Why are people so afraid of gays?

[konakona]

lol you can sit and wait all day, i got better things to do and i dont even care that much about this issue as i have said.


now THIS is something you should keep in mind before you hit that post button, n00b

 

[Legend]

I already know I'd be waiting a long time. You won't find anything because there's nothing there.

Telling someone to shut up because they are making prejudice statements against groups of people is not name calling. However, you calling me "n00b" is name calling but I'm not sure what that means. What I'm a n00b of?

Furthermore this little issue is doing nothing to prove your point. You have no evidence. Just baseless statements of hate.

 

[konakona]

where did i make a prejudice statement?
all i see is this out of nowhere

You obviously have some sort of agenda against gays. Grow the hell up.

so personal attack is your ultimate weapon when posting online? do i really need to grow up to stoop down to your level?
PROVE me that i hate gays. as for the evidence, you go get a petition from 100 fellow anandtechers they absolutely demand me gooling for stuff i am not so strongly passionate about. DO IT NOW. who else do you think cares about me posting evidence besides you? if it bothers you so much go create your own rant thread or bitch about it to mods. so much for your little attmpt to start a flamewar.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: VanillaH

so are you suggesting people just have this big urge to force themselve to chose incest, bestiality and pedophilia? unlike some bigots i dont really hate those individuals, unless they act upon violence to fulfill their desires - much the same way i dont hate on gays even though i get disgusted by the idea of the homosexuality. at the end of the day, they all have one thing in common : a form of sexual abberation. last thing i wanna see is this BS argument like "oh wait, homosexuality has been there since the beginning of human history..." or "homosexuality is harmles...". it could easily be argued for other forms of sexual abberations as well. for a starter, incest has clearly predated homosexuality for one thing; how do you think earlier humans procreated anyhow? its not as difficult to find elements of incest in literary works than that of homosexuality either.

Isn't having the "desire" to have homosexual encounters the definition of being gay? Just because said person doesn't act upon their desires, doesn't make their desires untrue. Also, do you really activly "choose" what you desire. I don't think so. I have NEVER ever had any desire to be up close and personal with another male ever in my lifetime, thus, I'm not gay. Someone who DOES desire to be with someone else in the same gender, is gay. Even if they don't act upon their desires, if they "try" to be straight, they are still gay. One can choose weather or not to do the same actions as a straight person, but if that person is attracted to those of the same gender and not those of the other gender, it doesn't matter how many chicks they bang, if they prefer to be with the same gender, they are gay.

Also, homosexuality is harmless and has been around for a long time. Hell it even appears in nature among wild animals, so it has probably been around a lot longer then humankind.

It should not be compared to incest, beastiality, or pedophilia. At most I would compare it to ones fetish or kink, and even then so, people aren't making active decisions as to what stuff they are into. They are either into it, or not.


Incest has been known to cause mental illnesses, retardation, and since the development of medicine, has been VERY taboo in civilized countries.
Incest = Causes retardation/Mental Illness = BAD

Beastiality, Every species is different. There are natural cases of Goats with Sheep, Lions with Tigers, etc ... however, that doesn't mean it's OK for humans to do it with some other species.
Beastialiaty = Rape = BAD

Pedophilia, Children are not mature adults. They are immature. They are not physically or psychologicly ready for encounters with mature adults.
Pedophilia = Rape = BAD

Homosexuality, consenting adults are consenting adults. Their minds may not work exactly the same as heterosexuals, however, they are both physically and psychologicly ready for encounters with those with similar interests.
Homosexuality = Different = Different ... not bad, not good. Just different.





EDIT: VanillaH, this is not meant to be an "attack" on you in any way shape or form. We can always agree to disagree, or perhaps I just misunderstood your intent... Hopefully mine is clear though.

 

[Legend]

I'm not doing any silly petitions or complaints until you provide evidence to back up your ignorant logical fallacy.


You associate homosexuality with something like beasility, pedo, or incest. In other words you associate homosexuality with something immoral without anything to support that belief.

That is prejudice:

"An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=prejudice

do i really need to grow up to stoop down to your level?

Speaking of personal attacks...

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I think these people are dreadfully afraid of their own sexuality.

Inspired by this thread.

Ever been hit on by a guy when you've had no luck with the ladies in quite some time and the guy think the room mate that just moved out was your lover?

But, I wouldn't say afraid. I'd say .... I just wish they would stay in their closets.

 

[grrl]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I think these people are dreadfully afraid of their own sexuality.

Inspired by this thread.

There are many reasons, but there is definitely some truth to your statement about sexuality. Some of the most rabidly homophobic (and often religious) people I've ever met immediately set my gaydar off. If you say you hate something, then you can't be one, right?

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Originally posted by: Legend

slippery slope? play on words, very fun.

Perhaps someone with your amount of ignorance is also lacking intelligence. Here:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

You made a leap of comparisons between pedo, bestiality or incest.

Show me evidence that any of those three are genetically predisposed.

Or show me evidence that homosexuality is not a choice.

Or shut the hell up.

I just hate the flamboyant gay lifestyle. The ones who shove it in your face.

I agree with that. It just pisses me off to see people stereotype all gays as something immoral.

Isn't pedophilia considered a mental disorder? Do people choose to have mental disorders? Have genetic links been found with other mental disorders? Wasn't homosexuality once considered a mental disorder?

Either way the only real difference is one directly harms one of the participants (debated by NAMBLA ).

 

[Legend]

Isn't pedophilia considered a mental disorder? Do people choose to have mental disorders? Have genetic links been found with other mental disorders? Wasn't homosexuality once considered a mental disorder?

Yes, homosexuality was once considered a mental disorder. But no longer.

Someone wanted to know what the sexual orientation experts think. Well then, read this:

http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html


I don't know if pedo is a mental disorder. But I do know that homosexuality is not.

And if pedophilia is a mental disorder and it's not a choice, that doesn't matter. Those actions taken by pedos directly harm other people. Homosexuality does not.

Thus, it is still a logical fallacy to compare the two.

 

[shilala]

I'm not afraid.
It's a threatened masculinity/lack of self confidence problem.
I'm blessed with plenty of both.

 

[konakona]

Isn't having the "desire" to have homosexual encounters the definition of being gay? Just because said person doesn't act upon their desires, doesn't make their desires untrue. Also, do you really activly "choose" what you desire. I don't think so. I have NEVER ever had any desire to be up close and personal with another male ever in my lifetime, thus, I'm not gay. Someone who DOES desire to be with someone else in the same gender, is gay. Even if they don't act upon their desires, if they "try" to be straight, they are still gay. One can choose weather or not to do the same actions as a straight person, but if that person is attracted to those of the same gender and not those of the other gender, it doesn't matter how many chicks they bang, if they prefer to be with the same gender, they are gay.

my mention of the whole "desire thing" was to put an emphasis on the fact that anything that happens without consent of both parties invovled (i.e. rape) = BAD, which is precisely what you would say. having homosexual inclination makes one gay, wheather or not he does act upon his desires or not.

homosexuality has been around for sometime, but it has also been taboo in civilized countries. i must point out people tend to blame it all on religeon, but there are many non-religeous people who are in disagreement with heterosexuality, including me.

my understanding on incest, or the reason for it being so taboo is more of what detrimental effect it has on traditional family structure and bond, more so than retardation. now that we brought it up, i would like to do some googling on my own to find out at what rate do these diseases actually take place.

if cross-breeding is not acceptable for humans, existence of homosexuality among different species is no longer a valid argument for homosexuality being justifiable. it may occur naturally, but so does cross-breeding. using that same logic, why shouldnt bestiality justified when homosexuality can? also, i think i kinda lost you there when you equate beastiality with rape.

i dont necessarily equate pedophila with rape. rape is something i could never condone, but as long as its not forced upon someone i dont see it any worse than just another type of sexual abberation. on a side note, perhaps there is a link between the genetic differences in brains and tendency to become pedophilic or incestious, much the same way it is claimed to happen with homosexuality(provided that is indeed true)?

thank you for disecting my post without having to call me a religeous zealot or biggoted. we can both agree to respectfully disagree if you will, cuz we know we are just different.

also, i would like to repeat myself and add i have never claimed homosexuals are sinners and homosexuality = BAD. just like classy has so eloquently expressed himself, i just do not agree with it and choose not to support it. this may stem from my agnostic views on things, my views on religeon is quite similar : i dont agree with their religeon, but some of my best frineds are christian and it makes no difference whatsoever to me the fact that are devoted to their faith.

EDIT : no, i havnt sensed an ounce of animosity or hatred when i read your carefully written reply. with constructive posts of that nature we can at least learn about varying thought patterns among the ATOT members.

 

[Legend]

homosexuality has been around for sometime, but it has also been taboo in civilized countries.

This is called begging the question. Because homosexuality has not been accepted in the past, there must be something wrong with it (that's what you're suggesting whether or not it was intended). That doesn't make sense.

f cross-breeding is not acceptable for humans, existence of homosexuality among different species is no longer a valid argument for homosexuality being justifiable. it may occur naturally, but so does cross-breeding. using that same logic, why shouldnt bestiality justified when homosexuality can? also, i think i kinda lost you there when you equate beastiality with rape.

I disagree because cross-breeding is not allowed because it creates children with severe health issues.

Furthermore, you're begging the question again. Because cross-breeding is natural and it is looked down upon, so must homosexuality?

Why does homosexuality need to be justified? What's wrong with it? Are there moral implications?

on a side note, perhaps there is a link between the genetic differences in brains and tendency to become pedophilic or incestious, much the same way it is claimed to happen with homosexuality(provided that is indeed true)?

Maybe I should mention that while we are able to manipulate the sexuality with a single gene in flies, that we humans are obviously more complex. Sexuality comes in may grey points:

http://www.lgbtcampus.org/resources/training/kinsey_scale.html

Some people do have a "choice" to be straight or gay or both. These are bisexuals.

However, there is still debate one whether or not it is completely genetic. But experts agree that it is not a choice.

http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html

"No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed."


So my point is that these people are this way because they were made that way. People that disagree with them because of their lifestyle are missing the point that it is not a choice. Therefor it cannot be a chosen lifestyle. If you 'don't agree with' their nature, then that is as bad as doing the same to other groups of people like blacks.




However, whether or not pedos or beastiality or incest is natural doesn't matter. It is still harmful. Homosexuality is not.

 

[konakona]

This is called begging the question. Because homosexuality has not been accepted in the past, there must be something wrong with it (that's what you're suggesting whether or not it was intended). That doesn't make sense.

This is called reading the posts more carefully. if you have failed to notice, i was drawing a parallel between incest and homosexuality since they are both taboo in most countries, or up until recently at least.

I disagree because cross-breeding is not allowed because it creates children with severe health issues.

Furthermore, you're begging the question again. Because cross-breeding is natural and it is looked down upon, so must homosexuality?

Why does homosexuality need to be justified? What's wrong with it? Are there moral implications?

who says cross-breeding has to be performed with procreation in mind? Again, you missed the whole point. BurnItDwn was suggesting that one of the reasons why homosexuality might be acceptable is it is takes place spontaneously among animals, yet cross-breeding is a no-no since we arent animals and shouldnt do it just becauze anymals do it. my rebutal to that was if thats the case, homosexuality should not be acceptable either, using the same logic, since we arent animals. notice none of that reflects my opinion on moral issues; since my dislike for homosexuality (again, NOT THE INDIVIDUALS, so i can stay PC) is not religeon-based, morality has nothing to do with it. you are just opening a whole new can of worms there, or begging for a question to put it in your own terms. amazing how people can totally misinterprete it when they get overly defensive.

However, whether or not pedos or beastiality or incest is natural doesn't matter. It is still harmful. Homosexuality is not.

so again, prove me (preferrably with an scientific evidence including data charts and statistics) beastiality and pedophilia is always harmful? rape is harmful no matter what, that much is given.

 

[clamum]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Why is it that if someone does not agree with the gay lifestyle and prefers not to be around gays that they are somehow "afraid" of them? I guess if you demonize someone's POV then you feel you have won the arguement? I don't care one way or another and I have known gay people and can hang out with them when the circumstances warrant it but I choose not to be around gay people for the most part....but that does not mean I am afraid of them, I simply have NOTHING in common with them.

Holy fvcking redneck

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn

Originally posted by: VanillaH

so are you suggesting people just have this big urge to force themselve to chose incest, bestiality and pedophilia? unlike some bigots i dont really hate those individuals, unless they act upon violence to fulfill their desires - much the same way i dont hate on gays even though i get disgusted by the idea of the homosexuality. at the end of the day, they all have one thing in common : a form of sexual abberation. last thing i wanna see is this BS argument like "oh wait, homosexuality has been there since the beginning of human history..." or "homosexuality is harmles...". it could easily be argued for other forms of sexual abberations as well. for a starter, incest has clearly predated homosexuality for one thing; how do you think earlier humans procreated anyhow? its not as difficult to find elements of incest in literary works than that of homosexuality either.

Isn't having the "desire" to have homosexual encounters the definition of being gay? Just because said person doesn't act upon their desires, doesn't make their desires untrue. Also, do you really activly "choose" what you desire. I don't think so. I have NEVER ever had any desire to be up close and personal with another male ever in my lifetime, thus, I'm not gay. Someone who DOES desire to be with someone else in the same gender, is gay. Even if they don't act upon their desires, if they "try" to be straight, they are still gay. One can choose weather or not to do the same actions as a straight person, but if that person is attracted to those of the same gender and not those of the other gender, it doesn't matter how many chicks they bang, if they prefer to be with the same gender, they are gay.

Also, homosexuality is harmless and has been around for a long time. Hell it even appears in nature among wild animals, so it has probably been around a lot longer then humankind.

It should not be compared to incest, beastiality, or pedophilia. At most I would compare it to ones fetish or kink, and even then so, people aren't making active decisions as to what stuff they are into. They are either into it, or not.


Incest has been known to cause mental illnesses, retardation, and since the development of medicine, has been VERY taboo in civilized countries.
Incest = Causes retardation/Mental Illness = BAD

Should we ban people with genetic defects from breeding as well? They also create retards.

Homosexuals are confused, sick people with an agenda to destroy this country with their perversion. They need to be exorcised.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: VanillaH

Originally posted by: Legend

you can choose to conviniently accept whichever research that supports your POV. i have seen scientific results that go against that claim. unless you are an authority in the field of sexual orientation, dont make it sound like its an established fact.

I don't need to be in the field to see the obvious.

Please enlighten me. Show me scientific evidence from a credible source that proves that homosexuality is a choice.

Personally, I don't buy it. Based off common sense and scientific evidence. I never chose to be hetereosexual. It just happened. Gays say that it's not a choice.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/03/news/cell.php

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=743246&page=1

Thats not true at all. Homosexuality is a way of life, its a lifestyle.

Just what is a homosexual lifestyle? Are you stereotyping a large group of people as something immoral?

What leads you to believe that their orientation is not genetic?

so are you suggesting people just have this big urge to force themselve to chose incest, bestiality and pedophilia? unlike some bigots i dont really hate those individuals, unless they act upon violence to fulfill their desires - much the same way i dont hate on gays even though i get disgusted by the idea of the homosexuality. at the end of the day, they all have one thing in common : a form of sexual abberation. last thing i wanna see is this BS argument like "oh wait, homosexuality has been there since the beginning of human history..." or "homosexuality is harmles...". it could easily be argued for other forms of sexual abberations as well. for a starter, incest has clearly predated homosexuality for one thing; how do you think earlier humans procreated anyhow? its not as difficult to find elements of incest in literary works than that of homosexuality either.

unlike pedos and incest/beasties homosexuals deal with consenting adults and don't produce genetically flawed children. big factors. and a fundamental factor in why anyone that brings it up is not getting it. your other arguements are null and void because you don't understand this.

people fear because of ignorance. incorrect beliefs about the potential for conversion and such lead people to fear it will wipe out society if it spreads like a virus. further fear is if the person is closer to the bisexual range of the sexuality scale and is really dealing with their own suppressed feelings of attraction with extreme denial. there are those who are dead set on the gender roles they grew up with, and are strict fundamentalists about it for no other reason then tradition or religion. and then there are just those who hate those who are different. whats new.

well with the current outright and public hatred of allof us infidels by islamic fundamentalists these days.. we are getting a taste of what it feels like to be hated for stupid reasons like the homosexuals have for so many years.

 

[konakona]

unlike pedos and incest/beasties homosexuals deal with consenting adults and don't produce genetically flawed children. big factors. and a fundamental factor in why anyone that brings it up is not getting it. your other arguements are null and void because you don't understand this.

people fear because of ignorance. incorrect beliefs about the potential for conversion and such lead people to fear it will wipe out society if it spreads like a virus. further fear is if the person is closer to the bisexual range of the sexuality scale and is really dealing with their own suppressed feelings of attraction with extreme denial. there are those who are dead set on the gender roles they grew up with, and are strict fundamentalists about it for no other reason then tradition or religion. and then there are just those who hate those who are different. whats new.

well with the current outright and public hatred of allof us infidels by islamic fundamentalists these days.. we are getting a taste of what it feels like to be hated for stupid reasons like the homosexuals have for so many years.

again, i am not going to convince you and vice versa. we just have different views on sexual abberations, period.

one thing i am strongly against is black and white philosophy. face it, the world isnt just made up of pro-gay and ignorant or stuckup "homophobes". is it so hard to accept we are not very fond of the homosexuality? perhaps i am on the same boat as those who say "i dont care as long as they keep it to themselves", except, as some others have pointed out, there are many flamboyant homosexuals out there that interfere with our mutual respect doctrine. you dont have to let everyone know you are gay, and i do get disgusted if i saw some homosexual material on tv - i dont deny it. do i go out on a crusade to massacre and harass gays? no. do i ever hate individual solely due to his sexual preference? no, but that would just reduce our common grounds, and i would prefer if the person in question were not gay. i think i am getting tired of repeating myself.

 

[Legend]

This is called reading the posts more carefully. if you have failed to notice, i was drawing a parallel between incest and homosexuality since they are both taboo in most countries, or up until recently at least.

Why would you even draw a parallel when the only thing in common is that society has not accepted it in the past. You should look at the reasons why it wasn't accepted, and not simply see a parallel in the past and try to associate the two.

who says cross-breeding has to be performed with procreation in mind? Again, you missed the whole point. BurnItDwn was suggesting that one of the reasons why homosexuality might be acceptable is it is takes place spontaneously among animals, yet cross-breeding is a no-no since we arent animals and shouldnt do it just becauze anymals do it. my rebutal to that was if thats the case, homosexuality should not be acceptable either, using the same logic, since we arent animals.

I didn't miss your point.

You're point doesn't make sense. Ask yourself WHY cross-breeding isn't acceptable.

You automatically assume that homosexuality shouldn't be allowed. WHY?

You're comparing an immoral hetereosexual behavior with the entire homosexual orientation. It just doesn't compare.

so again, prove me (preferrably with an scientific evidence including data charts and statistics) beastiality and pedophilia is always harmful? rape is harmful no matter what, that much is given.

You want me to prove that pedophilia is always harmful? Are you nuts?

Show me a case of consensual homosexual sex being harmful. JUST ONE CASE.

 

[sonambulo]

because they're afraid of their own sexuality.

 

Originally posted by: DEMO24
Im not

/thread

:thumbsup:

 

[Legend]

one thing i am strongly against is black and white philosophy. face it, the world isnt just made up of pro-gay and ignorant or stuckup "homophobes". is it so hard to accept we are not very fond of the homosexuality? perhaps i am on the same boat as those who say "i dont care as long as they keep it to themselves", except, as some others have pointed out, there are many flamboyant homosexuals out there that interfere with our mutual respect doctrine. you dont have to let everyone know you are gay, and i do get disgusted if i saw some homosexual material on tv - i dont deny it. do i go out on a crusade to massacre and harass gays? no. do i ever hate individual solely due to his sexual preference? no, but that would just reduce our common grounds, and i would prefer if the person in question were not gay. i think i am getting tired of repeating myself.

I would have no problem with this but your comment associating the entire homosexual orientation with immoral sexual behaviors make you seem someone more like zendari (see post above on this page).

You also initially made the comment that I'm ignoring scientific evidence that you've seen with your own eyes that suggests that homosexuality is a choice (or perhaps not genetic) and that I was selectingly ignoring this data. Yet you never linked this evidence.

I linked scientific studies supporting my case.

 

[0roo0roo]

while i don't think its optimal since they provide no children for society, but i dont see it as a problem being there is a population problem and the gay population is limited by nature anyways. and contribution to society in matters of culture and technology matter more than population these days. for allwe know gays augment the strength of our culture/society in ways we dont understand yet. not everything is straight forward. i don't get the whole acting gay thing though, i don't really care if they do. its like telling black people to hide themselves away because they make you uncomfortable. thats your problem really. i felt a bit homophobic in my teen years,b ut i'm over it. gay scene on tv between guys on a show? i'm indifferent instead of uncomfortable now. i'm more disgusted when ugly people get it on..regardless of sexual orientation heh

 

[konakona]

I didn't miss your point.
You're point doesn't make sense. Ask yourself WHY cross-breeding isn't acceptable.
You automatically assume that homosexuality shouldn't be allowed. WHY?

You're comparing an immoral hetereosexual behavior with the entire homosexual orientation. It just doesn't compare.

wrong. reread again, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that simple analogy. when did i assert homosexuality shouldnt be allowed? i specifically mentioned using BurnItDwn's logic, meaning he assumed beastiality should not be allowed for some reason, and i was unable to see a distinction that seperates homosexuality from beastiality other than "beastiality = RAPE" part; he didnt care to elaborate on it, maybe some explannation is due. we all have different values, dont try to impose your own to others when trying to have a civil discussion. if you let me have an indulgence to assume, i take it you are still bent on the prejudice and misconception all naysayers to homosexuality are religeous zealots with confused moral values. again, i am not worried about homosexuality being moral or immoral; rather, i said there was no connection between those two concepts <sigh>.

You want me to prove that pedophilia is always harmful? Are you nuts?
Show me a case of consensual homosexual sex being harmful. JUST ONE CASE.

do it as you please, i am in no way obligated to follow your directives.

 

[konakona]

I linked scientific studies supporting my case.

you surely did, but i really dont think i think its worth my time really trying to justify my logic. maybe i will do it sometime later if i get some spare time and cant find anything better to do. i cant put my finger on it, but i remember seeing the theories that swing the other direction. the whole point - i should have mentioned in the very beginning - is that i believe our scope of scientific research in brains isnt all too advanced to take all the new research datas for their face value. for every new theory, there is a counter-theory and for what i have seen and heard so far, the stuff is still all up in the air. plus i would like to stay more open-minded by not jumping to a conclusion that homosexuality is exclusively genetic, and allowing the possibility of predisposition for pedophilia or incest also being genetic. now, whether these activities should be allowed is a whole different story. science doesnt have to account for ethics, and this is just to refute the claim that homosexuality must be genetic while other sexual abberations are not.

one of your links had APA's stance on the subject matter, and that did sound somewhat more credible. i give more nods to the current level of psychological studies than the whole brainwave thing.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: sonambulo
because they're afraid of their own sexuality.

These kind of statements just make me laugh. What am I afraid of exactly? I was born a man and I am man. I act like a man and I live as a man. I live as God or creation made me, a man. As a man I am to build a loving relationship with the OPPOSITE SEX, which is a woman. I have embraced my sexuality. If you didn't get the memo, the equipment is your sexuality. Your equipment is the truth of what you are and more importantly who you are. You can cross dress, take hormones, even get an operation, have all the man on man or woman on woman sex all you want, and absolutely love it, but the fact is all those things cover up the truth, in other words you live a lie. All the studies in world ain't gonna change what you are born as and what you are born with. I am a man and embracing my sexuality has got nothing to do with finding attraction in some other man.