Why does nvidia cheat so much?

[96Firebird]

Thanks for the link, I liked the source... :awe:

 

[SirPauly]

http://www.gamemunition.com/rumors/did-nvidia-pay-crytek-to-delay-directx-11-support-for-crysis-2/

I'm still an nvidia sheep that blindly follows them no matter how unethical they are. I think i'll make some posts defending their hilariously anti consumer practices because I own their hardware.

Sadly, there are some nVidia sheep but what is so much worse, is how some sheep blindly follow speculation and rumors as fact.

 

[Phynaz]

nvidia paid crytek US 2 million to delay their DX11 port, and nvidia implemented it *themselves*

Proof?

 

[houe]

Basically what nvidia did was write code implementing AA. They only allowed this code to run on their hardware as follows:

if(NVIDIA == true)
{
//use new code nvidia created
}
else
{
//use the old cold without AA
}

The code they created would have worked just fine on AMD hardware but they figured they wrote the code so why should AMD users benefit. However, there now seems to be some type of legal agreement that keeps the company from going into the code and developing AA code for AMD GPUs. AMD had been locked out. This is a anti competitive tactic and may even be illegal - not sure. As the company producing a game I would never have sold access to my own game's code to nvidia - bad decision. On the other hand Nvidia is being pretty evil in all this too.

 

[tviceman]

If taking console ports and adding in effects such as physx or DX11 pathways for advanced graphical features consoles can't do is cheating then they're guilty as charged and I hope they continue to be "evil". Because if it wasn't for Nvidia's software engineers and TWIMTBP program, we would still be stuck on DX9 and talking about the one day havok will offload some of it's physics to the GPU.

 

[SirPauly]

Basically what nvidia did was write code implementing AA. They only allowed this code to run on their hardware as follows:

if(NVIDIA == true)
{
//use new code nvidia created
}
else
{
//use the old cold without AA
}

The code they created would have worked just fine on AMD hardware but they figured they wrote the code so why should AMD users benefit. However, there now seems to be some type of legal agreement that keeps the company from going into the code and developing AA code for AMD GPUs. AMD had been locked out. This is a anti competitive tactic and may even be illegal - not sure. As the company producing a game I would never have sold access to my own game's code to nvidia - bad decision. On the other hand Nvidia is being pretty evil in all this too.

Yeah, the goodies from the players are all in here:

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20991

 

[SirPauly]

If taking console ports and adding in effects such as physx or DX11 pathways for advanced graphical features consoles can't do is cheating then they're guilty as charged and I hope they continue to be "evil". Because if it wasn't for Nvidia's software engineers and TWIMTBP program, we would still be stuck on DX9 and talking about the one day havok will offload some of it's physics to the GPU.

imho,

It really boils down to if nVidia does something, it should also benefit AMD owners as well and for some odd reason, some may believe they're entitled based on it is the PC --- and any hint, rumor, speculation of wrong doing -- Evil nVidia. Ask AMD to do more is my thinking. Take the energy and ask more from your IHV of choice.

 

[sontin]

One can say the same thing about blindly follow AMD but the differentiation is data and investigations -- I tend to let the IHV's counter each other:

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20991

It is great to see counters on points.

Everytime i read Huddy's posting i'm laughing. Pur gold when we look back:

The positive mention of DX11 is a rarity in recent communications from NVIDIA - except perhaps in their messaging that 'DirectX 11 doesn't matter'. For example I don't remember Jensen or others mentioning tessellation (they biggest of the new hardware features) from the stage at GTC

 

[Genx87]

What special edition of the game would that be. The one where nvidia didn't exchange millions of dollars with EA to get rights to it? Because that did happen, you can easily verify it through google if you wish.

Please explain how broadly disabling AA on all non nvidia hardware is an ethical practice. Please tell me why EA would need *nvidia* to code AA. Coding AA isn't a difficult thing to do , and certainly doesn't require a graphics cards company. I find it hilarious that you're even defending that.

Furthermore, lets look at the hundreds of games with in game AA and how they were never influenced by GPU makers, but instead coded by the developers themselves. Face it, nvidia did this not for the good of the game, but just to put their hardware in a better light. Even if it wasn't ethical.

You can say what you want about AMD but they have never made malicious code to make games run WORSE on non AMD hardware, that i'm aware of. Nvidia has done this many times.

GOTY edition.

And you realize the unreal engine doesnt provide AA? For that to happen the developer is required to write the code for their engine. Nvidia did it for that developer for their hardware, AMD didnt until the GOTY edition. So if Nvidia didnt write AA for batman, AMD still wouldnt have AA. It isnt like Nvidia disabled a functioning feature on AMD hardware. They just disabled the code they wrote for their hardware on AMD hardware. AMD is free to write code for their hardware and disable it on Nvidia hardware. And they did for GOTY edition.

And of course they did it to make their hardware look better. What is the problem with that? Every company provides value adds for their product. AMD does as well...

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I always buy the best overall value card and never the latest and greatest. I watch power usage as it's important to me and I NEVER buy a card based on it's performance in one or two games. That said, I tend to like ATI/AMD cards because I've had less driver problems with them over the years.

I would like to add one other game to the discussion. Age of Conan is also a game that ATI/AMD cards are severely hampered by the way the code was written.

 

[Grooveriding]

Nvidia is just more of a scumbaggery company. It's why I'll use AMD if the choice is there for me. It's not so bad I would not buy nvidia obviously, but would rather give my money to AMD than a company that uses viral marketers in forums to misrepresent their products, makes use of some review sites with blatant bias and harms all gamers by crippling titles to look better in benchmarks.

Not a massive deal, but if a reasonable choice is there for me, I'd prefer to give my money to a company that has not tried to play me for a fool.

Not to mention nvidia's driver team has either taken up drinking or lost some key members as their drivers have gone to pot over the past four months. Crashes and buggy as all heck.

 

[Nemesis 1]

So i've been reading up on some of the shinanigans that nvidia has done on "nvidia - the way its meant to be played" games.

I can't believe the lengths nvidia has gone through to purposely hijack games to run worse on AMD hardware. I won't go into long details, but nvidia paid crytek US 2 million to delay their DX11 port, and nvidia implemented it *themselves* by applying tesselation on non visible, water, and flat objects. If you read up on this, these tactics were purposely done to hijack crysis 2 on anything that isn't nvidia hardware -- and it does not improve image quality AT ALL (on flat objects and water...and especially non visibile objects under the world -- yes they did that.)

Outright scumbaggery. They did the same with Batman: AA in 2009. This is the same company that in 2003 manipulated their drivers to disable features in 3d benchmarks to get inflated results - back then tomshardware called them out on it, and they admitted to cheating. Good to see that their cheating hasn't ended.

I can't believe they for the most part, haven't been called out on this.

So AMD wouldn't do this is this what your saying . DIRT III I was a huge ATI fan but since AMD has taken over . They are using NVs old method of hyping on hardware forums even worse than NV and Rollo. SO now I buy NV which pretty much has everyone around here shocked . Live and learn

 

[moriz]

regarding batman: arkham asylum and AA:

the game merely detects if there's an nvidia device installed and enables AA, and doesn't even do a particularly good job of it. i recently installed a GT240 as a physX only card in my 5870 based system. not only did i gain access to hardware physX, i also gained ingame AA as well. it's just MSAA as far as i can tell.

 

[Seero]

Rumor killing facts:
Batman AA supports in game AA after AMD applied their piece of the puzzle.

DX:HR only support 3D via HD3D. After many tears from 3d vision user as well as the dude who created a wrapper to make 3d vision work, the game promised to support 3D to anyone who does not use HD3D through later patches. Whether it is a foul play is one thing, whether people cry about it is another.

 

[toyota]

regarding batman: arkham asylum and AA:

the game merely detects if there's an nvidia device installed and enables AA, and doesn't even do a particularly good job of it. i recently installed a GT240 as a physX only card in my 5870 based system. not only did i gain access to hardware physX, i also gained ingame AA as well. it's just MSAA as far as i can tell.

I believe AA support for ATI was added to Batman AA through a patch a while back. I know the GOTY version has it.

 

[mosox]

The bumpgate showed Nvidia's true colors when it comes to their own customers. I can't remember a HW company that behaved this bad when they screwed up. Compare to the AMD Phenom I fiasco, or Intel Sandy Bridge faulty chipsets. Both companies acted great.

 

[notty22]

Here are some other google results for cheating.
AMD Caught Cheating with Radeon Drivers

which links to this story.
Review Websites Discover AMD Driver Reduces Image Quality

.........................................
Are ATI Radeon HD Graphics Cards Driver Cheating?

Important note if you are testing the following applications:

Dawn of War 2 Empire Total War
Need for Speed: Shift
Oblivion
Serious Sam II
Far Cry 1

AMD has admitted that performance optimizations in their driver alters image quality in the above applications. The specific change involves demoting FP16 render targets to R11G11B10 render targets which are half the size and less accurate. The image quality change is subtle, but it alters the workload for benchmarking purposes. The correct way to benchmark these applications is to disable Catalyst AI in AMD's control panel. Please contact your local AMD PR representative if you have any doubts on the above issue.

NVIDIA's official driver optimization's policy is to never introduce a performance optimization via .exe detection that alters the application's image quality, however subtle the difference. This is also the policy of FutureMark regarding legitimate driver optimizations.

..............................
Different Brand Video Cards Change What You See in Games

 

[amenx]

So i've been reading up on some of the shinanigans that nvidia has done on "nvidia - the way its meant to be played" games.

I can't believe the lengths nvidia has gone through to purposely hijack games to run worse on AMD hardware. I won't go into long details, but nvidia paid crytek US 2 million to delay their DX11 port, and nvidia implemented it *themselves* by applying tesselation on non visible, water, and flat objects. If you read up on this, these tactics were purposely done to hijack crysis 2 on anything that isn't nvidia hardware -- and it does not improve image quality AT ALL (on flat objects and water...and especially non visibile objects under the world -- yes they did that.)

Outright scumbaggery. They did the same with Batman: AA in 2009. This is the same company that in 2003 manipulated their drivers to disable features in 3d benchmarks to get inflated results - back then tomshardware called them out on it, and they admitted to cheating. Good to see that their cheating hasn't ended.

I can't believe they for the most part, haven't been called out on this.

So when are you going to get rid of that Intel chip in your sig?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...es-intel-used-unfair-and-deceptive-practices/

 

[Grooveriding]

The bumpgate showed Nvidia's true colors when it comes to their own customers. I can't remember a HW company that behaved this bad when they screwed up. Compare to the AMD Phenom I fiasco, or Intel Sandy Bridge faulty chipsets. Both companies acted great.

Yes that was abysmal. They had to lose a lawsuit to fess up and cover their customer's losses.

They never took onus on for the drivers they released that caused cards to burn up either. End-users had to contact their vendor and hope they could get an RMA.

 

[greenhawk]

Sure both are crap in how they deal with things. Both suck in terms of paying software developers to hinder the compertition.

BUT the problem is, their are no other options. If you want to game, you need a gaming card, and using intel graphics is not a option. So in the end you have to keep giving nVidia/AMD(ATI) money.

At least there are two GPU companies, if it falls to one you can expect the customer to get stuffed over even more.

 

[greenhawk]

Compare to the AMD Phenom I fiasco, or Intel Sandy Bridge faulty chipsets. Both companies acted great.

lets not forget the intel floating point bug in the pentium range. Intel just said, IIRC, (after denieing the issue) that they will replace any faulty chip IF "you can prove it is effecting your work".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug

 

[Keysplayr]

A new day, a new campaign. Sheesh, I say you should all just buy Nvidia cards and enjoy the benefits of having them instead of complaining about them. THEN you'll see AMD get off their butts and get moving and actually might do things better than NV.
Hey, it's just a suggestion.

 

[soccerballtux]

I don't know of any specific instance where ATI/AMD has specifically applied code to a game to make it run worse on nvidia hardware. DX:HR supports AMD features but does NOT have code to hijack it on nvidia hardware. It runs well on both platforms.

I could be wrong, but AMD seems much more ethical than nvidia. Nvidia seems to have a long history of scumbag practices from what i've been reading....almost makes me want to cancel my GTX 580 order for my 2nd PC.

Please explain to me why nvidia paid EA to disable in game AA in batman:AA for everything *except* nvidia hardware? This forces ATI users to use AA through drivers which is lower performance than in game AA. Driver AA applies AA to everything, while in game AA applies it where it is needed. There is no excuse for anti consumer practices like this.

yea they don't have the funding to spend time doing stuff like that. Nvidia does.

 

[SirPauly]

I did like what the CEO offered about being more aggressive and to be the predator.

 

[badb0y]

Only thing scumbag about nVidia imo was when they screwed around with Batman AA. That ticked me off because if you change the GPU ID from AMD cards to nVidia cards the AA config worked fine.