Why do weak people always turn to God?

[CaptainGoodnight]

Originally posted by: rasholianmon

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: rasholianmon

Originally posted by: Jero

Originally posted by: Reck
religion is just a form of social control.

I have to disagree with that.

I have to admit that there are a LOT of christians out there who follow God blindly

Why blindly? Because they have been taught/told what to believe...but they have haven't quite found God. They just go through the motions. Some do find GOD though.

Then there are those who are not blind and believe in GOD because they WANT TO. They seem to be the folks who know how to pray the best and realize how God affects their lives.

I was blindly following GOD till a friend had a fun time destroying the foundation I had of my faith.

I actually did not go to church very often.

Then eventually I found GOD. Ever since then, been a very active Church goer. Not going because it's something I "have" to do (like the first 20 years of my childhood) but because i WANT to.

Does this make any sense?

The Churches and their status

As a Catholic, I have always found the Necessarily's Witness to be a strange bunch. Catholics believe that people are only saved by the "Grace of God". Going out and converting people won't necessarily save them.

how do you explain the Spanish inquisition?

and Witnesses don't convert people. people make their own choice to embrace the truth. Witnesses preach the good news, but if a person doesn't want to listen, they will shake the dust of their feet and move on to the next door.

has a witness ever broken into your house? have witnesses ever commandeered any television stations with 24 hour prayer hotline networks? do witnesses invite politicians over to their church along with CNN for the cheap pub?

trust you me, there are far worse groups and organizations than Jehovah's people.

Although the Inquisition originally began to purify the nation from heretics, it came to have more materialistic, racial, and political motives, instead of just purification. While the Castilian Isabella was a devout Catholic, the Aragonese Ferdinand was not above using religion as a means of controlling his people. He wanted the Jewish and Muslim religions wiped out in his domains, and the Inquisition was his method for achieving that. Many historians believe the Spanish Inquisition was instituted as a way of weakening Ferdinand's primary political opposition at home.

BTW, I wasn't taking a shot at Jehovah's Witness. I just don't understand their verison of salvation.

 

[rasholianmon]

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: rasholianmon

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: rasholianmon

Originally posted by: Jero

Originally posted by: Reck
religion is just a form of social control.

I have to disagree with that.

I have to admit that there are a LOT of christians out there who follow God blindly

Why blindly? Because they have been taught/told what to believe...but they have haven't quite found God. They just go through the motions. Some do find GOD though.

Then there are those who are not blind and believe in GOD because they WANT TO. They seem to be the folks who know how to pray the best and realize how God affects their lives.

I was blindly following GOD till a friend had a fun time destroying the foundation I had of my faith.

I actually did not go to church very often.

Then eventually I found GOD. Ever since then, been a very active Church goer. Not going because it's something I "have" to do (like the first 20 years of my childhood) but because i WANT to.

Does this make any sense?

The Churches and their status

As a Catholic, I have always found the Necessarily's Witness to be a strange bunch. Catholics believe that people are only saved by the "Grace of God". Going out and converting people won't necessarily save them.

how do you explain the Spanish inquisition?

and Witnesses don't convert people. people make their own choice to embrace the truth. Witnesses preach the good news, but if a person doesn't want to listen, they will shake the dust of their feet and move on to the next door.

has a witness ever broken into your house? have witnesses ever commandeered any television stations with 24 hour prayer hotline networks? do witnesses invite politicians over to their church along with CNN for the cheap pub?

trust you me, there are far worse groups and organizations than Jehovah's people.

Although the Inquisition originally began to purify the nation from heretics, it came to have more materialistic, racial, and political motives, instead of just purification.

BTW, I wasn't taking a shot at Jehovah's Witness. I just don't understand their verison of salvation.

what exactly is it that causes a barrier to your understanding? I'm interested.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Oh great black sky...please ease my suffering and pain.

I beg of thee black sky...please answer my prayers.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Originally posted by: rasholianmon

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: rasholianmon

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: rasholianmon

Originally posted by: Jero

Originally posted by: Reck
religion is just a form of social control.

I have to disagree with that.

I have to admit that there are a LOT of christians out there who follow God blindly

Why blindly? Because they have been taught/told what to believe...but they have haven't quite found God. They just go through the motions. Some do find GOD though.

Then there are those who are not blind and believe in GOD because they WANT TO. They seem to be the folks who know how to pray the best and realize how God affects their lives.

I was blindly following GOD till a friend had a fun time destroying the foundation I had of my faith.

I actually did not go to church very often.

Then eventually I found GOD. Ever since then, been a very active Church goer. Not going because it's something I "have" to do (like the first 20 years of my childhood) but because i WANT to.

Does this make any sense?

The Churches and their status

As a Catholic, I have always found the Necessarily's Witness to be a strange bunch. Catholics believe that people are only saved by the "Grace of God". Going out and converting people won't necessarily save them.

how do you explain the Spanish inquisition?

and Witnesses don't convert people. people make their own choice to embrace the truth. Witnesses preach the good news, but if a person doesn't want to listen, they will shake the dust of their feet and move on to the next door.

has a witness ever broken into your house? have witnesses ever commandeered any television stations with 24 hour prayer hotline networks? do witnesses invite politicians over to their church along with CNN for the cheap pub?

trust you me, there are far worse groups and organizations than Jehovah's people.

Although the Inquisition originally began to purify the nation from heretics, it came to have more materialistic, racial, and political motives, instead of just purification.

BTW, I wasn't taking a shot at Jehovah's Witness. I just don't understand their verison of salvation.

what exactly is it that causes a barrier to your understanding? I'm interested.

This is my understanding of it: Witnesses reject the doctrine of universal salvation. They teach that salvation requires faith in Jesus Christ. They believe that salvation is a free gift from God, and that Christian works are evidence of their genuine faith. Indeed, "faith without works is dead" (James 2:24). They reject the concept "once saved, always saved," believing that salvation will be granted to those who endure faithfully until the end.

I believe it begins with the grace of God which touches a sinner's heart, and calls him to repentance. This grace cannot be merited; it proceeds solely from the love and mercy of God. Man may receive or reject this inspiration of God, he may turn to God or remain in sin. Grace does not constrain man's free will.

It's more complicated then that however...

 

[maziwanka]

i understand with the OP is saying...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: DougK62
I'm sure you realize then that your definitions are WAY out there. If you're going to change what words mean then it'd be helpful to say that at the beginning.

Are you saying that because I love my mom that means I believe in the Christian god?

I don't believe that it is I who has changed any definitions. In my experience, the more basic the actual solution to an important problem, the more that humans will seek to ignore the actual basic solution and create false complicated solutions.

And no, I wasn't saying that because you love your mom means that you believe in the Christian God. Although you might call that a good start. At least you love someone. That's more than a lot of folks.



JackBurton, you have never once to my knowledge demonstrated either intellect or courage on this board. And you completely, absolutely, and grossly misunderstood my entire post, or else you would not have gone on with your tangent about "rules" and their enforcement that I think everyone here on ATOT knows that I do not believe in. And if you believe that those rules and their enforcement are any way a part of the teachings of Jesus, then I know without question that you have never read the Bible. Clearly, you took offense and dropped all pretense of logic.

rasholianmon, you misunderstood as well (but not as badly or in the same fashion). What did Jehovah or The Lord (depending on translation) actually mean in ancient Hebrew? And I never said that God was not a separate entity in addition to existing in part inside every being. And if the physical nature of that being died, why would the spiritual part of God that existed inside them die as well? Or do you not believe in life after death? Do you not believe that He created us and gave us life?

Originally posted by: Reck
religion is just a form of social control.

Religion, yes. Although I doubt any society could exist for very long without some form of control.

But the OP was not attacking religion. He was attacking individual faith -- two VERY different things.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Topic Title: Why do weak people always turn to God?
Topic Summary: Seems that in times of need...man looks to the skies...

Just ask the 50.9% of the Country that voted W in back in November, that's a lot of people to get an answer from.

Yeah..because none of the kerry voters believe in God...surely they are all athiests or agnostics. :roll:

 

[rasholianmon]

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
This is my understanding of it: Witnesses reject the doctrine of universal salvation. They teach that salvation requires faith in Jesus Christ. They believe that salvation is a free gift from God, and that Christian works are evidence of their genuine faith. Indeed, "faith without works is dead" (James 2:24). They reject the concept "once saved, always saved," believing that salvation will be granted to those who endure faithfully until the end.

I believe it begins with the grace of God which touches a sinner's heart, and calls him to repentance. This grace cannot be merited; it proceeds solely from the love and mercy of God. Man may receive or reject this inspiration of God, he may turn to God or remain in sin. Grace does not constrain man's free will.

all of what you said is true, but I believe the disconnect is that you are equating works only with salvation, which is not what the witnesses preach. yes, works are necessary, and it doesn't have to be door to door, but praise with the fruitage of the lips-- after all, as the Ethiopian eunuch said, how will I learn without someone to teach me? part of the only commandment Jesus gave to obey was to love your neighbor as you love yourself, which would mean that if we were to find this truth that can bring everlasting life and we hold it back from others, how much neighborly love do we actually have? you can give to the united way and walk for cancer and all that, but in the end, this system will be destroyed. in order for one to be remembered by God in the new system, one needs to have faith.

Now, those who haven't endured to the end of this system, but have endured to the end of their lives can still be remembered by Jehovah God. and it's not only those who will be resurrected in the new system. others will too, but they are going to need to be taught by the faithful ones in order to survive in the new system (think of the babies that have died before/during/just after birth, native americans of older civilizations, etc.). those who have blatantly sinned against Jehovah or the holy spirit will not be resurrected. but who goes where, only Jehovah knows. Grace is only one quality of God, but in Jehovah's organization, they recognize God for his qualities of Power, Justice, Wisdom, and Love.

oh yeah, and as for the salvation thing, it's true that JW's believe that not everyone goes to heaven, only a ruling class of 144,000. now where does anyone else that has endured to the end end up? that's an answer for another time.

 

[rasholianmon]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Topic Title: Why do weak people always turn to God?
Topic Summary: Seems that in times of need...man looks to the skies...

Just ask the 50.9% of the Country that voted W in back in November, that's a lot of people to get an answer from.

Yeah..because none of the kerry voters believe in God...surely they are all athiests or agnostics. :roll:

God doesn't choose political sides, and no true Christian would either...

Jesus said

"Do not put your trust in nobles or in the son of earthling man..."

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: rasholianmon

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Topic Title: Why do weak people always turn to God?
Topic Summary: Seems that in times of need...man looks to the skies...

Just ask the 50.9% of the Country that voted W in back in November, that's a lot of people to get an answer from.

Yeah..because none of the kerry voters believe in God...surely they are all athiests or agnostics. :roll:

God doesn't choose political sides, and no true Christian would either...

Jesus said

"Do not put your trust in nobles or in the son of earthling man..."

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Oh great black sky...please ease my suffering and pain.

I beg of thee black sky...please answer my prayers.

Inside your mockery, I'm pretty sure your argument is that people who pray are simply talking to themselves. And my question to that is, does it matter? Psychologists have determined that self-affirmation is positive to people's lives, and that people are only capable of creating into reality that which they had already imagined.

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
This is my understanding of it: Witnesses reject the doctrine of universal salvation. They teach that salvation requires faith in Jesus Christ. They believe that salvation is a free gift from God, and that Christian works are evidence of their genuine faith. Indeed, "faith without works is dead" (James 2:24). They reject the concept "once saved, always saved," believing that salvation will be granted to those who endure faithfully until the end.

I believe it begins with the grace of God which touches a sinner's heart, and calls him to repentance. This grace cannot be merited; it proceeds solely from the love and mercy of God. Man may receive or reject this inspiration of God, he may turn to God or remain in sin. Grace does not constrain man's free will.

It's more complicated then that however...

Yes, it is. In my belief, whenever the words of Paul conflict with those of Christ, I take the words of Christ. While I do not believe in the Witnesses, I'll take the beliefs in your first paragraph over the second paragraph any day and forever. "Born again" is (IMO) bullsh!t, and it most certainly is possible to fall from grace.
You (like many) misunderstand Ephesians 2:8-9 (which you referring to and eventually always comes up in these discussions), which says:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is a free gift from God, acquired through faith, and if you have faith, then your faith will lead you to works. Grace, faith, works -- they are all 3 different aspects of the exact same thing: love of God, self, and neighbor.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: rasholianmon

Originally posted by: Ausm
Kinda of. I have a brother who bang a billygoat if that is what his pastor would tell him to do. I prefer to use my brain and think for myself.

Ausm

I'd hope you would. banging billygoats doesn't sound like much fun, I'm sure your brother is not too pleased with that accusation.

that being said, give the Bible a consideration, would you?

Sorry the Bible doesn't mean shat to me....

Here are my Questions.

Answer these questions for me....

1)If God is all knowing and Benevolent why did he allow millions of people to goto to Hell before Jesus was sent to be our "Savior"

2)How Do you explain dinosaurs existence?

3) If we are all "God's Children" Then why are people of different faith then yours, and also gay people discriminated agaisnt? Doesn't this make you a biggot and a hypocrite? What makes you better then anyone else?

Please enlighten me

Ausm

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: DougK62
JackBurton, you have never once to my knowledge demonstrated either intellect or courage on this board. And you completely, absolutely, and grossly misunderstood my entire post, or else you would not have gone on with your tangent about "rules" and their enforcement that I think everyone here on ATOT knows that I do not believe in. And if you believe that those rules and their enforcement are any way a part of the teachings of Jesus, then I know without question that you have never read the Bible. Clearly, you took offense and dropped all pretense of logic.

Vic, the first sentence was directed toward you personally. The statement after that was directed toward Christians as a whole. As far as reading the Bible, when I was younger I spent 11yrs reading and studying it. I now spend quite a bit of time reading it, but for a different reason.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Oh great black sky...please ease my suffering and pain.

I beg of thee black sky...please answer my prayers.

Inside your mockery, I'm pretty sure your argument is that people who pray are simply talking to themselves. And my question to that is, does it matter? Psychologists have determined that self-affirmation is positive to people's lives, and that people are only capable of creating into reality that which they had already imagined.

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
This is my understanding of it: Witnesses reject the doctrine of universal salvation. They teach that salvation requires faith in Jesus Christ. They believe that salvation is a free gift from God, and that Christian works are evidence of their genuine faith. Indeed, "faith without works is dead" (James 2:24). They reject the concept "once saved, always saved," believing that salvation will be granted to those who endure faithfully until the end.

I believe it begins with the grace of God which touches a sinner's heart, and calls him to repentance. This grace cannot be merited; it proceeds solely from the love and mercy of God. Man may receive or reject this inspiration of God, he may turn to God or remain in sin. Grace does not constrain man's free will.

It's more complicated then that however...

Yes, it is. In my belief, whenever the words of Paul conflict with those of Christ, I take the words of Christ. While I do not believe in the Witnesses, I'll take the beliefs in your first paragraph over the second paragraph any day and forever. "Born again" is (IMO) bullsh!t, and it most certainly is possible to fall from grace.
You (like many) misunderstand Ephesians 2:8-9 (which you referring to and eventually always comes up in these discussions), which says:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is a free gift from God, acquired through faith, and if you have faith, then your faith will lead you to works. Grace, faith, works -- they are all 3 different aspects of the exact same thing: love of God, self, and neighbor.

"Are you saved?" asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: "As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5?8), but I?m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9?10, 1 Cor. 3:12?15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11?13)."

 

[MySoS]

This website is a great site to learn more about Xtianity and the bible. It is a great resource.

A skeptics annotated bible

This site also has some good information. Evil Bible

These sites basically expose Xtians, Islam, Judaism for what they are.

There are way to many Xtians, Muslims, and Jews in this world.

 

[dawks]

If god is supposed to 'control' most events and, protect and help people, why did he do what he did in South Asia? Where his is contributions to the cleanup? If Bill Gates can hand over $3mill, Im sure God can chip in...

Why is it that my next door neighbor, who went to church every Sunday, went to a catholic school, praied everyday, and read the bible regularly, and then crashed into a light post and died.. "It was his time. God wanted him"


I dont see how people can put so much belief in to something that they've never seen, never heard, cannot prove exists, and cannot be proven to exist.

We can show why volcanoes erupt, why cancer kills people, why there is weightlessness in space, how earthquakes work, why filiments get warm and emit light when a current is applied, and design highly advanced circuitry that can carry text/audio/video thousands of miles in seconds, simply with electricity, but there is no way of proving that God exists, no matter what we do. There is absolutly no evidence that the 'person' that 'created' and 'controls' everything is a reality.

Money is not the root of all evils, Religion is. How many wars has Religion played a key part in?

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
And you can not use that same arguement with most Atheists, because more than likely they were religious at one point in their lives. So they actually can see both perspectives. I sure as hell can. And I can now see religion in its true form, nothing but a huge lie put in place to control and confort the weak minded. Nothing more.

And I have the exact opposite history. I started off atheist and tried to "convert" my wife who was a Christian with nothing but blind faith. Now I am a non-denominational Christian with far more than just blind faith.

And I defy you to point out how you are superior to me mentally (seeing as I have a weak mind and all).

 

[marcello]

This song randomly came up on my playlist as I was reading this thread and I thought I should post the lyrics. I believe it was a sign, from the winamp god...

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: dawks
Money is not the root of all evils, Religion is. How many wars has Religion played a key part in?

Money, love, politics, and religion have all spawned war. It's all about passion and what gets Mans' mind and heart fired up enough to make him fight.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Originally posted by: dawks
If god is supposed to 'control' most events and, protect and help people, why did he do what he did in South Asia? Where his is contributions to the cleanup? If Bill Gates can hand over $3mill, Im sure God can chip in...

Why is it that my next door neighbor, who went to church every Sunday, went to a catholic school, praied everyday, and read the bible regularly, and then crashed into a light post and died.. "It was his time. God wanted him"


I dont see how people can put so much belief in to something that they've never seen, never heard, cannot prove exists, and cannot be proven to exist.

We can show why volcanoes erupt, why cancer kills people, why there is weightlessness in space, how earthquakes work, why filiments get warm and emit light when a current is applied, and design highly advanced circuitry that can carry text/audio/video thousands of miles in seconds, simply with electricity, but there is no way of proving that God exists, no matter what we do. There is absolutly no evidence that the 'person' that 'created' and 'controls' everything is a reality.

Money is not the root of all evils, Religion is. How many wars has Religion played a key part in?

Just to state some facts

Catholic Charities is one of the LARGEST charities on the planet. It is active in every country except N. Korea.

Catholic Charities has one of the lowest operating budgets of any charities. There are no six-figure execs on the board (like the Red Cross).

I am sure the Christian charities are a doing just a much to help in South Asia.

 

[marcello]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Doesn't anyone have any backbone anymore? It just seems that when faced with a problem; rent is due, drug addiction, marital problems...many people turn to "God" to help them solve all their problems.

Why doesn't the average Joe see that "God" is just an imaginary CRUTCH? If you want to quit drinking, only YOU CAN MAKE YOU QUIT DRINKING. If you want to stop beating your dog, ONLY YOU CAN MAKE YOU STOP BEATING THE DOG.

God won't save your marriage, pay the bills or wash your car. God also WILL NOT "give you the strength" to do any of the above.

If you're a weak person, admit you're weak and learn to be strong on your own. Leave The Good Book where it belongs; gathering dust in a seedy motel nightstand drawer.

You're making a huge assumption that religious folks rely on their faith as a "crutch" to solve their own problems. I'm not a deeply religious person, but as I see it, people seek God in the same way that they seek friends, family members, even pets. People take comfort in the fact that no matter how tough times are, those things are there for them, as "anchors."

Have you ever asked a friend for advice when you were in a bind? Maybe not to get a real answer, but just to get your thoughts out and maybe reflect on your problem? Some people use prayer in the same way. While you might find that "weak", I find it admirable in some ways. There are far worse ways of dealing with your problems than worship. Drinking and smoking will not "give you the strength", but they will make things hurt a little bit less. Those activities are escapes, while prayer is more reflective.

I like to consider myself strong willed and self sufficient. I usually don't seek God's help to give me the will power to make tough decisions. Others do. As long as one finds strength and motivation, who cares about the means by which he/she obtains it?

I thought this was an interesting point Mr. Chad. I'm not a believer in organized religion but I have no problem with people who have faith outside of the church, temple, whatever and I think this is one of the best explanations of that.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: rasholianmon

Originally posted by: Injury
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Regardless of whether God exisits or not following a moral code that reflects that of a Catholic makes me feel better... not because I know there is a God or anything like that, but because I know that I'm doing what is RIGHT.


All people in all religions or lack therof can understand that things like murder, stealing and cheating are wrong, so what is the big deal with how some people help remind themselves of this?


So what if a "weak" person turns to God? So what if they need someone to help them get back on their feet? If believing in God helps them turn their life around, who really gives a crap how they do it?


MichaelD, you are no different than the people who try to cram religion down your face or scream that you're going to hell because you don't believe. There are two ends of the spectrum. Why do you have to bring up such a fit over something that you believe you are so correct in?


Sometimes people act like this is some sort of freaking competion or something... it's ridiculous.

you do know that the use of rosary beads and the veneration of the virgin mary and the saints amount to idolatry, right?

Yep - using beads to keep track of counting is horrible. :roll:
Yep - showing respect to Mary because she's the mother of your savior is horrible. :roll:
Yep - praising saints for their good work is horrible. :roll:

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: rasholianmon

Originally posted by: Injury
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Regardless of whether God exisits or not following a moral code that reflects that of a Catholic makes me feel better... not because I know there is a God or anything like that, but because I know that I'm doing what is RIGHT.


All people in all religions or lack therof can understand that things like murder, stealing and cheating are wrong, so what is the big deal with how some people help remind themselves of this?


So what if a "weak" person turns to God? So what if they need someone to help them get back on their feet? If believing in God helps them turn their life around, who really gives a crap how they do it?


MichaelD, you are no different than the people who try to cram religion down your face or scream that you're going to hell because you don't believe. There are two ends of the spectrum. Why do you have to bring up such a fit over something that you believe you are so correct in?


Sometimes people act like this is some sort of freaking competion or something... it's ridiculous.

you do know that the use of rosary beads and the veneration of the virgin mary and the saints amount to idolatry, right?

Yep - using beads to keep track of counting is horrible. :roll:
Yep - showing respect to Mary because she's the mother of your savior is horrible. :roll:
Yep - praising saints for their good work is horrible. :roll:

The word "worship" has undergone a change in meaning in English. It comes from the Old English weorthscipe, which means the condition of being worthy of honor, respect, or dignity. To worship in the older, larger sense is to ascribe honor, worth, or excellence to someone, whether a sage, a magistrate, or God.

For many centuries, the term worship simply meant showing respect or honor, and an example of this usage survives in contemporary English. British subjects refer to their magistrates as "Your Worship," although Americans would say "Your Honor." This doesn?t mean that British subjects worship their magistrates as gods (in fact, they may even despise a particular magistrate they are addressing). It means they are giving them the honor appropriate to their office, not the honor appropriate to God.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
"Are you saved?" asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: "As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5?8), but I?m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9?10, 1 Cor. 3:12?15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11?13)."

I can agree to that

Originally posted by: dawks
Money is not the root of all evils, Religion is. How many wars has Religion played a key part in?

In reality, none. Wars are ALWAYS fought over money (and wealth). It's just that sometimes the nobles who will profit from the war enlist the aid of corrupt priests in order to sell the war to the masses.

Also, I would point out that Paul did not say that money is the root of all evil. That is a common misquotation. He said that "the love of money is the root of all evil". (1 Timothy 6:10)

 

[MySoS]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
"Are you saved?" asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: "As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5?8), but I?m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9?10, 1 Cor. 3:12?15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11?13)."

I can agree to that

Originally posted by: dawks
Money is not the root of all evils, Religion is. How many wars has Religion played a key part in?

In reality, none. Wars are ALWAYS fought over money (and wealth). It's just that sometimes, the nobles who will profit from the war enlist the aid of corrupt priests in order to sell the war to the masses.

Also, I would point out that Paul did not say that money is the root of all evil. That is a common misquotation. He said that "the love of money is the root of all evil". (1 Timothy 6:10)

Get real. Look at the Middle East, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Northern Ireland, and countless others all conflicts who roots are religion. Religion is a plague that has swept the world for too long. You know at first I wasn't going to show my true opinion on religion but after reading this read I just can't help my self any more.

Call me intolerant I don't care, but I for one support banning religious teaching to children. It should be illegal for a child to go to church, temple, mosque. The spread of religion needs to be stopped, and this should be the first step with the children.