Why I'm voting for Obama

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
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This election I've decided I'm going to cast my ballot to Barack Obama. One of my reasons is because as a fiscally conservative libertarian, Obama is the most conservative of both major party candidates. Proof: http://www.breitbart.com/artic...19UJF80&show_article=1 ; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25133125/ As well, he tends to only support the welfare state, rather than McCain's insistence on maintaining the welfare and warfare state.

I would like to vote for Bob Barr, as I respect him as he's a prominent former Republican and a good one at that.. but I have a cousin in Iraq (combat MOS) and was nearly shot in the face last month by an AK47. We can't afford to play politics with our families lives and McCain is determined to ensure my cousin is dead if he's elected. He's stated that he wants a 100 year occupation, and an invasion of Iran. Of which we do not have the troop counts to successfully pull off without using nuclear weaponry. Obviously, releasing that genie from the bottle is not one I support over taking over 3rd world middle eastern nations that pose no threat to anyone besides themselves.

Usually, I would support a 3rd party in disgust over the two major parties. I am one who believes anyone who is a diehard Republican or Democrat is more often than not- a complete dumbass if you really speak with them. This isn't sports, you don't have a team and if you didn't do the right thing supporting the right policies than what have you really won putting in your Democrat or Republican?

This election comes down to life and death, with high implications for WW3 if this powerkeg explodes and we don't pull out of the region. I hope other people out there decide to help me save my beloved cousin's life and many other peoples family members who are just as precious as my own.

I will return to voting to 3rd party once we are out of the mideast and we've returned to a policy of noninterventionism. If Obama fails us as the Democratic congress in '06 did to stop the war, I will return to voting for the Libertarian party. My only complaint with Obama is his socialistic leanings (which don't matter if we're all dead), and his insistence on invading Pakistan. More of our interventionism and "freedom", which the world has had enough of, and no more troops or innocent civilians need to die for.

Wars will always happen, and people will always die, but the blood doesn't have to be on our hands.

Thanks and hope there are some others out there who understand my point of view. Here's to voting in Barack Obama our next President of the United States of America! :beer:
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
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Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I would like to vote for Bob Barr, as I respect him as he's a prominent former Republican and a good one at that.. but I have a cousin in Iraq (combat MOS) and was nearly shot in the face last month by an AK47. We can't afford to play politics with our families lives and McCain is determined to ensure my cousin is dead if he's elected. He's stated that he wants a 100 year occupation, and an invasion of Iran. Of which we do not have the troop counts to successfully pull off without using nuclear weaponry. Obviously, releasing that genie from the bottle is not one I support over taking over 3rd world middle eastern nations that pose no threat to anyone besides themselves.

:confused: Huh?
 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
1
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Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I would like to vote for Bob Barr, as I respect him as he's a prominent former Republican and a good one at that.. but I have a cousin in Iraq (combat MOS) and was nearly shot in the face last month by an AK47. We can't afford to play politics with our families lives and McCain is determined to ensure my cousin is dead if he's elected. He's stated that he wants a 100 year occupation, and an invasion of Iran. Of which we do not have the troop counts to successfully pull off without using nuclear weaponry. Obviously, releasing that genie from the bottle is not one I support over taking over 3rd world middle eastern nations that pose no threat to anyone besides themselves.

:confused: Huh?

Am I vexing you? What's your question ace I can help you out a little bit.

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Because you're not a real libertarian? Sorry, but it's true.

It might only be true that you see it that way.

A real libertarian supports saving our civil liberties, such as the right to life. To not die in an unjust, illegal war. The fact you don't care enough about the lives of our family members overseas tells me that you are the one who is definitely not a libertarian.

A libertarian != Libertarian btw.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
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No true libertarian could look at Obama-McCain and pick Obama due to tax and spend issues.

They don't even compare. Look at Obama's plan to spend hundreds of billions more per year compared to McCain's plan to have almost no spending increases.

Now there are certainly other reasons you could pick Obama over McCain, but taxes and spending certainly is not one of them.

BTW Bill Clinton promised a middle class tax cut as well... :roll:
 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
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That's simply not true. Obama supports spending money here, to develop our own nation.
McCain wants to spend money there, to develop other nations for illegal occupations and a global empire. Big difference. They are both tax n spend liberals, but Obama is less so.

If you don't count borrowing huge amounts of money from foreign nations to continue our global empire as "expenses" then tell that to the unborn who will reap the devastated economy we're putting into motion. Obama is less in favor of nation building and interventionism. He's more for nation building here in the USA. Our bridges are falling down, our fields and cities are flooded and our children are off dying to protect private mideast interests.

You can't cut taxes without cutting spending, and at least Obama supports cutting taxes for the true strength of America (the middle class).
Bill Clinton != Barack Obama. And I'll take Barack's promise of a middle class tax cut over McCain's outright opposition to a middle class tax cut.

Regardless of the financial issue, we will be less safe under a McCain presidency and more Americans will be killed and maimed. Not to mention all the civilians that will lose their lives facing our liberation's.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
No true libertarian could look at Obama-McCain and pick Obama due to tax and spend issues.

They don't even compare. Look at Obama's plan to spend hundreds of billions more per year compared to McCain's plan to have almost no spending increases.

Now there are certainly other reasons you could pick Obama over McCain, but taxes and spending certainly is not one of them.

BTW Bill Clinton promised a middle class tax cut as well... :roll:

:confused: WTF are you smoking, PJ?

McCain's plan is considerably more expensive than Obama's. And McCain will plunge the nation deeper into debt as well.

The fact is that no TRUE conservative could possibly believe that the Republicans are the more fiscally responsible party, with their budgetary track record the past 40 years.

That you Republican hacks can still cling to these 2 obviously false notions, that your party is more libertarian and more fiscally conservative, when it clearly is not... well, that is why you're not getting my vote. Maybe if you woke up and stopped being in such denial.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
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Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I would like to vote for Bob Barr, as I respect him as he's a prominent former Republican and a good one at that.. but I have a cousin in Iraq (combat MOS) and was nearly shot in the face last month by an AK47. We can't afford to play politics with our families lives and McCain is determined to ensure my cousin is dead if he's elected. He's stated that he wants a 100 year occupation, and an invasion of Iran. Of which we do not have the troop counts to successfully pull off without using nuclear weaponry. Obviously, releasing that genie from the bottle is not one I support over taking over 3rd world middle eastern nations that pose no threat to anyone besides themselves.

:confused: Huh?

Am I vexing you? What's your question ace I can help you out a little bit.

The paragraph I quoted made no sense. You'd like to vote for Barr, but, uhhh, why not?
 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
1
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Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I would like to vote for Bob Barr, as I respect him as he's a prominent former Republican and a good one at that.. but I have a cousin in Iraq (combat MOS) and was nearly shot in the face last month by an AK47. We can't afford to play politics with our families lives and McCain is determined to ensure my cousin is dead if he's elected. He's stated that he wants a 100 year occupation, and an invasion of Iran. Of which we do not have the troop counts to successfully pull off without using nuclear weaponry. Obviously, releasing that genie from the bottle is not one I support over taking over 3rd world middle eastern nations that pose no threat to anyone besides themselves.

:confused: Huh?

Am I vexing you? What's your question ace I can help you out a little bit.

The paragraph I quoted made no sense. You'd like to vote for Barr, but, uhhh, why not?

Because I have a cousin in Iraq (combat MOS) and was nearly shot in the face last month by an AK47. We can't afford to play politics with our families lives and McCain is determined to ensure my cousin is killed in war if he's elected. He's stated that he wants a 100 year occupation of Iraq, and an invasion of Iran. Of which we do not have the troop counts to successfully pull off without using nuclear weaponry. Obviously, releasing that genie from the bottle is not one I support to take over 3rd world middle eastern nations that pose no threat to anyone.

I would support Barr, to further the Libertarian party's power.. but this election cycle it's a matter of WW3/life+death depending if we get Insane McCain in there. Obviously Obama has the best chances of defeating McCain and his policies line up enough with what we need that I can support him with a clear conscience.

Simply put, from the two major parties, I do have 1 choice that will substantially increase the chances that my cousin's life will be spared. Rather than have someone I care about so much die in vain. Obama will keep us safe and be better for our economy as well being the conservative in the race.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I would like to vote for Bob Barr, as I respect him as he's a prominent former Republican and a good one at that.. but I have a cousin in Iraq (combat MOS) and was nearly shot in the face last month by an AK47. We can't afford to play politics with our families lives and McCain is determined to ensure my cousin is dead if he's elected. He's stated that he wants a 100 year occupation, and an invasion of Iran. Of which we do not have the troop counts to successfully pull off without using nuclear weaponry. Obviously, releasing that genie from the bottle is not one I support over taking over 3rd world middle eastern nations that pose no threat to anyone besides themselves.

:confused: Huh?

Am I vexing you? What's your question ace I can help you out a little bit.

The paragraph I quoted made no sense. You'd like to vote for Barr, but, uhhh, why not?


Yeah, because the reasons suggested are a bit of misinformation and spin. If those are the best reasons for security and foreign policy for one to vote for Obama instead of Barr, then they aren't really paying attention.

I'm seeing a bit of a surge in Barr support here in Iowa, I may just pull the trigger for him so we can atleast send a message to the Republican party that we want Conservatives/Libertarians to vote for.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
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you seem to be basing your opinion on two assumptions -- that a US withdraw from Iraq won't destabilize the country to a point where we've got to go right back in (or that some other country wouldn't) and that Obama is actually serious when he says that he'll get us out of Iraq.

he's left enough loopholes open for himself to drive a tank through.

Because I have a cousin in Iraq (combat MOS) and was nearly shot in the face last month by an AK47.

what was your cousin expecting when s/he joined the army?
 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
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Originally posted by: loki8481
you seem to be basing your opinion on two assumptions -- that a US withdraw from Iraq won't destabilize the country to a point where we've got to go right back in (or that some other country wouldn't) and that Obama is actually serious when he says that he'll get us out of Iraq.

he's left enough loopholes open for himself to drive a tank through.

Uh huh. And I already addressed this. Sure, it's not 100% Obama will get us out of Iraq. But at least we have a decent shot with him. Once we get out of Iraq, going back in won't happen unilaterally.

McCain? It's a sure bet we're staying in Iraq for 100 years, and we get to occupy Iran, maybe more. You're guaranteed to get far more American deaths with McCain, there is no chance of anything else happening with him.

Because I have a cousin in Iraq (combat MOS) and was nearly shot in the face last month by an AK47.

what was your cousin expecting when s/he joined the army?

To not have the US military be abused.
Is that what you are endorsing? This misuse of American force in the world?

I don't think it's right have invaded Iraq, nor to continue it, nor to do it again in Iran.
 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
1
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Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
If those are the best reasons for security and foreign policy for one to vote for Obama instead of Barr, then they aren't really paying attention.

Bob Barr won't beat Obama or McCain in the general election. Voting for him is great, and I would in a time of peace.. but we are in a time of war and people are dying including some of us with a family.

For those of us with soldiers in harms way, this is serious. For you, it's a big joke and politics.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Now there are certainly other reasons you could pick Obama over McCain, but taxes and spending certainly is not one of them.

True.

BTW Bill Clinton promised a middle class tax cut as well... :roll:

And we know how that ended.

 
Jun 27, 2005
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I really can't stand either one of them. I am seriously, for the first time in my life, considering not voting this time around. There is nobody for me to vote for.

Anybody want to buy my vote?
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I really can't stand either one of them. I am seriously, for the first time in my life, considering not voting this time around. There is nobody for me to vote for.

Anybody want to buy my vote?

I'll give ya some good porn for it. PM me.
 

Rockinacoustic

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2006
2,460
0
76
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
If those are the best reasons for security and foreign policy for one to vote for Obama instead of Barr, then they aren't really paying attention.

Bob Barr won't beat Obama or McCain in the general election. Voting for him is great, and I would in a time of peace.. but we are in a time of war and people are dying including some of us with a family.

For those of us with soldiers in harms way, this is serious. For you, it's a big joke and politics.

In times of peace there would be no motive to vote for the "radical" ideals of a third party candidate like Barr. Change doesn't happen in the people flocking to the calling of the popular voice, it happens in them going against the majority.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
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Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I really can't stand either one of them. I am seriously, for the first time in my life, considering not voting this time around. There is nobody for me to vote for.

Anybody want to buy my vote?

and our previous candidates made you feel as if there was someone TO vote for? haha ;)
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
1
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Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I really can't stand either one of them. I am seriously, for the first time in my life, considering not voting this time around. There is nobody for me to vote for.

Anybody want to buy my vote?

and our previous candidates made you feel as if there was someone TO vote for? haha ;)

I have a pretty high tolerance for crap... or maybe I used to have a high tolerance for crap and my resistance has eroded over the years. I don't know anymore. All I know is when I look at both guys I throw my hands up and ask what the difference is. Neither one of them do anything for me.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
1
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Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I really can't stand either one of them. I am seriously, for the first time in my life, considering not voting this time around. There is nobody for me to vote for.

Anybody want to buy my vote?

I'll give ya some good porn for it. PM me.

Porn is not hard to find... I want ca$h. ;)
 

OFFascist

Senior member
Jun 10, 2002
985
0
0
There is absolutely nothing fiscally conservative about universal healthcare and the like.

As a libertarian I'm voting for McCain because he atleast knows and believes that the 2nd amendment isnt about hunting, while Obama "claims" to support the second amendment but only refers to it in regards to protecting the rights of hunters.

The 2nd amendment is not at all about hunting.

As for the economic issues, no good can come from "giving" the government more money. It doesnt matter what they say the money is for, if you give government more money it has more power, power that can be used against people in one way or another.

Obama claims he wants to raise taxes on the rich, guess what that money will make the government more powerful, doesnt matter that the money isnt coming out of my pocket or even yours it will have a detrimental effect if only because that power will eventually be abused "again" in some way.
 

OFFascist

Senior member
Jun 10, 2002
985
0
0
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Because I have a cousin in Iraq (combat MOS) and was nearly shot in the face last month by an AK47. We can't afford to play politics with our families lives and McCain is determined to ensure my cousin is killed in war if he's elected.

Its okay to say you are going to vote for Obama out of personal self interest, or atleast what you think will be in your best interest. As we can never truly know what all the future consequences of the choices we make.

Saying that your voting for Obama because he's the more libertarian candidate though is pretty ridiculous.

I'm voting for McCain because as a gun owner and a gun right supporter its in my best interest. Additionally I prefer his energy policies, we need to allow for more nuclear power plants and more drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.

Obama is for a whole lot more socialism, which is definitely not very libertarian, and will infact make government more powerful which will make it all the worse when it is abused.

He's stated that he wants a 100 year occupation of Iraq, and an invasion of Iran.

Put in context, he is referring to the kind of permanent base situation we have in say Germany and South Korea. We are still there, presumably at some point Iraq will be a similar situation.

Although I havent quite heard where McCain says he is for invading Iran, I do hear the Democrats all crying that he is though.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
An independent analysis comparing the tax plans for McCain and Obama found that McCain's plan ran a deficit that was $1.1 trillion higher.

Here's another good reason not to vote McCain.

It's funny that all these "conservatives" won't vote Obama citing his domestic spending increases, yet they'll conveniently ignore McCain's plan to ship our wealth overseas to Iraq for the next century. And he's much more likely to "bomb, bomb Iran" than Obama, plunging us into yet another costly, unnecessary conflict.

I'd rather have my tax dollars hiring a new teacher here in the USA versus filling a Humvee's gas tank in Iraq. If that's "Obama's socialist vision", sign me up.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
If those are the best reasons for security and foreign policy for one to vote for Obama instead of Barr, then they aren't really paying attention.

Bob Barr won't beat Obama or McCain in the general election. Voting for him is great, and I would in a time of peace.. but we are in a time of war and people are dying including some of us with a family.

For those of us with soldiers in harms way, this is serious. For you, it's a big joke and politics.

Yeah because obviously since I'm not voting for Obama, it must all be a big joke and politics... :roll:
No where did I say Barr would or could win, however, I am likely going to sit out or vote Barr based on PRINCIPLE, not some convoluted nonsense like you are spouting. If you want to vote Obama because you've bought his promise of getting out of Iraq(that he's back tracked on) then fine but to suggest it's because he's more fiscally responsible or anything of that nature is pure BS and spin. He's certainly no libertarian although I think what makes a few of you supposed "libertarians" like him is his isolationist-ish rhetoric. Vic seems to eat it up too which is the only rational thing I can think of as to why a hardcore libertarian would actively support a leftist liberal.
 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
1
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Instead of quoting and responding everyone who addressed me, I think I can sum up an answer for everyone by saying that the reason Obama must win is because McCain is far to insane and dangerous. It's not that Obama is the definitive conservative, or the definitive peacemaker..

but he is the MOST conservative of him and McCain. He is the MOST peaceful of the two as well. I agree with jpeyton, we should be spending that money here at home if anywhere.

Yes Obama is in my best interests, he is if you give a crap about soldiers dying in vain. Or if you're middle class. My point about his policies is that if we are all dead in an escalating war in Iran which could easily spread (as I truly believe McCain is capable of accomplishing).. then none of that stuff matters!

But you can rest assured that Obama is the more conservative of the two candidates anyway if you really look into them. McCain was a traitor a long time to the traditional conservative Republicans. He's proamnesty, he's a not opposed to universal healthcare, and he's as liberal and crazy as they come.. not to mention a warmonger! If you think you're doing the Republican party a favor by voting him in, all you are really doing is solidifying the destruction of the conservative wing of the Republican party by continuing to endorse the Bush agenda for another 4 years.

Even if this wasn't all true, when the vote comes down to life or death, the rest (yakking on about principles, honor, spending) doesn't matter.