Why is ID an issue?

[Fanatical Meat]

But that 11% being quoted, what percentage of them actually do vote? It's not like they need new ID each election. Okay they can't vote in upcoming election, if they want to do their civic duty to vote, they'll take the time effort and cost to get it done that one time to allow them to vote in the future.

Note, I'm Canadian. So don't get the halfass procedures Americans have to go through.

typically you walk up to a desk, give that person your name & address, they check a list to see if you are registered then cross your name off the list so you can’t vote twice.
There is only one place to show up to vote for your address, there is only one list for your address.
I mean with all this talk of in person voter fraud happening certainly there should be one person who was turned away because someone already cast a vote for their address. Anyone have proof of this happening?

 

[fskimospy]

A large majority (70%) of our states have voter ID regulations so, right or wrong, they don't feel it is unnecessary.

Voter identification laws by state

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

Right, but that doesn’t change the fact that it actually is unnecessary. Its sole legitimate purpose is to prevent in person voter fraud. If it is necessary for this purpose then we should see meaningful levels of in person voter fraud in states without it.

Do we?

 

[pauldun170]

typically you walk up to a desk, give that person your name & address, they check a list to see if you are registered then cross your name off the list so you can’t vote twice.
There is only one place to show up to vote for your address, there is only one list for your address.
I mean with all this talk of in person voter fraud happening certainly there should be one person who was turned away because someone already cast a vote for their address. Anyone have proof of this happening?

In my county of 1.5 million people, all I've ever had to do for decades is walk up, sign next to my name and address and vote.
One name. One vote. Not one reported issue in 100 years.

 

[pauldun170]

Right, but that doesn’t change the fact that it actually is unnecessary. Its sole legitimate purpose is to prevent in person voter fraud. If it is necessary for this purpose then we should see meaningful levels of in person voter fraud in states without it.

Do we?

Excuse me sir,
In order for you to exercise your right to vote in a federal election, we need you to pay the state for a temporary state level photo id.
We ask because according to our research, such weird mandates test well with FoxNew viewers.

 

[Fenixgoon]

But that 11% being quoted, what percentage of them actually do vote? It's not like they need new ID each election. Okay they can't vote in upcoming election, if they want to do their civic duty to vote, they'll take the time effort and cost to get it done that one time to allow them to vote in the future.

Note, I'm Canadian. So don't get the halfass procedures Americans have to go through.

The whole point is that it shouldn't require substantial time, effort, and/or money to vote.

And when those barriers are in place, certain groups (minorities) are substantially more impacted than your average white person in the US.

lastly, just on principle, a country that values democracy and fair and free elections should be making it easier for civic participation, not harder.

 

[HomerJS]

And never provides a real answer. Only ... we don't feel we should need to. Opinions only.

I'll give you an answer when it comes to voter ID. Republicans always pick a form of ID then KNOW disproportionately disadvantages blacks and other minorities. It's the same with any law changes made by them.

If a federal picture ID, issued free (and associated costs) by the federal government was proposed that could be used in ANY election Republicans would cry foul.

The Gov of GA announced after the second recount the election was free and fair. If that's so then why create new laws based on a lie the election was stolen and the lie of widespread fraud???

Another question for you, what's wrong with auto registering EVERY student when they turn 18 with a SSN?

 

[compcons]

I for one would totally stand in lines for hours to cast my vote. Then, I would go get back in line and do it again. Thankfully, all I have to do is find a name on the list and say it's me since they don't check my ID. Then I can go to another polling station so they don't catch on to my ruse and there I can stand in line for a few more hours and do it again. Then I can get in another line for an hour or 4 and do it again. I figure over a couple of weeks of doing this from 8AM to 7PM, I can cast like a couple of dozen votes. If I can get a few thousand friends to help out, we can totally impact the election. This is definitely realistic and as a criminal mastermind, I am totally happy I don't have to show my ID.

/s

 

[pmv]

It is an American thing, works fine in European democracies.

Not all of them. One thing the Tories are thinking of trying here - following their long-standing practice of copying ideas from the US right - is to introduce a photo-ID requirement for voting.

I don't have one of the proposed "acceptable" photo IDs, nor do many people I know. Like a majority of inner-city dwellers I don't drive and don't have a licence, and my passport expired years ago (I used to be very keen on travelling abroad, but bad health makes it increasingly difficult and the same Tories massively increased the cost of renewing a passport so I stopped bothering getting one).

If it came to it, I'd probably apply to get one of these specific 'voter ID' cards they have talked about introducing...but that's because I am motivated to make such efforts. A lot of people won't be motivated or organized enough to do that, and it will be disproportionately people from certain demographic groups. That's precisely _why_ the Conservatives want to introduce such a system.

The mere fact alone that it will naturally tend to favour drivers (who already have an ID that would be accepted) - which means non-urban people and Jeremy Clarkson fans - is reason enough to be against the idea.

 

[Lanyap]

...

In the UK, each registered voter gets a card through the door a few weeks before voting time. You could mandate that voters take that card with them instead, stick a unique ID/barcode on the card, job done. Still though, why bother?

Just curious because I don't know how voting works in the UK. Do you go to a polling place after you get your voting card reminder? How do they know it's you voting or does it matter because of the way the system is set up.

 

[Meghan54]

In GA, there's a huge list of documents that one can use to prove who you are when you register to vote...you know, that procedure by which the county/state determines if you are truly eligible to vote.

Sadly, none of that documentation that is acceptable for registering is allowed to prove who you are when you go to vote in person.

 

[Meghan54]

It's a flashpoint in the vote thing, but why? Everyone needs some form of ID for most things in everyday life. Everyone can get some form of state issued ID issued, at no cost ... or very low cost.

I've always had to show some form of ID at polling places. Can never remember NOT having to. Exception was if the poll worker recognized you as happens in many rural areas. Prior to last year when our regular polling places were open, I'd walk in, say hello to the poll workers I knew, chat about their family for a second, get my ballot, fill it in, scan it through the reader and be out the door in ten minutes or less. This past year with things all different, I walked in and waited 15 minutes or so. When the previous voter left, they'd wave the next up to the counter. On my turn, they asked for my DL, looked at it, scanned it with a card reader on a computer, then handed it back to me. Handed me a ballot, I did my thing and was out a few minutes later.

No muss, no fuss.

I don't understand why people think presenting ID at a polling place is an issue. To me, it ensures one vote per person and that it was at the correct polling place, nothing more. It doesn't exclude anyone, or add any unreasonable burden. It can also help states to determine the percentage of residents who vote.

So, why exactly is ID an issue? Seems to be a solution seeking a problem.

Why do I say that?

Consider:

• A five-year voter fraud investigation conducted by the George W. Bush administration “turned up virtually no evidence” of organized fraud, in the words of the New York Times. While the investigation did yield 86 criminal convictions as of 2006, many of those appear to have been linked to people misunderstanding eligibility rules or filling out paperwork incorrectly. (This is out of over 100M votes cast nationwide in the 2000 general election, the focus of the investigation.)

• In 2014, a two-year investigation into voter fraud by Iowa's Republican secretary of state yielded 27 criminal charges, a number of which, again, were apparently related to mistakes or misunderstandings of voting rules.

• In December, a Washington Post analysis of news reports found four documented cases of voter fraud out of about 136 million votes cast. That would yield a voter fraud rate of one instance per every 34 million ballots, close to what Levitt's investigation turned up. Two of those fraud cases involved Trump voters trying to vote twice, one involved a Republican election judge trying to fill out a ballot on behalf of her dead husband, and the last involved a poll worker filling in bubbles for a mayoral candidate in absentee ballots in Florida.

• A team of Dartmouth researchers undertook a comprehensive statistical investigation of the 2016 results, looking for evidence of abnormal voting patterns. They checked for evidence of noncitizen voting, dead people voting and tampering by election officials. They didn't find any. “Our findings do strongly suggest, however, that voter fraud concerns fomented by the Trump campaign are not grounded in any observable features of the 2016 presidential election,” they concluded (emphasis theirs). “There is no evidence of millions of fraudulent votes.”

• Trump's assertion of widespread voter fraud contradicts statements by his campaign's lawyers, who stated unequivocally that “all available evidence suggests that the 2016 general election was not tainted by fraud or mistake.” The statement was made in a filing opposing Green Party candidate Jill Stein's recount efforts in Michigan.

• The National Association of Secretaries of State, which represents most of the nation's top election officials (most of whom happen to be Republican), released a statement Tuesday saying, “We are not aware of any evidence that supports the voter fraud claims made by President Trump.”

• In Kansas, the Republican secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for cases of duplicate registration. The project yielded 14 prosecutions, representing 0.000017 percent of the votes cast.

• In 2011, Wisconsin authorities charged 20 people with fraudulent voting in the 2008 elections. Most of these were felons who were ineligible to vote.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/25/here-are-nine-major-investigations-on-voter-fraud-that-found-virtually-nothing/

This is why.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Really? The only time I can think of in recent memory that I was asked for ID was when I was picking up a parcel.

Brit here: We don't need ID when voting, why do you? It's not as if America even has a history of voter fraud.

I think what you really need to do is make yourself work from the beginning: What problem with voting needs solving? None. End of that discussion.

For a bonus prize you can mull over why Republicans constantly want to act like this is a crisis that needs solving and dreaming up ways of restricting voting.

For another bonus prize you can mull over why the average person allegedly has a burning desire to commit voter fraud, and what the risk/reward factors are. To make any meaningful difference to most elections in developed countries, many thousands of fraudulent votes would have to be cast.

As for why voter ID is an issue, it's because it's a tactic devised to discourage people from voting. Arrange your day to vote, get in a queue, wait for ages, realise you forgot your ID. Do you give up and go home? Do you have time to vote along with everything else you need to do that day? While I insist on taking my phone, keys and wallet (containing ID) with me almost every time I leave the house, many people don't.

I'm sure that if you put your mind to it, you can think of other bureaucratic hoops to make would-be voters jump through in order to vote, and you can also probably think of a similarly 'reasonable' reason for the pointless measure.

In the UK, each registered voter gets a card through the door a few weeks before voting time. You could mandate that voters take that card with them instead, stick a unique ID/barcode on the card, job done. Still though, why bother?

Then you find out that R's make purposeful decisions to slow mail.

 

[allisolm]

Right, but that doesn’t change the fact that it actually is unnecessary. Its sole legitimate purpose is to prevent in person voter fraud. If it is necessary for this purpose then we should see meaningful levels of in person voter fraud in states without it.

Do we?

You don't think it is necessary. I don't think it is necessary. We can even back it up statistically. The reality is that 70% of the states have governing bodies that currently DO think it is necessary. And, while there is a lot of noise about Republicans wanting IDs in order to disenfranchise minority voters, it it worth noting that the Florida voter ID law was enacted originally by Democrats. I don't know about any of the other states with voter ID requirements.

 

[fskimospy]

You don't think it is necessary. I don't think it is necessary. We can even back it up statistically. The reality is that 70% of the states have governing bodies that currently DO think it is necessary. And, while there is a lot of noise about Republicans wanting IDs in order to disenfranchise minority voters, it it worth noting that the Florida voter ID law was enacted originally by Democrats. I don't know about any of the other states with voter ID requirements.

Well sure but people believe plenty of fantasies and we don’t indulge those? If someone thinks Jesus rode a dinosaur and wants to outlaw the teaching of evolution do we oppose them or do we say ‘well, that’s what they believe.’

 

[uclaLabrat]

And in some states why are gun permits valid as voter ID while a college ID isnt? Who are they trying to discriminate against there?

It furthers the line of thinking as to what they were trying to accomplish with ID laws in the first place.

In case you needed that insight, when the repubs are perfectly happy to tell you why they do it: to keep younger and POC voters from voting, since they skew liberal.

 

[fskimospy]

And in some states why are gun permits valid as voter ID while a college ID isnt? Who are they trying to discriminate against there?

It furthers the line of thinking as to what they were trying to accomplish with ID laws in the first place.

In case you needed that insight, when the repubs are perfectly happy to tell you why they do it: to keep younger and POC voters from voting, since they skew liberal.

Yes, they certainly are.

Pa. pol: Voter ID helps GOP win state

The state House Republican leader reportedly says the law will "allow" Romney to prevail in November.

www.politico.com

 

[zzyzxroad]

The real question is why are we even having this discussion? The system isn't broke. I think what we rally need are laws to prohibit elected officials from spreading lies about fake voter fraud. The punishment for that should be denaturalization.

 

[ivwshane]

You gotta love people who can’t think outside of their own bubble who support policies that negatively impact others.

Stupid shit people say:
I have an ID therefore getting an ID must be no big deal!

Everything I do requires an ID so surely no is living in a world where they don’t need an ID.

We must have voter ID laws because clearly our election process has been plagued with fraud for over 200 years!

If election integrity means a few hundred thousand people are disenfranchised then I’m ok with it because I know I won’t be one of the people disenfranchised!

These laws don’t affect me so they must not affect anyone.



Ask yourself what’s best for democracy, more people participating or less? Then ask if these Republican laws increase or decrease participation.

 

[HomerJS]

Hey @Lost_in_the_HTTP , does this answer your questions.

 

[feralkid]

Did OP fall asleep with Fox on the telly?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

You generally NEED a social security #

So, put a picture on the SS cards. Issue a Federal ID card at no cost to all citizens. Mandate that states issue a non-expiring voter ID to all registered voters at no cost. Most states already have some sort of IDs for students, seniors, benefit recipients, etc. Put a picture on medical ID or insurance cards. Even some library cards have pictures. Bus or urban transit cards, and on and on and on .....

Let Senior, church, school or other community groups organize drives to help people get them.

I don't have one.

I don't want one. I never needed one before.

I don't think I should need one. You should trust me.

It's too inconvenient. I don't want to wait in line to get one.

It costs too much (make 'em free.)

None of those are valid reasons and to date. no one has posted a valid reason.



Now, if you could show me a state that refuses to issue picture IDs of any kind to certain races .....

 

[feralkid]

Here, get a clue:

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/...ive-american-vote-continues-to-be-suppressed/


Isolating conditions such as language barriers, socioeconomic disparities, lack of access to transportation, lack of residential addresses, lack of access to mail, and the digital divide limit Native American political participation. Changes to voting processes further frustrate the ability of Native Americans to vote.


One small example of a systemic problem that republicans are ignoring or making worse.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

The whole point is that it shouldn't require substantial time, effort, and/or money to vote.

And when those barriers are in place, certain groups (minorities) are substantially more impacted than your average white person in the US.

lastly, just on principle, a country that values democracy and fair and free elections should be making it easier for civic participation, not harder.

The whole point is that it shouldn't require substantial time, effort, and/or money to get an official photo ID and that should not be considered any form of barrier to anything.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

And in some states why are gun permits valid as voter ID while a college ID isnt?

That's the kind of thing that needs to be changed, considering that many colleges are run by states or local governments.

 

[mikeymikec]

Just curious because I don't know how voting works in the UK. Do you go to a polling place after you get your voting card reminder? How do they know it's you voting or does it matter because of the way the system is set up.

Step 1: You move house.
Step 2: You register to vote in that area.
Some time later:
Step 3: An election is coming up, so as a result of your registration, you get a card in the post a few weeks in advance to remind you to vote in the upcoming election, what the election is for, and where your nearest polling station is.
Step 4: On election day, you show up at the polling station, they ask who you are, they tick you off the list, you go vote.