Why in the F*ck are my counties ballots going to be printed in spanish?

[Estrella]

OP needs to get over himself.

CRY MORE!!!

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Because you're a bigot?

Note, I believe citizenship should be required to vote, but America has no official language

so what if it dosen't, state constituitions don't matter anymore? hes voting in the state of colorado, in an election run by the state of colorado, and more than likely on government owned land.

from the state constituition

Section 30a. Official language.
Statute text

The English language is the official language of the State of Colorado.

This section is self executing; however, the General Assembly may enact laws to implement this section.

The point is to make it possible for all citizens to vote. We try to remove as many impediments to citizens voting as possible in this country. This is a result of the time in our history when state and local governments intentionally impeded the right of citizens to vote by requiring them to prove such things as English language literacy. Citizens are not required to speak or read English.

The side effect is that it makes it easier for non-citizens to vote, and that needs to be handled separately without interfering with the ability of citizens to vote.

To become a citizen you are required to be proficient in the English language.

Puerto Ricans are born US Citizens, and they are not required to speak English. If they move to a state they have the same voting rights as any other resident. Their language is Spanish.

/thread

Puerto Rico is a commenwealth not a state. They are a "independent" country with their own government, their country speaks spanish so of course their government conducts business in spanish.

I never once said they were a state. However, anyone born in Puerto Rico is a United States citizen. Period.

There are more Puerto Ricans in New York City than in San Juan. In NYC they can vote just like you or I, and they can vote in any election. In San Juan their votes have limited impact on the US Federal Government. Regardless, Puerto Ricans are UNITED STATES CITIZENS who speak Spanish. There are thousands of Puerto Ricans across the United States.

They *do* have official languages. English and Spanish.

As to whether Puerto Rico is a country or not -- I'm not going to delve into that can of worms. Technically, Puerto Rico is a freely associated United States Terroritory. They have many advantages that the US supplies, and much less of a tax burden.

Anyway, I'm just proving that there are plenty of US Citizens who speak Spanish bi or mono lingually. Your opposition to hearing, seeing, or feeling their language is plain 'ole xenophobia.

I, personally, wouldn't want to live anywhere where I didn't hear different languages, see different races, or get to participate in different cultures. America is a melting pot, and if you want a vanilla white existance, then there is still plenty of land for sale in Idaho.

 

[winr]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I might be the only registered Democrat who supports the concept of a National ID card...Valid for any kind of bank or government transaction, PHOTO ID to be renewed every 2 years. PITA? Possibly, but so is getting/renewing a drivers licence, any kind of professional licence, or other kind of government issued ID.
I'd support the idea of giving them away to those below a certain income level. For me, that's a non-issue, since we give all kinds of support/help to the poor already. (as we should) There is NO reason in this day & age, that a citizen doesn't have some form of valid photo ID. This could fix that.
Make all LEGAL immigrants obtain an ID BEFORE they can start work here. Employers are already required to complete the I-9 paperwork before you can go to work, and a form of ID that is nearly impossible to forge would be a big asset in assuring that they don't hire anyone NOT legal to work in this country.
As it is, the lists of acceptable documents for the I-9 process is crazy:

You need ONE from List A
List A - Documents that Establish Both Identity and Employment Eligibility

U.S. Passport (expired or unexpired)
Certificate of U.S. Citizenship (Form N-560 or N-561)
Certificate of Naturalization (Form N-550 or N-570)
Unexpired foreign passport, with I-551 stamp or attached Form I-94 indicating unexpired employment authorization
Permanent Resident Card or Alien Registration Receipt Card with photograph (Form I-151 or I-551)
Unexpired Temporary Resident Card (Form I-688)
Unexpired Employment Authorization Card (Form I-688A)
Unexpired Reentry Permit (Form I-327)
Unexpired Refugee Travel Document (Form I-571)
Unexpired Employment Authorization Document issued by DHS that contains a photograph (Form I-688B)

OR, ONE from List B,
List B - Documents that Establish Identity

Driver's license or ID card issued by a state or outlying possession of the United States, provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color, and address
ID card issued by federal, state, or local government agencies or entities, provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color, and address
School ID card with a photograph
Voter's registration card
U.S. military card or draft record
Military dependent's ID card
U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner card
Native American tribal document
Driver's license issued by a Canadian government authority
(For persons under age 18 who are unable to present a document listed above
School record or report card
Clinic, doctor, or hospital record
Day-care or nursery school record

AND,
ONE from List C
List C - Documents that Establish Employment Eligibility


U.S. social security card issued by the Social Security Administration (other than a card stating it is not valid for employment)
Certification of Birth Abroad issue by the Department of State (Form FS-545 or Form DS-1350)
Original or certified copy of a birth certificate issued by a State, county, municipal authority, or outlying possession of the United States bearing an official seal
Native American tribal document
U.S. Citizen ID Card (INS Form I-197)
ID card for use of Resident Citizen in the United States (INS Form I-179)
Unexpired employment authorization document issued by DHS (other than those listed under List A).

Far too many people are getting by with forged ID's in the workplace. A National ID card required by ALL citizens and ALL legal immigrants would go a long way toward correcting this problem, AND providing verifiable ID for any and all types of government business in this country...
Yeah, I know, people will equate it to:
Papers! Ve vant to see your papers!

I agree, if you are legally in the US what do you have to fear ??

If you are not here legally why are you breaking the law ??

Do you not respect other Countrys laws ??

 

[Chaotic42]

It's simple. Convince the Federal Government to mandate that English and English only is the official language or put up with the fact that in 20 years we'll all have to habla to get by.

 

[homestarmy]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Armitage
The ID isn't to prove citizenship - just identity. Though a utility bill fails miserably at this as well.
Citizenship is proven by being on the voter registration roles.

I've never understood why requiring a photo ID for voting is considered discriminatory - so long as one can be obtained easily for a nominal fee.

Because you have to pay for it. For poor people, $25 for a state ID card that they don't need for anything other than voting is a lot of money. If you live in a city you may have no need for a driver's license or ID card.

Don't know about you, but IIRC, in FL an ID card is like $3.

Those poor people don't vote anyway, so who cares.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
His point is that a utility bill is grossly insufficient proof of identity.

Of course it's insufficient, but what are they supposed to ask for? I can't think of any alternate option. It's a balancing act between requiring identity to vote, and preventing millions and millions of voters from voting.

The alternative is to require state-issued photo ID and make a state ID available free if you have income below poverty line. (Driver's license should still cost money, if you can afford a car, you can afford a driver's license.)
ZV

Oh, you and I and thousands of people at ATOT know that. That doesn't mean that people would go get them anyway. If a requirement is that citizens must not be prevented from voting, then what about those that just never go get a State ID? You have to draw the line somewhere. There is a *TON* of people that renew their State ID / Driver's License only when it expires, even when they move... meaning that their ID (that "must" be considered valid) is incorrect. It is a *very* common occurance to have a voter's registration more current than that voter's state ID. Why? People don't give a crap if the BMV knows where they live, but by God, they want to vote on the correct issues and candidates.

I see absolutely no reason to allow someone who refuses to go and get FREE ID to vote.

There's a big difference between making the opportunity as equal as we can and rewarding laziness. Besides, the DL or state ID would not need to have current address. It would only be used to verify that the person is who they say they are. The polling place already has a list of eligible voters, so the ID is only needed to provide photo verification of identity.

ZV

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Because you're a bigot?

Note, I believe citizenship should be required to vote, but America has no official language

so what if it dosen't, state constituitions don't matter anymore? hes voting in the state of colorado, in an election run by the state of colorado, and more than likely on government owned land.

from the state constituition

Section 30a. Official language.
Statute text

The English language is the official language of the State of Colorado.

This section is self executing; however, the General Assembly may enact laws to implement this section.

The point is to make it possible for all citizens to vote. We try to remove as many impediments to citizens voting as possible in this country. This is a result of the time in our history when state and local governments intentionally impeded the right of citizens to vote by requiring them to prove such things as English language literacy. Citizens are not required to speak or read English.

The side effect is that it makes it easier for non-citizens to vote, and that needs to be handled separately without interfering with the ability of citizens to vote.

To become a citizen you are required to be proficient in the English language.

Puerto Ricans are born US Citizens, and they are not required to speak English. If they move to a state they have the same voting rights as any other resident. Their language is Spanish.

/thread

Puerto Rico is a commenwealth not a state. They are a "independent" country with their own government, their country speaks spanish so of course their government conducts business in spanish.

I never once said they were a state. However, anyone born in Puerto Rico is a United States citizen. Period.

There are more Puerto Ricans in New York City than in San Juan. In NYC they can vote just like you or I, and they can vote in any election. In San Juan their votes have limited impact on the US Federal Government. Regardless, Puerto Ricans are UNITED STATES CITIZENS who speak Spanish. There are thousands of Puerto Ricans across the United States.

They *do* have official languages. English and Spanish.

As to whether Puerto Rico is a country or not -- I'm not going to delve into that can of worms. Technically, Puerto Rico is a freely associated United States Terroritory. They have many advantages that the US supplies, and much less of a tax burden.

Anyway, I'm just proving that there are plenty of US Citizens who speak Spanish bi or mono lingually. Your opposition to hearing, seeing, or feeling their language is plain 'ole xenophobia.

I, personally, wouldn't want to live anywhere where I didn't hear different languages, see different races, or get to participate in different cultures. America is a melting pot, and if you want a vanilla white existance, then there is still plenty of land for sale in Idaho.

no they can not vote in any election. Puerto Rico is a commenwealth not a state (again) and can not send a electoral college to washington. because of this they can not vote in presidential elections.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Citrix
no they can not vote in any election. Puerto Rico is a commenwealth not a state (again) and can not send a electoral college to washington. because of this they can not vote in presidential elections.

Are you illiterate or something? Perhaps Colorado needs to print special ballots just for you with pictures explaining everything instead of words.

He's not saying Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico can vote in any election in the US, he's saying Puerto Ricans are US citizens, and if they move to the United States (proper) they can vote in our elections. And they're not required to be able to speak English to do so.


Read either of the two posts you replied to about this again. It's really, really obvious what he's saying.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Citrix
no they can not vote in any election. Puerto Rico is a commenwealth not a state (again) and can not send a electoral college to washington. because of this they can not vote in presidential elections.

Are you illiterate or something? Perhaps Colorado needs to print special ballots just for you with pictures explaining everything instead of words.

He's not saying Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico can vote in any election in the US, he's saying Puerto Ricans are US citizens, and if they move to the United States (proper) they can vote in our elections. And they're not required to be able to speak English to do so.


Read either of the two posts you replied to about this again. It's really, really obvious what he's saying.

i can read just fine. here ill bold it for you.

In NYC they can vote just like you or I, and they can vote in any election.

 

[jlbenedict]

Losing Our Country By Losing Our Language - Part 1

Losing Our Country By Losing Our Language - Part 2

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Citrix
no they can not vote in any election. Puerto Rico is a commenwealth not a state (again) and can not send a electoral college to washington. because of this they can not vote in presidential elections.

Are you illiterate or something? Perhaps Colorado needs to print special ballots just for you with pictures explaining everything instead of words.

He's not saying Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico can vote in any election in the US, he's saying Puerto Ricans are US citizens, and if they move to the United States (proper) they can vote in our elections. And they're not required to be able to speak English to do so.


Read either of the two posts you replied to about this again. It's really, really obvious what he's saying.

i can read just fine. here ill bold it for you.

In NYC they can vote just like you or I, and they can vote in any election.

So what part of this don't you understand? There are Puerto Ricans who live all over the US. They are US citizens. They can vote in elections. They are native Spanish speakers. That is a good reason for making ballots available in Spanish.

Mill explained this very well. You're making my head hurt.

 

[ElFenix]

Why in the F*ck are my counties ballots going to be printed in spanish?

maybe you'll want to learn english before complaining that ballots are printed in a language other than english.

Originally posted by: Citrix
i can read just fine. here ill bold it for you.

In NYC they can vote just like you or I, and they can vote in any election.

in new york.

again, do you speak english yourself? because i'm not at all sure you do.

puerto rico as a governmental entity is in a commonwealth relationship with the united states. colorado, as a governmental entity, is in a federal relationship with the united states.
citizens of puerto rico are statutory citizens of the united states. if they are in the proper jurisdiction (somewhere other than puerto rico) they can vote in presidential elections.
citizens of colorado are constitutional citizens of the united states.

 

[LANMAN]

The only thing I can add of value to this is the bank statement.

Banks have to follow guidelines established by their regulators and one of them is the patriot act which enforces the validation of the individual before they open the account.
Hense, you can't get a bank statement if you don't have a valid ID.

I'm not sure about the utility bill, but IMHO I would believe they don't have to follow anything as strict as the banks do.

That's just wrong... Not a citizen? Deport your a$$... I know I don't want you here, and I sure don't want you telling me who you think should be president etc...

--LANMAN

 

[LANMAN]

Don't even get me started on the damn spanish crap.

I don't care if anyone knows spanish.. but when/if your an american, you better know English too! If you don't, then take your 'no obla' ass somewhere else.


--LANMAN

 

[mugs]

No obla

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: LANMAN
Don't even get me started on the damn spanish crap.

I don't care if anyone knows spanish.. but when/if your an american, you better know English too! If you don't, then take your 'no obla' ass somewhere else.


--LANMAN

LOL

'no obla'

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Note, I believe citizenship should be required to vote, but America has no official language

I thought Congress voted to establish English as the official language of the United States of America?

And if not, then that's sad. You live in a country, you learn to speak the language. If I migrated to Germany, I would damn sure learn my German.

Yes, and Germany's official language is German.

America has no official language. There are people in America who have lived here for years and don't speak any English. If you want that changed, write a letter to your senators.

 

[0roo0roo]

cuz spineless folk who think assimilation is a bad word have pushed through this kind of nonsense. its a waste of money. as for folks who think they can march into a country and behave like everyone else has to change to accomadate them...well when americans do that in other countries they are called "ugly americans" because its plain inconsiderate disrespectful and arrogant. so these folks supporting ballots in spanish are basically ugly mexicans or ugly hispanics. but well too many white folks are too afraid of being labeled a racist to stand up to this kind of nonsense.

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
cuz spineless folk who think assimilation is a bad word have pushed through this kind of nonsense. its a waste of money. as for folks who think they can march into a country and behave like everyone else has to chance for them...well when americans do that in other countries they are called "ugly americans" because its plain inconsiderate disrespectful and arrogant. so these folks supporting ballots in spanish are basically ugly mexicans or ugly hispanics.

The ignorance spouted in this post is so rampant and beyond repair that I probably shouldn't even begin to address it. But I will.

America is unlike any other country in that it's been built largely on the backs of immigrants. Our "culture" is an amalgamation of every culture in our borders; to ask someone to abandon their cultural identity is not what America's about.

I will say that I feel English should be voted in as the national language simply for the sake of efficiency. But to declare someone "ugly" simply because they support printing ballots in Spanish AND English is the type of mindset that, if widespread, would doom this country to a future of intolerance and, as already mentioned, ignorance.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I see absolutely no reason to allow someone who refuses to go and get FREE ID to vote.

There's a big difference between making the opportunity as equal as we can and rewarding laziness. Besides, the DL or state ID would not need to have current address. It would only be used to verify that the person is who they say they are. The polling place already has a list of eligible voters, so the ID is only needed to provide photo verification of identity.

ZV

It seems to me that some government organizations are rewarding laziness. Some state (Oregon, maybe?) just went to vote by mail (exclusively). Ohio just passed laws removing the requirement that a voter have to specify a reason to request an absentee ballot, so now anybody can, without needing a reason. As a result, the number of absentee ballot requests has skyrocketed. I can't think of any reason other than that the voter's do not want to go to the polls on election day.

You may not, but I guarantee that there are plenty of supreme court judges that disagree. I'll refrain from citing case law, as IANAL, but I am certain that you could easily find more than sufficient history to back up my opinion.

And while I suppose the state ID would not *have* to have a current address, I'd almost side on making it mandatory to have the correct address. Why, you ask? How is the elections board supposed to know if the voter has moved? That's a huge indicator. You wouldn't believe the number of people that move, and continue to vote at their former polling location, or (my favorite) update their mailing address, but insist that their address of residence is the same as it was previously (hint: it rarely is).

 

[herm0016]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I might be the only registered Democrat who supports the concept of a National ID card...Valid for any kind of bank or government transaction, PHOTO ID to be renewed every 2 years. PITA? Possibly, but so is getting/renewing a drivers licence, any kind of professional licence, or other kind of government issued ID.
I'd support the idea of giving them away to those below a certain income level. For me, that's a non-issue, since we give all kinds of support/help to the poor already. (as we should) There is NO reason in this day & age, that a citizen doesn't have some form of valid photo ID. This could fix that.
Make all LEGAL immigrants obtain an ID BEFORE they can start work here. Employers are already required to complete the I-9 paperwork before you can go to work, and a form of ID that is nearly impossible to forge would be a big asset in assuring that they don't hire anyone NOT legal to work in this country.
!

ftw! QFT!