess my Credit Union can stop locking up their money now, since no one has robbed it lately.

 

[ivwshane]

Wow, I guess my Credit Union can stop locking up their money now, since no one has robbed it lately.

I’m sure you’d be ok with banks keeping money of some of its users or making it harder for them to get their money out because reasons, right?

How did primitive Americans do elections before all these voter ID laws? How much fraud was conducted then?

 

[ivwshane]

But you still didn't answer the question. How do determine eligibility when one registers? Whether it is done ahead of time or on the day of voting, do you think ID should be required?

Edit: the obvious reason to require ID is not to prevent someone voting twice or impersonating someone else, but to ascertain that they are in fact a US citizen (a requirement to vote), not someone who is in the country (legally or illegally) who is not a citizen.

Why don’t you do some basic research and figure out how registering vote has happened for the last 200 years?