Why do people buy "Apple" computers?

[mjolnir2k]

Hi,
I am curious about what makes people buy Apple computers (aside from the fact that they are the BEST looking computers I have ever seen and their monitors make me drool like a pavlovian dog)?

It seems odd that in an age of 6 month (or less) extinction plateaus on CPU speed, that people still would pony up a considerable amount of $$ for "old" technology (eg. 1.25 ghz CPU's).

explain the benefits of this platform, I just can't fathom it.

ps. What is the deal with them always using a twin cpu (The new G4 uses twin 1.25 ghz chips)? Is this marketing b/c they think people will consider that 2.5 ghz of processing power?

Not a flame war plz. Just curious as I know little of the Apple mystique.

 

[BD231]

Didn't you know?, people buy them so they can say their computers are better than the PC!!

 

[FrustratedUser]

This must be thread #76437823843632847 on this subject.

I am sure people have their reasons to buy them. OSX rocks btw.

 

[Sunner]

I'd love to get one if only they weren't so friggin expensive, if money didn't matter I'd definately pick one up.
Even though Im not a fulltime user, the time I've spent with OS-X has definately convinced me that it's the best workstation OS around overall, and the computers are pretty damn smooth overall.

Another case where I'd definately considder a Mac would be if someone computer illiterate was about to buy a computer, just for the usual surfing, wordprocessing, etc.
One of the new iMac's would be perfect, looks nice, quiet, uses little space, extremely user friendly, and since Apple controls the entire platform, driver issue and such are minimal.

Aside from the lackluster performance the only downside is the price, but the iMac's aren't bad in that department either.
And most people don't need a whole lot of performance either, so for those people they make perfect sense.

 

[CraigRT]

OSX is fairly nice.. I don't even mind it... but the hardware itself, is not as good as PC.. which really sucks
if you could put OSX on a PC, youd have a fun machine... but the MAC hardware is just not as fast.. from what I have seen.. we do have a bunch of MAC's here where I work, and I am not impressed with their "speed"

the OSX like i said though, is pretty nifty.

 

[Smilin]

Ok, for the record: I don't own an apple and it's unlikely that I ever will simple because of a lack of compatibility/software with the Wintel dominated industry. I'm a hardcore PC gamer, I build my own computers and all that.

That said, apples are better computers, period. They are more stable, easier to use and generally just user friendly. Many of the innovations that we think are neato have existed for years on macs. They were doing 'plug and play' networking, software power management and voice recognition back in the 386 days. The way they can do this is by making the hardware and software proprietary and controlling how it's used. They don't have to suffer with compatibility issues like we do. If you want raw power, get a Wintel. If you just want to get something done, get a mac.

*** There is no way to really explain why they are better, you just have to use one for a bit to understand. ***

As for dual cpu's - that's just a way to compensate for the lackluster performance of their motorola chips.

 

[ptw]

Yes--as Sunner mentioned, it's appealing because since Apple controls it all, everything usually works together MUCH better than on PC's (and simpler to use as well). The downside, of course, is that you have a lot less choice on original configurations and upgrades. For a lot of consumers, this doesn't really matter.

The other thing, of course, is appearance. Look at cars--what percentage of a car-buying decision is for the looks? After you've figured out the price-range and size of vehicle you need, I'd say that the majority of the purchase decision is for appearance. Let's face it--people like pretty things.

 

[thorin]

Originally posted by: mjolnir2k
Not a flame war plz.

Right like that was gonna work. May as well have just put up a big sign "Insert match here".

Thorin

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: thorin

Originally posted by: mjolnir2k
Not a flame war plz.

Right like that was gonna work. May as well have just put up a big sign "Insert match here".

Thorin

It's worked so far, no?

But I can't deny that I feel less than comfident it will last long...unfortunately...

 

[mjolnir2k]

Good info. And Yes, it is possible to have an intelligent discussion about competing platforms without resorting to flame wars!

So the OS/X is really the draw for a Mac then (plus the afore mentioned good looks of the system). Definitely a good selling point to have a unified driver platform as I (and every other PC user) have certainly had my share of frustrating driver issues.

Now we just need them to partner with AMD / Intel on a "real" cpu and get some upgraded performance, as they are pretty handicapped with the Motorola offerings.

I would love to play with the OS, maybe it's time to head over to the graphics dept. for some play time : )

(*note: Would sell my family into slavery for the 22" cinema screen!!)

 

[Blues X]

I work in a university chemistry department, and many of our faculty and staff use Apples. I think that's mainly because Apple did a lot of work supporting the education market years ago. I remember when I was younger, the first color computer I played with was an Apple IIe (if I remember correctly) at the home of an aunt and uncle who were school teachers.

The people that have Apples love them. They are easier to use than PC's, in general. Personally, I hate using a one-button mouse.

And OS X is pretty cool. Imagine if your PC came with Apache server software pre-installed, and used a Unix-based system.

But some are getting tired of having to search for software, and also the higher prices compared to what you would get with a PC for the same $$. So I have seen some faculty beginning to make the switch from Apples to PCs.

I think it's mainly an apples vs. oranges kind of thing (no pun intended). Different people just like different set-ups. My step-grandfather loves his Cadillacs. Myself, I'd prefer a Subaru Impreza WRX over a caddy.

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: IHateRequiredNicknames
Apple did a lot of work supporting the education market years ago.

Apple has never produced a computer that competed well on price/performance. In very limited cases, they were tied or slightly in the lead in performance (on limited benchmarks), but their computers were often 2-3 times the price of the PC. However Apple did a major education campaign. They gave huge discounts to schools, and had deals with HyVee or Campbell's soup where turning in receipts or can labels would have Apple give free computers to schools. With all these free or cheap Apples in the schools, it became more expensive to include PCs (since then they would need to hire two technicians - one for the Apples and one for the PCs). That campaign was a huge success and education became nearly entirely Apple users. Apple's idea for this: if the students grow up learning on an Apple, then they'd be more likely to buy an Apple at 2-3 times the price. The problem is it was the parents buying their kids computers, not the kids. Parents saw a PC in the local store for $1000 or a Mac for $3000. Very quickly the PC became dominant. Sure there are a few people still left in the 'dark ages', unwilling to give PCs an honest try, and that is what Apple hangs on to for survival. Even schools have been coming around. When I was in high school I had a huge debate with the teachers saying that they should teach on PCs since that is what the majority of homes/businesses use, but they refused to listen and my high school was 95% Apple. Today (10 years later) I don't think there is an Apple left in my high school. Why teach kids something that they won't likely use when cheaper PCs will be very useful?

Other reasons why people buy Apple:
*** Thinking that it is the best OS ever. Every single version of the Apple OS has been hailed as the best OS ever, even when they made the major switch to Unix it didn't change their tone. A 100% completely different OS and it still is the best ever. Im not saying that OS X is bad, but it just seems odd that no matter how many changes they make, the next version is always the best OS ever.
*** Absurd benchmarks. They used to have tons of links on their website to a "benchmark" showing that their most expensive dual 1.25 GHz G4 with maximum memory was 90% faster than a 2.53 GHz P4 in Photoshop. Yet they failed to include important details: did the P4 have SDRAM or RDRAM, did the P4 have enough memory (probably the major reason of their results), which filters of Photoshop did they use (were they only the ones that were Apple optimized), why didn't they compare to a dual Xeon, why didn't they use the faster 2.8 GHz P4 available at the time? Do a quick search and at the very same time Apple was reporting that result other independant sites showed the P4 dominated the dual G4 in every single benchmark, even Photoshop. Why the disparity- basically since Apple was trying hard to mislead. I looked quickly now, and couldn't find a single benchmark comparing a G4 to a P4 anymore on Apple's website.
*** Lets look at their top 10 reasons to switch:
1) It just works. Remember their commercial about drivers ruining Christmas? Well look here at a link on their home page. Apple is requesting their users to download a DVD driver so that they avoid using media that "may permanently damage the drive". Gee if it just works without needing to download drivers, why such an ominous warning?
2) It doesn't crash. I've worked on both types of computers. Honestly I'd say they crash evenly (actually my school Apple/Macs crashed more frequently, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt and pretend that their tech person had them set up poorly).
3) Best in digital music. Yes the iPod is great, but what does that have to do with Apple computers? Does the apple sound card sound better? Do their speakers produce better sound? I doubt there is a major difference in sound from either type of computer when using the same quality parts.
4) Digital photography. Now c'mon, PCs can work with photography too.
5) Burning DVDs. You can burn them on the PC too, sure their expensive iMovie is nice, but there are also nice programs for the PC if you want to spend that amount of money.
6) They have laptops. Hmm don't PCs?
7) It is built for the internet. Well I don't think you can buy a PC anymore that can't use the Internet.
8) Macs can also use Microsoft Office! Well that certainly isn't an incentive. Give me a reason why Macs are better, not equal. Equal won't make me want to switch.
9) Macs use the same network cards as PCs. See my comment for #8.
10) Its beautiful. That is personal preference. I honestly think some PC cases look great too.

 

[BobTheHallucinatingCow]

Apple have the luxury to be able to knit things together in ways that Windows boxes can't.

If Apple see something they like they can just say I want that and put it in there with hardware and software support from day one. PC makers have to make sure that they get support from Micorsoft for software and then Intel, AMD and VIA before anything can properly take off. That's why Apple got USB first, i've got USB ports on a machine from 1996 but MS didn't support USB in any real sense until Win98.

It's the same with Wireless LAN, Firewire and a host of other highly useful features that just make a user's life that bit simpler and tasks more of a joy. It's possible to do most things a Mac can do just as easily on a PC but it's probably not going to be fully integrated out of the box.

In response to dullard, there are musicians who use PCs but the majority either do or would prefer to use Macs because the Mac is a very mature workstation in the Audio and Visual fields. A serious musician will not use an internal soundcard due to noise issues (interference from EM radiation) and therefore the Macs seemless use of Firewire lets them get on with their job much faster and with less waiting for Input and Output of peripherals. Also in a sound production environment noisy PC fans are not enviable, whereas the iMac with it's fanless operation is considered to be a very good option.

This is just one situation where a Mac makes sense and there are equally valid arguments in the fields of Image manipulation, desktop publishing and grapahics design.

Luckily I don't do any of these things because I couldn't afford a Mac if I sold both kidneys!

 

[naddicott]

I have an old apple laptop for my productive work, and a P4 system I built last summer for my gaming (the laptop stopped being 'adequate' for gaming after Diablo 2).

Even with OS X running on a 333mhz G3, I don't notice the 'less powerful' for the things I do (internet, e-mail, documents, small programming projects). Sure if I put my Warcraft3 CD in there it would choke along at 5fps or something, but that's what my budget gaming system is for. I can't imagine a non-gamer noticing anything slow about any model in the current Mac lineup.

I would still heartily reccomend a new mac to anyone who doesn't need a computer for gaming. In fact I've casually talked various friends into buying 3 iBooks and a LCD iMac because I wanted to stay their friend and not turn into their IT department. One who had previously been asking me a question every week about her Dell laptop until it ultimately died, has taken to OS X painlessly and has had to ask for my help once in about 2 years.

I can't predict the future, but I hope Apple stays around for a long, long time. They've rarely been the primary player in the overall computer field (only education and creative fields come to mind), but they've always had a strong influence on the industry's development.

 

[Flatline]

I am basically a Linux user at this point, although I do still use Windows when I want to do some gaming (I should probably act my age, but then I'd bore myself to death and have to kick my own ass). I was actually kind of encouraged by Apple's move to a 'nix-based OS, but that isn't enough to get me to spend the $$$ on their (slower) hardware. I think it's mostly a matter of personal preference.


The bottom line seems to be that Apple machines "just work".

Of course, they don't have to support a nearly infinite number of hardware configurations like Linux distributions or Windows.
Then there's the fact that there is less software available for Macs than for 'nix or 'doze.

I'm pretty sure that Windows or pretty much any Linux distro would "just work" if the OS manufacturer controlled all the hardware and software for their machines.

OSX is pretty, but without that stranglehold on hardware and software, I'm sure it would be just as touchy as any other operating system; besides, KDE3 is pretty too (and you have more themes, if I'm not mistaken).

Having said that, for the most part Apple's machines do seem to work very well; you end up with less options, but that's the price you pay-it's just a trade-off.

I also agree that their aesthetics probably play a large part in the decision-making process.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: IHateRequiredNicknames
10) Its beautiful. That is personal preference. I honestly think some PC cases look great too.

You know what I find beautiful about a computer? Putting it together myself. Being able to customize it inside and out. You know why Civics are such a huge success in the aftermarket tuner market? Because there are so many parts available for it. Yeah, sure, I can upgrade a few things on an Apple, but my favorite thing that I'm able to do with my PC is get the parts I want. You know, I'm very glad that there are a number of people out there that think that Kingston makes the best RAM or Mushkin or Crucial do. I'm a huge fan of Corsair and I won't use anything else in a computer I build for myself. Antec vs. Enermax. The winner is? Whoever you choose. It doesn't matter. I chose Enermax, honestly, because I liked the deep blue color of their higher-end models (not their sky-blue ones... ew!). Every time someone asks me to build them a computer, I get to mix and match parts and build a completely different computer to suit their budget concerns. That's fun. That's the beauty I get from PCs. Putting the pieces together and seeing them actually work the very first time I hit the power button will never get old. Don't say that Macs are more "pretty" than PCs; beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I hope that your post doesn't start a flame war (though I'm sure it will), but I have to say that it's nice. You're absolutely right, as well. I'd never buy a Mac. The reason why is something that I want to add to your post above.

Everyone claims that Mac's OS is so easy, but those people were obviously taught how to use them. If they're so easy, then why don't I know a single person over 60 that owns one. These people didn't grow up with anything, they were brought into the computer revolution later in life. They gravitated towards what they could understand. I almost hesitate to say this because it seems bad, but I cannot honestly understand how Macs work at all. They confuse the hell out of me. I was in the computer lab at my alma mater (sp?), and I was just trying to scan pictures onto a disk. Having had previous experience with Macs, I had some knowledge of how they worked. However, after scanning a few pictures, I realized I had been scanning to .tiff files that were far too big for my 100MB zip disk. All I had to do was erase them. That's it. Couldn't do it. Sat there for half an hour trying; couldn't do it. I put the files in that damned trash can (for the record, I hate Microsoft's Recycling Bin as well, and don't use it), but that did nothing. Disk was still out of space. So I thought, "Hey, if I put them in the trash can, maybe I need to tell it to actually "take out the trash" as it were. How do I do that? No idea. Tried ejecting it to force it to finish with it before ejecting; didn't work. Tried the delete key (go figure!); didn't do anything at all. Tried everything. Eventually a PC opened up (we had 2 Macs with scanners and 2 PCs with scanners and guess which ones are always occupied), and I could delete the files with ease, also known as the delete key.

Maybe some like them better, and that's fine, but unless you've just got money burning a hole in your pocket and are dying to get rid of it, there just isn't any justification I can find for using Macs. I also wanted to mention that most problems with any computer are because of user error, not OS problems. Macs don't inherently make people smarter. Unless they get a robotic hand that will stop some guy to stop trying to force his VGA cable into his parallel port, you're not going to get rid of user error.

 

[mjolnir2k]

Originally posted by: BobTheHallucinatingCow
Apple have the luxury to be able to knit things together in ways that Windows boxes can't.

If Apple see something they like they can just say I want that and put it in there with hardware and software support from day one. PC makers have to make sure that they get support from Micorsoft for software and then Intel, AMD and VIA before anything can properly take off. That's why Apple got USB first, i've got USB ports on a machine from 1996 but MS didn't support USB in any real sense until Win98.

It's the same with Wireless LAN, Firewire and a host of other highly useful features that just make a user's life that bit simpler and tasks more of a joy. It's possible to do most things a Mac can do just as easily on a PC but it's probably not going to be fully integrated out of the box.

In response to dullard, there are musicians who use PCs but the majority either do or would prefer to use Macs because the Mac is a very mature workstation in the Audio and Visual fields. A serious musician will not use an internal soundcard due to noise issues (interference from EM radiation) and therefore the Macs seemless use of Firewire lets them get on with their job much faster and with less waiting for Input and Output of peripherals. Also in a sound production environment noisy PC fans are not enviable, whereas the iMac with it's fanless operation is considered to be a very good option.

This is just one situation where a Mac makes sense and there are equally valid arguments in the fields of Image manipulation, desktop publishing and grapahics design.

Luckily I don't do any of these things because I couldn't afford a Mac if I sold both kidneys!

Side Note: BobTheHallucinatingCow broke his/her cherry in my thread....Post #1! Welcome Bob, now your days will end up becoming an endless session of Anand surfing and hitting the "Refresh" button just like the rest of us!

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Ilmater

I hope that your post doesn't start a flame war (though I'm sure it will), but I have to say that it's nice. You're absolutely right, as well. I'd never buy a Mac. The reason why is something that I want to add to your post above.

I wasn't trying to do a flame war, but just analyze the reasons that people buy Apples from a consumer standpoint. Sure there are niche markets where they are great - but that doesn't justify the general public for buying them.

Apple used to use exclusively proprietary hardware. You couldn't really do a thing to upgrade them, and in the limited cases where you could, you had to scour the marketplace for Apple compatable hardware. Slowly over time, Apple switched from proprietary hardware to widely available standard hardware. About the only proprietary thing left is the processor (ok and the motherboard to handle the processor). I would strongly support Apple to make that one last leap - use non-proprietary processors. That would make Apple a software company. They can provide that great, easy to use OS for everyone then - not just the 5% of users who have expensive and slower Macs. Let Apple do what they do best: OS software.

Everyone claims that Mac's OS is so easy, but those people were obviously taught how to use them.

Exactly. Take an Apple user and put him in front of a PC and he will get things done, but it will be slow and akward. Put a PC user in front of a Mac he will get things done, but it will be slow and akward. One isn't necessarilly easier than the other - just you are comfortable with what you are used to. Take an American driver and put him in an English car on a road in England. It is akward for that driver. Is one car better than the other? No - just two different was of doing things.

 

[Atlantean]

My uncle has like 4 of them and he says they are great for video editing and stuff like that.

 

[imgod2u]

Are there reasons that are feasible to buy an Apple? Sure? Is that why most people do? Probably not. One phrase pretty much sums it up, "Owning a Mac is like being high for a rich spoiled yuppie. You will magically be transported into a lukewarm, heavenly, Ikea-like place where nothing goes wrong and everything is perfect. Plus it matches your Ikea-incarnated room." Is it a myth? Yes (that's for a different thread). Do people buy into it? Ohhhhh do they........

 

[kgraeme]

A bunch of little things make the difference. For instance, how do you type a ® (Registerd trademark) character?

On the Mac: Option-R
On the PC: Alt-0174

Which is easier to remember? That's one little detail out of thousands.

Given that, I used to be a Mac user since their introduction but now with the introductions of both Windows XP and Mac OS X I've been happy to switch to Windows. Mac OS X is still significantly rough around the edges in useability features that were part of the old Mac OS that weren't included OS X. I don't have a personal need for a unix desktop. And overall cost of ownership, considering the price of system upgrades on top of the price of the computer, makes Macs overbearingly expensive. And I like to play games.

 

[newbiepcuser]

Its easy to use and it works

These people can help you out. Testimony that you can trust. <-----link

 

[Flatline]

Personally, if I want to run an aesthetically pleasing 'nix OS, I'll put together a nice PC and run SuSE, Mandrake, or pretty much any other linux distro (with KDE or Gnome) on it for about a quarter of the price.

Heck, I can even do the transparent menu thing

That is just a personal preference, though.

 

[KF]

Apple 6360 Mac w/ Monitor $80

Apple 7600 Mac w/ Monitor $120

I don't know if you could put a 40G IDE HD in these and make them semi-usable or not. (Anyone know?) Maybe people could get an idea of what MACs are like even with these obsolete refurbs.

The reasons to like MACs have been presented pretty well. If they were in the same price range, Apple would be picking up a big chunk of market share.

Why are MACs expensive and PCs cheap? Lack of direct competition. Apple really contracts out everything to the same factories that make PC electronics. If anything, their manufacturing costs are cheaper than ready built PCs like Dell.

Their OS is a UNIX, like Solaris on Sun, and like Linux on the PC. Unix is a CPU independent OS written in a higher level language (C), Therefore you should be able to run Unix programs on the MAC, unless they have rigged their OS not to. Their GUI should be an application that runs on Unix, just like KDE runs on Linux. If you are following this, then the MAC OS can be made to run on PCs, just like Linux will run on PCs, and programs for the MAC OS would run on a PC. Unfortunately Apple would run into the same problem Linux has. You need driver support from the individual hardware manufacturers.

But there is nothing inherently making the MAC significantly more expensive than a PC. If they didn't have such abysmally low sales figures, the development costs would be distributed over a larger number of computers, and the price would be in the PC range. Ever since the original MAC, Apple has always been one step behind where they needed to be to accomplish this objective, which cannot work in a free market. This is because a big chunk of the top Apple leadership are elitist snobs who can afford anything they want regardless of the price, and who cannot understand that the funds average people will allocate to a computer is low.

I think Apple just sticks with Motorola because it is easier to market a mystique that way. They should just develop a MAC PC and start a MAC PC validation progam to gradually encompass more "valdated" PC hardware, guaranteed to work with their OS and their PC.

 

[mjolnir2k]

Originally posted by: kgraeme
A bunch of little things make the difference. For instance, how do you type a ® (Registerd trademark) character?

On the Mac: Option-R
On the PC: Alt-0174

.

Been using my PC for a long time and I didn't know that bit of info! Always wondered how to make the little ® sign, but never bothered to ask. Any other little tidbits?

-Mj

EDIT: NM, Self educated...Alt Codes