Why do parents let kids go to school looking like slobs?

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Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
What a bunch of intolerarnt Nazi's here.

My support of school uniforms is backed up by numerous studies demonstrating the benefits.

The response has been generally ad hominem attacks, grandstanding, and pontification.

Can't you do better?
ROFL you bitch about ad hominems, grandstanding and pontification after calling your detractors "intolerarnt [sic] Nazi's[sic]!"

Your ONE study has already been countered, and you have continued to dodge, derail or deflect any question that is sent your way.
You still have failed to answer my question of "How do they way other kids dress affect YOUR child's education?"
Especially considering these kids don't even go to the same school, it is madness.
Your argument "I pay taxes, so I can dictate how it is run" as already been killed by numerous counterexamples, which you conveniently skirted by claiming they were irrelevant.

You have made no convincing argument.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: Jzero
What a bunch of intolerarnt Nazi's here.

My support of school uniforms is backed up by numerous studies demonstrating the benefits.

The response has been generally ad hominem attacks, grandstanding, and pontification.

Can't you do better?
ROFL you bitch about ad hominems, grandstanding and pontification after calling your detractors "intolerarnt [sic] Nazi's[sic]!"

Your ONE study has already been countered, and you have continued to dodge, derail or deflect any question that is sent your way.
You still have failed to answer my question of "How do they way other kids dress affect YOUR child's education?"
Especially considering these kids don't even go to the same school, it is madness.
Your argument "I pay taxes, so I can dictate how it is run" as already been killed by numerous counterexamples, which you conveniently skirted by claiming they were irrelevant.

You have made no convincing argument.
Par for the course. Rip never let facts get in the way of a good argument.

 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
...and in the end you are just taking away liberties, but it doesn't matter, kids aren't people.[/

If you want to expres yourself, do it on your own time or go to a private school where slovenliness is tolerated, not in a public institution.

There is a law in Pittsburgh that forbids wearing religious sysmbols like crosses or yarmulkes.

Wearing your pants around your thighs apparently is okay though.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: Jzero
What a bunch of intolerarnt Nazi's here.

My support of school uniforms is backed up by numerous studies demonstrating the benefits.

The response has been generally ad hominem attacks, grandstanding, and pontification.

Can't you do better?
ROFL you bitch about ad hominems, grandstanding and pontification after calling your detractors "intolerarnt [sic] Nazi's[sic]!"

Your ONE study has already been countered, and you have continued to dodge, derail or deflect any question that is sent your way.
You still have failed to answer my question of "How do they way other kids dress affect YOUR child's education?"
Especially considering these kids don't even go to the same school, it is madness.
Your argument "I pay taxes, so I can dictate how it is run" as already been killed by numerous counterexamples, which you conveniently skirted by claiming they were irrelevant.

You have made no convincing argument.
Par for the course. Rip never let facts get in the way of a good argument.

Good one!

And the facts are?
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
By the way, I cited numerous studies:

Some interesting studies:

An Examination of the Effect of School Uniforms

on Student Achievement and Behavior

Having students wear uniforms has become a hot issue in many communities across the nation (Loesch, 1995). The issue of implementing a school uniform policy has both strong supporters and opposition. Those in favor of uniforms claim there are many advantages to instituting them: improved scholastic performance, student security, student discipline, and school morale (Caruso, 1996). Those who object to this idea claim that such a policy violates the First Amendment and that educators and schools will not see the dramatic effects its advocates claim (Caruso, 1996). Should school uniforms be required in order to better student achievement and behavior?

School uniforms seem to be making a difference in the public schools all over the country. One example would be the Long Beach Unified School District where students are required to wear uniforms. According to district teachers, the uniforms have constructed a better classroom/learning setting by curbing gang tension and the polarization associated with name brand clothing (Caruso, 1996). Research by Behling (1994) indicates that clothing can create a "halo effect," whereby a student in uniform is seen as better behaved, a high academic achiever, and someone with academic potential, particularly when they wear a "dress uniform," i.e., pants or skirt with a blazer.

A California school has found a successful formula for making uniforms into symbols of school pride (Loesch, 1995). School uniforms will level the playing field in classrooms by removing the messages of social and economic status carried in apparel (Dressed for Survival, 1994). However, uniforms tailored to individual schools may increase in value a school's sense of community and students' self-esteem (Dressed for Survival, 1994). School uniforms aim to improve school climate and reflect a sense of pride and affiliation.

Among the public school systems with a required uniform policy can document success by the 83,000 - student Long Beach District in California (Elam and Rose, 1996). This study by Elam and Rose (1996) report that assault and battery cases in grades K - 8 dropped 34% in two years, physical fights dropped 51%, and suspensions dropped 32%. Behling (1994) states that it is evident that school uniforms, or a uniform style of dress positively influence the perception of school - related behavior by both peers and teachers.

Clothing influences the way students see themselves (Caruso, 1996). Student benefits include enhanced self-image, improved academic indicator ratings, and increased participation (Hoffler--Riddick and Lassiter, 1996). A study by Hoffler--Riddick and Lassiter (1996) shows school benefits which include a dramatic decrease in discipline infractions, improved attendance, and an improvement in the overall instructional climate.

 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
This is ONE study, you have ALREADY posted it, it contains NO AUTHOR, NO PUBLICATION, NO REFERENCE TO THE PRIMARY SOURCE.

Edit: In fact this is NOT even a study, this is the summary of some kid's research paper!

We can't even evaluate the veracity of the "study" you have posted.
Where are the OTHER studies?
Why have you STILL not answered my question?

HOW DOES THE WAY A CHILD DRESSES AT ANOTHER SCHOOL AFFECT THE QUALITY OF YOUR CHILD'S EDUCATION?
 

NuclearFusi0n

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2001
7,028
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin

If you want to expres yourself, do it on your own time or go to a private school where slovenliness is tolerated, not in a public institution.

There is a law in Pittsburgh that forbids wearing religious sysmbols like crosses or yarmulkes.

Wearing your pants around your thighs apparently is okay though.

So of ALL places, it's OK to censor public institutions. Sounds GREAT TO ME!
 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
2
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: MrCodeDude
Hah, earlier today my mom was commenting on how this guy was sagging. I was like, "It doesn't affect you, so who cares?" She said it was in a manner that it "offended her." I told her to get a life, the kid isn't hurting anyone and that if it offends her so much she shouldn't be looking at where kids have their pants at."
-- mrcodedude

Do you know where this "fashion" came from?

In jail, inmates are not allowed to wear a belt so their pants tend to sag.

Great role models.

Well then, let's just start arresting everyone who doesn't have their pants jacked up to Urkel-Approved level! That'll cut down crime in a few years!

- M4H

Why don't you wear yours around your ankles? Maybe you'll trip and fall on your head and remove yourself from the gene pool.

RIP - Riprorin's sarcasm meter. :p

- M4H

Just foolin' with you.

Translation - "I took the bait like a sixteen-pound rainbow trout." :D

- M4H
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: Jzero
This is ONE study, you have ALREADY posted it, it contains NO AUTHOR, NO PUBLICATION, NO REFERENCE TO THE PRIMARY SOURCE.

Edit: In fact this is NOT even a study, this is the summary of some kid's research paper!

We can't even evaluate the veracity of the "study" you have posted.
Where are the OTHER studies?
Why have you STILL not answered my question?

HOW DOES THE WAY A CHILD DRESSES AT ANOTHER SCHOOL AFFECT THE QUALITY OF YOUR CHILD'S EDUCATION?

Look at the STUDIES above. Student performance effects all of society. That's why societies place so much emphasis on education.

Why wouldn't it effect my children?
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin

If you want to expres yourself, do it on your own time or go to a private school where slovenliness is tolerated, not in a public institution.

There is a law in Pittsburgh that forbids wearing religious sysmbols like crosses or yarmulkes.

Wearing your pants around your thighs apparently is okay though.

So of ALL places, it's OK to censor public institutions. Sounds GREAT TO ME!

Uhmmm. There are a lot of things that are not tolerated in public or in public institutions.

That's why people are in jails.



 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
2
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin

If you want to expres yourself, do it on your own time or go to a private school where slovenliness is tolerated, not in a public institution.

There is a law in Pittsburgh that forbids wearing religious sysmbols like crosses or yarmulkes.

Wearing your pants around your thighs apparently is okay though.

So of ALL places, it's OK to censor public institutions. Sounds GREAT TO ME!

Uhmmm. There are a lot of things that are not tolerated in public or in public institutions.

That's why people are in jails.

Censorship != lawbreaking.

- M4H
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
By the way, I cited numerous studies:

Some interesting studies:

An Examination of the Effect of School Uniforms

on Student Achievement and Behavior

Having students wear uniforms has become a hot issue in many communities across the nation (Loesch, 1995). The issue of implementing a school uniform policy has both strong supporters and opposition. Those in favor of uniforms claim there are many advantages to instituting them: improved scholastic performance, student security, student discipline, and school morale (Caruso, 1996). Those who object to this idea claim that such a policy violates the First Amendment and that educators and schools will not see the dramatic effects its advocates claim (Caruso, 1996). Should school uniforms be required in order to better student achievement and behavior?

School uniforms seem to be making a difference in the public schools all over the country. One example would be the Long Beach Unified School District where students are required to wear uniforms. According to district teachers, the uniforms have constructed a better classroom/learning setting by curbing gang tension and the polarization associated with name brand clothing (Caruso, 1996). Research by Behling (1994) indicates that clothing can create a "halo effect," whereby a student in uniform is seen as better behaved, a high academic achiever, and someone with academic potential, particularly when they wear a "dress uniform," i.e., pants or skirt with a blazer.

A California school has found a successful formula for making uniforms into symbols of school pride (Loesch, 1995). School uniforms will level the playing field in classrooms by removing the messages of social and economic status carried in apparel (Dressed for Survival, 1994). However, uniforms tailored to individual schools may increase in value a school's sense of community and students' self-esteem (Dressed for Survival, 1994). School uniforms aim to improve school climate and reflect a sense of pride and affiliation.

Among the public school systems with a required uniform policy can document success by the 83,000 - student Long Beach District in California (Elam and Rose, 1996). This study by Elam and Rose (1996) report that assault and battery cases in grades K - 8 dropped 34% in two years, physical fights dropped 51%, and suspensions dropped 32%. Behling (1994) states that it is evident that school uniforms, or a uniform style of dress positively influence the perception of school - related behavior by both peers and teachers.

Clothing influences the way students see themselves (Caruso, 1996). Student benefits include enhanced self-image, improved academic indicator ratings, and increased participation (Hoffler--Riddick and Lassiter, 1996). A study by Hoffler--Riddick and Lassiter (1996) shows school benefits which include a dramatic decrease in discipline infractions, improved attendance, and an improvement in the overall instructional climate.
As I've pointed out already, the studies out there all contradict each other. Look, I can post things that are completely contrary to your position!

In 1995, a year after implementing the first mandatory districtwide uniform policy in the country, the Long Beach Unified School District collected empirical data on the effects of uniforms on the school environment. The findings suggested that the district?s schools were safer; however, the findings did not offer clear evidence that uniforms decreased violence (Wilson 1999).

A 1997 study, ?Effects of Student Uniforms on Attendance, Behavior Problems, Substance Use and Academic Achievement,? empirically tested claims made by uniform advocates, using tenth-grade data from the ?National Educational Longitudinal Study of 1988.? Researchers David Brunsma and Kerry Rockquemore succinctly stated: ?Our findings indicate that student uniforms have no direct effect on substance use, behavioral problems or attendance? (Brunsma and Rockquemore 1998).

In 1997, Sharon Shamburger Pate investigated two Florida school districts with mandatory uniform policies. In ?The Influence of a Mandatory School Uniform Policy,? she reported mixed results: a significant improvement in academic achievement in elementary-school students and no significant decrease in discipline infractions among middle-school students (Pate 1999).

A 1997 policy study, ?School Violence Prevention: Strategies To Keep Schools Safe,? conducted by the Reason Public Policy Institute, examined how uniform policies fit into a school district?s overall safety and reform program. Researchers Alexander Volokh and Lisa Snell concluded that no single strategy to curb school violence and promote reform will work. Each district, each school is unique. The ideal violence-prevention policy will differ from school to school (in White 2000).

In 1999, a report titled ?Evaluation of School Uniform Policy at John Adams and Truman Middle Schools for Albuquerque Public Schools,? by Deborah Elder, concluded: ?The uniform policy is one of several changes that have occurred in the two schools. While the impetus for positive change in the climate and academic focus on the school includes the uniform policy, the changes cannot be attributable solely [author?s italics] to the uniform policy. However, positive changes have indeed occurred, and the uniform policy is one of several variables that have caused the changes? (Elder 1999).

Abstract: Examined 10th-grade data from the 1988 National Educational Longitudinal Study to investigate the effects of school uniforms on student attendance, behavior problems, substance use, and academic achievement. Data from public, private, and Catholic schools indicated that uniforms had no direct effect on substance use, attendance, or behavior, and a negative effect on academic achievement. (SM)

The Effects of Student Uniforms on Attendance, Behavior Problems,Substance Use, and Academic Achievement: David L. Brunsma and Kerry A. Rockquemore Recent discourse on public school reform has focused on mandatory uniform policies. Proponents of such reform measures emphasize the benefits of student uniforms on specific behavioral and academic outcomes. This research empirically tests the claims made by uniform advocates using 10th grade data from The National Educational Longitudinal Study of 1988. Our findings indicate that student uniforms have no direct effect on substance use, behavioral problems or attendance. A negative effect of uniforms on student academic achievement was found. These findings are contrary to current discourse on student uniforms. We conclude that uniform policies may indirectly affect school environment and student outcomes by providing a visible and public symbol of commitment to school improvement and reform.

There are plenty more where that came from. Just because you agree with the studies supporting uniforms doesn't make them the "correct" conclusions.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Look at the STUDIES above. Student performance effects all of society. That's why societies place so much emphasis on education.
There is no study! A couple of MLA references in your child's sophomore year research paper are useless. A couple of author's names and a title of book are not verifiable.
Perhaps you should take a research methods class at your local community college so you can learn just what a study is and how it is properly carried out.

Why wouldn't it effect my children?
You can't be serious. Kids in ANOTHER school system have ZERO impact on YOUR children's education. If the kids in the public school were all getting 4.0 GPAs and 1600 SATs, YOUR CHILD would STILL be doing THE SAME in his/her OTHER SCHOOL.

Answer the question or admit that you have no argument.
 

NuclearFusi0n

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2001
7,028
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Uhmmm. There are a lot of things that are not tolerated in public or in public institutions.
such as?

Ask mommy or daddy.
Good job answering the question.

Use your brain and don't waste my time and you won't get sarcasm.
Still waiting on an answer....
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: Jzero
Look at the STUDIES above. Student performance effects all of society. That's why societies place so much emphasis on education.
There is no study! A couple of MLA references in your child's sophomore year research paper are useless. A couple of author's names and a title of book are not verifiable.
Perhaps you should take a research methods class at your local community college so you can learn just what a study is and how it is properly carried out.

Why wouldn't it effect my children?
You can't be serious. Kids in ANOTHER school system have ZERO impact on YOUR children's education. If the kids in the public school were all getting 4.0 GPAs and 1600 SATs, YOUR CHILD would STILL be doing THE SAME in his/her OTHER SCHOOL.

Answer the question or admit that you have no argument.

I made my argument and I'll let it stand as is.

It's your right to agree or disagree.

Have a good day.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Uhmmm. There are a lot of things that are not tolerated in public or in public institutions.
such as?

Ask mommy or daddy.
Good job answering the question.

Use your brain and don't waste my time and you won't get sarcasm.
Still waiting on an answer....

Don't hold your breath partner.
 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
2
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Uhmmm. There are a lot of things that are not tolerated in public or in public institutions.
such as?

Ask mommy or daddy.
Good job answering the question.

Use your brain and don't waste my time and you won't get sarcasm.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

- M4H
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
I made my argument and I'll let it stand as is.

It's your right to agree or disagree.
You made no argument.
You failed to even answer a simple question.
Stop posting.

 

NuclearFusi0n

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2001
7,028
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Uhmmm. There are a lot of things that are not tolerated in public or in public institutions.
such as?

Ask mommy or daddy.
Good job answering the question.

Use your brain and don't waste my time and you won't get sarcasm.
Still waiting on an answer....

Don't hold your breath partner.
I've learned not to do that by reading your posts in this thread.

Oh wait, I can't learn; I'm not in uniform.