Why Are Cigarette Smokers So Rude?

[irishScott]

No he's not. If he were, he'd be making a point to walk up to everyone he sees and blow smoke in their face. Smoker's don't do this because we mind our own business, just like non-smokers should do.

Yes, he is. Saying he isn't is like saying a dirty coal plant isn't polluting the air to the south because the smokestacks point straight up.

 

[Nik]

Yes, he is. Saying he isn't is like saying a dirty coal plant isn't polluting the air to the south because the smokestacks point straight up.

Your analogy fails..

 

[irishScott]

Your analogy fails..

And yet you decline to say how so...

Maybe you're referring to my slight error in phrasing? ("effects of his habit") The whole second hand smoke issue is as big a clusterfuck as global warming, but I'm talking about the smell here. And it's not a (relatively) involuntary temporary smell like a fart, but a smell that can last 10+ minutes depending on air currents.

 

[Nik]

And yet you decline to say how so...

Maybe you're referring to my slight error in phrasing? ("effects of his habit") The whole second hand smoke issue is as big a clusterfuck as global warming, but I'm talking about the smell here. And it's not a (relatively) involuntary temporary smell like a fart, but a smell that can last 10+ minutes depending on air currents.

My drunken roommate dropped deuce in the downstairs guest bathroom two nights ago. It still smelt like ass the next morning.

Who cares?

If I were in your shoes, I'd ban him from taking shits because my pussy ass can't handle a perceived-inconvenience that comes with communal existence.

 

[irishScott]

My drunken roommate dropped deuce in the downstairs guest bathroom two nights ago. It still smelt like ass the next morning.

Who cares?

If I were in your shoes, I'd ban him from taking shits because my pussy ass can't handle a perceived-inconvenience that comes with communal existence.

That was (depending on your guys' arrangements) on what was partially his property for one. We're talking about other people's space too here. Smokers can hit up 3 packs a day for all I care, so long as they do it in private. Would your roommate have done the same in someone else's house? Or on a public street? I doubt it. In the latter case he could be directly arrested for it no-contest, and technically arrested for it in the former.

If I were in your shoes, I'd politely remind him to clean it up, and if it he didn't do it in a couple of days I'd give him another reminder, and after that I'd get sterner and sterner and more frequent as appropriate until he did it or we'd have issues, barring a damn good reason for not doing so. Same thing I'd do to my suitemate if he did something similar to our shared bathroom, and I'd expect anyone I'm living with to do the same to me.

 

[Nik]

That was (depending on your guys' arrangements) on what was partially his property for one. We're talking about other people's space too here. Smokers can hit up 3 packs a day for all I care, so long as they do it in private. Would your roommate have done the same in someone else's house? Or on a public street? I doubt it. In the latter case he could be directly arrested for it no-contest, and technically arrested for it in the former.

If I were in your shoes, I'd politely remind him to clean it up, and if it he didn't do it in a couple of days I'd give him another reminder, and after that I'd get sterner and sterner and more frequent as appropriate until he did it or we'd have issues. Same think I'd do to my suitemate if he did something similar to our shared bathroom.

There's nothing to clean up. It just ... hung in the air.

And it's his right to be here and do that, just like it's the smoker's right to stand on the corner having a smoke in peace without some nitwit fuckhead bitching at him for smoking because it causes cancer, like he somehow doesn't already know that or like he somehow gives a shit whether you're breathing it when you could just as easily have made the choice to walk away and be somewhere else.

 

[40Hands]

Thank you for noticing.



should I continue?

You're the one saying that I was trolling and contributing nothing. I showed you some of your comments that met that exact criteria. Ignoring arguments and replying with lame one line condescending remarks is no way to contribute, kiddo.


Here's what it boils down to:

You're free to smoke yourself to death. While you're doing it, why not do simple things that can make others lives a little better? Stay away from door entrances so people inside don't get gusts of smoke every time the door is opened. How about not smoking right next to buildings so your smoke pours into peoples rooms? Putting your butts in proper receptacles in stead of throwing them on the ground.

To some smokers, these common courtesy ideas are "omgz mind your own damn business".

 

[Nik]

You're the one saying that I was trolling and contributing nothing. I showed you some of your comments that met that exact criteria. Ignoring arguments and replying with lame one line condescending remarks is no way to contribute, kiddo.

The difference being that the only thing you were posting was trolling insults. I was flinging them right back in addition to contributing, which makes me better than you, plain and simple.

Here's what it boils down to:

You're free to smoke yourself to death. While you're doing it, why not do simple things that can make others lives a little better? Stay away from door entrances so people inside don't get gusts of smoke every time the door is opened. How about not smoking right next to buildings so your smoke pours into peoples rooms? Putting your butts in proper receptacles in stead of throwing them on the ground.

I agree with and practice all of this 100%.

To some smokers, these common courtesy ideas are "omgz mind your own damn business".

The reason we push back is that non-smokers are such pussy assholes about it. Oh noes, you can smell smoke, it's the end of the world! Oh noes, there's a guy smoking on the sidewalk corner, I'd better run over to him and tell him what he's doing to himself and the environment! Psh... get lost!

 

[irishScott]

There's nothing to clean up. It just ... hung in the air.

And it's his right to be here and do that, just like it's the smoker's right to stand on the corner having a smoke in peace without some nitwit fuckhead bitching at him for smoking because it causes cancer, like he somehow doesn't already know that or like he somehow gives a shit whether you're breathing it when you could just as easily have made the choice to walk away and be somewhere else.

Well if it's just a matter of turning on the fan/keeping the door open overnight then obviously it's such a minor issue that I'd just do it. Barring that, it's his responsibility to scrub the shit out of the toilet.

And yes it is his right so long as all parties involved allow it. IMO it's not his right to do it in public anymore than it's a smoker's right to pollute a wide radius of other peoples' space with smoke. Now granted there are individual situations where the smoker isn't bothering anyone and people come up unnecessarily and harass the smoker, but we're talking generalizations here. The very idea of "public property" is a generalization, and if people can't unobtrusively drink in public, they certainly shouldn't be able to do something more intrusive.

 

[Nik]

Well if it's just a matter of turning on the fan/keeping the door open overnight then obviously it's such a minor issue that I'd just do it. Barring that, it's his responsibility to scrub the shit out of the toilet.

And yes it is his right so long as all parties involved allow it. IMO it's not his right to do it in public anymore than it's a smoker's right to pollute a wide radius of other peoples' space with smoke. Now granted there are individual situations where the smoker isn't bothering anyone and people come up unnecessarily and harass the smoker, but we're talking generalizations here. The very idea of "public property" is a generalization, and if people can't unobtrusively drink in public, they certainly shouldn't be able to do something more intrusive.

You don't own "public" any more than the smoker does. So turn your head and keep on walkin because no smoker gives a shit about your goodie-two-shoes opinion.

 

[irishScott]

You don't own "public" any more than the smoker does. So turn your head and keep on walkin because no smoker gives a shit about your goodie-two-shoes opinion.

Yes, we both own it equally. I'm not disrupting the smoker's environment with my habits. What gives him the right to disrupt mine with his?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_property

In the modern representative democracy, "public property" is synonymous to state property, which is said to be owned by the people as a commons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commons

The Commons refers to resources that are collectively owned.

 

[Nik]

Because it's his right to stand on the street corner smoking. It's not your right to tell him he can't. Plain and simple.

 

[irishScott]

Because it's his right to stand on the street corner smoking. It's not your right to tell him he can't. Plain and simple.

Legally, depending on where you go, usually it's not my right. It's the people's right to tell him he can't. We live in a representative democracy, thus if the people want a public smoking ban hard enough they vote/lobby/bribe to get one. In a more egalitarian society, given the concept of common property, if the majority of people with interest in that property were against public smoking, it would be my right to walk up to the smoker and directly tell them to stop smoking, and they'd have to comply as enforced given by whatever governmental system we're operating under.

So while IMHO it is my moral right to tell the smoker to stop, it is, in most places, not my legal right. Given our governmental system it is also not my legal right to forcibly compel or enforce my opinion on said smoker. So without other options my only legal recourse is to keep my mouth shut or start a political campaign. Given that I have better uses for my time, I've gone with the former so far, and barring the discovery that 2nd hand smoke causes AIDS will probably continue to do so. Doesn't change my moral opinion in the slightest.

 

[Nik]

That point of view is just as stupid as if I were to say that I felt morally obligated to tell you not to use gorilla avatars.

 

[40Hands]

The difference being that the only thing you were posting was trolling insults. I was flinging them right back in addition to contributing, which makes me better than you, plain and simple.





I agree with and practice all of this 100%.



The reason we push back is that non-smokers are such pussy assholes about it. Oh noes, you can smell smoke, it's the end of the world! Oh noes, there's a guy smoking on the sidewalk corner, I'd better run over to him and tell him what he's doing to himself and the environment! Psh... get lost!

I asked you to find these trolling insults of mine and you ignored it. Please show me one other then when I called you "Mr. Contributer" for your one line comment to my post.

You say that non-smokers are such pussy assholes but you probably fail to realize that a fair share of smokers are also non-caring douche bags who don't give a shit about anyone else. I'm also pretty sure that there aren't that many people that confront strangers on the street about their habits. It would be a good way to get your ass kicked.

There are assholes on both sides of the issue but just because someone doesn't care for smoking or the smell, doesn't mean they're automatically an anti-smoking asshole. This isn't a black and white issue as you seem to make it out to be.

 

[irishScott]

That point of view is just as stupid as if I were to say that I felt morally obligated to tell you not to use gorilla avatars.

If I was morally obligated I'd ignore the law.

If your system of morals has something against my avatar then, given the forum system, you can appeal to the mods, admins, or Anand himself. Or other sources if my avatar falls into another legal context. Or you can deal with me personally, in which case I will probably tell you to go fuck yourself and there is nothing you can legally do about it. Much like smokers can usually do to me today, so like I said, in the case of public smoking I usually keep my mouth shut. Is it morally right to keep my mouth shut? Not by the strictest definition IMO, but more often than not the costs of going outside the law or getting it changed outweigh the benefit. Basic human economics.

 

[Nik]

That's funny, the non-smokers seem to be making it out to be a black-and-white issue.

I ignored your request because it would be pointless to bother quoting you when you can just as easily go back and read your own posts. You're not too stupid to figure out which posts are trolling and which are contributing, are you?

Anyway, if you don't like smelling smoke, then close the vents in your car. Close the window in your home. Walk on the opposite side of the street. I don't care what you do, just keep your mouth shut because smoker's really just don't give a shit what non-smokers think. Non-smokers act like smokers are walking up to them, lighting up, and blowing it in their faces or doing some other such nonsense.

 

[Nik]

If I was morally obligated I'd ignore the law.

If your system of morals has something against my avatar then, given the forum system, you can appeal to the mods, admins, or Anand himself. Or other sources if my avatar falls into another legal context. Or you can deal with me personally, in which case I will probably tell you to go fuck yourself and there is nothing you can legally do about it. Much like smokers can usually do to me today, so like I said, in the case of public smoking I usually keep my mouth shut. Is it morally right to keep my mouth shut? Not by the strictest definition IMO, but more often than not the costs of going outside the law or getting it changed outweigh the benefit. Basic human economics.

Actually, there are indeed a few avatars I take issue with. But you know what? I mind my own goddamn business. Setting an example for non-smokers.

 

[Red Dawn]

Why are ATOT Nerds so demanding on the forums yet so timid in real life?

 

[Nik]

How many ATOT nerds do you know in real life, RD?

 

[irishScott]

Actually, there are indeed a few avatars I take issue with. But you know what? I mind my own goddamn business. Setting an example for non-smokers.

If it disrupts my environment, it's my business. Our avatars are public. Everyone has their own tolerance level before they start giving a shit. Maybe my nose is more sensitive to smoke than most (I can also smell detergent/cleaners more acutely than most of my family), but suffice to say I have a low tolerance level for it. Likewise I obviously have a higher tolerance level for other people's avatars than you, and I don't take issue with any of them thus far. Whether either trait is good or bad is all a matter of opinion in my book. (I bust out the popcorn for 2nd hand smoke threads) *shrug*

You have a right to yours, and I have a right to tell you how stupid it is.

 

[40Hands]

That's funny, the non-smokers seem to be making it out to be a black-and-white issue.

I ignored your request because it would be pointless to bother quoting you when you can just as easily go back and read your own posts. You're not too stupid to figure out which posts are trolling and which are contributing, are you?

Anyway, if you don't like smelling smoke, then close the vents in your car. Close the window in your home. Walk on the opposite side of the street. I don't care what you do, just keep your mouth shut because smoker's really just don't give a shit what non-smokers think. Non-smokers act like smokers are walking up to them, lighting up, and blowing it in their faces or doing some other such nonsense.

Just as I thought. Nothing. I read my stuff again and it was quite harmless. If anything I said before you started accusing me of trolling, was actual trolling then you're the biggest of them all. Pot meet kettle.


For someone who doesn't care about what non-smokers think, you sure are repetitively blabbing on about it. You seem a bit high strung and should calm down a bit. Maybe a nice relaxing cigarette?

 

[coloumb]

Eh - during my business trip in China - I was surprised to see they treat smokers like the US did back in the 70's - open area with the smoking section and non-smoking section. It was pretty disgusting to see them walk around with a cigarette in their mouths while getting food from the buffet [at a hotel]. Though..the cigarettes didn't smell as bad as the US brands...so it wasn't too bad.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Eh - during my business trip in China - I was surprised to see they treat smokers like the US did back in the 70's - open area with the smoking section and non-smoking section. It was pretty disgusting to see them walk around with a cigarette in their mouths while getting food from the buffet [at a hotel]. Though..the cigarettes didn't smell as bad as the US brands...so it wasn't too bad.

I for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords.

 

[Red Dawn]

How many ATOT nerds do you know in real life, RD?

Dude I know you aren't one of those, you're the little fat guy with a big mouth everybody has the misfortune of knowing.