Why in the F*ck are my counties ballots going to be printed in spanish?

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Turin39789
Shenanigans always occur with voter registration, and with vote counting and with every aspect of voting. They always have and they always will.

So let's not do anything to improve this situation at all. Instead, let's simply say that we can't fix it so we shouldn't try because, after all, a little fraud doesn't hurt. :roll:

ZV

Just pointing out that you can't eliminate it all together. It's not like it isn't possible to make a fake id of your neighbor who's ultility bills you sometimes get in your mail. The poster I quoted was addressing people who thought that "no shenanigans" could happen with voter registration.

 

[chambersc]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: chambersc
Surely, you're not implying that American citizens ONLY speak english.

no. what i am implying is that all governments in the US conduct their business in english.

which is just a coincidence because up until about a decade ago the only prominent language spoken was english. do you oppose conducting business in America under different languages?

 

[Jeff7]

When I went to vote, I believe the only "ID" I needed to give was to sign a piece of paper.

 

[Reckoner]

I just give them my name and they let me do my thang.

 

[Isla]

I find people who only speak one language to be annoying and dull.

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: Isla
I find people who only speak one language to be annoying and dull.

I speak the language of love :heart:

 

[preslove]

OP, you're a fvcking moron. Only citizens can register to vote. The voter roles are already there and you use a utility bill as proof of IDENTITY!

Please, mr. nativist moron, STFU. Illegals aren't voting in your municipality.


As for spanish ballots, many new citizens can read spanish much better than english. They can get by with english, but aren't as good at it. This comes into play much more when you have ballot inititives with complicated wording (the quality of translation might come into play here, though. I could see a scummy elections official tilting the latino vote with a certain wording on a translation).

Again, there is no god damn conspiracy to enfranchise illegals, you p&n loon. The people this is aimed at clean your toilets and don't read english well or need a picture ID. You don't need a drivers license to ride the bus to your crappy service job.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Turin39789
It's not like it isn't possible to make a fake id of your neighbor who's ultility bills you sometimes get in your mail. The poster I quoted was addressing people who thought that "no shenanigans" could happen with voter registration.

It's not impossible, but it's far less probable.

There's no reason that something as easily obtained as a utility bill should be sufficient to prove identity.

ZV

 

[Isla]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: Isla
I find people who only speak one language to be annoying and dull.

I speak the language of love :heart:

LOL!

Well, that counts. So does Java and being able to read music.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: preslove
OP, you're a fvcking moron. Only citizens can register to vote. The voter roles are already there and you use a utility bill as proof of IDENTITY!

His point is that a utility bill is grossly insufficient proof of identity.

ZV

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: loki8481
as if any of our votes mean anything.

diebold already knows the outcome of the next election.

WTF :|

Originally posted by: mugs
Edit: To be clear, I am completely against non-citizens voting, but I don't think that can be enforced in a way that potentially prevents citizens from voting.

So, instead of even attempt to restrict the pool of voters to those that are citizens, you would rather let anyone vote? Wow.

Oh, and the utility bill and that statement, from what I've heard from some people higher than myself, is an attempt at ensuring residence address, not identity.

Originally posted by: mugs
The side effect is that it makes it easier for non-citizens to vote, and that needs to be handled separately without interfering with the ability of citizens to vote.

How, exactly, is that supposed to work? Yes, you must legally be a citizen to register, but how is each Board of Elections supposed to verify that?

Originally posted by: Jeff7
When I went to vote, I believe the only "ID" I needed to give was to sign a piece of paper.

How long ago was that?

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
His point is that a utility bill is grossly insufficient proof of identity.

Of course it's insufficient, but what are they supposed to ask for? I can't think of any alternate option. It's a balancing act between requiring identity to vote, and preventing millions and millions of voters from voting.

I can't defend everything about elections in this nation. There are a lot of things really screwed up... but I don't really bitch very loudly, unless I can think of an alternate solution that will work that meets the required goals and limitations.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: preslove
OP, you're a fvcking moron. Only citizens can register to vote. The voter roles are already there and you use a utility bill as proof of IDENTITY!

His point is that a utility bill is grossly insufficient proof of identity.

ZV

No. He is saying that illegals are voting in his town. Read his post again. His problem is that an immigrant can get a utility bill, thus an immigrant can vote because all that is required at the polling booth is that utility bill.

He is a fvcking moron.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
His point is that a utility bill is grossly insufficient proof of identity.

Of course it's insufficient, but what are they supposed to ask for? I can't think of any alternate option. It's a balancing act between requiring identity to vote, and preventing millions and millions of voters from voting.

The alternative is to require state-issued photo ID and make a state ID available free if you have income below poverty line. (Driver's license should still cost money, if you can afford a car, you can afford a driver's license.)

ZV

 

[JSFLY]

Originally posted by: Citrix
A utility bill to ID? what kind of crap is that? since when is a utility bill proof of citizenship? and why is my county printing ballots in spanish? The last time i read it the Fifteenth Amendment says citizens of the united states have the right to vote.

doesnt the word citizen have any meaning anymore? If you are here in my country illegally then you CAN NOT VOTE!!! :|

http://www.co.weld.co.us/departments/cl...corder/voter_lookup/voter_id_info.html

DO YOU HAVE YOUR ID?

You will need to bring an acceptable form of identification to the polling place in order to vote.

Any one of the following will be considered acceptable form of identification at the polling place:

Ø A valid Colorado driver?s license

Ø A valid Colorado Department of Revenue identification card

Ø A valid U.S. passport

Ø A valid pilot?s license issued by the Federal Aviation Administration

Ø A valid employee identification with a photograph issued by the U.S. government, Colorado state government, or any county, municipality, board, authority, or other political subdivision of the state

Ø A valid U.S. Military identification card with photograph

Ø A copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows the elector?s name and address (a cable bill; a telephone bill; documentation from a public institution of higher education in Colorado containing at least the name, date of birth, and residence address of the student elector; or a paycheck from a government institution or private company are sufficient forms of ID)

Ø A valid Medicare or Medicaid card

Ø A certification copy of a U.S. birth certificate

Ø Certified document of naturalization

Some forms of identification may not contain an address. If the address appears on the identification, the address must be in Colorado

Biggggggggot.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: Atheus
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses willing to work cheap.

Quoted for modernity.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
The alternative is to require state-issued photo ID and make a state ID available free if you have income below poverty line. (Driver's license should still cost money, if you can afford a car, you can afford a driver's license.)

ZV

<ted kennedy> but then poor people will be disenfranchised!</ted kennedy>

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
His point is that a utility bill is grossly insufficient proof of identity.

Of course it's insufficient, but what are they supposed to ask for? I can't think of any alternate option. It's a balancing act between requiring identity to vote, and preventing millions and millions of voters from voting.

The alternative is to require state-issued photo ID and make a state ID available free if you have income below poverty line. (Driver's license should still cost money, if you can afford a car, you can afford a driver's license.)
ZV

Oh, you and I and thousands of people at ATOT know that. That doesn't mean that people would go get them anyway. If a requirement is that citizens must not be prevented from voting, then what about those that just never go get a State ID? You have to draw the line somewhere. There is a *TON* of people that renew their State ID / Driver's License only when it expires, even when they move... meaning that their ID (that "must" be considered valid) is incorrect. It is a *very* common occurance to have a voter's registration more current than that voter's state ID. Why? People don't give a crap if the BMV knows where they live, but by God, they want to vote on the correct issues and candidates.

 

[BoomerD]

I might be the only registered Democrat who supports the concept of a National ID card...Valid for any kind of bank or government transaction, PHOTO ID to be renewed every 2 years. PITA? Possibly, but so is getting/renewing a drivers licence, any kind of professional licence, or other kind of government issued ID.
I'd support the idea of giving them away to those below a certain income level. For me, that's a non-issue, since we give all kinds of support/help to the poor already. (as we should) There is NO reason in this day & age, that a citizen doesn't have some form of valid photo ID. This could fix that.
Make all LEGAL immigrants obtain an ID BEFORE they can start work here. Employers are already required to complete the I-9 paperwork before you can go to work, and a form of ID that is nearly impossible to forge would be a big asset in assuring that they don't hire anyone NOT legal to work in this country.
As it is, the lists of acceptable documents for the I-9 process is crazy:

You need ONE from List A
List A - Documents that Establish Both Identity and Employment Eligibility

U.S. Passport (expired or unexpired)
Certificate of U.S. Citizenship (Form N-560 or N-561)
Certificate of Naturalization (Form N-550 or N-570)
Unexpired foreign passport, with I-551 stamp or attached Form I-94 indicating unexpired employment authorization
Permanent Resident Card or Alien Registration Receipt Card with photograph (Form I-151 or I-551)
Unexpired Temporary Resident Card (Form I-688)
Unexpired Employment Authorization Card (Form I-688A)
Unexpired Reentry Permit (Form I-327)
Unexpired Refugee Travel Document (Form I-571)
Unexpired Employment Authorization Document issued by DHS that contains a photograph (Form I-688B)

OR, ONE from List B,
List B - Documents that Establish Identity

Driver's license or ID card issued by a state or outlying possession of the United States, provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color, and address
ID card issued by federal, state, or local government agencies or entities, provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color, and address
School ID card with a photograph
Voter's registration card
U.S. military card or draft record
Military dependent's ID card
U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner card
Native American tribal document
Driver's license issued by a Canadian government authority
(For persons under age 18 who are unable to present a document listed above
School record or report card
Clinic, doctor, or hospital record
Day-care or nursery school record

AND,
ONE from List C
List C - Documents that Establish Employment Eligibility


U.S. social security card issued by the Social Security Administration (other than a card stating it is not valid for employment)
Certification of Birth Abroad issue by the Department of State (Form FS-545 or Form DS-1350)
Original or certified copy of a birth certificate issued by a State, county, municipal authority, or outlying possession of the United States bearing an official seal
Native American tribal document
U.S. Citizen ID Card (INS Form I-197)
ID card for use of Resident Citizen in the United States (INS Form I-179)
Unexpired employment authorization document issued by DHS (other than those listed under List A).

Far too many people are getting by with forged ID's in the workplace. A National ID card required by ALL citizens and ALL legal immigrants would go a long way toward correcting this problem, AND providing verifiable ID for any and all types of government business in this country...
Yeah, I know, people will equate it to:
Papers! Ve vant to see your papers!

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: chambersc
Surely, you're not implying that American citizens ONLY speak english.

no. what i am implying is that all governments in the US conduct their business in english.

Puerto Rico does?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Because you're a bigot?

Note, I believe citizenship should be required to vote, but America has no official language

so what if it dosen't, state constituitions don't matter anymore? hes voting in the state of colorado, in an election run by the state of colorado, and more than likely on government owned land.

from the state constituition

Section 30a. Official language.
Statute text

The English language is the official language of the State of Colorado.

This section is self executing; however, the General Assembly may enact laws to implement this section.

The point is to make it possible for all citizens to vote. We try to remove as many impediments to citizens voting as possible in this country. This is a result of the time in our history when state and local governments intentionally impeded the right of citizens to vote by requiring them to prove such things as English language literacy. Citizens are not required to speak or read English.

The side effect is that it makes it easier for non-citizens to vote, and that needs to be handled separately without interfering with the ability of citizens to vote.

To become a citizen you are required to be proficient in the English language.

Puerto Ricans are born US Citizens, and they are not required to speak English. If they move to a state they have the same voting rights as any other resident. Their language is Spanish.

/thread

 

[Hossenfeffer]

OP's word for the day: decaf.

 

[teddyv]

Only citizens can register to vote

This is the great quote of this thread. But it is wrong.

Only citizens are SUPPOSED TO register to vote. Unfortunately in many places the form simply asks the registrant to sign affirming that he is a citizen, able to vote. Anyone can register to vote. When I was in Ohio in 2004 I came across over 30 valid registrations for various spellings of "Fred Flintstone" in a single 1-bedroom apartment. You see, the only confirmation process (in Ohio, and most other places) is a card that is sent out by the Board of Elections to the registrant informing him of his precinct. If it comes back in the mail the registration is invalid and should be struck (but if the person shows he can still vote by provisional ballot per HAVA.)

So what is the practical affect of this? Lots and lots of non-citizens voting (in Texas in 2004 one candidate actually encouraged illegals to register and to vote), and of course lots and lots of phantom people whose names are kept on lists and election day thes list keepers are able to go vote as many of these names as they have time (and available precincts.) Seems far fetched until you have folks in the field following a UAW bus of people voting precinct to precinct with the same folks being told by the same person the name they will vote at the next precinct.

Voter ID laws are a great step in making elections more fair for everone. I do agree states should offer subsidised state ID and papers establishing citizenship (birth certificate) to those below a certain income level to stifle the hollow disenfranchisement claims. As was mentioned, you need an ID (and often proof of citizenship) for everything from employment to opening a bank account to even entering many government buildings.

Personally I would like to see proof of citizenship as well as identity, but then again I'd like to see Congress apportioned by the number of citizens instead of just anyone, legal and illegal alike, that can fill out a Census short form.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Mill
Puerto Ricans are born US Citizens, and they are not required to speak English. If they move to a state they have the same voting rights as any other resident. Their language is Spanish.

/thread

I believe this deserves a PWNED.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Because you're a bigot?

Note, I believe citizenship should be required to vote, but America has no official language

so what if it dosen't, state constituitions don't matter anymore? hes voting in the state of colorado, in an election run by the state of colorado, and more than likely on government owned land.

from the state constituition

Section 30a. Official language.
Statute text

The English language is the official language of the State of Colorado.

This section is self executing; however, the General Assembly may enact laws to implement this section.

The point is to make it possible for all citizens to vote. We try to remove as many impediments to citizens voting as possible in this country. This is a result of the time in our history when state and local governments intentionally impeded the right of citizens to vote by requiring them to prove such things as English language literacy. Citizens are not required to speak or read English.

The side effect is that it makes it easier for non-citizens to vote, and that needs to be handled separately without interfering with the ability of citizens to vote.

To become a citizen you are required to be proficient in the English language.

Puerto Ricans are born US Citizens, and they are not required to speak English. If they move to a state they have the same voting rights as any other resident. Their language is Spanish.

/thread

Puerto Rico is a commenwealth not a state. They are a "independent" country with their own government, their country speaks spanish so of course their government conducts business in spanish.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: preslove
OP, you're a fvcking moron. Only citizens can register to vote. The voter roles are already there and you use a utility bill as proof of IDENTITY!

His point is that a utility bill is grossly insufficient proof of identity.

ZV

No. He is saying that illegals are voting in his town. Read his post again. His problem is that an immigrant can get a utility bill, thus an immigrant can vote because all that is required at the polling booth is that utility bill.

He is a fvcking moron.

nice name calling, shows how smart you are. if your done how about adding some real meat to your arguement instead of trying to shut me up with calling me a moron and bigot.

and yes that is what i am saying. tell you what come to my house on election day and ill give you my dish bill and you can go vote for me.

see my point, is this to difficult for you, do you not see that this has nothing to do with a persons race?