Why do weak people always turn to God?

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: flexy
Nevertheless..the morality discussion is very interesting. It would, of course, also lead to the question where the "feel" for "wrong or right" comes.....and religious people would certainly argue "from God"

I think that "feeling" for right or wrong comes from our evolutionary heritage (i.e., our genetics). Even monkeys like chimps have that "feeling" for social rights and wrongs. It's not like its a uniquely human thing.

 

[BigJ]

One point I have to make is, I don't think most of the atheists in this thread insulting Christians for praying know what praying really is. It is not simply turning to God for help everytime your chips are down, or everytime you catch a bad break. For me, it's simply expressing yourself to God, asking for His blessing in your endeavors, and to give strength and courage to you in your time of need if He sees fit. If He does or doesn't you'll never know, and simply praying will not get anything done. It's up to the individual using their own free will that was God-given to go out there and make things happen. In doing this we do not use good as a crutch, but as you might use as a close-friend.

So now is a person also weak for turning to another in society for help in a situation, or turning to them for understanding, or for just asking for someone to be there for them?

Also, I'm a non-denominational Christian, but I respect other peoples religions. Like Sully said, with so many belief systems out there, who knows if I chose the correct one. Since I believe in a merciful God, then if my religion was partially incorrect in some of it's teachings I've adapted, I'd expect the same mercy that someone else should receive if it turns out my religion truly is the correct one in it's teachings.

If you are atheist, fine by me. As long as you lead a good life, and hold yourself to a higher moral principle that good, honest people should have, there really is no problem with it. God gave you the choice to not believe in Him, and you made that choice. You're still one of His children, and as long as you contribute to this world, I see no reason why you should not have a good afterlife also.

 

[Siva]

I have so much I'd like to expess, but with such a heated topic its very hard to find the right words.

I think faith is a wonderful thing. It grounds people, provides a community and offers order to an otherwise senseless and chaotic world. But, everyone's faith is different. I don't think a single person can live without having some kind of faith. I believe in the natural world, science. When I die, that's the end, but the world keeps turning, my faith isn't based on getting into some kind of Heaven, I'm not afraid of death or the end of my existence altogether.

I rationalize the world, how up is up and down is down based on what I have learned about it. How did people justify gravity before they knew what gravity was? Through God. The more I've learned, the less I believed in God, to the point that all I can say is maybe there is some sort of creator who made that spark that started it all, then just stood back and watched.

I feel kind of bad saying it, but I think faith is so prevalent because a lot of people haven't been exposed to the kind of education I have been offered. I was raised as a Christian, and I was left to make my own decisions once I went to college. I have taken science course, I've taken religion courses, I'm very well versed in the Bible and many different ways to interpert it. I just can't believe in it. Its just words, its just a story, its not research, there's no proof. I can do experiments, I can look for common traits and I can study DNA to prove evolution. I can't see Jesus, I've never heard of a miracle or experienced any sort of connection with God from prayer. Its just an old way of rationalizing what we can't understand.

Is it fair to die of leporsy? Before people understood disease, it was punishment God. Is it fair for the Jews to be killed by the Romans for nothing but their religion? No, which is why they created an afterlife, to justify what seems like cruelty by God. There was no afterlife, no real eschatology to the Jewish religion until the Roman occupation of Isreal. Its not in the Torah, its an afterthought by theologists who tried to rationalize an irrational god.

If God really loved you, why would you have to suffer at all in this life? Do you allow your loved ones to suffer when you can prevent it? It just doesn't add up.

That said.... I don't know that I'm right, I have my beliefs and I will never discriminate or judge anyone based on theirs. I could be wrong, its just the way I see things. I don't even know if I made any sense. Anyway, I will never tell someone he/she is wrong, I could just be missing something great that everyone else gets. I just wish religion didn't polarize people and intrude so much on society and life in the US. It should be personal and private, my theology or lack there of doesn't show up in schools, courtrooms, politics, or other supposedly unbiased institutions.

Basically the spread of religion throughout society and the "church" forcing its views, based on absolutely nonbiblical ideas (like abortion is wrong) is what I dislike. Religion, faith, are wonderful things, right or wrong, if they provide stability and comfort. If it can make one happy and comfortable in this life, then I don't see how it can be bad. If it makes me or others unhappy at the same time, that's when a problem arises.

 

[mobobuff]

A great post to end this thread on ^^^^^

 

[So]

Originally posted by: BigJ
One point I have to make is, I don't think most of the atheists in this thread insulting Christians for praying know what praying really is. It is not simply turning to God for help everytime your chips are down, or everytime you catch a bad break. For me, it's simply expressing yourself to God, asking for His blessing in your endeavors, and to give strength and courage to you in your time of need if He sees fit. If He does or doesn't you'll never know, and simply praying will not get anything done. It's up to the individual using their own free will that was God-given to go out there and make things happen. In doing this we do not use good as a crutch, but as you might use as a close-friend.

So now is a person also weak for turning to another in society for help in a situation, or turning to them for understanding, or for just asking for someone to be there for them?

Also, I'm a non-denominational Christian, but I respect other peoples religions. Like Sully said, with so many belief systems out there, who knows if I chose the correct one. Since I believe in a merciful God, then if my religion was partially incorrect in some of it's teachings I've adapted, I'd expect the same mercy that someone else should receive if it turns out my religion truly is the correct one in it's teachings.

If you are atheist, fine by me. As long as you lead a good life, and hold yourself to a higher moral principle that good, honest people should have, there really is no problem with it. God gave you the choice to not believe in Him, and you made that choice. You're still one of His children, and as long as you contribute to this world, I see no reason why you should not have a good afterlife also.

That a very nice sentiment until you start implying that since god definitely exists, he will forgive you for your crime of not believeing. Do you see where this might piss some people off?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: BigJ
One point I have to make is, I don't think most of the atheists in this thread insulting Christians for praying know what praying really is. It is not simply turning to God for help everytime your chips are down, or everytime you catch a bad break. For me, it's simply expressing yourself to God, asking for His blessing in your endeavors, and to give strength and courage to you in your time of need if He sees fit. If He does or doesn't you'll never know, and simply praying will not get anything done. It's up to the individual using their own free will that was God-given to go out there and make things happen. In doing this we do not use good as a crutch, but as you might use as a close-friend.

So now is a person also weak for turning to another in society for help in a situation, or turning to them for understanding, or for just asking for someone to be there for them?

Also, I'm a non-denominational Christian, but I respect other peoples religions. Like Sully said, with so many belief systems out there, who knows if I chose the correct one. Since I believe in a merciful God, then if my religion was partially incorrect in some of it's teachings I've adapted, I'd expect the same mercy that someone else should receive if it turns out my religion truly is the correct one in it's teachings.

If you are atheist, fine by me. As long as you lead a good life, and hold yourself to a higher moral principle that good, honest people should have, there really is no problem with it. God gave you the choice to not believe in Him, and you made that choice. You're still one of His children, and as long as you contribute to this world, I see no reason why you should not have a good afterlife also.

That a very nice sentiment until you start implying that since god definitely exists, he will forgive you for your crime of not believeing. Do you see where this might piss some people off?

No more than an Atheist implying God definitely does not exist. If people just accept what others believe, whether it be right or wrong, things shouldn't be an issue unless you make them an issue. I accept that some people simply believe that God does not exist. If people know I accept that, then I don't see how they would get pissed off at me thinking that regardless of believing or not, if you live a good life, then the afterlife will be fine.

I don't go up to Atheists and tell them "Oh its alright you don't believe in God, you're going to Heaven anyway if you lead a good life." If an atheist asks me if I think non-believers will be forgiven, then sure I'll explain to them my beliefs.

 

[Lizardman]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
/breaks out the ice chest and lawn chairs

breaks out the baseball bat and swings at your head.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: Megatomic
What I want to know is why are "men" today so afraid of and negative towards God?

because the most crimes, atrocities and unjust things, intolerance, closed mindedness and fanatism MOSTLY is done by people who CLAIM/THINK that they're backed by "God"

And what about Mother Teresa? Billy Graham? The countless missionaries in the field doing humanitarian work? The peaceful Muslims who abhor the violence of the radicals?

In this modern world you only hear about what the religious do when it's atrocious, when it furthers the cause of those who oppose religion and want to stamp out the word God from our vocabulary.

Your arguement is invalid and without any merit.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I'm probably more agnostic than anything, and I try to be sensitive to other's belief systems.

Basically I agree with something my uncle told me once when I expressed doubts to him, and what he suggested was "How can a group of people that get together & try to do the right thing be all bad?"

Waves @ MichaelD

You know, living where you do, you could find a nice non-denominational church & get laid right?

IIRC, church is one of the major ways to hook up with women.

Of course, you can always use hand puppets.

The Puppet Method:

* First, you will need a hand puppet. You can buy them at your major toy stores such as Toys R Us.
* Bring your hand puppet with you to a nightclub where there are lots of single ladies.
* When you see a girl that you're attracted to, approach her and tap her on the shoulder lightly with your puppet and when she turns around raise your hand puppet towards her face and say something like this with your puppet, "Hi beautiful, would you like to dance with me?" Move your puppet up and down with your hand as you are saying your script just as if the puppet was really talking. And be sure to talk in a real silly voice.
* What happens next? She's going to die laughing and think that you are so funny. Plus, you will make a very favorable impression on her because women love a guy with a sense of humor. And, of course, she will most likely dance with you.

 

[Davegod75]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Doesn't anyone have any backbone anymore? It just seems that when faced with a problem; rent is due, drug addiction, marital problems...many people turn to "God" to help them solve all their problems.

Why doesn't the average Joe see that "God" is just an imaginary CRUTCH? If you want to quit drinking, only YOU CAN MAKE YOU QUIT DRINKING. If you want to stop beating your dog, ONLY YOU CAN MAKE YOU STOP BEATING THE DOG.

God won't save your marriage, pay the bills or wash your car. God also WILL NOT "give you the strength" to do any of the above.

If you're a weak person, admit you're weak and learn to be strong on your own. Leave The Good Book where it belongs; gathering dust in a seedy motel nightstand drawer.

wow..i all can say is wow. I'll say a prayer for you,

 

[Megatomic]

And another thing: there is a monumental difference between a spiritual Christian/Muslim/Jew and a religious Christian/Muslim/Jew. It is my perception that those of you angry with members of those (and other) organized religions are only familiar with the religious and not the spiritual.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Megatomic
And what about Mother Teresa?

Mother Teresa is evil, an utter creep. Google on this woman, read up on her shady practices, you will be shocked.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Megatomic
And what about Mother Teresa?

Mother Teresa is evil, an utter creep. Google on this woman, read up on her shady practices, you will be shocked.

Well, if you're not going to be serious I see no need to even continue with this thread. :|

 

[mchammer187]

for someone who preaches self sufficience you sure whine alot

 

[slightlyhuman]

I'm not even gonna read all the posts in this thread. MichaelD, I had respect for you up until this thread. You get pissed about the people posting religous threads but you do it too? You're acting like a child and you're over the age of 20 AFAIK. People have opinions, whether it be in religion or politics. STFU up about it and accept it and stop acting like a preschooler about it please?

I am religous, no I may not act like it all the time but I don't go off and badger people with my religion that don't want to hear it. Yes, there are some people who do that and it can get irritating but when you b1tch about that all the time but yet drop down and do the same thing, what does that solve?

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: Jero

Originally posted by: MichaelD

Originally posted by: LtPage1
youre an idiot. some people find great peace in religion. if its not for you, stfu and leave us alone. you dont have to talk about it.

Some people find great peace in being self-sufficient. If that's not for you STFU and leave us alone. You don't need to talk about it.

Sounds great the other way too, doesn't it.

MichaelD, if only you knew how much God has affected my life...

just because you have totally shut him out of your life does not mean he doesn't exist....

Just because you believe in him doesn't mean he does exist either. *I'm just making a point, not trying to put in my beliefs.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Doesn't anyone have any backbone anymore? It just seems that when faced with a problem; rent is due, drug addiction, marital problems...many people turn to "God" to help them solve all their problems.

Why doesn't the average Joe see that "God" is just an imaginary CRUTCH? If you want to quit drinking, only YOU CAN MAKE YOU QUIT DRINKING. If you want to stop beating your dog, ONLY YOU CAN MAKE YOU STOP BEATING THE DOG.

God won't save your marriage, pay the bills or wash your car. God also WILL NOT "give you the strength" to do any of the above.

If you're a weak person, admit you're weak and learn to be strong on your own. Leave The Good Book where it belongs; gathering dust in a seedy motel nightstand drawer.

People that are brainwashed, NEVER see themselves as being brainwashed. It's VERY hard to break out of, and very few actually do.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Doesn't anyone have any backbone anymore? It just seems that when faced with a problem; rent is due, drug addiction, marital problems...many people turn to "God" to help them solve all their problems.

Why doesn't the average Joe see that "God" is just an imaginary CRUTCH? If you want to quit drinking, only YOU CAN MAKE YOU QUIT DRINKING. If you want to stop beating your dog, ONLY YOU CAN MAKE YOU STOP BEATING THE DOG.

God won't save your marriage, pay the bills or wash your car. God also WILL NOT "give you the strength" to do any of the above.

If you're a weak person, admit you're weak and learn to be strong on your own. Leave The Good Book where it belongs; gathering dust in a seedy motel nightstand drawer.

People that are brainwashed, NEVER see themselves as being brainwashed. It's VERY hard to break out of, and very few actual do.

That's so true. This arguement can be used by both sides.

 

[rasholianmon]

How to Cope when Tragedy Strikes

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Doesn't anyone have any backbone anymore? It just seems that when faced with a problem; rent is due, drug addiction, marital problems...many people turn to "God" to help them solve all their problems.

Why doesn't the average Joe see that "God" is just an imaginary CRUTCH? If you want to quit drinking, only YOU CAN MAKE YOU QUIT DRINKING. If you want to stop beating your dog, ONLY YOU CAN MAKE YOU STOP BEATING THE DOG.

God won't save your marriage, pay the bills or wash your car. God also WILL NOT "give you the strength" to do any of the above.

If you're a weak person, admit you're weak and learn to be strong on your own. Leave The Good Book where it belongs; gathering dust in a seedy motel nightstand drawer.

People that are brainwashed, NEVER see themselves as being brainwashed. It's VERY hard to break out of, and very few actually do.

:roll: Everyone is brainwashed, just to ideas different from yours.

 

[rasholianmon]

why do they call it "brainwashed", but when people are apt to listen to others, they're considered "open-minded" or "clear-headed"...??

God does wash your car, fools... ever heard of rain? and where do you think water comes from?

 

[slightlyhuman]

Originally posted by: rasholianmon
why do they call it "brainwashed", but when people are apt to listen to others, they're considered "open-minded" or "clear-headed"...??

God does wash your car, fools... ever heard of rain? and where do you think water comes from?

out of the 158 posts you have contributed to this forum, i think a third of them has lowered my intelligence for reading them

 

[Ausm]

Religion was created to explain the unexplainable in a time where there was little scientific knowledge.

Most religious people I know are extremely paranoid and gullible.

Ausm

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Megatomic
Long before man "learned to rely on himself" he looked to God for aid. I don't see where the modern self-reliant man is better off than his forebears.

Religion has not civilized man, man has civilized religion.
-Robert Green Ingersoll

 

[rasholianmon]

Originally posted by: Hardcore

Originally posted by: Megatomic
Long before man "learned to rely on himself" he looked to God for aid. I don't see where the modern self-reliant man is better off than his forebears.

Religion has not civilized man, man has civilized religion.
-Robert Green Ingersoll

stupid quotes...
see, I can do them too...


"In Soviet Russia, you don't drive car, car drive you!"

I think Jehovah God has better material than that. men are imperfect and limited in their thinking, this is undeniable.