Why are (many) FPS Fans bored to tears by RTS/RPG Games?

[PsharkJF]

I like playing the campaigns in SP RTS games, but I find multiplayer on RTS's to be dull.

Suggestion for an RPG : try Morrowind. Best RPG I've ever played.

However, UT2k4 > *

 

[Mem]

I love RPG games,I`ve quite a huge selection with games like BG and Icewind Dale series,M&M 6,7,8,9,both Diablo 1 and 2, Ultima 8 &9 ,Planescape Torment,Fallout 2,Scared,Lionheart, both Deus Ex games,Revant,Return to Krondor,KOTOR 1 and 2,Wizard and Warriors,to name but a few.

I`ve pre-ordered "Dungeon Lords" as well.

I`ve also notice that too many people look at graphics when it comes to RPGs,while I look at gameplay which`s the most important thing, just remember how long it takes to make RPG type games and things like bug testing will always get priority over pretty graphics because of the size and nature of RPGs..

RTS games, well XCOM type games are my favourite in this department.I`m looking forward to the XCOM clones that are on the way.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: screw3d
I am not a big fan of RPG but I really liked KotoR and KotoR II!

Yes, me too! Half of the fun of the game is levelling up properly, choosing the right feats and powers to match your class and alignment. And also equipping properly. Getting the right crystals for the saber, the right implants and armor, etc...

I think apoppin should try these games.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: malak
They are only made difficult by artificial means. The enemy simply has more strength, or more dexterity, or a spell that brings you within an inch of your life. There is no real skill involved. I have no problem building a character that is just as strong as any, I have lots of experience in that field. An FPS requires you to actually do something, to use your own skills, not the skills of your character. Even in hybrids, it's still up to you. When you win, it's because YOU did it, not your character. And that's why I like FPS's more.

malak, you make it sound like the gamer has little to nothing to do with how the character interacts in the game. In the RPGs that I've played I had lots to do with what transpired in the game, I feel confident that I was responsible for the victories and the defeats. The characters just don't pick when/how/what to attack etc...

And I do play FPS games, too, and they also require skills. They are just different skills.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: apoppin
really . . . i tried many times . . . .

i am a big fan of FPS and not just "shooters" . . . . i loved the complexities of DE and DE:IW as well as the Thief series . . . .

BUT give me a RTS or RPG and i may start with the best intentions - and after a few hours i find i just lose interest. . . .
. . . . not just RPG demos but complete games - NOX, Sanity, Might and Magic, Vampire: tM-Redemption - remain covered with dust.

Right now there is a "lull" in FPS - as we await FEAR and STALKER - the bargain bin is getting mighty slim pickins (for me anyway) . . . . and i'd again consider a "lite" RPG or RTS . . . .
. . . . gfx gotta be top-notch and the story not so "involved" . . . . maybe a fusion like DE/DE:IW.

suggestions?

ya you mentioned pretty crappy rpgs there. Any others come to mind?

Morrowind was top notch graphics a couple years ago and the gameplay is as involved as you wanna make it. Though i will say i personally got tired of Morrowind before completion. Gothic 2 is similar to Morrowind in scope and graphics. Only played Gothic 1 myself and it is quite open, though the graphics suck by today's standards. Single player rpgs are slowly losing favour with me in place of multiplayer rpgs (mmo), rts, fps, and of course large scale world sims like Civ and Alpha Centauri.

Warcraft 3 is a good single player RTS and i'm just getting in Warhammer 40k: dawn of war. RTS, imo, are 90% multiplayer. Same as FPS in fact. The single player games are for the most part multiplayer tutorials (warcraft 3 and expansion is an exception, the single player is excellent in it's own right). So with regards to RTS, don't expect too much out of them in the single player department. This is assuming you're interested in the multiplayer aspect of RTS. Are you?

Rome: Total War is definately a hybrid, same as the other total war games, combining civilization style world building and 3d real time combat. However, again i must say that Rome:TW didn't hold my interest beyond a week or two either. Once the micromanagement of cities becomes too overwhelming, these games turn into a matter of grinding out the best troops and attacking your ai opponents until they're gone. I'm referring to the civ games here as well. The end of those games is always always always a race to build crap the quickest. Early and mid game they're fun with all the stuff that needs doing and organizing but end game is always a big let down. I don't know if i've ever finished a game of civ or alpha centauri. Once it becomes apparent i've won, why continue through hours more of the ai's pathetic resistance?

That's why I prefer multiplayer in all genres these days. Even if the game has long since become samey, your opponents and therefore your games are always different. So, the most important question for almost any game as far as i'm concerned is "how cool is the multiplayer?"

All this said, I am very much looking forward to S.t.a.l.k.e.r. and it's apparent RPG/FPS blend and Morrowind: Oblivion cause i'll always be a sucker for open ended rpgs

Wow that ended up longer than i'd intended

Couple additions:
#1: I enjoyed XCOM for the research system, base building and character development above all else.

#2: I became bored with KOTOR about 2/3 through. It trailed off into every combat situation requiring too-similar tactics over and over and the skill system was tiresome and limited.

 

[Mem]

Gothic 2 is similar to Morrowind in scope and graphics. Only played Gothic 1 myself and it is quite open, though the graphics suck by today's standards

Malladine,I`ve played and finished them both,the control system in Gothic 2 has been improved over Gothic which was a good game but had terrible controls.

I enjoyed both of them,graphics in Gothic 2 are also better,btw Gothic 3 is on the way ,but no ETA as to when.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: PsharkJF
Suggestion for an RPG : try Morrowind. Best RPG I've ever played.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Megatomic
malak, you make it sound like the gamer has little to nothing to do with how the character interacts in the game. In the RPGs that I've played I had lots to do with what transpired in the game, I feel confident that I was responsible for the victories and the defeats. The characters just don't pick when/how/what to attack etc...

And I do play FPS games, too, and they also require skills. They are just different skills.

Well in my experience, I have had little to do with many RPGs. They become rather dull and boring for me quickly. But then, I'm also very skilled at FPS's. The genre I enjoy as a challenge most is RTS, as I don't believe I am that great at it. It still requires my own skill to defeat someone in an RTS, but my skill isn't that great, so it's a challenge.

RPG's are flawed in that you can plan and plan and do whatever you want, but when it comes down to it, your sword could swing right through them and it register as *MISS*. I don't like that, and I never will. I can tolerate it, but I think a hybrid would work much better.

 

[Fenixgoon]

deus ex is an awesome FPS/RPG... definitely a top notch game with a great story!
bg2 is a great SP rpg, i must have beaten in 10x

 

[BriGy86]

i dunno if this has been brought up but UT 2004 has a mod that turns it into sort of an RPG FPS

you collect stat points and level up, all while staying in FP view and shooting stuff

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Mem
I love RPG games,I`ve quite a huge selection with games like BG and Icewind Dale series,M&M 6,7,8,9,both Diablo 1 and 2, Ultima 8 &9 ,Planescape Torment,Fallout 2,Scared,Lionheart, both Deus Ex games,Revant,Return to Krondor,KOTOR 1 and 2,Wizard and Warriors,to name but a few. I`ve pre-ordered "Dungeon Lords" as well.

I`ve also notice that too many people look at graphics when it comes to RPGs,while I look at gameplay which`s the most important thing. . . .

RTS games, well XCOM type games are my favourite in this department.I`m looking forward to the XCOM clones that are on the way.

You count DeuSex as RPG? :shocked:


i thought it was more FPS with elements of RPG . . . . i really loved BOTH DeuSexes


(oops)

What is more like DeusEx?

And gfx is still very important to me . . . . i always felt RPG/RTS looks "flat" . .. . . the gameplay is the MOST important factor for me (think Doom iiii - (POS game/awesome gfx) . . . but i still don't want anything more primitive than Quake III engine.
__________________________________

Originally posted by: Megatomic

Originally posted by: screw3d
I am not a big fan of RPG but I really liked KotoR and KotoR II!

Yes, me too! Half of the fun of the game is levelling up properly, choosing the right feats and powers to match your class and alignment. And also equipping properly. Getting the right crystals for the saber, the right implants and armor, etc...

I think apoppin should try these games.

i actually did buy KoTOR a few months back but returned it unopened - after starting a thread about it here - to exchange for SW - JKII:JO which i am finishing right now. Since the gfx are NOT improved from KoTOR I to II, i will probably try the bargain bin one.

maybe
______________________________________--

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: apoppin

. . . . not just RPG demos but complete games - NOX, Sanity, Might and Magic, Vampire: tM-Redemption - remain covered with dust.

ya you mentioned pretty crappy rpgs there. Any others come to mind?

Morrowind was top notch graphics a couple years ago and the gameplay is as involved as you wanna make it. Though i will say i personally got tired of Morrowind before completion. Gothic 2 is similar to Morrowind in scope and graphics. Only played Gothic 1 myself and it is quite open, though the graphics suck by today's standards. Single player rpgs are slowly losing favour with me in place of multiplayer rpgs (mmo), rts, fps, and of course large scale world sims like Civ and Alpha Centauri.

Warcraft 3 is a good single player RTS and i'm just getting in Warhammer 40k: dawn of war. RTS, imo, are 90% multiplayer. Same as FPS in fact. The single player games are for the most part multiplayer tutorials (warcraft 3 and expansion is an exception, the single player is excellent in it's own right). So with regards to RTS, don't expect too much out of them in the single player department. This is assuming you're interested in the multiplayer aspect of RTS. Are you?

Rome: Total War is definately a hybrid, same as the other total war games, combining civilization style world building and 3d real time combat. However, again i must say that Rome:TW didn't hold my interest beyond a week or two either. Once the micromanagement of cities becomes too overwhelming, these games turn into a matter of grinding out the best troops and attacking your ai opponents until they're gone. I'm referring to the civ games here as well. The end of those games is always always always a race to build crap the quickest. Early and mid game they're fun with all the stuff that needs doing and organizing but end game is always a big let down. I don't know if i've ever finished a game of civ or alpha centauri. Once it becomes apparent i've won, why continue through hours more of the ai's pathetic resistance?

That's why I prefer multiplayer in all genres these days. Even if the game has long since become samey, your opponents and therefore your games are always different. So, the most important question for almost any game as far as i'm concerned is "how cool is the multiplayer?"

All this said, I am very much looking forward to S.t.a.l.k.e.r. and it's apparent RPG/FPS blend and Morrowind: Oblivion cause i'll always be a sucker for open ended rpgs

Wow that ended up longer than i'd intended

Couple additions:
#1: I enjoyed XCOM for the research system, base building and character development above all else.

#2: I became bored with KOTOR about 2/3 through. It trailed off into every combat situation requiring too-similar tactics over and over and the skill system was tiresome and limited.

Sure - MANY demos . . . .i.e. i remember the week on dial;-up it took to d/l the Demo for BGII . . . . then maybe spent four or five hours playing it before getting sick of the "battles" and endless conversations.

i just loose interest . . . much the way YOU mention losing interest . . . . i do NOT like spending $40-50 to find out it bores me.

Sorry, NO multiplayer . . . . i am in the country on crappy 56k dialup.


Any suggestions for something "more like" DeusEx?

 

[AnitaPeterson]

DaveSimmons, I am an avid reader... and maybe that's exactly why I can't spend too much time invested in RPG games, and FPS games appeal to me?

 

[Mem]

You count DeuSex as RPG?


i thought it was more FPS with elements of RPG . . . . i really loved BOTH DeuSexes


(oops)

What is more like DeusEx?

I class them as a sort of hybrid.True RPGs will have lots of exploration and conversation which you either love or hate,customizing your character or characters is also another fun part.

System Shock was probably the closes thing to Deus Ex IMHO.

 

[murphy55d]

What about Neverwinter Nights?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
DaveSimmons, I am an avid reader... and maybe that's exactly why I can't spend too much time invested in RPG games, and FPS games appeal to me?

My hypothesis was that those who don't read much would find it harder to immerse themselves in the less immediate world of the RPG. Oh well, so much for that theory

I love a good RPG and was hooked on UT2K4 Onslaught for several months, so being an avid reader hasn't affected me either way.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
DaveSimmons, I am an avid reader... and maybe that's exactly why I can't spend too much time invested in RPG games, and FPS games appeal to me?

My hypothesis was that those who don't read much would find it harder to immerse themselves in the less immediate world of the RPG. Oh well, so much for that theory

I love a good RPG and was hooked on UT2K4 Onslaught for several months, so being an avid reader hasn't affected me either way.

I'm pretty much the same except I grew up playing FF3 to FFX games as well as other random RPG's like Chrono Trigger, then slowly migrated to Q2 and became interested in FPS. I guess now with college and work I have no time to build levels and solve riddles like I use to love doing, so games like HL2 and UT2k4 just fit into my schedule better.. but hey, summer is around the corner and I might catch the RPG bug again, nothing beats a great RPG, I however never got into MMORPG's since they surfaced as I got into FPS more.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Mem

You count DeuSex as RPG?


i thought it was more FPS with elements of RPG . . . . i really loved BOTH DeuSexes


(oops)

What is more like DeusEx?

I class them as a sort of hybrid.True RPGs will have lots of exploration and conversation which you either love or hate,customizing your character or characters is also another fun part.

System Shock was probably the closes thing to Deus Ex IMHO.

then i really like to try the hybrids . . . . i HATE the long boring conversations (one after another) by DO like customze my charecter . . . . System Shock, huh? . . . it's really old ('94) and there is System Shock 2 which is also kinda old ('99) and it uses the Dark Engine (Thief) whick is also kinda (really) primitive. . . . .

Speaking of Thief series, it is one of my favourite series and seems to have some RPG elements - similar to DE:IW (except set in the "past").

i should have asked about modern games similar to DeusEx.
. . . or RPGs that are "lite"
:roll:

 

[PsharkJF]

Man, just think of Xcom with UT2k4 graphics. drooooooool

 

[alm4rr]

Originally posted by: apoppin
really . . . i tried many times . . . .

i am a big fan of FPS and not just "shooters" . . . . i loved the complexities of DE and DE:IW as well as the Thief series . . . .

BUT give me a RTS or RPG and i may start with the best intentions - and after a few hours i find i just lose interest. . . .
. . . . not just RPG demos but complete games - NOX, Sanity, Might and Magic, Vampire: tM-Redemption - remain covered with dust.

Right now there is a "lull" in FPS - as we await FEAR and STALKER - the bargain bin is getting mighty slim pickins (for me anyway) . . . . and i'd again consider a "lite" RPG or RTS . . . .
. . . . gfx gotta be top-notch and the story not so "involved" . . . . maybe a fusion like DE/DE:IW.

suggestions?

Try Natural Selection mod for HL

Play System Shock 2 if you like DE

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: alm4rr

Originally posted by: apoppin
really . . . i tried many times . . . .

i am a big fan of FPS and not just "shooters" . . . . i loved the complexities of DE and DE:IW as well as the Thief series . . . .

BUT give me a RTS or RPG and i may start with the best intentions - and after a few hours i find i just lose interest. . . .
. . . . not just RPG demos but complete games - NOX, Sanity, Might and Magic, Vampire: tM-Redemption - remain covered with dust.

Right now there is a "lull" in FPS - as we await FEAR and STALKER - the bargain bin is getting mighty slim pickins (for me anyway) . . . . and i'd again consider a "lite" RPG or RTS . . . .
. . . . gfx gotta be top-notch and the story not so "involved" . . . . maybe a fusion like DE/DE:IW.

suggestions?

Try Natural Selection mod for HL

Play System Shock 2 if you like DE

thanks, but you missed the "gfx gotta be top-notch" part.

at least Quake III engine

any other suggestions?

. . . . and it's getting desperate cause i just beat Desann's bad lizard butt in SW-JKII:JO last night
:roll:


KoTOR?

 

[BespinReactorShaft]

My gawd, has no-one even mentioned the title...

System Shock 2

by now? OP, I suppose it's worth a try. A combo FPS/RPG but more of an FPS than anything else.

 

[remagavon]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: alm4rr

Originally posted by: apoppin
really . . . i tried many times . . . .

i am a big fan of FPS and not just "shooters" . . . . i loved the complexities of DE and DE:IW as well as the Thief series . . . .

BUT give me a RTS or RPG and i may start with the best intentions - and after a few hours i find i just lose interest. . . .
. . . . not just RPG demos but complete games - NOX, Sanity, Might and Magic, Vampire: tM-Redemption - remain covered with dust.

Right now there is a "lull" in FPS - as we await FEAR and STALKER - the bargain bin is getting mighty slim pickins (for me anyway) . . . . and i'd again consider a "lite" RPG or RTS . . . .
. . . . gfx gotta be top-notch and the story not so "involved" . . . . maybe a fusion like DE/DE:IW.

suggestions?

Try Natural Selection mod for HL

Play System Shock 2 if you like DE

thanks, but you missed the "gfx gotta be top-notch" part.

at least Quake III engine

any other suggestions?

. . . . and it's getting desperate cause i just beat Desann's bad lizard butt in SW-JKII:JO last night
:roll:


KoTOR?

Buy system shock 2, it is one of the best games ever made. The graphics ARE primitive, however it is very stylized and looks nothing granulated like theif. You will be missing out on a fantastic game if you don't get it, it really is worth whatever you might have to pay on ebay. Probably one of the scariest FPS games I've ever played, and the atmosphere is just desolate and dire. Really, give it a chance.

 

[alm4rr]

Originally posted by: ming2020
My gawd, has no-one even mentioned the title...

System Shock 2

by now? OP, I suppose it's worth a try. A combo FPS/RPG but more of an FPS than anything else.

look two posts above yours

 

[alm4rr]

Originally posted by: remagavon

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: alm4rr

Originally posted by: apoppin
really . . . i tried many times . . . .

Buy system shock 2, it is one of the best games ever made. The graphics ARE primitive, however it is very stylized and looks nothing granulated like theif. You will be missing out on a fantastic game if you don't get it, it really is worth whatever you might have to pay on ebay. Probably one of the scariest FPS games I've ever played, and the atmosphere is just desolate and dire. Really, give it a chance.

go to www.ttlg.com and you can download updated textures, characters, etc

everything made new

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ming2020
My gawd, has no-one even mentioned the title...

System Shock 2

by now? OP, I suppose it's worth a try. A combo FPS/RPG but more of an FPS than anything else.

look at my post above . . . . SS2 uses the original Dark Engine (think Thief I) . . . pretty dated gfx.