Why are people so insistant on 9/11 conspiracies?

[SampSon]

Originally posted by: scott

Hey noto12ious,

No serious discussion of real ideas happening with Number1, Ronstang, Brainonska511, SampSon, etc.

Relax, they're just baiting you for their entertainment now.

They're just playing with you for a laugh, that's all. Relax.

He hasn't posted anything worthy of "serious discussion", just more mindless conspiracy videos that have been circulating the internet like the endless rumors in mass emails. For example, the gas boycott and microsoft paying people to forward emails.

This was also cited by him or someone else as truth.

No, wait after seeing these videos and the same sites over and over I'm definitely sold on a theory of a controlled demolition... A controlled demolition has to be the only possible explanation for the collapse of the towers!

Another article posted refuting the conspiracy claims made about controlled demolition. Of course all of the conspiracy sites have written retaliatory articles to refute the popular mechanics article.

If you check out all the sites and "research papers" written on this paper, they all reference each other in cylical fashion. You have scientists from BYU (Steven E. Jones) referencing plaguepuppy.com and checktheevidence.com for serious scientific references. In fact Jones' paper, the 911reseach.wtc7.net site, and the five books written are the main sources cited. They all reference each other as to make you believe that they are all based on fact.

He even states in the abstract of his paper:
"Let?s start with the collapse of the 47-story WTC 7, which was never hit by a jet. I ask you to take a minute to look at the collapse of this building as a basis for discussion. "

Then there are other essays written that claim the images of the planes hitting the WTC towers were generated by classified holographic technology.

This article tears apart the "no planes" theory".

I find it hilarious that such a small group of scientists and journalists go to such lengths to create a conspiracy theory circle jerk. Any articles or papers written rarely, if ever, leave this small circle of participants. If thier findings were so compelling, why havn't more people picked up on it? Let me guess, it's another conspiracy, right?

In the end you can believe what you want. If these theories were so sound in their assertions than a lot more objective scientists would be jumping on the bandwagon to uncover exactly what is going on. Problem is that this isn't the case and the 911 conspiracy theories stay confined to a small group of people who keep pounding on the same limited and stretched data set they have. These theories have been reviewed by many of their peers in the scientific community and these peers have rejected the theories and some have decided to speak out against them.

Of course I'm sure there is a major conspiracy to keep any scientists or professional from participating in these conspiracy theories, in fear of them and their families disappearing from the face of the planet.

There are conspiracy theories for every step of the way. That's the only way to explain and defend their positions. There are conspiracy theories ranging from why the red sox took forever to win a world series to how flu shots are a mind control drug. So in the end that small group of conspiracy theorists and their tiny circle jerk data set can rant all they want, just like you, but it's not going to change a thing.

 

[raildogg]

I like the so-called conspiracy theory guys. At least they're not part of the mainstream and are actually doing some sort of research, for whatever purpose. Or for whatever motive.

When the 19 hijackers on 9/11 hijacked those 4 planes, two crashed into the WTC and 1 in the Pentagon and 1 was forced down in Pennsylvania. We could clearly hear the hijackers in the tapes, can't we? So we definately know that the terrorists did in fact hijack those planes. We found some IDs of the terrorists near the ruins of the WTC if I'm not mistaken. So they definately did crash the planes into the WTC.

It has been shown that as one floor fell on another, it sort of had a vertical effect, like dominos and the building fell. Maybe the stuff that was exploding inside was mistaken for something else? Maybe it was gas related? Oil? Oil that was leaking from the jets? Stuff falling? Debris?

Or maybe the firefighters mistakingly thought it was explosions, while it may be something else.

Tower 7 is more debatable and you would have more of a case, but even then, the evidence shows that the building did fall from the damage suffered from the WTC.

You would have more of a case with a conspiracy theory with the Pentagon attack. But there were famous people aboard that plane. I guess you guys can't account for that?

This post is a repetition because it is hard to find new content to debate the 9/11 attacks about.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: scott

Hey noto12ious,

No serious discussion of real ideas happening with Number1, Ronstang, Brainonska511, SampSon, etc.

Relax, they're just baiting you for their entertainment now.

They're just playing with you for a laugh, that's all. Relax.

He hasn't posted anything worthy of "serious discussion", just more mindless conspiracy videos that have been circulating the internet like the endless rumors in mass emails. For example, the gas boycott and microsoft paying people to forward emails.

This was also cited by him or someone else as truth.

No, wait after seeing these videos and the same sites over and over I'm definitely sold on a theory of a controlled demolition... A controlled demolition has to be the only possible explanation for the collapse of the towers!

Another article posted refuting the conspiracy claims made about controlled demolition. Of course all of the conspiracy sites have written retaliatory articles to refute the popular mechanics article.

If you check out all the sites and "research papers" written on this paper, they all reference each other in cylical fashion. You have scientists from BYU (Steven E. Jones) referencing plaguepuppy.com and checktheevidence.com for serious scientific references. In fact Jones' paper, the 911reseach.wtc7.net site, and the five books written are the main sources cited. They all reference each other as to make you believe that they are all based on fact.

He even states in the abstract of his paper:
"Let?s start with the collapse of the 47-story WTC 7, which was never hit by a jet. I ask you to take a minute to look at the collapse of this building as a basis for discussion. "

Then there are other essays written that claim the images of the planes hitting the WTC towers were generated by classified holographic technology.

This article tears apart the "no planes" theory".

I find it hilarious that such a small group of scientists and journalists go to such lengths to create a conspiracy theory circle jerk. Any articles or papers written rarely, if ever, leave this small circle of participants. If thier findings were so compelling, why havn't more people picked up on it? Let me guess, it's another conspiracy, right?

In the end you can believe what you want. If these theories were so sound in their assertions than a lot more objective scientists would be jumping on the bandwagon to uncover exactly what is going on. Problem is that this isn't the case and the 911 conspiracy theories stay confined to a small group of people who keep pounding on the same limited and stretched data set they have. These theories have been reviewed by many of their peers in the scientific community and these peers have rejected the theories and some have decided to speak out against them.

Of course I'm sure there is a major conspiracy to keep any scientists or professional from participating in these conspiracy theories, in fear of them and their families disappearing from the face of the planet.

There are conspiracy theories for every step of the way. That's the only way to explain and defend their positions. There are conspiracy theories ranging from why the red sox took forever to win a world series to how flu shots are a mind control drug. So in the end that small group of conspiracy theorists and their tiny circle jerk data set can rant all they want, just like you, but it's not going to change a thing.

Wow, superbly explained. I enjoyed reading your post very much. Well said.

 

[noto12ious]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: scott

Hey noto12ious,

No serious discussion of real ideas happening with Number1, Ronstang, Brainonska511, SampSon, etc.

Relax, they're just baiting you for their entertainment now.

They're just playing with you for a laugh, that's all. Relax.

He hasn't posted anything worthy of "serious discussion", just more mindless conspiracy videos that have been circulating the internet like the endless rumors in mass emails. For example, the gas boycott and microsoft paying people to forward emails.

This was also cited by him or someone else as truth.

No, wait after seeing these videos and the same sites over and over I'm definitely sold on a theory of a controlled demolition... A controlled demolition has to be the only possible explanation for the collapse of the towers!

Another article posted refuting the conspiracy claims made about controlled demolition. Of course all of the conspiracy sites have written retaliatory articles to refute the popular mechanics article.

If you check out all the sites and "research papers" written on this paper, they all reference each other in cylical fashion. You have scientists from BYU (Steven E. Jones) referencing plaguepuppy.com and checktheevidence.com for serious scientific references. In fact Jones' paper, the 911reseach.wtc7.net site, and the five books written are the main sources cited. They all reference each other as to make you believe that they are all based on fact.

He even states in the abstract of his paper:
"Let?s start with the collapse of the 47-story WTC 7, which was never hit by a jet. I ask you to take a minute to look at the collapse of this building as a basis for discussion. "

Then there are other essays written that claim the images of the planes hitting the WTC towers were generated by classified holographic technology.

This article tears apart the "no planes" theory".

I find it hilarious that such a small group of scientists and journalists go to such lengths to create a conspiracy theory circle jerk. Any articles or papers written rarely, if ever, leave this small circle of participants. If thier findings were so compelling, why havn't more people picked up on it? Let me guess, it's another conspiracy, right?

In the end you can believe what you want. If these theories were so sound in their assertions than a lot more objective scientists would be jumping on the bandwagon to uncover exactly what is going on. Problem is that this isn't the case and the 911 conspiracy theories stay confined to a small group of people who keep pounding on the same limited and stretched data set they have. These theories have been reviewed by many of their peers in the scientific community and these peers have rejected the theories and some have decided to speak out against them.

Of course I'm sure there is a major conspiracy to keep any scientists or professional from participating in these conspiracy theories, in fear of them and their families disappearing from the face of the planet.

There are conspiracy theories for every step of the way. That's the only way to explain and defend their positions. There are conspiracy theories ranging from why the red sox took forever to win a world series to how flu shots are a mind control drug. So in the end that small group of conspiracy theorists and their tiny circle jerk data set can rant all they want, just like you, but it's not going to change a thing.

It's a shame none of what you typed out explains the video clips I posted.
Again, go find something that refutes these clips that destroy the official government story:

Huge pre collapse explosions caught on audio...with smoke rising from the ground before collapse:
http://www.911blogger.com/files/video/911eyewitness_wtc1.wmv

Cheney was monitoring flight 77 (contrary to all government reports), and Mineta's testimony was omitted from all official records:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y&search=mineta

The official timeline has Cheney entering the bunker at 10 AM, however, Mineta's testimony (given under oath) places Cheney at the bunker at 9:20. The Pentagon, Capitol Hill, etc were NOT evacuated until AFTER the Pentagon was struck. Cheney's in trouble. The "orders" were never clarified by the 9/11 Commission.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Yossarian

Originally posted by: noto12ious
http://plaguepuppy.net/public_html/vide...floor26th_firefighter_high_quality.wmv

every once in a while I look at one of these pieces of "evidence" you produce and I don't see it proving a single thing.

i agree... this proves nothing. i mean, yeah, i don't really need any more proof to know that the administration was behing 9/11, but this video makes no sense... i watched it 3 times and finally decided that it's a pointless video clip that proves nothing.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage
And if you don't want to believe the fire fighters who agree with hearing the explosions, then try these Coumbia Univerisity seismographic records on for size:

The seismic record from Columbia University?s observatory in Palisades, NY (21 miles away) provides indisputable proof that massive explosions brought down those towers. At the precise moment the South Tower began collapsing, a 2.1 earthquake registered on the seismograph. At the precise moment the North Tower began collapsing, a 2.3 earthquake registered; however, as the buildings started to crumble these waves disappeared. The two ?spikes?on the seismograph, which both occurred at the exact instants the collapses began, are twenty times the amplitude, or more than 100 times the force of the other waves. If the buildings had simply collapsed, the largest jolts would have occurred when the massive debris struck the earth, not at the beginnings of the collapses. Seismologist Arthur Lerner-Lam of Columbia University stated, ?Only a small fraction of the energy from the collapsing towers was converted into ground motion. The ground shaking that resulted from the collapse of the towers was extremely small.? In other words, the collapsing did not cause 2.1 and 2.3 magnitude earthquakes. Furthermore, a ?sharp spike of short duration? is how underground nuclear explosions register on seismographs. Underground explosions, where the steel columns meet Manhattans granite would account for both the demolition-style implosions and these ?spikes? on the seismograph. Another seismologist at the Palisades observatory, Won Young Kim said the 1993 truck bomb did not even register on their seismographs because the explosion was ?not coupled? to the ground. Imagine the magnitude of explosions it would take to register the two earthquakes, when the truck bomb didn?t even show up.

I've sent you a PM in regards to your claim here. Everything in the above block is very questionable and seems to contradict what Arthur Lerner-Lam says elsewhere. If you want, I can see if I can call him on Monday.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
its funny he thinks the democrats must be paid off too in order for them not to be screaming and yelling about his "evidence". controlled demolitions requires that thousands of holes be drilled in thosuands of locations in a building and filled with thousands of pounds of explosives. sorry, thats just unlikely. and it doesn't create just a "little" smoke. it creates a huge caboom. and it would have been visible clearly on mutiple floors as it would have been required placement on the unique outer load bearing structure of the wtc.

just more ramblings..and sad fantasies from notorious. he just doens't know when to stop.

if they went public with this (the democrats, that is) and claimed to have all this evidence, they would easily jeopardize the future of the party and their own careers. why would they say anything? in washington, you gotta know when to play ball... this is one of those instances.

 

[WildHorse]

SampSon ,

You said,
"...He hasn't posted anything worthy of "serious discussion", just more mindless conspiracy videos...

Are you willing to read 2 transcripts by an almost universally esteemed scholar?
Are you willing to honestly consider their content without just a blanket categorical put-down? Please observe that they're well-footnoted so others can independently verify the content matter.

I'm referring to the transcripts I linked in my 1st post of this thread, repeated here as a courtesy to you:

Text

and

Text

Also, SampSon, you said.
"...can rant all they want, just like you, ..."

I said only that credible people, some who were eyewitnesses and some who are experts with high standing in their fields, have asked good questions which are worth considering. That's all. Your labeling this as a "rant" sounds like ridicule, and is incorrect. That "glove doesn't fit..."

And again, responsive to the OP, these linked transcripts illustrate WHY so many people have questions.

Also, I think we'll all agree that, though our views differ, we appreciate that the ATOT moderator has allowed this thread, when others on this topic were locked. Thanks, MOD!

ed for typo

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: Number1
Wow, superbly explained. I enjoyed reading your post very much. Well said.

SampSon is doing his 'look at me, I'm the smartest person on ATOT' thing again. Keep bunching in all those conspiracies together and calling the data a circle jerking fest, you're not convincing anyone except maybe Number1.

 

[noto12ious]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Yossarian

Originally posted by: noto12ious
http://plaguepuppy.net/public_html/vide...floor26th_firefighter_high_quality.wmv

every once in a while I look at one of these pieces of "evidence" you produce and I don't see it proving a single thing.

i agree... this proves nothing. i mean, yeah, i don't really need any more proof to know that the administration was behing 9/11, but this video makes no sense... i watched it 3 times and finally decided that it's a pointless video clip that proves nothing.

Yeah, let's ignore the fact the a huge gust of wind went UP the stairs after the entire building shook (not a result of a plane crashing). Let's ignore that they fell one floor downwards.

Let's also ignore the other video I posted of major news networks reporting huge pre collapse explosions taking place: (addressed to Yossarian)
http://www.mypetgoat.tv/video/Bomb_Montage.WMV

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: noto12ious

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Yossarian

Originally posted by: noto12ious
http://plaguepuppy.net/public_html/vide...floor26th_firefighter_high_quality.wmv

every once in a while I look at one of these pieces of "evidence" you produce and I don't see it proving a single thing.

i agree... this proves nothing. i mean, yeah, i don't really need any more proof to know that the administration was behing 9/11, but this video makes no sense... i watched it 3 times and finally decided that it's a pointless video clip that proves nothing.

Yeah, let's ignore the fact the a huge gust of wind went UP the stairs after the entire building shook (not a result of a plane crashing). Let's ignore that they fell one floor downwards.

Let's also ignore the other video I posted of major news networks reporting huge pre collapse explosions taking place: (addressed to Yossarian)
http://www.mypetgoat.tv/video/Bomb_Montage.WMV

What other conspiracy do you believe in? Let me guess, ALL of them? You and all the other conspiracists are pathetic.
I bet your all wearing those QRay ionized bracelets and immediately felt better when you put them on.

 

[eits]

http://www.911inplanesite.com/911trailer.html

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: eits
http://www.911inplxnesite.com/911trailer.html

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: eits
http://www.911inplxnesite.com/911trailer.html

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

We need to just let stupid dogs lie. These idiots are blinded by ideology more than anything. Their thought processes are much like the terrorists. It is futile. Let the idiots believe in their religion of conspiracy. They are harmless enough. They are not the kind of people that are smart enough to get very far in life and thus pose no real threat.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: eits
http://www.911inplxnesite.com/911trailer.html

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

We need to just let stupid dogs lie. These idiots are blinded by ideology more than anything. Their thought processes are much like the terrorists. It is futile. Let the idiots believe in their religion of conspiracy. They are harmless enough. They are not the kind of people that are smart enough to get very far in life and thus pose no real threat.

Right on brother. I am also getting tired of banging my head against a brick wall trying to get trough to them.

 

[NYHoustonman]

What really bothers me, is that Opie and Anthony had one of the creators of that Loose Change video, some korey asshole, on their show... And the guy refused to acknowledge the generally accepted stories of 9/11 as even possible. He basically had the attitude that he was OBVIOUSLY right and anything that went against what he was presenting was OBVIOUSLY wrong - no matter what evidence was brought to light.

They posed the following question... What is more likely, that the government staged all of this, etc. etc. etc., or that terrorists from the middle east, who hate us already, decided to attack?

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
What really bothers me, is that Opie and Anthony had one of the creators of that Loose Change video, some korey asshole, on their show... And the guy refused to acknowledge the generally accepted stories of 9/11 as even possible. He basically had the attitude that he was OBVIOUSLY right and anything that went against what he was presenting was OBVIOUSLY wrong - no matter what evidence was brought to light.

They posed the following question... What is more likely, that the government staged all of this, etc. etc. etc., or that terrorists from the middle east, who hate us already, decided to attack?

the middle east didn't hate us already... learn your middle eastern history/politics.

 

[NYHoustonman]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
What really bothers me, is that Opie and Anthony had one of the creators of that Loose Change video, some korey asshole, on their show... And the guy refused to acknowledge the generally accepted stories of 9/11 as even possible. He basically had the attitude that he was OBVIOUSLY right and anything that went against what he was presenting was OBVIOUSLY wrong - no matter what evidence was brought to light.

They posed the following question... What is more likely, that the government staged all of this, etc. etc. etc., or that terrorists from the middle east, who hate us already, decided to attack?

the middle east didn't hate us already... learn your middle eastern history/politics.

Really? Everything I've heard has told me that Palestine, etc. hate us for getting involved with Israel and for being rich and powerful in general.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
What really bothers me, is that Opie and Anthony had one of the creators of that Loose Change video, some korey asshole, on their show... And the guy refused to acknowledge the generally accepted stories of 9/11 as even possible. He basically had the attitude that he was OBVIOUSLY right and anything that went against what he was presenting was OBVIOUSLY wrong - no matter what evidence was brought to light.

They posed the following question... What is more likely, that the government staged all of this, etc. etc. etc., or that terrorists from the middle east, who hate us already, decided to attack?

the middle east didn't hate us already... learn your middle eastern history/politics.

Really? Everything I've heard has told me that Palestine, etc. hate us for getting involved with Israel and for being rich and powerful in general.

well, for one, that's not exactly true. first off, palestine isn't the entire middle east. palestine isn't even a country, yet.

iran didn't really have beef with us. yeah, we had a tense history with them, and them with us, but that's about it. saddam didn't like us, but he wasn't about to do jack crap about it. we had tensions with libya, but nothing real major. those are really the only countries that we weren't really on friendly terms with. we were pretty cool with oman, dubai, saudi arabia, turkmenistan, tajikistan, kyrizstan, pakistan, afghanistan (believe it or not, before 9/11, we were pretty cool with them... talibani officials even came to the states), armenia, syria, jordan, turkey, and egypt (i think i covered them all...).

yeah, back in the 70s, most of the major middle eastern countries hated us for supporting israel, but they didn't hate us for being rich and powerful. if anything, now, they hate us for being powerful and abusing the power we've got. they don't like us for coming into their countries and changing their cultural landscape (baywatch, coca-cola, britney spears, nsync, french prince of bel air, mcdonald's, etc).

in fact, in most countries (with maybe the exception of pakistan), a VAST majority (about 80-85%) of people like the united states and have nothing against them. it's just the fact that there are some crazy bitchasses in government (just like we have) who think that just because they feel a certain way about something, everyone else has to abide by their whim.

you have to realize that unlike christianity, islam doesn't have a pope or figureheads to tell people what to believe. that's how these people rise to power... people get lost religiously and look to be found, so they try to turn to those who they think know what they're talking about. just like how you turn on the tv on sunday morning and see a bunch of redneck yahoos calling up to get advice and guidance from pat robertson and other people who talk out of their asses and give their religions a bad name, the same applies with some of those crazy muslims who follow people like osama.

the press makes it seem as if most of the middle east hates us or that most of the people are crazy future terrorists. it's as arbitrary as al jazeera portraying white americans as being future kkk members.

 

[Special K]

Interesting, I just finished watching the Loose Change 911 video, although I did so after reading the entire 911myths.com site, which seems to disprove most of the objections raised in Loose Change. The one that stands out to me and that does not have a good explanation on the myths site is why the FBI did not ever release the 3 black boxes they supposedly recovered.

EDIT: Another that stood out was why the FBI immediately confiscated all recordings of the Pentagon crash, and only provided 5 frames of a security camera that shows bascially nothing. Although on the other hand, the myths site does a pretty good job of debunking the Loose Change's claim that Flight 77 never crashed at all.

 

[eits]

did you watch the 2nd edition of loose change or the 1st one?

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: Kalmah

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: Legend
I don't believe in the conspiracies, but at a first glance, the way that WTC7 and the two towers fell seems to negate fundamental ideas of science.

For example, all 3 buildings fell at free fall speed. What that means is that if you were to jump off the roof at the same time it started falling, you would have landed the same time as the roof. That means there was nearly no resistance to the fall, meaning that all supporting members likely failed at the same time. The reports say that the building fell in a pancake fashion, but that is incorrect because that would provided resistance and the building would have fallen much more slowly.

What's really unusual is that WTC7 fell at free fall and uniformly supposedly because there were fires. It wasn't hit by a plane. Yet, all structural support failed uniformly and it fell at free fall evenly. Very hard to explain.

Its only hard to explain if you know nothing about the properties of building materials, fires, and structural collapse. Those buildings fell that way because thats how they were designed! Do you actually think they would design a skyscraper to fall over?

So if one floor collapses then the other 106 floors goes out with it? If the engineering is so good as to make it fall that way on purpose in case the building ever needed to be torn down, I would assume they would consider the effect of one floor collapsing... and make sure the rest of the building can stay stable. (unless done on purpose)

I think it would be a bit ridiculous to state that it was the Government that planned it though. Maybe the terrorists knew a plane wouldn't take down the whole building.. maybe one of them was a janitor, placing explosives every night for the last 5 years? Maybe running the airlines out of buisness by doing this was all part of the plan?

It is bullshit about the overwhelming evidense that the government knew something was going to happen prior without doing anything about it.

I'd like to encourage all to watch a few of those 'conspiracy' videos that are floating around. Of course look at them with some skeptisism.

The floors arent supposed to collapse under normal conditions you retard. However, in the event of a collapse that is how the building was SUPPOSED to come down...straight down. A skyscraper toppling over would NOT be a good thing. They werent designed for the stresses that were put on them (ie: 3000 degree fires burning for extended periods of time.)

Jesus, these threads just piss me off. You somehow believe the government is sneaky, sly, and intelligent enough to pull this off yet at the same time believe the government is too inept to run a war in iraq and manage the government. At the same time, when faced with overwhelming facts and proof from people who actually know what they are talking about, you refuse to acknowledge anything that is said and instead believe the people who know NOTHING about fires, explosions, structures, or building materials.

This is fvcking retarded.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: eits
did you watch the 2nd edition of loose change or the 1st one?

The second.

 

[noto12ious]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: eits
http://www.911inplxnesite.com/911trailer.html

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

We need to just let stupid dogs lie. These idiots are blinded by ideology more than anything. Their thought processes are much like the terrorists. It is futile. Let the idiots believe in their religion of conspiracy. They are harmless enough. They are not the kind of people that are smart enough to get very far in life and thus pose no real threat.

That sounds exactly like you.

1) The Popular Mechanics article has heavy ties to Homeland Security.
Chertoff's Cousin Penned Popular Mechanics 9/11 Hit Piece

2) There are no footnotes in the Popular Mechanics hit piece.

3) Popular Mechanics has heavy ties to the CIA.
'Popular Mechanics' & Other CIA Front Organizations


I'm still waiting for someone to debunk these clips which absolutely destroy the official government story of 9/11:

Huge pre collapse explosions caught on audio...with smoke rising from the ground before collapse (Nobody has dared to debunk the audio of HUGE pre collapse explosions, or video of smoke rising from the streets seconds before the collapse begins from the top):
http://www.911blogger.com/files/video/911eyewitness_wtc1.wmv

Cheney was monitoring flight 77 (contrary to all government reports), and Mineta's testimony was omitted from all official records:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y&search=mineta

The official timeline has Cheney entering the bunker at 10 AM, however, Mineta's testimony (given under oath) places Cheney at the bunker at 9:20. The Pentagon, Capitol Hill, etc were NOT evacuated until AFTER the Pentagon was struck. Cheney's in trouble. The "orders" were never clarified by the 9/11 Commission. Why did the government intentionally manipulate the official timeline? Cover-up.

 

[WildHorse]

I'd like to uplift the tone of this above a simple "right - wrong" argument, to a more philosophical plane, by posting a long quote I found tonight from an avid environmentalist who just passed away. It strikes me as excellent food for thought re: the OP.

I bolded a few bits to help those who don't want to read it all, so they can scan it faster.

(ATOT Mod, I hope it's O.K. to post such a long quote on this one occasion, I won't make a regular practice of it):

From the desk of Dennis Weaver....

June 2005

To justify his war in Iraq, President Bush tells us that it was necessary to secure our freedom. And with the powerful national public relations campaign coming out of Washington daily, to support that premise, most freedom loving Americans believe it. The irony is that while the President tells us that the war is necessary for our freedom he strongly calls upon congress to extend the Patriot Act, which threatens and erodes our freedom.

Shortly after it was passed [overwhelmingly by both the House and the Senate] in November of 2002, the very conservative columnist William Saffire of the New York Times wrote, ?Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every website you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend ? all these transactions and communications will go into what the defense department describes as ?a virtual, centralized grand database?.

?Add to this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial sources, every piece of information that government has about you ? passport application, driver?s license and bridge toll records, judicial and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the FBI, your lifetime paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance ? and you have the supersnoop?s dream, a ?total information awareness? about every US citizen.?

What makes America great and very special is our love for the precious freedom that the founding fathers gave their blood to make sure that we can enjoy it. What would they say if they were alive today and witnessed the erosion of those freedoms? What would Patrick Henry say who sounded the battle cry, ?Give me liberty or give me death.?

Freedom must not only be fought for on the battlefield and in the halls of congress but by every truly patriotic citizen of this great country in the town halls, the homes, the workplaces of America and finally in the voting booth. It is sad that often we don?t realize the value of something until it is taken away from us. It seems to be true with freedom for the process of its erosion is gradual and we won?t realize that it is happening until perhaps it is too late. I?m reminded of the experiment the scientists did with the frog. They put the poor fellow in a container of water in such a way that the frog could vacate it if it wanted to. But the water was pleasantly warm and the frog felt no desire or need to get out. The scientists then began to heat the water - very slowly. The frog continued to swim until one day it woke up and cried out, ?I?m in real hot water.? But by that time he was so enervated that he didn?t have the strength to save himself. Are we going to fall into the same trap? Are we going to ignore the slow chipping away of our civil liberties and freedoms until it?s too late?

George Orwell tried to warn us in his controversial book ?1984? that perhaps the real and greatest threat to our way of life is not from an outside force but from within. And today we see those that have been elected to protect our civil liberties are willing, even seemingly eager, to support legislation that will deny us those civil liberties. And it is all being done in the name of security. The justification is that we are at war, and war requires that we must take extreme measures to ensure our safety and that The Patriot Act will be necessary only until the war is over. The problem is that we are fighting an endless war. There can always be terrorist cells somewhere around the world, and in the minds of some, that is justification for depriving us of our constitutional rights.

President Bush is not only lobbying for an extension of the Patriot Act but is requesting that congress make it permanent. He wants it forever? It?s hard enough to get a piece of legislature reversed even if it is not permanent. Income tax for instance. It was voted a necessity during World War I. There wasn?t enough money to support the war from the sale of war bonds, so income tax was created with the assurance that it would be repealed after the war was over. Not only was it not repealed but, over the years congress has increased it. And that was a war that had a definite ending.

Our freedoms and our private lives are sacred. Are we willing to give up that which the founders of our country gave their blood to give us? Is it not our responsibility to pass on to those who follow the freedoms and the right to privacy, which we have been given? Security is important but not if we have to sacrifice our freedom and our civil liberties, not if we shred the protection that our constitution guarantees us. Security without freedom is meaningless. There are thousand of individuals incarcerated in our prisons that are ?secure? but live futile lives of desperation without freedom.

Patriotism does not mean that we acquiesce meekly to those in power, but to speak out when we feel that they are making decisions contrary to the good of our country and the welfare of its people.

To express your feelings on this important matter, you may contact your Senators and members of the House of Representatives by going to

http://www.senate.gov/

http://www.house.gov/

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