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Why do we hate Putin again?

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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,041
2,019
126
I find the Putin chearleading by some on the right absolutely misguided and loathesome, but I find those chearleading for a new Cold War even more so because it quite literally puts us and the world in a more dangerous posture (and I think Trump's rubbing China on Taiwan does the same).
Trump has already done both of those before even being sworn in, both praising Putin and suggesting nuclear expansion.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Well there's the whole aiding assad thing.
Meh, I never cared about Assad one way or another. I see him more as a figurehead for the Awalites, which is more accurate.The Awalites are an embattled minority within Syria, with a more interesting theology than mainstream Islam, one that I wish were more widespread at the expense of mainstream Islam.

I really think that political correctness in regards towards Islam really cloud analysis.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Russia doesn't have a right to boss their neighbors around nor take their territory.
The United States has bossed around Mexico, hasn't it? How would you react if Russia came here and assisted in a Mexican reconquest of Arizona and New Mexico?
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,941
126
I see a lot of smoke and selective demonization, and a denial of Russia's right to have legitimate interests.
As long as you let your flag fly freely where all can see it.

Then it's up to others to decide if you belong on their ignore lists or not.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,009
217
106
Because people are sheep and largely ignorant. Whether it's the left wing sheep or the right wing sheep - they are both sheep.

Putin is irrelevant and so is every other world so-called leader. These people are pawns in the game. The real people in charge are largely hidden.

Anyway, since most won't believe this, I will say that the media has been making Putin famous for many years now. Just like they've made Trump famous for many years. These things don't occur by accident.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
As long as you let your flag fly freely where all can see it.

Then it's up to others to decide if you belong on their ignore lists or not.
Just saying that I'm sensing a level of Iraq-war like frenzy from liberal-leftists regarding Russia. Seriously, castigating Russia for gay rights is the dumbest thing I've ever seen, and seriously myopic.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
21,179
13,359
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The United States has bossed around Mexico, hasn't it? How would you react if Russia came here and assisted in a Mexican reconquest of Arizona and New Mexico?
1. Doesn't make it right.
Also there are significant differences between diplomacy and some of the actions Russia takes. Cutting off gas supplies in the winter to wring concessions from Ukraine, funding political parties and campaigns of pro-Russian candidates to directly influence election outcomes.
2. What part of Russia did we assist Russia's neighbors in taking away from Russia. Please be specific.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
1. Doesn't make it right.
2. What part of Russia did we assist Russia's neighbors in taking away from Russia. Please be specific.
NATO expansion has effectively moved NATO troops 1000 miles closer to Moscow.

Germany was divided after WWII because it had launched an invasion of Russia which had killed 30 million people. And before that it had fought in WWI. And before that Napoleon launched an invasion of Russia. There is a legitimate need for a buffer space for them.

You have to realize this historical reality.

There were talks of Ukraine being possibly considered for NATO membership. If that had happened, Crimea becomes a part of NATO. there were talks of Georgia entering NATO.

Might actually does make right. Might made right in the American Manifest Destiny and throughout human history before that.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
21,179
13,359
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NATO expansion has effectively moved NATO troops 1000 miles closer to Moscow.

Germany was divided after WWII because it had launched an invasion of Russia which had killed 30 million people. And before that it had fought in WWI. And before that Napoleon launched an invasion of Russia. There is a legitimate need for a buffer space for them.

You have to realize this historical reality.

There were talks of Ukraine being possibly considered for NATO membership. If that had happened, Crimea becomes a part of NATO. there were talks of Georgia entering NATO.

Might actually does make right. Might made right in the American Manifest Destiny and throughout human history before that.
So sovereign countries can't decide what organizations they want to be a part of because they are next door to Russia? Why do you hate freedom so much?

BTW so far the only country invading its neighbors in that region has been Russia. Maybe if Russia wasn't so expansionist its neighbors wouldn't be paranoid enough to look for options help protect their territorial integrity.
 

Mayne

Diamond Member
Apr 13, 2014
8,763
1,287
126
good job Russia. You can continue on annexing shit because USA is now non-variable in the geopolitical sphere.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
So sovereign countries can't decide what organizations they want to be a part of because they are next door to Russia? Why do you hate freedom so much?

BTW so far the only country invading its neighbors in that region has been Russia. Maybe if Russia wasn't so expansionist its neighbors wouldn't be paranoid enough to look for options help protect their territorial integrity.
They can, but it is a bad idea for everyone involved except for the die hard Local nationalists. Frankly, just because Ukraine wants to be a part of NATO doesnt mean they should be able to join. NATO brings obligations on the USA. The real q is why give Ukraine something for free? Or worse? The Baltic states being in NATO conceivably could result in a situation which ends in a nuclear bomb exploding over NYC.

Not worth it on our end.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,941
126
Because people are sheep and largely ignorant. Whether it's the left wing sheep or the right wing sheep - they are both sheep.

Putin is irrelevant and so is every other world so-called leader. These people are pawns in the game. The real people in charge are largely hidden.

Anyway, since most won't believe this, I will say that the media has been making Putin famous for many years now. Just like they've made Trump famous for many years. These things don't occur by accident.
Your arrogance blinds you.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
21,179
13,359
136
They can, but it is a bad idea for everyone involved except for the die hard Local nationalists. Frankly, just because Ukraine wants to be a part of NATO doesnt mean they should be able to join. NATO brings obligations on the USA. The real q is why give Ukraine something for free? Or worse? The Baltic states being in NATO conceivably could result in a situation which ends in a nuclear bomb exploding over NYC.

Not worth it on our end.
How does the Balkins being in NATO result in NYC being nuked if Putin is such a good guy and statesman?
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,009
217
106
Your arrogance blinds you.
So the media hasn't been pushing Putin and Trump in our faces for years now?

Let's see: Trump has been on mainstream media outlets since at least the 90s. He has made millions alone from his reality show. He has been involved in political news since 2008 after Obama won due to his birther BS. As for Putin, the Western media has equally glamorized him as well as demonized him. They make him "Man Of the Year" or whatever and yet call him a "dictator" or this or that. It's been going on for many years now.

And now with the popularization of the so-called internet news, Putin and Trump have been promoted more than ever before. We have countless articles about both of these people.

Your average person (sorry I used the word sheep) reads various articles about these men and makes a certain opinion. That's all it is. It isn't reality.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
How does the Balkins being in NATO result in NYC being nuked if Putin is such a good guy and statesman?
Perception is reality. Look, when people feel threatened they do all sorts of irrational things. Iraq War was sold to the public, which by the way bought it, on the 1% doctrine reasoning. The more you threaten and demonize Putin, the more likely he is to misinterpret events.

It made no strategic sense for the Baltic states to be admitted into NATO. NOne whatsoever. NATO is an alliance which obligates its members to possible war. The Baltic states are historically Russian, hardly factor into Western European history not to mention American history. How many families have relatives in the Baltic states? How many families can trace their roots to France, Germany, or England, all NATO members?
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Someone ban Desura.
Look at this neocon paranoia you got going on here. You guys act like any dissenting view of Russia is automatically delegitimate. This makes for a very lackluster discussion, an obscuring of the truth, and which ultimately results in bad decisions.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
21,179
13,359
136
Perception is reality. Look, when people feel threatened they do all sorts of irrational things. Iraq War was sold to the public, which by the way bought it, on the 1% doctrine reasoning. The more you threaten and demonize Putin, the more likely he is to misinterpret events.

It made no strategic sense for the Baltic states to be admitted into NATO. NOne whatsoever. NATO is an alliance which obligates its members to possible war. The Baltic states are historically Russian, hardly factor into Western European history not to mention American history. How many families have relatives in the Baltic states? How many families can trace their roots to France, Germany, or England, all NATO members?
The only reality so far is Russia invading its neighbors.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,522
3,629
126
Perception is reality. Look, when people feel threatened they do all sorts of irrational things. Iraq War was sold to the public, which by the way bought it, on the 1% doctrine reasoning. The more you threaten and demonize Putin, the more likely he is to misinterpret events.

It made no strategic sense for the Baltic states to be admitted into NATO. NOne whatsoever. NATO is an alliance which obligates its members to possible war. The Baltic states are historically Russian, hardly factor into Western European history not to mention American history. How many families have relatives in the Baltic states? How many families can trace their roots to France, Germany, or England, all NATO members?
Whether it made sense for NATO to expand or not is moot, it made sense for those Nations to join NATO. If Russia doesn't like it, that's Russia's problem.
 

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