Why do we, as citizens, really need guns?

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: nkgreen
MOTHERFUCKING BAN.

/THREAD

 

[mxyzptlk]

What we need is a better way of determining who really needs a firearm and who really needs to be kept far far away from any firearm.

For a Little old lady who's afraid of being mugged.. a concealed pistol might be a good thing. Society in general might benefit.
But for the Crazy guy who just wants to go on a rampage.. Society would definitely benefit if he did not have access to guns
Gang banger interested in protecting his crack dealing market share.. Maybe we should limit his access to guns too.
Drunken moron who just wants to shoot bottles in his backyard.. fine, if there's no one else within range, but when you put the same idiot in a densely populated area then I think the interests of society are better served by him not having a gun.


Banning guns isn't the answer. Finding a better way to keep guns out of the hands of idiots and people I don't like is the answer. Now, if you love your guns so much go figure that shit out. I'm too busy trying to think of ways to get weed legalized.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: spidey07
To kill people or animals, that's why. Or for just plain fun.

seriously. I dont hunt, and I dont keep a gun around for personal protection, but I have .22 pistol, and my dad has a few guns, that I take out once in a while for a fun afternoon.

 

[OCGuy]

What other constitutional rights do you think we can live without?


Go away.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
What other constitutional rights do you think we can live without?


Go away.

I'm tempted to post a thread "Why do we, as citizens, really need free speech?" but I'm not ready to get banned yet.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
What other constitutional rights do you think we can live without?


Go away.

First and Fourth. Who really needs them? We can trust the government.

 

[Baked]

Because this is America! You should get your citizenship revoked for asking such a ridiculous question.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
What other constitutional rights do you think we can live without?


Go away.

I'm tempted to post a thread "Why do we, as citizens, really need free speech?" but I'm not ready to get banned yet.

Well, that question was answered. :laugh:

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
What other constitutional rights do you think we can live without?


Go away.

First and Fourth. Who really needs them? We can trust the government.

lets pitch 3 and 9 as well. I have space for some troops to hang out, and nobody seems to pay much attention to the 9th to start with.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
What other constitutional rights do you think we can live without?


Go away.

I'm tempted to post a thread "Why do we, as citizens, really need free speech?" but I'm not ready to get banned yet.

Well, that question was answered. :laugh:

Wow, that was fast.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
What other constitutional rights do you think we can live without?


Go away.

I'm tempted to post a thread "Why do we, as citizens, really need free speech?" but I'm not ready to get banned yet.

Well, that question was answered. :laugh:

Wow, that was fast.

I know.

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
What other constitutional rights do you think we can live without?


Go away.

I'm tempted to post a thread "Why do we, as citizens, really need free speech?" but I'm not ready to get banned yet.

Well, that question was answered. :laugh:

Wow, that was fast.

I know.

You has no free speach hear!!!

 

[PaperclipGod]

Originally posted by: swbsam
I understand and respect your point, but I still see a difference protecting my freedom to destroy my own life (alcohol) vs. the lives of others.

On that note, how is it justified that guns are legally attainable and drugs are not? If we're talking about guns being a symbol of individual rights being of ultimate importance, why aren't more people worked up about prohibitive drug laws? Not to change the topic, but how is prohibition of a class of items over another sound?

Alcohol doesn't only affect the person who chooses to use it, though -- drunk driving was involved in nearly 17,000 traffic deaths in 2005. There are very few things you can do which do not impact the lives of others, even if it's only indirectly.

As for drugs, I think they should be legal. People aren't more "worked up" over it, though, because the government is winning (or has won) the "war on drugs". People like to joke that they're losing the war, but when you look at how much of our tax-money is spent by our elected officials on fighting drug use in this country, it's clear that the government's propaganda machine of "don't do drugs" has made a definite impact on people's view of recreational drugs.

I'm generally in favor of legalizing everything, while making punishments much harsher for misuse of those freedoms. The only reason there's this hypocritical dichotomy of legal alcohol and illegal drugs is because people have been hearing government propaganda about the inherent evil of recreational drugs for the last 80 years. If you grow up hearing it, it becomes what you believe. Sort of like the old political barb of "if you tell a lie long enough, eventually it becomes the truth." Another synonym might be looking at the political affiliations of children depending on what party their parents supported. Generally it's the same. Thought and logic is much less of a motivator than conditioning.

 

[soulcougher73]

Well i believe when the right to bare arms was put in the constituion it was their as a means to keep the government in check so to speak. Im not a gun owner nor really follow the fight on this but that is what ive heard/read. Makes sense to me so im all for gun ownership. Now owning an arsenal may be taking it a bit far

 

[NeoV]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the constitution also didn't give women the right to vote in this country - nor did it give anyone who had black skin the right to vote. It was written in a world so completely different from the world today that you could easily argue that the entire thing should be discarded and re-written.

That said, I'm not in favor of banning guns in the United States.

We have two problems with guns in America - virtually no restrictions on how many guns people can buy - yes, there are collectors, but there are also people who legally buy guns and then re-sell them to people who can't - and we pretty much just look the other way at such buyers. This is the major cause of the supply of guns available to people who shouldn't have guns.

The other problem with guns in America is the appalling lack of concern about the amount and rates of gun violence here, and the shocking lack of any attempts at all to change things. A guy shoots up a school in Germany, they call special sessions of their governing body to see what went wrong and what they can do about it. A guy shoots up a factory here, another guy the same weekend goes on a shooting rampage through small towns in Alabama, and it's page 3 news in the newspaper - and the next week another family is killed, and the next week a nursing home is shot to hell, and the next week.....you get the idea. We've come to accept this violence as part of what we are - and that is the saddest part of all.

 

[oznerol]

I don't love guns. I'm not the biggest fan of the midwest and most of the south. I don't own any guns. But I still find it difficult to rationalize why anyone would be so vehemently anti-gun.

- I would be more concerned if only police and government soldiers had access to guns.
- I would rather live in a world where guns were not necessary, but I'm not naive enough to think it's possible.
- I think a properly-trained, armed society isn't the worst thing in the world.
- I think I do various things that others would deem unnecessary, and I am glad that I am still able to do these things without legal ramifications.
- I'm pretty sure I can go to Home Depot and obtain items that can kill people just as effectively, if not moreso, than a gun.
- I think reckless drivers are a bigger threat to society than legal gun owners.
- I like random, unnecessary lists.

So yea, that's why I think guns are alright.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Why do you really need a fire extinguisher if the fire department is there to save you?

Good one.

 

[daishi5]

Ugh, I cant stop myself from replying, so here goes.

Because this woman did not deserve to be raped again just because the police did not make it in time.

The first time she was attacked, she tried to escape when she heard glass break in the basement. The man caught her, punched her in the face, forced her into a bedroom, and raped her. The second attempt occurred less than a week after the first. The rapist broke in through the same basement window as before and shut off power to her home. She tried to call 911 but the phone was dependent on house current and wouldn't work. So she got a shotgun and waited. When he broke through the basement door she shot him in the chest.

source

Because a 72 year old woman is not capable of fighting off a rapist with her bare hands, or even with a knife or baseball bat.

A 56-year-old rape victim said the armed, masked man who attacked her spent six hours sexually assaulting her, drinking her liquor and calling her obscene names. Then he washed the glasses he drank from, took the house key she offered and left, according to testimony Thursday in the second day of Anthony Allen Peralez's trial. Peralez, 41, is accused of burglarizing, raping and beating that woman Sept. 2, 2000, on North Sheridan Avenue and a 74-year-old woman Aug. 6, 2000, on Eagle View Drive. He also is charged with burglarizing, kidnapping and raping a 51-year-old Security woman Sept. 12, 1999, on Rosemont Drive. He was arrested after a 72-year-old woman shot him three times when he broke into her home Nov. 18. He is charged with trespassing and burglary with intent to commit sexual assault in that case.

Source

Because this man should not be forced to suffer the indignity of having his crippled wife held hostage in his own home.

Charles ?Johnny? Johnson is 91 years old. He has been married to Berlie Mae Johnson, who is 90 years old, for the last 72 years. At around 4pm, two home invaders broke in to their Ocoee, Florida home. One of the home invaders placed a gun to the head of Berlie Mae Johnson, who was sitting in her wheelchair. The criminals also ripped the phone from the wall, so that the police could not be called. Mr. Johnson, however, was prepared for this type of situation, and and grabbed his decades-old .38 caliber revolver.

source

And finally, when your home is invaded, 911 will not be there in time, if you believe we should not be allowed to have guns, listen to this call, and just remind yourself. This woman should have been raped because she was smaller than him, and she can't be trusted with a big bad dangerous gun.

Source: youtube video with gun propaganda

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: NeoV

The other problem with guns in America is the appalling lack of concern about the amount and rates of gun violence here, and the shocking lack of any attempts at all to change things. A guy shoots up a school in Germany, they call special sessions of their governing body to see what went wrong and what they can do about it. A guy shoots up a factory here, another guy the same weekend goes on a shooting rampage through small towns in Alabama, and it's page 3 news in the newspaper - and the next week another family is killed, and the next week a nursing home is shot to hell, and the next week.....you get the idea. We've come to accept this violence as part of what we are - and that is the saddest part of all.

Good point. I was watching BBC News coverage of the nursing home shooting in North Carolina and the anchor and correspondent repeatedly referenced the issue of gun control. "Does this reopen the debate about gun control in the US?" "Absolutely it does." etc.

It makes sense that the Brits would see that angle, considering they have among the more draconian gun laws on the planet. Even regular police officers there cannot carry handguns. The UK is not really less violent that the US in a lot of respects, but the difference is that with far fewer guns, people get stabbed instead, so there are fewer deaths.

I think it is a good debate. But of course gun control was not even hinted at in any of the US coverage.

For the record, I'm Canadian, and I'm for gun control, but in conjunction with other measures such as drug legalization. Reduce a large revenue source for organized criminals and concurrently reduce the violent measures they take to protect their black market assets.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha

Originally posted by: NeoV

The other problem with guns in America is the appalling lack of concern about the amount and rates of gun violence here, and the shocking lack of any attempts at all to change things. A guy shoots up a school in Germany, they call special sessions of their governing body to see what went wrong and what they can do about it. A guy shoots up a factory here, another guy the same weekend goes on a shooting rampage through small towns in Alabama, and it's page 3 news in the newspaper - and the next week another family is killed, and the next week a nursing home is shot to hell, and the next week.....you get the idea. We've come to accept this violence as part of what we are - and that is the saddest part of all.

Good point. I was watching BBC News coverage of the nursing home shooting in North Carolina and the anchor and correspondent repeatedly referenced the issue of gun control. "Does this reopen the debate about gun control in the US?" "Absolutely it does." etc.

It makes sense that the Brits would see that angle, considering they have among the more draconian gun laws on the planet. Even regular police officers there cannot carry handguns. The UK is not really less violent that the US in a lot of respects, but the difference is that with far fewer guns, people get stabbed instead, so there are fewer deaths.

I think it is a good debate. But of course gun control was not even hinted at in any of the US coverage.

For the record, I'm Canadian, and I'm for gun control, but in conjunction with other measures such as drug legalization. Reduce a large revenue source for organized criminals and concurrently reduce the violent measures they take to protect their black market assets.

Newsflash: Drug dealers don't abide by gun laws anyway.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the constitution also didn't give women the right to vote in this country - nor did it give anyone who had black skin the right to vote. It was written in a world so completely different from the world today that you could easily argue that the entire thing should be discarded and re-written.

<snip>

Ok. It is actually silent regarding the sex of voters until passage of the 19th amendment and the only allusion to slavery is the 3/5's rule which really regards apportionment and makes no mention of the race of "other persons". The legality of slavery was actually up to the individual states until the passage of the 13th amendment and, more importantly, the 14th amendment which explicitly states that the Constitution applies to the states as well as the federal government.

 

[OverVolt]

Why is any of this stuff legal OP?

http://www.cracked.com/article...re-actually-legal.html

Please ponder it for me.

 

[Modelworks]

"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them." -George Mason
"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." -Mao Tse Tung

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: swbsam
I'm really wondering why gun control is such a terrible thing, in light of all of the other things that are already prohibited by antiquated laws. For example, I don't believe that marijuana has actually hurt anyone yet it's illegal, but guns have the potential.

What are these reasons that we really (not law enforcement) *NEED* guns? Hunting? Protecting your family from intruders? If you do have a gun for protecting your family from intruders, have you ever been in the position that you've had to use it? Are there any other reasons I'm not thinking about?

why do we need insurance? have you ever been in a position where you need your homeowners insurance or renter's insurance?

a gun for self-defense is another form of insurance.

 

[olds]

It's cute how some of you Emo nerds think you possess critical thinking skills.