Why do we, as citizens, really need guns?

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The one she caught from your grandpa, huh?

My grandfather is dead, you sadistic eunuch :roll:

 

[RoloMather]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Pro-gun idiots always say we shouldn't ban guns because the bad guys will still get guns.

Just because bad people do bad things is irrelevant to this discussion. People will still kill people, but that doesn't mean we should lift the ban on committing murder.

At least half the people in the country are morons who I wouldn't trust with a gun. Most of these people are CURRENTLY able to buy guns. Just because a person has lived a lawful life up to now, doesn't mean they will do so in the future. I've seen people get into fistfights over park spots......now what if these people were both armed in the same populated parking lot?

If everyone had guns, and there was a dispute or altercation......I know I would not want to be a cop in a world where anyone and everyone is most likely armed.

If you consider many of these school shootings, these people are not always criminals by heart......these are not home invasions, they are not burglaries.....these are troubled young people who have easy access to firearms. Many of these little punks would never have been able to commit these crimes if it were not that easy to obtain a firearm.

When two people have a gun......and they both know it, the mindset of "shoot or be shot" can sink in which just makes things worse.

I hereby nominate this as the post most full of fail.

Seconded. FAIL ++

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: RoloMather

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Pro-gun idiots always say we shouldn't ban guns because the bad guys will still get guns.

Just because bad people do bad things is irrelevant to this discussion. People will still kill people, but that doesn't mean we should lift the ban on committing murder.

At least half the people in the country are morons who I wouldn't trust with a gun. Most of these people are CURRENTLY able to buy guns. Just because a person has lived a lawful life up to now, doesn't mean they will do so in the future. I've seen people get into fistfights over park spots......now what if these people were both armed in the same populated parking lot?

If everyone had guns, and there was a dispute or altercation......I know I would not want to be a cop in a world where anyone and everyone is most likely armed.

If you consider many of these school shootings, these people are not always criminals by heart......these are not home invasions, they are not burglaries.....these are troubled young people who have easy access to firearms. Many of these little punks would never have been able to commit these crimes if it were not that easy to obtain a firearm.

When two people have a gun......and they both know it, the mindset of "shoot or be shot" can sink in which just makes things worse.

I hereby nominate this as the post most full of fail.

Seconded. FAIL ++

Fail-post of the year, actually.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
As someoone who had a violent past I can tell you what happens. When you get a gun and get into a silly fight over a parking spot you politely remove yourself from the situation.

Why?

Because if you continue the path you are on them you know that someone is going to get really hurt and probably killed. You know this is not going to be some little altercation and a slap on the wrist, but a prison sentence, the loss of life (possibly yours) and your expensive weapon is going to be taken from you (and your ability to carry it) forever.

So wearing a firearm has kept me out of fights. Not by wielding it or brandishing it. Simply by knowing the responsibility of what I am wearing. Rather then say that smart ass comment back or push the guy and call him a pussy. I keep my mouth shut, apologize and walk away. Because I know that if I don't, one of us is going to end up dead. That is a very harsh reality.

If more people realized how many around them were armed, they would be much more polite.

I'm not sure how this reconciles with your earlier post, but it espouses a much more reasoned viewpoint.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Pro-gun idiots always say we shouldn't ban guns because the bad guys will still get guns.

Just because bad people do bad things is irrelevant to this discussion. People will still kill people, but that doesn't mean we should lift the ban on committing murder.

At least half the people in the country are morons who I wouldn't trust with a gun. Most of these people are CURRENTLY able to buy guns. Just because a person has lived a lawful life up to now, doesn't mean they will do so in the future. I've seen people get into fistfights over park spots......now what if these people were both armed in the same populated parking lot?

If everyone had guns, and there was a dispute or altercation......I know I would not want to be a cop in a world where anyone and everyone is most likely armed.

If you consider many of these school shootings, these people are not always criminals by heart......these are not home invasions, they are not burglaries.....these are troubled young people who have easy access to firearms. Many of these little punks would never have been able to commit these crimes if it were not that easy to obtain a firearm.

When two people have a gun......and they both know it, the mindset of "shoot or be shot" can sink in which just makes things worse.

As someoone who had a violent past I can tell you what happens. When you get a gun and get into a silly fight over a parking spot you politely remove yourself from the situation.

Why?

Because if you continue the path you are on them you know that someone is going to get really hurt and probably killed. You know this is not going to be some little altercation and a slap on the wrist, but a prison sentence, the loss of life (possibly yours) and your expensive weapon is going to be taken from you (and your ability to carry it) forever.

So wearing a firearm has kept me out of fights. Not by wielding it or brandishing it. Simply by knowing the responsibility of what I am wearing. Rather then say that smart ass comment back or push the guy and call him a pussy. I keep my mouth shut, apologize and walk away. Because I know that if I don't, one of us is going to end up dead. That is a very harsh reality.

If more people realized how many around them were armed, they would be much more polite.

yep not to mention that any crime you commit while carrying comes with the added "with a deadly weapon" at the end of it whether or not it was ever brandished or used.

Punching someone in the face goes from a simple aggravated assault to assault with a deadly weapon

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: RoloMather

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Pro-gun idiots always say we shouldn't ban guns because the bad guys will still get guns.

Just because bad people do bad things is irrelevant to this discussion. People will still kill people, but that doesn't mean we should lift the ban on committing murder.

At least half the people in the country are morons who I wouldn't trust with a gun. Most of these people are CURRENTLY able to buy guns. Just because a person has lived a lawful life up to now, doesn't mean they will do so in the future. I've seen people get into fistfights over park spots......now what if these people were both armed in the same populated parking lot?

If everyone had guns, and there was a dispute or altercation......I know I would not want to be a cop in a world where anyone and everyone is most likely armed.

If you consider many of these school shootings, these people are not always criminals by heart......these are not home invasions, they are not burglaries.....these are troubled young people who have easy access to firearms. Many of these little punks would never have been able to commit these crimes if it were not that easy to obtain a firearm.

When two people have a gun......and they both know it, the mindset of "shoot or be shot" can sink in which just makes things worse.

I hereby nominate this as the post most full of fail.

Seconded. FAIL ++

Fail-post of the year, actually.

Fail post of the internet. Sadly, many people agree with the logic.

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: sourceninja
As someoone who had a violent past I can tell you what happens. When you get a gun and get into a silly fight over a parking spot you politely remove yourself from the situation.

Why?

Because if you continue the path you are on them you know that someone is going to get really hurt and probably killed. You know this is not going to be some little altercation and a slap on the wrist, but a prison sentence, the loss of life (possibly yours) and your expensive weapon is going to be taken from you (and your ability to carry it) forever.

So wearing a firearm has kept me out of fights. Not by wielding it or brandishing it. Simply by knowing the responsibility of what I am wearing. Rather then say that smart ass comment back or push the guy and call him a pussy. I keep my mouth shut, apologize and walk away. Because I know that if I don't, one of us is going to end up dead. That is a very harsh reality.

If more people realized how many around them were armed, they would be much more polite.

I'm not sure how this reconciles with your earlier post, but it espouses a much more reasoned viewpoint.

I am assuming you are talking about my car trouble this morning. Basically, if he had blocked the road and prevented my ability to go on my way I would be stuck in my car far from police help. Knowing I had a firearm that could be used to stop someone in that situation from hurting or killing me made me feel much more relaxed. The guy was obviously very upset and was already putting my life in danger.

I hope to never have to shoot someone. But I feel comforted knowing I have the tools to keep myself safe.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: sourceninja
As someoone who had a violent past I can tell you what happens. When you get a gun and get into a silly fight over a parking spot you politely remove yourself from the situation.

Why?

Because if you continue the path you are on them you know that someone is going to get really hurt and probably killed. You know this is not going to be some little altercation and a slap on the wrist, but a prison sentence, the loss of life (possibly yours) and your expensive weapon is going to be taken from you (and your ability to carry it) forever.

So wearing a firearm has kept me out of fights. Not by wielding it or brandishing it. Simply by knowing the responsibility of what I am wearing. Rather then say that smart ass comment back or push the guy and call him a pussy. I keep my mouth shut, apologize and walk away. Because I know that if I don't, one of us is going to end up dead. That is a very harsh reality.

If more people realized how many around them were armed, they would be much more polite.

I'm not sure how this reconciles with your earlier post, but it espouses a much more reasoned viewpoint.

I am assuming you are talking about my car trouble this morning. Basically, if he had blocked the road and prevented my ability to go on my way I would be stuck in my car far from police help. Knowing I had a firearm that could be used to stop someone in that situation from hurting or killing me made me feel much more relaxed. The guy was obviously very upset and was already putting my life in danger.

I hope to never have to shoot someone. But I feel comforted knowing I have the tools to keep myself safe.

Yet about every "we should just make guns illegal!!!" person doesn't understand that for some reason. Baffles me.

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Pro-gun idiots always say we shouldn't ban guns because the bad guys will still get guns.

Just because bad people do bad things is irrelevant to this discussion. People will still kill people, but that doesn't mean we should lift the ban on committing murder.

At least half the people in the country are morons who I wouldn't trust with a gun. Most of these people are CURRENTLY able to buy guns. Just because a person has lived a lawful life up to now, doesn't mean they will do so in the future. I've seen people get into fistfights over park spots......now what if these people were both armed in the same populated parking lot?

If everyone had guns, and there was a dispute or altercation......I know I would not want to be a cop in a world where anyone and everyone is most likely armed.

If you consider many of these school shootings, these people are not always criminals by heart......these are not home invasions, they are not burglaries.....these are troubled young people who have easy access to firearms. Many of these little punks would never have been able to commit these crimes if it were not that easy to obtain a firearm.

When two people have a gun......and they both know it, the mindset of "shoot or be shot" can sink in which just makes things worse.

Speaking from a police officer standpoint, i wholeheartedly disagree with you. The simple truth to it is that the people I arrest for serious crimes on a daily/weekly/yearly basis are not allowed to have firearms in the first place anyway. The laws are already in place stating this. Most people, such as yourself, simply have no interest in firearms and care not to own one, carry one, or practice with one. I do not attack their right NOT to own a gun, as that is a personal choice of theirs. However, I do see people occasionally attacked at random that really are innocent bystanders in a very unfortunate situation and, in Illinois at least, they have little to no means to defend themselves when in public. Police response is not instantaneous, nor is it always the best course of action in any given instant. Sometimes people have to defend themselves, even with deadly force, before any police response can be initiated. I do wish Illinois would allow more people to carry firearms in a concealed and safe manner. However, currently that is restricted to law enforcement only, which, statistically speaking, are more prone to commit crimes then the general public that also carry firearms.

I've read in a study (I can't find the link or study name, I will link it if found), In various interviews with criminals from states that allow concealed carry, that the criminals are generally more scared of people then in non-conceal carry states. Indeed, just looking at crime rates, certain crimes drop when a state enacts concealed carry laws vs. those that do not. This unreasonable fear that gun-fights will happen in the streets and that everyone will resolve their differences with a bullet is nonsense. Every single state that has enacted CC laws disproves that very theory (and there are only a few states left WITHOUT CC laws.) Indeed, the entire criminal mindset is to prey upon the weak and helpless. They generally will chose people who are not paying attention, carry themselves in a manner that conveys a lack of confidence, and are defenseless. A person carrying a firearm is (from personal experience) more aware, carry themselves better, and are certainly not defenseless.

 

[OnePingOnly]

Well said, FallenHero.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: hiromizu

Originally posted by: spidey07
To kill people or animals, that's why. Or for just plain fun.

Which according to some includes the two.

There's really no need for guns in society. Only the police or other law enforcement officers should carry them - and use them as sparingly as possible. A voice of reason goes a long way.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! I can't belive you said that. You've lived a very sheltered life haven't you? Do you really think the world is such a Happy Joy Feeling world ala Demolition Man? There are people out there that would kill you for $20 and a pack of smokes.

Come back and talk that shit about a voice of reason when you have to fight someone for your life. I had to do it once without a gun, and never again will I be defenseless and hope that I can land a lucky hit to make someone stop.
You'll gain a completely new perspective on life once you have stared down your own mortality.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Pro-gun idiots always say we shouldn't ban guns because the bad guys will still get guns.

Just because bad people do bad things is irrelevant to this discussion. People will still kill people, but that doesn't mean we should lift the ban on committing murder.

At least half the people in the country are morons who I wouldn't trust with a gun. Most of these people are CURRENTLY able to buy guns. Just because a person has lived a lawful life up to now, doesn't mean they will do so in the future. I've seen people get into fistfights over park spots......now what if these people were both armed in the same populated parking lot?

If everyone had guns, and there was a dispute or altercation......I know I would not want to be a cop in a world where anyone and everyone is most likely armed.

If you consider many of these school shootings, these people are not always criminals by heart......these are not home invasions, they are not burglaries.....these are troubled young people who have easy access to firearms. Many of these little punks would never have been able to commit these crimes if it were not that easy to obtain a firearm.

When two people have a gun......and they both know it, the mindset of "shoot or be shot" can sink in which just makes things worse.

Yeah dude. I'm totally for banning items from the law-abiding majority of a populace, because of what a law-breaking minority might do. I don't see that having far-reaching implications at all. Guns, cars, boats, etc....all possible tools in the commission of a crime. I don't even trust half the morons out there to drive properly. I mean, so many freeway suicides could be prevented if angsty teens didn't have access to cars.

Just because a person has lived a lawful life up to now, doesn't mean they will do so in the future.

Right on! Just because one hasn't stabbed someone else at a restaurant with the steak knives, doesn't mean they won't do so in the future! Hell, my neighbor fertilizes his lawn....he could build a bomb with the other items in his garage! I mean, anyone could become a terrorist!

Seriously, your Minority Report logic scares me.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: racolvin

Originally posted by: hiromizu

Originally posted by: spidey07
To kill people or animals, that's why. Or for just plain fun.

Which according to some includes the two.

There's really no need for guns in society. Only the police or other law enforcement officers should carry them - and use them as sparingly as possible. A voice of reason goes a long way.

Oh please ...

The whole point of the "Right To Bear Arms" is than an an armed populace is able to defend itself against an oppressive government. The poor schlubs who wrote the Constitution believed that armed rebellion is a perfectly viable way for the citizenry to force a government to either correct itself or to replace that government with one that is more friendly to their citizens.

Hunting and home protection are fine reasons to own a gun but the real reason that right is enshrined in the Constitution is keeping the politicians on their toes.

THIS!!!!!!!!

<--- does not own a gun and cannot be classified as an NRA card-carrying, pistol-toting gun nut

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: hiromizu

Originally posted by: spidey07
To kill people or animals, that's why. Or for just plain fun.

Which according to some includes the two.

There's really no need for guns in society. Only the police or other law enforcement officers should carry them - and use them as sparingly as possible. A voice of reason goes a long way.

LMAO!!! i want to see how effective the voice of reason is against a psychotic serial killer. i think you should go out to the worst neighborhoods in the world and preach your voice of reason beliefs.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Deeko
The problem with these threads isn't that its a never ending argument...it is....its that the majority of the pro gun crowd is a bunch of complete assholes when the subject comes up.

For the record, I am NOT anti gun. But the attitude of certain pro-gun people makes me want to be.

the same can be said about the other side as well, so it seems pretty even, doesn't it?

 

[Dead3ye]

Is this fucking thread still going on?!

Man, there are too many fail posts in this thread to quote any of them. My head hurts...

 

[ironforge]

We have the right to protect ourselves. Not only against individuals breaking into our home, but also the government. Like illegal drugs, illegal aliens, there will always be guns. If you keep them out of the citizens hands, then only the criminals will have them. How easy will it be for them to break into your house now?

 

[Modular]

Originally posted by: swbsam


Of course, people will find a way to kill if they want to, but body counts are much higher..

Are you serious? You have nothing to compare where we are now as a society that allows gun ownership to the same society that doesn't. And until you do, you can't possibly believe this to be true.

 

[CanFightIt]

Well, for one thing, a lot of these people DO hunt. Those who do not believe they can protect themselves. It is not about crime rates. It is about being able to protect yourself if a criminal does, indeed, target you.

In any case, I am sure I know 100 people, and I can guarantee you that less than half of them own a gun (including myself). Of those that do, I can guarantee that they all hunt. I realize that is anecdotal evidence, but I think it makes an important point: you are generalizing and stereotyping Americans, and not really making much of a point. What difference does it make how many people in other countries own guns? I think there is an argument to be made from your side, but you are not doing a very good job of making it.

 

[meltdown75]

ginormous stop signs > guns

 

[sutahz]

Gun control laws keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. It does nothing to stop criminals or in the case of people going on shooting spree's. If you want something, you can get it reguardless of any law made up by a bunch of buerocrats.

 

[lokiju]

Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.

/Thread

If you can't accept that then why accept any laws?

Why just zero in on this one?

From what you've posted it seems to be because of how it impacts you directly with no, little or limited regard to the rest of the citizens of the United States.

Think about it...

 

[JDMnAR1]

Originally posted by: lokiju
Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.

/Thread

If you can't accept that then why accept any laws?

Why just zero in on this one?

From what you've posted it seems to be because of how it impacts you directly with no, little or limited regard to the rest of the citizens of the United States.

Think about it...

Exactly.

<sarcasm>It doesn't affect me, so lets get rid of that pesky 19th too, not like women need to contribute to society unless it is in the kitchen or the bedroom. </sarcasm>

 

[HardcoreRobot]

Think about it...

Lost cause.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Modular

Originally posted by: swbsam


Of course, people will find a way to kill if they want to, but body counts are much higher..

Are you serious? You have nothing to compare where we are now as a society that allows gun ownership to the same society that doesn't. And until you do, you can't possibly believe this to be true.

Actually, you do. Since guns were banned in Great Britain, crimes/attacks committed with knives are way up.