Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
First of all, I don't own any Mac's, an iMac wouldn't really suit me very well, and as I've already stated, the PowerMac's are indeed far too expensive for what you get, no argument there.
Secondly, Im typing this on my Linux only workstation, that I use for admining a bunch of Solaris and Linux boxes, as well as two OpenBSD firewalls, so I have indeed figured out how to install and use UNIX/Linux/BSD.
And I don't know where you go shopping, but here in Sweden I can get an iMac for ~1.500$, this is indeed more expensive than getting a Dell or Compaq.
But the value isn't in the hardware, it's in the complete platform, a concept most people seem completely unable to grasp.
It's the same thing when companies buy SPARC based servers, they aren't buying it cause UltraSPARC's are faster than P4 Xeon's, cause they aren't until you begin scaling to really large boxen, they buy them cause Sun can supply you with the whole platform, you get a nice SPARC box, you get Solaris, and it's all made by Sun, CPU's, addon boards, etc etc, which makes it all a very stable and smooth platform, same with a Mac.
A Mac is indeed a more expenssive alternative to an x86, but it does have benefits as well as cons.
I only own x86's myself, but that doesn't keep me from seeing the benefits of other platforms, unlike the narrow minded people I was referring to above.
x86'ers tend to call Mac users zealots cause they keep badmouthing x86's/Windows, and I agree, many Mac users are indeed very zealous, but IMO, a similar percentage of x86 users are just as bad when it comes to badmouthing other platforms.
Oh yea? My parents always have trouble with Windows ("now do I use the right or left button here in this menu?" - incidentally, I could see how a one buttom Mac mouse would help them a lot, even though I'd get pissed with it's limited capabilities quickly!). Windows XP (or any other Windows) is not idiot proof. Neither is OS X, but I think OS X has the upper hand in usability.
I dual-boot Windows 2000 Pro and Debian Linux 3.0, and that doesn't stop me from wanting a PowerMac (or better yet, a PowerBook, which I can afford even less than a PowerMac).
As this thread so beautifully illustrates... :disgust:
Ok, I own a Mac-PPC, Sun-sparc4m, Sun-sparc4u, AMD-athlon tb, AMD-athlon XP, Intel-p3, Intel-p, and Intel-ppro (I dont think Im forgetting any...) and all are in use (well ppro is on loan to my brother. They each have a purpose and I like them each for different reasons. These reasons are only applicable to me, so if they do not fit your need, TS. 
sparcm:
stable, small, fairly quiet box for hacking around with OpenBSD on a different platform
sparc4u:
quiet machine to play with Solaris on its native platform
PPC:
desktop replacement, easy to use, powerful enough to get my work done easily, inexpensive (as compared to x86 laptops with the features I wanted at the time)
athlong tb:
Fairly fast machine running OpenBSD as a desktop (being replaced by the p3 system soon and another faster athlon in the future due to heat and laziness issues)
athlon xp:
fast, cheap, server system running OpenBSD
p3:
It will be dual eventually and will run linux for database type stuff that OpenBSD does not seem to handle as well
p:
quiet, small, firewall
ppro:
FreeBSD box at the moment for my brother to hack around on
Each has a use. Each one is good at what it does. Each one fufills my needs. If my solutions would not fill your needs, tough. If you dont like them you can definitely flame me for them, but you should be able to admit that my needs are different from yours, my tastes are different from yours, and my solutions (although different from yours) are good for me. Why did I spend "more" for some of these machines? Because in the long run, I think they are worth the money.
So please, spend less, get your faster machine, run your better operating system, bash Macs and show your ignorance in what may be important to someone else. Some of us dont buy computers for FPS or to be cool or whatever you possibly bought your system for. Im done with the thread.
sparcm:
stable, small, fairly quiet box for hacking around with OpenBSD on a different platform
sparc4u:
quiet machine to play with Solaris on its native platform
PPC:
desktop replacement, easy to use, powerful enough to get my work done easily, inexpensive (as compared to x86 laptops with the features I wanted at the time)
athlong tb:
Fairly fast machine running OpenBSD as a desktop (being replaced by the p3 system soon and another faster athlon in the future due to heat and laziness issues)
athlon xp:
fast, cheap, server system running OpenBSD
p3:
It will be dual eventually and will run linux for database type stuff that OpenBSD does not seem to handle as well
p:
quiet, small, firewall
ppro:
FreeBSD box at the moment for my brother to hack around on
Each has a use. Each one is good at what it does. Each one fufills my needs. If my solutions would not fill your needs, tough. If you dont like them you can definitely flame me for them, but you should be able to admit that my needs are different from yours, my tastes are different from yours, and my solutions (although different from yours) are good for me. Why did I spend "more" for some of these machines? Because in the long run, I think they are worth the money.
So please, spend less, get your faster machine, run your better operating system, bash Macs and show your ignorance in what may be important to someone else. Some of us dont buy computers for FPS or to be cool or whatever you possibly bought your system for. Im done with the thread.
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 23,780
- 1,351
- 126
Yeah, I don't buy computers for FPS either. It'd be stupid to buy a Mac for one, since even with the same card and the fastest CPU, a PC will be faster. Fortunately, I'm not a gamer, aside from a bit of Quake III or UT now and then for 20 minutes, after 5 hours of sitting in front of Office.
Anyways, it seems that InfoWorld loves the PowerBook G4 Titanium. There are a couple of mistakes in the article, but I would agree, the TiBook is the best laptop in the world in its class. Indeed, after looking around for some laptops for my boss, it is the amongst the best priced for its features. (And please don't quote me a bargain basement price on some 8 lb Inspiron, since they are not comparable machines.) Some of the the Fuji LifeBooks seem quite nice though.
It crashed and froze up constantly (even in the hardware test and OS X reinstallation bootup) so Apple agreed to repair it. It has been working fine since. My fan does get loud too but only after I play Quake 3 =)
Well, I figured it would be obvious enough from my previous posts, but maybe it's worth pointing out that I was being EXTREMELY sarcastic
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 23,780
- 1,351
- 126
Yeah I know.Originally posted by: Sunner
Well, I figured it would be obvious enough from my previous posts, but maybe it's worth pointing out that I was being EXTREMELY sarcastic
I was just reiterating the point that not all of us rate our computers by the frame rate in Giants.For those who don't get what I'm talking about: Sure a modded Civic will be faster some low end BMWs, but I'd rather have a BMW any day, even if the Civic had extra Type R stickers.
Dude, did you even read my reply to this misinformation the first time you posted it (2nd page of the thread)? Speed is wonderful thing, but it's pretty useless if you don't have any good apps to run. Guess what, people/companies who do film/video for a living are replacing their old Macs with new Macs. Why? It certainly isn't 'cause Macs render faster. So that means there must be something besides rendering speed that matters. :Q Maybe like software, use-ability, and stability. Like I said before, 95% of what you see on TV or at the movies is cut on a Mac.
Now before my "good apps" and "stability" comments get ripped into notice I kept my comments limited to the realm of post production. I'd appriciate it if all replies to this post did too.
BTW, it's "Mac" not "MAC" just a pet peeve.
Lethal
umm people stick with Macs mostly because that's probably what they were brought up on and have been developing on their whole lives. It like telling a professional photographer who's used regular film his whole life to switch to a new digital camera. Sure the digital camera may even be better and may even be easier to work with, but he's not gonna change.
Thats WRONG.
You know its wrong. I know its wrong. Many new movies have been done with PCs. Spiderman, MIIB(basically every Sony movie), Ice Age, etc. Heres what an editor of Ice Age said.
Hell one of the most popular TV shows 24, is done on Win2000 based systems from Avid. Stop spouting BS. Alot of places are using PC based systems. Its more like 50/50 as I previously stated. The only place the Mac beats out PCs is pro audio, and thats changing(though slowly), because the PC doesnt get the latest and greatest audio software right away like the Mac does.
What software do you think the pros use?
All I can say is Holy Cr@p I can't believe this is still going...I am almost sorry I asked...Heh, heh..ALMOST!
carry on...and pass the popcorn!
carry on...and pass the popcorn!
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 23,780
- 1,351
- 126
? You might want to check out the digital camera forums. Professional photographers used film because it was better and cheaper in many ways. That's partially changing now, but that's only because the pro-level digital cameras are finally coming down in price. Indeed, I have a 1.5 Megapixel pro camera from a few years back that cost something like $10000, and a similarly spec'd film camera would have cost less than $1000 and the images from film would have been much better quality.
Nowadays, the same is no longer true, and I use digital almost exclusively, but there are still distinct advantages to using film for some people.
Again, it comes down to what your needs and preferences are. It's a mistake to think that all people are better off with digital, just as it's a mistake to think that all people are better off with Windows PCs. In my case digital is good, but my TiBook is also good, and indeed it's the best value for what I do. And no, I did not grow up with Macs either. I made a conscious decision to switch my laptop to an OS X one, simply because I felt it was a better machine and OS, even if it didn't spit out as many FPS as my PC laptop did. Yes, I knew in advance my iBook would be slower in 3D games than my PIII laptop, yet I still felt that overall it was a better machine. Fancy that.
----
By the way, I also find it hard to believe though that 95% of 2D video is cut on Macs. Macs do hold much of the market, but I don't think it's anywhere near that high.
Okay, so are you talking about editing, FX, compositing or 3D animation? 'Cause they are all different (I'm not meaning to be condecending<sp?> here, but very few people seem to understand that editing, G/FX, compositing and 3D animation are all seperate things.) In my personal experience very few of the editors I know, post houses I've worked with or visited have any PC based systems. Most of them have a finishing/FX suite running discreet software, but that's neither here nor there since it is editing and it's not on Mac or Windows. And, like I said before, many places are replacing aging Avid setups w/FCP. Does that mean that no one uses Windows based system? Of course not, but the vast majority of people and companies who do TV and film use Macs running either Avid or Apple NLE software.
In regards to Audio, I've heard a lot of audio guys b*tching 'cause OS X handles audio poorly and hardware and software is just now starting to come out for X (which is still useless until Apple fixes the audio handling problems OS X has). But I'm not a audio guy so this is second hand knowledge, not personal experience.
Lethal
EDIT:
Sadist.
cmdrdredd
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2001
- 27,052
- 357
- 126
"3) Best in digital music. Yes the iPod is great, but what does that have to do with Apple computers? Does the apple sound card sound better? Do their speakers produce better sound? I doubt there is a major difference in sound from either type of computer when using the same quality parts."
ALL of the major recording studios Around (yes even skywalker ranch) has Macs for alot of their work.
"5) Burning DVDs. You can burn them on the PC too, sure their expensive iMovie is nice, but there are also nice programs for the PC if you want to spend that amount of money"
iMovie is a free software that comes preinstalled on EVERY mac.
"6) They have laptops. Hmm don't PCs?"
Yes but Apple laptops look better, are thinner and lighter and have a longer battery life.
"8) Macs can also use Microsoft Office! Well that certainly isn't an incentive. Give me a reason why Macs are better, not equal. Equal won't make me want to switch."
Microsoft has the LARGEST Apple team outside of Apple's HQ and even Microsoft states that MacOS X runs Office better than Windows.
"10) Its beautiful. That is personal preference. I honestly think some PC cases look great too."
But to make a PC look that cool you need to cut your case all up. Macs look cool without any mods. They're very innovative in their design and function.
ALL of the major recording studios Around (yes even skywalker ranch) has Macs for alot of their work.
"5) Burning DVDs. You can burn them on the PC too, sure their expensive iMovie is nice, but there are also nice programs for the PC if you want to spend that amount of money"
iMovie is a free software that comes preinstalled on EVERY mac.
"6) They have laptops. Hmm don't PCs?"
Yes but Apple laptops look better, are thinner and lighter and have a longer battery life.
"8) Macs can also use Microsoft Office! Well that certainly isn't an incentive. Give me a reason why Macs are better, not equal. Equal won't make me want to switch."
Microsoft has the LARGEST Apple team outside of Apple's HQ and even Microsoft states that MacOS X runs Office better than Windows.
"10) Its beautiful. That is personal preference. I honestly think some PC cases look great too."
But to make a PC look that cool you need to cut your case all up. Macs look cool without any mods. They're very innovative in their design and function.
a PC probably isn't very smart to a 50-year-old or a first time PC user, i admit it is complicated, but if you're just the least bit of a comp freak, you'll quickly find that you hate user-friendliness....i want to be able to control where stuff goes, configure and customize everything, etc. the mac campaigns have a negative effect on me.
Im talking about post EDITING and editing of movie dailies. Yes Avid just happens to make everything for every market, ie: Softimage XSI, DigiDesign Pro Tools, and various Avid video editing and compositing software, for post broadcast and consumers, not to mention video editing cards and systems, they make Mac and Win software/hardware, however like I said post editing is 50/50 it greatly depends on what studio it is, alot of the newer studios use Win systems, most of the older ones still use Macs.
Sony uses Avid Win2000 systems and software. Ice Age was edited on Win2000 systems(it was also animated on Win2000 systems). 24 does post editing and special effects on Win2000 systems.
Sony uses Avid Win2000 systems and software. Ice Age was edited on Win2000 systems(it was also animated on Win2000 systems). 24 does post editing and special effects on Win2000 systems.
cmdrdredd
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2001
- 27,052
- 357
- 126
but that doesn't matter. Monster's Inc, Toy story (1 and 2), A Bugs Life and EVERY Pixar film was done on a Mac. Lucas arts also uses macs for ALOT of his video and almost 98% of his sound editing and cuting.
It was said before that we can say with complete confidence that 95% of all Feature Films were cut on a Mac.
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