Why does nvidia cheat so much?

[96Firebird]

In general the AMD cards do fine -- especially considering the 6970 costs 200$ less than GTX 580, and is the same price as the GTX 570 (and outperforms it).

"In general"...

The GTX 580 is only $100 more than the 6970, so your $200 price gap is a lie. Take a look at prices on Newegg, lowest GTX 580 is $414AR and the lowest 6970 is $319AR.

The 6970 performs on par with the GTX 570, and gets beat by the GTX 580. This is a well known fact.

Keep trying, and failing...

Maybe you like Nvidia because they give you free stuff?:biggrin:.

Then I'd say they are treating their customers very well...

 

[Idontcare]

Maybe you like Nvidia because they give you free stuff?:biggrin:.

Do you post this in the comment section of every AMD GPU article you read as well?

Implying that if the author of the review article gives the AMD GPU a thumbs-up or a best-buy rating that they are biased because the gear was free to them?

How many members do you suppose we have here posting in these forums that receive free AMD kit? I know a few without even putting much effort into tabulating it.

 

[blackened23]

"In general"...

The GTX 580 is only $100 more than the 6970, so your $200 price gap is a lie. Take a look at prices on Newegg, lowest GTX 580 is $414AR and the lowest 6970 is $319AR.

The 6970 performs on par with the GTX 570, and gets beat by the GTX 580. This is a well known fact.

Keep trying, and failing...

I actually own both a crossfire 6970 in one system, and a 580 in the other. I bought my 2nd 6970 for 330$ on sale. I see GTX 580's still on newegg for 500$+, unless you get a cheap brand (ergo PNY)...the gigabytes, MSI, EVGA are all 490$+. I won't go on a google spree but the difference, on average, is more than 100$. I bought the 580 for system #2 because the 6970's are pretty loud, and I plan on modding my 580 with an accelero. Quietness matters a lot to me, and the 6970s are pretty loud with default fan throttling.

The only reviews showing GTX 570 and 6970 even are reviews from 2010/early 2011 that used catalyst 10.x drivers. With 11.6+, the gap has narrowed signifigantly between the GTX 580 and radeon 6970. Would you like me to go on a google spree to prove it? Ask and you shall receive. Now of course the GTX 580 is faster in a lot of games - but the difference is pretty small most of the time -- from my own testing its usually 5 fps or less. I could also post more reviews if you wish, the post I made on page 4 shows the 6970 being within 4 fps of the GTX 580 in almost all games, except a few -- that was from some german review done recently.

Aside from that, do you really need to make fanboy posts like this? This is going through a cycle where proof of nvidia being unethical is posted, then you retort with taunts talking about how much you love nvidia. We get it. You like nvidia a lot. The cheerleader crap is getting old.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I actually own both a crossfire 6970 in one system, and a 580 in the other. I bought my 2nd 6970 for 330$ on sale. I see GTX 580's still on newegg for 500$+, unless you get a cheap brand (ergo PNY)...the gigabytes, MSI, EVGA are all 490$+. I won't go on a google spree but the difference, on average, is more than 100$. I bought the 580 for system #2 because the 6970's are pretty loud, and I plan on modding my 580 with an accelero. Quietness matters a lot to me, and the 6970s are pretty loud with default fan throttling.

The only reviews showing GTX 570 and 6970 even are reviews from 2010/early 2011 that used catalyst 10.x drivers. With 11.6+, the gap has narrowed signifigantly between the GTX 580 and radeon 6970. Would you like me to go on a google spree to prove it? Ask and you shall receive. Now of course the GTX 580 is faster in a lot of games - but the difference is pretty small most of the time -- from my own testing its usually 5 fps or less. I could also post more reviews if you wish, the post I made on page 4 shows the 6970 being within 4 fps of the GTX 580 in almost all games, except a few -- that was from some german review done recently.

Aside from that, do you really need to make fanboy posts like this? This is going through a cycle where proof of nvidia being unethical is posted, then you retort with taunts talking about how much you love nvidia. We get it. You like nvidia a lot. The cheerleader crap is getting old.

I am still waiting for source code examples...unless of course you made this trhead in order to flamebait and without any evidence at all?

 

[96Firebird]

Aside from that, do you really need to make fanboy posts like this? This is going through a cycle where proof of nvidia being unethical is posted, then you retort with taunts talking about how much you love nvidia. We get it. You like nvidia a lot. The cheerleader crap is getting old.

Fanboy post? I went to Newegg.com and searched for 5 minutes, sorted by lowest price and took a look at what the prices were after rebate. All that took a lot less time than the whole wall of text you posted. I know facts are hard to swallow, but that is a part of life...

And thanks for the attack, I guess facts strike a nerve with you...

 

[Genx87]

Nothing proprietary can change gaming, just look at PhysX. In order to change gaming you need open standards especially in the PC market. If you want to enhance the experience for your user base that's fine with me that's why I never cry about PhysX because it's not a necessity but an additional option nVidia graphics cards have just like Eyefinity is something AMD cards have but is not required to play a game. I hate consoles but the day I read a "nVidia GPU only" or a "AMD GPU only" as a requirement to play a game I will jump ship to consoles.

As for the OP stop being a lunatic, these guys a business anything to get a leg over the competitor is fair game. I may not agree with it but their goal is to make money not please us gamers.

What do you call Glide and DirectX?

PhysX and Havoc are changing gaming by introducing real physics to the experience.

 

[Seero]

Nothing proprietary can change gaming, just look at PhysX. In order to change gaming you need open standards especially in the PC market. If you want to enhance the experience for your user base that's fine with me that's why I never cry about PhysX because it's not a necessity but an additional option nVidia graphics cards have just like Eyefinity is something AMD cards have but is not required to play a game. I hate consoles but the day I read a "nVidia GPU only" or a "AMD GPU only" as a requirement to play a game I will jump ship to consoles.

DirectX is exclusive to Microsoft Operating System which is also known as PC. There are many other OSes, like OSX, and linux, but they don't support DirectX. OpenGL on the other hand is cross-platform. Did Dx11 changed the way games are being designed with as tessellation API calls?

Please read what I said, you won't have "Nvidia only" games or "AMD only" games. They will love to, but they don't have anything that have enough traction to change the momentum of the tech trend. No one will integrate this tech. However, if AMD come up with a new set of API calls that can simply maps all existing games that are writing with DirectX calls to itself and run 10x faster with only 10% of foodprint on resources, then people will use it, even if it doesn't work on Nvidia. Unfortunately, such technology does not exist, yet.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Do you post this in the comment section of every AMD GPU article you read as well?

Implying that if the author of the review article gives the AMD GPU a thumbs-up or a best-buy rating that they are biased because the gear was free to them?

How many members do you suppose we have here posting in these forums that receive free AMD kit? I know a few without even putting much effort into tabulating it.

You can defend Keys if you want, but you know there's a bit of a difference between a reviewer given hardware to review that also gets hardware from other companies (namely competitors) and someone given it specifically to post in a forum to spread propaganda for you and FUD against your competitor.

What exactly are you saying with the rest? You seem to be making some pretty serious implications. Are you talking about reviewers that get hardware from both AMD and Nvidia? Or are you saying there are AMD biased members that have not openly identified themselves as such?

 

[SirPauly]

On proprietary,

I also have to give kudos to Nvidia for coming out with CUDA and pushing the whole GPGPU market in a certain direction.

For the ones that don't know, Terry is CatalystMaker of AMD. He may not believe in proprietary but understand that it can push a market in a certain direction.

 

[formulav8]

You can defend Keys if you want, but you know there's a bit of a difference between a reviewer given hardware to review that also gets hardware from other companies (namely competitors) and someone given it specifically to post in a forum to spread propaganda for you and FUD against your competitor.

What exactly are you saying with the rest? You seem to be making some pretty serious implications. Are you talking about reviewers that get hardware from both AMD and Nvidia? Or are you saying there are AMD biased members that have not openly identified themselves as such?

I agree with the bolded part that he does that.

But the rest I don't think thats what he meant though?


And ANYONE thinking that nVidia doesn't do anti-competitive business practices is purposely trying to cover the fact. Why anyone would defend a stupid corporation that could care less about you is so nutty. AC (I think thats who is it) was also a big example of it. Although AMD is no angel I don't recall them ever doing as much as nvidia does. But if they did then they should be punished as well as well as nvidia. Period. I can't stand the greed in this world....

 

[Capt Caveman]

I actually own both a crossfire 6970 in one system, and a 580 in the other. I bought my 2nd 6970 for 330$ on sale. I see GTX 580's still on newegg for 500$+, unless you get a cheap brand (ergo PNY)...the gigabytes, MSI, EVGA are all 490$+. I won't go on a google spree but the difference, on average, is more than 100$. I bought the 580 for system #2 because the 6970's are pretty loud, and I plan on modding my 580 with an accelero. Quietness matters a lot to me, and the 6970s are pretty loud with default fan throttling.

The only reviews showing GTX 570 and 6970 even are reviews from 2010/early 2011 that used catalyst 10.x drivers. With 11.6+, the gap has narrowed signifigantly between the GTX 580 and radeon 6970. Would you like me to go on a google spree to prove it? Ask and you shall receive. Now of course the GTX 580 is faster in a lot of games - but the difference is pretty small most of the time -- from my own testing its usually 5 fps or less. I could also post more reviews if you wish, the post I made on page 4 shows the 6970 being within 4 fps of the GTX 580 in almost all games, except a few -- that was from some german review done recently.

Aside from that, do you really need to make fanboy posts like this? This is going through a cycle where proof of nvidia being unethical is posted, then you retort with taunts talking about how much you love nvidia. We get it. You like nvidia a lot. The cheerleader crap is getting old.

$399 AR - Zotac
AMP! GeForce GTX 580

I used a 20% coupon and got it for $336 after tax and rebate. Using the coupon to get a 6970 would have been around $311 after tax and rebate - Sapphire Technology
100311-2SR AMD Radeon HD 6970

Which one would you buy with a difference of only $25? And I'm a fan of neither.

 

[BenSkywalker]

If I'm making a game, and a company calls me up and says, "Hey, we want to add some features to your game that will make it run better on our cards"-

Option 1) Provide some of my customers with a better experience at no cost to myself or my customers

Option 2) @MD W7F PWnZ jOOOO!!!!111!!!11

Hmmm, tough choice there.

In order to change gaming you need open standards especially in the PC market.

That is why IndirectY dominates the PC market. Most people on these forums are probably too young to recall, but a company that used to be around called Microsoft once tried to launch a 100% proprietary API called DirectX. Luckily, IndirectY came along and saved the day for us all

 

[Mr. President]

I remember when cheating used to be about vendors sacrificing image quality to win benchmarks. Not offering the better experience. If nVidia were inserting genuinely malicious code into other people's games then that would see them dragged to court and that no one else would work with them.

I suppose that console exclusives are a form cheating as well?

 

[RiDE]

I suppose that console exclusives are a form cheating as well?

 

[Jacky60]

I am still waiting for source code examples...unless of course you made this trhead in order to flamebait and without any evidence at all?

Is source code your prerequisite for everything. I understand the need for evidence but this seems a very high standard of proof to expect from a forum poster. Anecdotally Blackened has been providing plenty of evidence for Nvidias wrong doing, I think we can all agree they're a disreputable company.

 

[Jacky60]

$399 AR - Zotac
AMP! GeForce GTX 580

I used a 20% coupon and got it for $336 after tax and rebate. Using the coupon to get a 6970 would have been around $311 after tax and rebate - Sapphire Technology
100311-2SR AMD Radeon HD 6970

Which one would you buy with a difference of only $25? And I'm a fan of neither.

I'd get the 580, its a no brainer.

 

[Genx87]

Wow. Now let me make something clear. Whatever Nvidia does, it's for their customers and to attract more customers. They might figure, if they do more, they will come. It seems to be working. It's only going to be so long before the AMD apologists become tired of waiting for AMD to get moving. Be the first to offer AA in a title that lacks it. Inject DX11 patch with core DX11 features into a game for a better experience. Only a matter of time before people get sick of rooting for a company that does not deliver. Eventually, if nothing changes, they will fester and die off. All these accusations are building up. We are seeing them more and more. And every one of them is just an airplane towing a banner about AMD shortcomings, lets be the victim and see where it gets us, inaction attitude. So, keep it up. Keep raising the stink about how evil Nv is and how good AMD is. To me, it shows what AMD isn't doing or can't do. Maybe it's why I like Nvidia better than AMD/ATI. They are do'ers. Not whiners playing the victim card. There are only so many of those cards in the deck to be pulled before someone eventually thinks for themselves.

Sorry for the rambling. Thanks for the thread Blackened23. You drive points home like no other.

These types of threads only highlight the issue with AMD squatting on their shortcommings and leaving their end users out to dry. At what point does cheering for the underdog turn into being disgruntled the underdog wont get off its ass?

For me that happened when Core 2 Duo was released and all AMD could do was hype up a bug ridden pile of crap.

 

[SirPauly]

I think the fundamental differences are in management and believe both are very talented when it comes to engineering. I think when AMD offered they need to be more aggressive and the predator, that's the kind of mind-set to lead. Hopefully it can come to fruition.

 

[notty22]

Is source code your prerequisite for everything. I understand the need for evidence but this seems a very high standard of proof to expect from a forum poster. Anecdotally Blackened has been providing plenty of evidence for Nvidias wrong doing, I think we can all agree they're a disreputable company.

LOL, no he hasn't, and no WE don't agree. Unless you count yourself as WE.

Here is real story of Nvidia spending 2 million dollars VS the unproven conspiracy theories. You can read more about Nvidia here.
http://blogs.nvidia.com/

Supporting Student Success – One Backpack at a Time


NVIDIA Mentors On Mission To Brighten Young Lives


NVIDIA Supports Tomorrow’s Computer Graphics Professionals


It Gets Better – NVIDIA Employees Tell Their Stories

 

[SirPauly]

Aggressive and the predator, translates into that stealthy 5th core on Kal-el.

http://blogs.nvidia.com/2011/09/qua...9s-stealth-fifth-core-lets-it-save-on-energy/

 

[blackened23]

Aggressive and the predator, translates into that stealthy 5th core on Kal-el.

http://blogs.nvidia.com/2011/09/qua...9s-stealth-fifth-core-lets-it-save-on-energy/

Isn't that being released in late 2012/2013? Front line news indicate its signifigantly delayed. The quad core version will not be released until late 2013, this
is per their roadmap pictured on their website. Also, what does a smartphone/tablet chip have to do with anything?

 

[Mr. President]

I should have been clearer. I was trying to point out the ridiculousness of the argument.

My point was that when you have two architectures (whether it's ATI/nVidia or 360/PS3) and each with their own strengths and weaknesses then it's impossible to design a game with full platform parity without one system holding the other back. So, when one vendor funnels money into the project, and the other doesn't, then it's only natural that the former becomes the 'lead platform' as it's called in the console world. It's certainly favoritism but it's also warranted favoritism depending on the amount of their support.

It's not dissimilar to Microsoft's close relationship with Rockstar on the making of GTA4. Microsoft famously had much better developer relations than Sony in the early years of this generation and funneled some 20 million dollars into an exclusivity deal with Rockstar. It's easy to presume that such a deal also involved close work on the R&D front and paid off on final release because GTA4 looks better on the 360.

 

[SirPauly]

Isn't that being released in late 2012/2013? Front line news indicate its signifigantly delayed. The quad core version will not be released until late 2013, this
is per their roadmap pictured on their website. Also, what does a smartphone/tablet chip have to do with anything? Wow. Way to sidetrack the argument there.
Nvidia's PR successfully building up hype for a smart phone product to be released 2 years from now ! good stuff.

Whatever though, nvidia helps children. So as long as they support the kids, its ok if they inject malicious code into games! Makes us forget all about it.

The 5th core is innovative and surprising -- examples of aggressive and being a predator.

If they're injected malicious code into games; where are the developers speaking out against this? It's your view they are doesn't mean there is malicious code being added. What you're adding is conjecture, innuendo and conspiracy, imho, based on very weak circumstantial examples.

 

[Firestorm007]

Maybe you like Nvidia because they give you free stuff?:biggrin:.

Come on, now. It's not like Keys is creating threads like "Nvidia is Awesome and AMD Sucks." If anything, most of the time he's responds to posters asking for GPU advice or when he's debating someone. We should try and keep the personal jabs out of it. It's not constructive. I've been guilty of it in the past too. Let's just argue on the merits of the discussion at hand and agree to disagree. We all know he gets video cards for evaluation and he's a focus group member. Oh, the horror....But, seriously, it doesn't change the fact that he prefers Nvidia in any way shape or form. Let's just fight facts with facts.

 

[Idontcare]

You can defend Keys if you want, but you know there's a bit of a difference between a reviewer given hardware to review that also gets hardware from other companies (namely competitors) and someone given it specifically to post in a forum to spread propaganda for you and FUD against your competitor.

What exactly are you saying with the rest? You seem to be making some pretty serious implications. Are you talking about reviewers that get hardware from both AMD and Nvidia? Or are you saying there are AMD biased members that have not openly identified themselves as such?

The part in bold, I'm not aware of this being the purpose of the Nvidia Focus Group. To me, this part of your post reads as being an assumption on your part in regards to the purpose/intent of the focus group.

Be that as it may, what purpose/intent do you suppose exists as the motivation for seeding reviewers with free samples of hardware? And how does that purpose differ from that which you assume to be the purpose of the NV focus group?

I agree with the bolded part that he does that.

But the rest I don't think thats what he meant though?

Correct on the latter, have no idea why you would go to the extra effort involved to state the former.

I'm not aware of my having defended Keysplayr anymore so than I have endeavored to defend multitudes of other forum members who were being harassed in a disrespectful manner that reflected poorly on the stature of our community as a whole.