Why I'm voting for Obama

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Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
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I am still considering Bob Barr and Wayne Allyn Root. But I'm eager to see who Obama picks for VP. My paramount issue is clearly deescalating the war in Iraq. If he picks someone with strong military credentials, I'm going to have to go with that ticket. I'm tired of know-nothings in there like Bush getting pushed around by the neocons.

But mostly, I fear McCain more than Osama Bin Laden. McCain must be stopped or he'll get us all killed. That's not the best motivator out there (for most people apparently).. but back in 2004 too many people voted for Bush when we'd been far better off with Kerry (or Gore), looking back at how our civil liberties have been raped. I hate the lesser of two evils to. But when it's life and death, and McCain is out of his damn mind.. there is not really a choice to be made. In a time of peace, yes. But this senseless murder of Americans has to stop and if McCain gets in there it will almost certainly escalate into a larger conflict and possibly WW3.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Vic
Conservative Bush/McCain supporters pretending to be libertarians because they support guns rights and low taxes is like if socialists pretended to be libertarians because they support free speech and gay marriage. It's ridiculous and you're only fooling yourselves.

So is that why you pretend?
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I am still considering Bob Barr and Wayne Allyn Root. But I'm eager to see who Obama picks for VP. My paramount issue is clearly deescalating the war in Iraq. If he picks someone with strong military credentials, I'm going to have to go with that ticket. I'm tired of know-nothings in there like Bush getting pushed around by the neocons.

But mostly, I fear McCain more than Osama Bin Laden. McCain must be stopped or he'll get us all killed. That's not the best motivator out there.. but back in 2004 too many people voted for Bush when we'd been far better off with Kerry (or Gore), looking back at how our civil liberties have been raped. I hate the lesser of two evils to. But when it's life and death, and McCain is out of his damn mind.. there is not really a choice to be made. In a time of peace, yes. But this senseless murder of Americans has to stop and if McCain gets in there it will almost certainly escalate into a larger conflict and possibly WW3.

Most likely, Obama is going to be our next president.

If you want to try to make some difference, then vote for Barr, and try to send a message to the Republican party, a clear message that you want fiscal responsibility and a better foreign policy. If you vote for Obama, you send the wrong message to the Republican party. Are they to believe you want an even bigger government? You need to vote for who best reflects your interests regardless of their chance of winning.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
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Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Vic
Conservative Bush/McCain supporters pretending to be libertarians because they support guns rights and low taxes is like if socialists pretended to be libertarians because they support free speech and gay marriage. It's ridiculous and you're only fooling yourselves.

So is that why you pretend?

I don't. Thanks for trolling yet again.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I am still considering Bob Barr and Wayne Allyn Root. But I'm eager to see who Obama picks for VP. My paramount issue is clearly deescalating the war in Iraq. If he picks someone with strong military credentials, I'm going to have to go with that ticket. I'm tired of know-nothings in there like Bush getting pushed around by the neocons.

But mostly, I fear McCain more than Osama Bin Laden. McCain must be stopped or he'll get us all killed. That's not the best motivator out there.. but back in 2004 too many people voted for Bush when we'd been far better off with Kerry (or Gore), looking back at how our civil liberties have been raped. I hate the lesser of two evils to. But when it's life and death, and McCain is out of his damn mind.. there is not really a choice to be made. In a time of peace, yes. But this senseless murder of Americans has to stop and if McCain gets in there it will almost certainly escalate into a larger conflict and possibly WW3.

Most likely, Obama is going to be our next president.

If you want to try to make some difference, then vote for Barr, and try to send a message to the Republican party, a clear message that you want fiscal responsibility and a better foreign policy. If you vote for Obama, you send the wrong message to the Republican party. Are they to believe you want an even bigger government? You need to vote for who best reflects your interests regardless of their chance of winning.

This is the "pragmatism" we need from Conservatives and L/libertarians, not the "2 party, lesser evil" type pragmatism.
 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
1
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Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I am still considering Bob Barr and Wayne Allyn Root. But I'm eager to see who Obama picks for VP. My paramount issue is clearly deescalating the war in Iraq. If he picks someone with strong military credentials, I'm going to have to go with that ticket. I'm tired of know-nothings in there like Bush getting pushed around by the neocons.

But mostly, I fear McCain more than Osama Bin Laden. McCain must be stopped or he'll get us all killed. That's not the best motivator out there.. but back in 2004 too many people voted for Bush when we'd been far better off with Kerry (or Gore), looking back at how our civil liberties have been raped. I hate the lesser of two evils to. But when it's life and death, and McCain is out of his damn mind.. there is not really a choice to be made. In a time of peace, yes. But this senseless murder of Americans has to stop and if McCain gets in there it will almost certainly escalate into a larger conflict and possibly WW3.

Most likely, Obama is going to be our next president.

If you want to try to make some difference, then vote for Barr, and try to send a message to the Republican party, a clear message that you want fiscal responsibility and a better foreign policy. If you vote for Obama, you send the wrong message to the Republican party. Are they to believe you want an even bigger government? You need to vote for who best reflects your interests regardless of their chance of winning.

I don't agree with Obama on all issues, but I do want him as our next President. I trust his judgement. As I've said a few times.. McCain scares the daylights out of me.. as a working American who works 5 to 7 days a week, follows the law, pays my taxes.. I just want someone with a brain on their shoulders running this place for once.

Obama with a military man as VP would be able to stand up to the military industrial complex to get us going in the right direction. The Republican party will crumble from inside anyway.

I think voting Obama sends the message to the Rep party though, because if enough people do not support Obama, then McCain will win and they'll get confirmation the neocon schtick is worth sticking with forever.

That said, I do NOT dissuade people from supporting Barr/Root because almost all those votes are stolen from McCain or were preexisting votes set for the Libertarian candidate.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
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I think voting Obama sends the message to the Rep party though, because if enough people do not support Obama, then McCain will win and they'll get confirmation the neocon schtick is worth sticking with forever.
Exactly. And that must not happen.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: Vic
I think voting Obama sends the message to the Rep party though, because if enough people do not support Obama, then McCain will win and they'll get confirmation the neocon schtick is worth sticking with forever.
Exactly. And that must not happen.

I would think that a vote for Barr is a vote taken away from McCain rather than Obama.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,544
6,144
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The definition of a moron has to be a person who lived for 8 years under Bush and wants to vote for McCain. No, moron is too kind. Such a person has an unconscious death wish for America.
 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
1
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The definition of a moron has to be a person who lived for 8 years under Bush and wants to vote for McCain. No, moron is too kind. Such a person has an unconscious death wish for America.

I agree with this. There's nothing more anti-American than supporting John McCain. He's essentially Bush's 3rd term and determined to rack up more American deaths in foreign conflicts, and without a doubt supports the Patriot Act, Directive 51 and all other brilliant USSR-style big gov't initiatives the Bush admin started up.

John McCain wants nothing more than to fight Vietnam 2.0, but this time he thinks he can win it if he's in control.

Unfortunately this is not Vietnam, but rather the redux of the Crusades. A war against an entire culture and religion based in the desire for reshaping the world. Hence the rhetoric in the need for perpetual war and pre-emptive warfare, before we've ever been attacked.
We learned centuries ago that the arabs were not going to change us in the west, and we weren't going to change them. Simply because they have black gold now and many evangelical Americans will willingly sacrifice their children for Israel's defense does not mean that fact established after hundreds of years of war will change.

The fact is, pre-emptive warfare, the Bush Doctrine, is necessary due to the absence of any real threat to America. Almost all attacks that have gotten us into wars in the past were either setups or allowed to happen by our own government. They then play the sorry "we're incompetent" card, give up more of your liberty to get more control over society, and use it as an excuse to get us into war.

It's amazing, considering all this, how anyone can support John McCain who is indeed a continuation and escalation of the Bush Doctrine.
McCain doesn't want you dead, nor your children but he does think your life is expendable for this cause.. I for one disagree wholeheartedly and think if Obama doesn't defeat him, no one else will. We have no choice but to elect Barack Obama.
 

OFFascist

Senior member
Jun 10, 2002
985
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Originally posted by: Obsoleet
I wonder how old some of you are to tell me what I am and am not.. the very fact I say I'm a libertarian is proof enough that I want to identify with that group,

Man, you can identify yourself with whatever you want, that doesnt mean that you are that, or that others see you that way.

I can say I'm Black, but that doesnt make it so, and people who know me know that I'm not. This is America though, you can call yourself whatever you are, but if others dont believe that you are its their right to call you if they choose to.

I certainly dont believe that Barry "hope and change, more government is the answer" Obama is in any way libertarian except in maybe the most indirect ways that say more democrats are libertarian.

and I've certainly done more for libertarian minded candidates from all parties than almost any of you here.

Well congratulations, give yourself a pat on the back, you want a cookie now?

So what? I voted for McCain in the 2000 primaries because I liked him then and thought he would be better than Bush. I voted for Bardnarik, in 2004 because I liked him better than Bush and Kerry at the time. I'm going to vote for McCain again because I think he is the best candidate now.

BTW the "anmesty" you complaining about McCain for now, guess what open borders and free travel are "libertarian" ideals as well as a free market.

Obama most certainly is not for a free market.

That being said as to who is actually more a libertarian, the loudmouth or the person who has taken action for the cause.. let me ask, who is more of a libertarian minded candidate of the two candidates who stand a shot at defeating one another? McCain or Obama?

McCain because he knows what the right to keep and bear arms is about. Obama still thinks its about hunting which is funny because he claims to be a Constitutional scholar. I certainly dont want someone who doesnt know what our Constitution is about to be our president.

 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
1
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Originally posted by: OFFascist
BTW the "anmesty" you complaining about McCain for now, guess what open borders and free travel are "libertarian" ideals as well as a free market.

Under usual circumstances that's true. Ron Paul has stated that it is true, and I do agree with that free travel is best.. until it becomes to proportions of an invasion, which is what it has become.
A country with no borders, is no country at all.

Of course we need to crack down on illegal aliens. That's clear to anyone but the furthest left liberal you can find, or a libertarian who doesn't understand Ron Paul's stance which is true and correct. There is a difference. Again, all secondary to stopping the war.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
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Originally posted by: juiio
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: ebaycj
So what I think the OP is saying is that he is a small-L libertarian who is choosing to be pragmatic this election cycle and voting for the lesser of the two evils that actually stand a chance at getting elected, instead of throwing his vote away on an unelectable big-L Libertarian candidate.

Why is voting for a 3rd party candidate so often considered "throwing the vote away?"


Personally, I often consider a vote for either of the major parties a vote that is thrown away.

I'm not going to throw my vote away just because so many others do.

Not following the herd does not make one lost.

:confused:

Because, 99% of the time it is?

If you think that voting third party is throwing a vote away, then surely you must think that voting D or R in a race that was decided by more than one vote was throwing your vote away also?

Just because your candidate doesn't win or wins/loses by a large margin doesn't mean your vote is a throw-away vote.

I don't know that beyond a doubt.

I do know that voting for 3rd Party or not voting at all is in essence a vote for McCain and if McCain wins thats another four years of Neo-Conservatism and hard "Christian" beliefs in our government.

This is something I don't want. At all.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
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Obama preaches CHANGE!!!. well thats all we will have in our pockets if he gets elected, change.
 

Excelsior

Lifer
May 30, 2002
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Originally posted by: Vic
I think voting Obama sends the message to the Rep party though, because if enough people do not support Obama, then McCain will win and they'll get confirmation the neocon schtick is worth sticking with forever.
Exactly. And that must not happen.

Yep. Thats one of the reasons I am voting for Obama as well. Not because I agree with him on every issue...hell, there will never be a candidate that I would agree with on every issue.

But I want a loss for the republican party so that it can reflect on where it has gone, and where it should be.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: loki8481
you seem to be basing your opinion on two assumptions -- that a US withdraw from Iraq won't destabilize the country to a point where we've got to go right back in (or that some other country wouldn't) and that Obama is actually serious when he says that he'll get us out of Iraq.

he's left enough loopholes open for himself to drive a tank through.

Because I have a cousin in Iraq (combat MOS) and was nearly shot in the face last month by an AK47.

what was your cousin expecting when s/he joined the army?

I dunno, serving in a capacity of national defense, and not international offense?
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
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Libertarian here. I'm probably going to vote Obama as well although I cringe at the fact he will increase the size of government. I also don't agree with his stupid windfall tax on oil companies, nor do I agree with taxing the rich MORE than the middle class. I cringe at more possible gun control. I don't like his war mongering regarding Iran and Pakistan, although it's probably all bark and no bite (unlike McCain who would bite ANYTHING because he's batsht crazy). Obama's universal healthcare plan has "SUCK" written all over it (although healthcare companies ARE out of control lately and need to be reeled in a tad, but universal is not the answer IMO). I don't like the fact that Obama is for abortion, however he is against partial birth (18+ weeks) which isn't exactly what I believe but it's better than a full abortion advocate.

However, from a pragmatic (and not ideaological) point of view, on the issues that matter most to me, he is the best chance we have at restoring our international reputation by pulling out of Iraq (one of my most important issues since I have friends there). He will most likely find a way to reduce gas prices (once he realizes his windfall tax is absurd). He will get rid of BS no-bid contracts/war profiteering and hopefully create more governmental transparency (i.e. abolish the stupid shroud of secrecy from this admin). Sure, he's status quo but I'll take that over the Loony Bin republican that is McCain or flipflopper Barr. All I want is our international reputation, as well as our dollar (which may or may not happen with Obama), to be restored. I'm happy with 1 of 2.

Barr is my only other option or I can write in Ron Paul. Bob Barr should NOT be representing the Lib party in any way, shape, or form. Any moron that supported the war on drugs and tried to block medical marij is not a Libertarian. He also voted for the Patriot Act, which he supposedly now "regrets". He wants "Wiccans" banned from the military (another WTF?). I don't know how this clown is the Lib rep... all I know is his track record says he's been a Republican hiding behind the Lib moniker for 4 years. Which doesn't make him qualified to represent the Lib party IMO.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
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Originally posted by: Obsoleet
This election comes down to life and death, with high implications for WW3 if this powerkeg explodes and we don't pull out of the region. I hope other people out there decide to help me save my beloved cousin's life and many other peoples family members who are just as precious as my own.


There's no evidence that Iraq is a powderkeg about to explode in WWIII. In fact, quite the opposite.

Moreover, IMO, other than the rhetoric there's no substantial difference between the parties concerning Iraq policy. And no one knows if pulling out would do more harm than staying in.

How will it affect your vote if the Iraqi's decide we should pull out anyway at year end? I.e., the Iraq *war* may not even be an issue at year's end. The UN has decided it will not extend the mandate unless Iraq requests it to do so, and the Iraq parliment has passed a law saying only they can approve any such request - so it's up to the Iraqi's now.

I mean this in good faith- I think less focus on the emotional aspect of your cousin's well-being and more focus on the issues/policies would better serve to guide your vote. Neither candidate is particularly well-suited for anyone with a libertarian bent, and Obama particulalry.

This thread should probably be entitled "Why I'm abandoning my libertarian beliefs - for my cousin in the military".

Fern
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The definition of a moron has to be a person who lived for 8 years under Bush and wants to vote for McCain. No, moron is too kind. Such a person has an unconscious death wish for America.

Unlike most of your posts this statement is deliberately blunt but I enjoyed it nonetheless! :thumbsup:
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Obama has never run anything. He has never had to set up and keep a budget for a town, a city, a state, and much more important the Federal Government. What makes you think he is capable? His solution will be more taxes.

The worst part is that he has no clue what to do about the War in Iraq. When Obama started running for office he claimed he would pull out of Iraq, and now he seems to be waffling on that claim. Was he lying then or is he lying now?
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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Originally posted by: piasabird
Obama has never run anything. He has never had to set up and keep a budget for a town, a city, a state, and much more important the Federal Government. What makes you think he is capable? His solution will be more taxes.

What has McCain ran? An airplane? The guy got shot out of the sky. He almost went to prison for being corrupt. He cheated on his crippled wife. Failure, failure, failure.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
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Originally posted by: piasabird
Obama has never run anything. He has never had to set up and keep a budget for a town, a city, a state, and much more important the Federal Government. What makes you think he is capable? His solution will be more taxes.

The worst part is that he has no clue what to do about the War in Iraq. When Obama started running for office he claimed he would pull out of Iraq, and now he seems to be waffling on that claim. Was he lying then or is he lying now?
Obama is most likely going to get a running mate who knows what to do in Iraq, like Clark.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Obama should be held to his word. Pull out has to occur within 60 days of him taking office.

Obama changed his middle name to Osama, and now he is ashamed of it.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
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Originally posted by: piasabird
Obama should be held to his word. Pull out has to occur within 60 days of him taking office.

Obama changed his middle name to Osama, and now he is ashamed of it.
Nice troll, I give it a 6/10.