Who's the terrorist now?

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Wrong. Sultan is misguided in making excuses for terrorist operations and justifying their action, but I do not see him approving of them. His comparisons between the Iraq War and 9/11 are wrong, but you can not say that the perspective needs to be ignored. Obviously a lot Muslims see the similiarity and if we are to win the war on terror we need to recognize that.

Again, I disagree with the man, he is obviously hurt by what he percieves to be racism towards Muslims and has some misguided ideas.

If you look around in the thread I wouldn't be surprised on why he feels there is racism towards Muslims. And maybe I have poor reading comprehension skills but I didn't see his main argument to be justifying terrorist actions. His main point is that the Muslim religion is being unfairly drawn as a terrorist religion. .

 

[Mayax]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Wrong. Sultan is misguided in making excuses for terrorist operations and justifying their action, but I do not see him approving of them. His comparisons between the Iraq War and 9/11 are wrong, but you can not say that the perspective needs to be ignored. Obviously a lot Muslims see the similiarity and if we are to win the war on terror we need to recognize that.

Again, I disagree with the man, he is obviously hurt by what he percieves to be racism towards Muslims and has some misguided ideas.

Please stop using the word racism to describe it. Muslims are not a race, period.


Muslims as a whole, have some very big problems running around amongst them. He would do well to realize that and stop making excuses for it. How is the world supposed to view them when they have so many fanatical zealots chosen as their leaders as their leaders support them?

It amazes me to no end that they would continue to keep and support Arafat. Iran keeps propping up yet another and harboring even more. Saudi Arabia's leaders have been funding and aiding them. Syria has been funding and aiding them as well. Egypt makes half-hearted attempts at control for no other reason than to stay on the US financial gravy train. Pakistan was aiding them as well until recently, it took American dollars to change their tune. Good grief, across the entire Middle East, it's nothing but aiding and abetting and very very little apprehension and more importantly, prevention.

Yet, all I ever see, is "America is the bad guy! America is the bad guy!"

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Wrong. Sultan is misguided in making excuses for terrorist operations and justifying their action, but I do not see him approving of them. His comparisons between the Iraq War and 9/11 are wrong, but you can not say that the perspective needs to be ignored. Obviously a lot Muslims see the similiarity and if we are to win the war on terror we need to recognize that.

Again, I disagree with the man, he is obviously hurt by what he percieves to be racism towards Muslims and has some misguided ideas.

I believe Sultan is a fanatical wacko. However, this does not make him a terrorist. He disagrees with the war in Iraq and he disagrees with the way Israel handles the Palestinian situation. Millions of Americans feel the same way he does. He just expresses his reasoning differently. If anyone truely believes Sultan is a terrorist then you should call the FBI. He is just a religious fanatic who has taken his religion to the extremes and beyond and is trying to live a life for himself in the U.S.

The only reason I jumped into this thread is because people were classifying all Muslims as terrorist. When I saw a beheading on TV I was furious. My mom started to cry. To go around insulting Muslims is an insult to me. Is an insult to the Muslims in the military who are fighting for this country. It is an insult for all the Muslims who are trying to make peace with the West for the actions of the terrorist.

Black people were labeled stupid not too long ago. They supposedly couldn't control their "anger". We all know this is BS, but when a violent crime was committed by a black man the white community would go around blaming every black man they saw. Imagine how they felt. Sultan feels the same way when you people go around blaming Muslims for something he has no part of.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Wrong. Sultan is misguided in making excuses for terrorist operations and justifying their action, but I do not see him approving of them. His comparisons between the Iraq War and 9/11 are wrong, but you can not say that the perspective needs to be ignored. Obviously a lot Muslims see the similiarity and if we are to win the war on terror we need to recognize that.

Again, I disagree with the man, he is obviously hurt by what he percieves to be racism towards Muslims and has some misguided ideas.

Please stop using the word racism to describe it. Muslims are not a race, period.


Muslims as a whole, have some very big problems running around amongst them. He would do well to realize that and stop making excuses for it. How is the world supposed to view them when they have so many fanatical zealots chosen as their leaders as their leaders support them?

It amazes me to no end that they would continue to keep and support Arafat. Iran keeps propping up yet another and harboring even more. Saudi Arabia's leaders have been funding and aiding them. Syria has been funding and aiding them as well. Egypt makes half-hearted attempts at control for no other reason than to stay on the US financial gravy train. Pakistan was aiding them as well until recently, it took American dollars to change their tune. Good grief, across the entire Middle East, it's nothing but aiding and abetting and very very little apprehension and more importantly, prevention.

Yet, all I ever see, is "America is the bad guy! America is the bad guy!"

All this is linked to Israel-Palestine. Not the west. By the way only the United States labels those organizations as terrorist. No other countries see it that way.

Egypt's half-hearted attempts? Egypt doesn't even allow the Islamic party to gain power. It has nothing to do with the west. They don't want them to have power.
Saudi government supporting terrorism? There is no proof.
Pakistan supported the Taliban. The Taliban are not terrorist. Al Qaeda was.

 

[Mayax]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Wrong. Sultan is misguided in making excuses for terrorist operations and justifying their action, but I do not see him approving of them. His comparisons between the Iraq War and 9/11 are wrong, but you can not say that the perspective needs to be ignored. Obviously a lot Muslims see the similiarity and if we are to win the war on terror we need to recognize that.

Again, I disagree with the man, he is obviously hurt by what he percieves to be racism towards Muslims and has some misguided ideas.

Please stop using the word racism to describe it. Muslims are not a race, period.


Muslims as a whole, have some very big problems running around amongst them. He would do well to realize that and stop making excuses for it. How is the world supposed to view them when they have so many fanatical zealots chosen as their leaders as their leaders support them?

It amazes me to no end that they would continue to keep and support Arafat. Iran keeps propping up yet another and harboring even more. Saudi Arabia's leaders have been funding and aiding them. Syria has been funding and aiding them as well. Egypt makes half-hearted attempts at control for no other reason than to stay on the US financial gravy train. Pakistan was aiding them as well until recently, it took American dollars to change their tune. Good grief, across the entire Middle East, it's nothing but aiding and abetting and very very little apprehension and more importantly, prevention.

Yet, all I ever see, is "America is the bad guy! America is the bad guy!"

All this is linked to Israel-Palestine. Not the west. By the way only the United States labels those organizations as terrorist. No other countries see it that way.

Oh please, the other Middle East countries are more guilty of keeping the Palestinians down than anyone else. The Palesitinians had their chance to form a nation of their own and they squandered it. There was no reason why they couldn't form their own country the same time Israel did. No wait, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan wouldn't let them, tha'ts right.

They got their butts kicked in the six day war, so they put together the PLO and installed them there. The PLO has kept the Palestinian people down ever since.

Israel isn't their problem, it's their own people screwing them over time and time again. There is still not a single reason why they can't get rid of the PLO, declare themselves a nation, and start doing business. They can argue borders and work out deals after that. I guess it's just easier to keep pointing fingers and crying about the Jew keeping them down.

 

[Mayax]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Wrong. Sultan is misguided in making excuses for terrorist operations and justifying their action, but I do not see him approving of them. His comparisons between the Iraq War and 9/11 are wrong, but you can not say that the perspective needs to be ignored. Obviously a lot Muslims see the similiarity and if we are to win the war on terror we need to recognize that.

Again, I disagree with the man, he is obviously hurt by what he percieves to be racism towards Muslims and has some misguided ideas.

Please stop using the word racism to describe it. Muslims are not a race, period.


Muslims as a whole, have some very big problems running around amongst them. He would do well to realize that and stop making excuses for it. How is the world supposed to view them when they have so many fanatical zealots chosen as their leaders as their leaders support them?

It amazes me to no end that they would continue to keep and support Arafat. Iran keeps propping up yet another and harboring even more. Saudi Arabia's leaders have been funding and aiding them. Syria has been funding and aiding them as well. Egypt makes half-hearted attempts at control for no other reason than to stay on the US financial gravy train. Pakistan was aiding them as well until recently, it took American dollars to change their tune. Good grief, across the entire Middle East, it's nothing but aiding and abetting and very very little apprehension and more importantly, prevention.

Yet, all I ever see, is "America is the bad guy! America is the bad guy!"

All this is linked to Israel-Palestine. Not the west. By the way only the United States labels those organizations as terrorist. No other countries see it that way.

Egypt's half-hearted attempts? Egypt doesn't even allow the Islamic party to gain power. It has nothing to do with the west. They don't want them to have power.
Saudi government supporting terrorism? There is no proof.
Pakistan supported the Taliban. The Taliban are not terrorist. Al Qaeda was.

That's some serious revisionism there.

They don't have power in Egypt but the powers that be don't put a stop to the weapons trafficking and the radicalism either. What was that deal about the Egyptian hotel that was bombed? The explosives were sold by a guy who claimed he was promised they were only going to be used in Israel.

The Saudi government did next to nothing the past fifty years while their schools were preaching that America was the great satan and Israel was her whore. Please.

The Taliban and Al Qaeda were inseperable. Al Qaeda made up a large portion of the Taliban's actual military. Tell me some more, this is getting amusing.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Wrong. Sultan is misguided in making excuses for terrorist operations and justifying their action, but I do not see him approving of them. His comparisons between the Iraq War and 9/11 are wrong, but you can not say that the perspective needs to be ignored. Obviously a lot Muslims see the similiarity and if we are to win the war on terror we need to recognize that.

Again, I disagree with the man, he is obviously hurt by what he percieves to be racism towards Muslims and has some misguided ideas.

Please stop using the word racism to describe it. Muslims are not a race, period.


Muslims as a whole, have some very big problems running around amongst them. He would do well to realize that and stop making excuses for it. How is the world supposed to view them when they have so many fanatical zealots chosen as their leaders as their leaders support them?

It amazes me to no end that they would continue to keep and support Arafat. Iran keeps propping up yet another and harboring even more. Saudi Arabia's leaders have been funding and aiding them. Syria has been funding and aiding them as well. Egypt makes half-hearted attempts at control for no other reason than to stay on the US financial gravy train. Pakistan was aiding them as well until recently, it took American dollars to change their tune. Good grief, across the entire Middle East, it's nothing but aiding and abetting and very very little apprehension and more importantly, prevention.

Yet, all I ever see, is "America is the bad guy! America is the bad guy!"

All this is linked to Israel-Palestine. Not the west. By the way only the United States labels those organizations as terrorist. No other countries see it that way.

Oh please, the other Middle East countries are more guilty of keeping the Palestinians down than anyone else. The Palesitinians had their chance to form a nation of their own and they squandered it. There was no reason why they couldn't form their own country the same time Israel did. No wait, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan wouldn't let them, tha'ts right.

They got their butts kicked in the six day war, so they put together the PLO and installed them there. The PLO has kept the Palestinian people down ever since.

Israel isn't their problem, it's their own people screwing them over time and time again. There is still not a single reason why they can't get rid of the PLO, declare themselves a nation, and start doing business. They can argue borders and work out deals after that. I guess it's just easier to keep pointing fingers and crying about the Jew keeping them down.

Palestinians are slaves to the world including their own Arab neighbors. Again you are generalizing. This is a Palestinian problem not a Muslim problem. Even if you want to throw the entire M.E population into this that's still 25% of the Muslim population. The neighbors around Israel are doing just fine and you don't hear them nagging. They worked out their issues long ago. Palestine has issues it needs to resolve (die arafat?).

 

[Corn]

Excellent discussion.

 

[FinalFantasy]

There is no real "correct" answer to this question you are asking, "Who's the terrorist now?" Actually there are multiple answers, but it all depends on:

1. Where you live
2. What you believe in (religion, morals etc.)
3. Race/Gender/etc.

This link has a good summary in it about peoples view on the definition of a terrorist.
http://www.therationalradical....rrorist-definition.htm

"Currently, the term "terrorist" is applied to the use of force most often on the basis of whether the speaker agrees with the goal of the violence. Hence the expression 'One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.'"

Really when you think about it, everyone IS a terrorist. To someone in this world, their definition of what a terrorist is, would directly classify YOU. To Osama Bin Laden, America and it's citizens are terrorist. To America Al Queda, Sadam, Bin Laden etc. are terrorist. To some of the African nations, America is a terrorist country.

Just like the saying goes, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". There is no point in arguing this, essentially everyone in this world is a terrorist. According to someone opinion/thoughts or definition of a terrorist, you and I are one.

Could you imagine sitting in your house one day and all of a sudden, a shower of cruise missles starts tearing the $h)t out of your town. One of the missles hits close to your house destorying half of it and leaving your father, one of your brothers and your little sister trapped, dead, under the rubble. Your mother is critically injured and your arm is all but useless. You have to dig out the mutilated bodies of your loved ones, piece by piece while your mother is in the hospital dying. How would you feel about the people that did that to your town? They say that there was ONE or TWO SUSPECTED terrorist leaders in the VICINITY of your town and that was the reason why they sent 45 cruise missles into your your city. (A little overkill no?) What gives another country the right to send their naval boats to the coast of, let's say, CA and start bombing the $h)t out of Los Angeles? I would hate the country that did that...but wait...America does that and is doing that to Afghanistan and Iraq...in the "name of freedom and democracy". No wonder why countries hate what we stand for and our moto of "freedom", lol. Who the hell is America, as a county in a WORLD filled with countries, to think they have the God given right to bomb and kill 250 innocent civilians to kill maybe 4 or 5 terrorist and then call the innocent civilians "casulties of war" or "terrorist" when they were not.

I fully support my country, the USA and our military forces, but you have to look at it from the other person's perspective. That's their life they have to live. No one hear can imagine the $h)t these people go through on a DAILY basis...heh...and you got it tough. Until you have to hold the body of your son or mother in your hands w/the torso in one arm and the legs in another, don't complain about who's the real terrorist, because you support either the US army/naval force/etc and their doings (bombings/invasions/etc) or you support Al Queda/Bin Laden/etc and either way you ARE a terrorist. And the $h)t I metioned above is real life, not the movies, that kind of stuff really does happen. Educate yourself and don't have a biased opinion.

 

[faiznne]

I can't believe bush ran this ad in my home state of Ohio...

Check it out, it's a TV commercial (Right-click, Save Target As...)
http://www.georgewbush.org/spo...false-christian-hi.wmv

 

[Mayax]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Wrong. Sultan is misguided in making excuses for terrorist operations and justifying their action, but I do not see him approving of them. His comparisons between the Iraq War and 9/11 are wrong, but you can not say that the perspective needs to be ignored. Obviously a lot Muslims see the similiarity and if we are to win the war on terror we need to recognize that.

Again, I disagree with the man, he is obviously hurt by what he percieves to be racism towards Muslims and has some misguided ideas.

Please stop using the word racism to describe it. Muslims are not a race, period.


Muslims as a whole, have some very big problems running around amongst them. He would do well to realize that and stop making excuses for it. How is the world supposed to view them when they have so many fanatical zealots chosen as their leaders as their leaders support them?

It amazes me to no end that they would continue to keep and support Arafat. Iran keeps propping up yet another and harboring even more. Saudi Arabia's leaders have been funding and aiding them. Syria has been funding and aiding them as well. Egypt makes half-hearted attempts at control for no other reason than to stay on the US financial gravy train. Pakistan was aiding them as well until recently, it took American dollars to change their tune. Good grief, across the entire Middle East, it's nothing but aiding and abetting and very very little apprehension and more importantly, prevention.

Yet, all I ever see, is "America is the bad guy! America is the bad guy!"

All this is linked to Israel-Palestine. Not the west. By the way only the United States labels those organizations as terrorist. No other countries see it that way.

Oh please, the other Middle East countries are more guilty of keeping the Palestinians down than anyone else. The Palesitinians had their chance to form a nation of their own and they squandered it. There was no reason why they couldn't form their own country the same time Israel did. No wait, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan wouldn't let them, tha'ts right.

They got their butts kicked in the six day war, so they put together the PLO and installed them there. The PLO has kept the Palestinian people down ever since.

Israel isn't their problem, it's their own people screwing them over time and time again. There is still not a single reason why they can't get rid of the PLO, declare themselves a nation, and start doing business. They can argue borders and work out deals after that. I guess it's just easier to keep pointing fingers and crying about the Jew keeping them down.

Palestinians are slaves to the world including their own Arab neighbors. Again you are generalizing. This is a Palestinian problem not a Muslim problem. Even if you want to throw the entire M.E population into this that's still 25% of the Muslim population. The neighbors around Israel are doing just fine and you don't hear them nagging. They worked out their issues long ago. Palestine has issues it needs to resolve (die arafat?).

Sorry the PLO is a Muslim extremist organization and this problem goes beyond even the ME. Pakistan's involvement wasn't limited to Afghanistan either. Their extremists have been responsible for more than a few attacks in India. I still hear Syria nagging, I still hear Iran nagging, I still hear Saudi Arabia nagging, I used to hear Iraq nagging until last year, I still hear Yemen nagging, I even still hear Kuwait nagging from time to time.

 

[faiznne]

Look, this funny TV commercial will loosen up the fanatics on both sides.

Check it out, it's a TV commercial
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...2&threadid=1426888

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Wrong. Sultan is misguided in making excuses for terrorist operations and justifying their action, but I do not see him approving of them. His comparisons between the Iraq War and 9/11 are wrong, but you can not say that the perspective needs to be ignored. Obviously a lot Muslims see the similiarity and if we are to win the war on terror we need to recognize that.

Again, I disagree with the man, he is obviously hurt by what he percieves to be racism towards Muslims and has some misguided ideas.

Please stop using the word racism to describe it. Muslims are not a race, period.


Muslims as a whole, have some very big problems running around amongst them. He would do well to realize that and stop making excuses for it. How is the world supposed to view them when they have so many fanatical zealots chosen as their leaders as their leaders support them?

It amazes me to no end that they would continue to keep and support Arafat. Iran keeps propping up yet another and harboring even more. Saudi Arabia's leaders have been funding and aiding them. Syria has been funding and aiding them as well. Egypt makes half-hearted attempts at control for no other reason than to stay on the US financial gravy train. Pakistan was aiding them as well until recently, it took American dollars to change their tune. Good grief, across the entire Middle East, it's nothing but aiding and abetting and very very little apprehension and more importantly, prevention.

Yet, all I ever see, is "America is the bad guy! America is the bad guy!"

All this is linked to Israel-Palestine. Not the west. By the way only the United States labels those organizations as terrorist. No other countries see it that way.

Oh please, the other Middle East countries are more guilty of keeping the Palestinians down than anyone else. The Palesitinians had their chance to form a nation of their own and they squandered it. There was no reason why they couldn't form their own country the same time Israel did. No wait, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan wouldn't let them, tha'ts right.

They got their butts kicked in the six day war, so they put together the PLO and installed them there. The PLO has kept the Palestinian people down ever since.

Israel isn't their problem, it's their own people screwing them over time and time again. There is still not a single reason why they can't get rid of the PLO, declare themselves a nation, and start doing business. They can argue borders and work out deals after that. I guess it's just easier to keep pointing fingers and crying about the Jew keeping them down.

Palestinians are slaves to the world including their own Arab neighbors. Again you are generalizing. This is a Palestinian problem not a Muslim problem. Even if you want to throw the entire M.E population into this that's still 25% of the Muslim population. The neighbors around Israel are doing just fine and you don't hear them nagging. They worked out their issues long ago. Palestine has issues it needs to resolve (die arafat?).

Sorry the PLO is a Muslim extremist organization and this problem goes beyond even the ME. Pakistan's involvement wasn't limited to Afghanistan either. Their extremists have been responsible for more than a few attacks in India. I still hear Syria nagging, I still hear Iran nagging, I still hear Saudi Arabia nagging, I used to hear Iraq nagging until last year, I still hear Yemen nagging, I even still hear Kuwait nagging from time to time.

They can nag all they want. Just like the U.S nags about Israel.

Again you are linking everything to the Palestinian Issue. It's exactly that. A Palestinian/Israel issue. Other countries are free to support whoever they want. Israel only has 1 strong ally and that is the U.S. Europe does not exactly see eye 2 eye with Israel.

 

[Mayax]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Wrong. Sultan is misguided in making excuses for terrorist operations and justifying their action, but I do not see him approving of them. His comparisons between the Iraq War and 9/11 are wrong, but you can not say that the perspective needs to be ignored. Obviously a lot Muslims see the similiarity and if we are to win the war on terror we need to recognize that.

Again, I disagree with the man, he is obviously hurt by what he percieves to be racism towards Muslims and has some misguided ideas.

Please stop using the word racism to describe it. Muslims are not a race, period.


Muslims as a whole, have some very big problems running around amongst them. He would do well to realize that and stop making excuses for it. How is the world supposed to view them when they have so many fanatical zealots chosen as their leaders as their leaders support them?

It amazes me to no end that they would continue to keep and support Arafat. Iran keeps propping up yet another and harboring even more. Saudi Arabia's leaders have been funding and aiding them. Syria has been funding and aiding them as well. Egypt makes half-hearted attempts at control for no other reason than to stay on the US financial gravy train. Pakistan was aiding them as well until recently, it took American dollars to change their tune. Good grief, across the entire Middle East, it's nothing but aiding and abetting and very very little apprehension and more importantly, prevention.

Yet, all I ever see, is "America is the bad guy! America is the bad guy!"

All this is linked to Israel-Palestine. Not the west. By the way only the United States labels those organizations as terrorist. No other countries see it that way.

Oh please, the other Middle East countries are more guilty of keeping the Palestinians down than anyone else. The Palesitinians had their chance to form a nation of their own and they squandered it. There was no reason why they couldn't form their own country the same time Israel did. No wait, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan wouldn't let them, tha'ts right.

They got their butts kicked in the six day war, so they put together the PLO and installed them there. The PLO has kept the Palestinian people down ever since.

Israel isn't their problem, it's their own people screwing them over time and time again. There is still not a single reason why they can't get rid of the PLO, declare themselves a nation, and start doing business. They can argue borders and work out deals after that. I guess it's just easier to keep pointing fingers and crying about the Jew keeping them down.

Palestinians are slaves to the world including their own Arab neighbors. Again you are generalizing. This is a Palestinian problem not a Muslim problem. Even if you want to throw the entire M.E population into this that's still 25% of the Muslim population. The neighbors around Israel are doing just fine and you don't hear them nagging. They worked out their issues long ago. Palestine has issues it needs to resolve (die arafat?).

Sorry the PLO is a Muslim extremist organization and this problem goes beyond even the ME. Pakistan's involvement wasn't limited to Afghanistan either. Their extremists have been responsible for more than a few attacks in India. I still hear Syria nagging, I still hear Iran nagging, I still hear Saudi Arabia nagging, I used to hear Iraq nagging until last year, I still hear Yemen nagging, I even still hear Kuwait nagging from time to time.

They can nag all they want. Just like the U.S nags about Israel.

Again you are linking everything to the Palestinian Issue. It's exactly that. A Palestinian/Israel issue. Other countries are free to support whoever they want. Israel only has 1 strong ally and that is the U.S. Europe does not exactly see eye 2 eye with Israel.

You said it all goes back to the Palestinian/Israel conflict so I'm dealing with it there and telling you we're blamed for what is essentially a problem of their own making. I understand Europe doesn't see eye to eye with Israel. There's also a very strong streak of anti-semitism that's been running through Europe for over a hundred years. I expect Europe to be clueless, it always has been and I see no reason for it to change any time soon. In fact, I think it's just getting worse. Hell, the damn British occupation was anti-semitic. Year after year they put quotas on Jewish immigration while the sky was the limit on Arab immigration to the area.

Also, it's gone beyond nagging when Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Egypt are still providing explosives and arms to the PLO. Oh yea, they really settled those differences with Israel.

 

[faiznne]

Originally posted by: Mayax
You said it all goes back to the Palestinian/Israel conflict so I'm dealing with it there and telling you we're blamed for what is essentially a problem of their own making. I understand Europe doesn't see eye to eye with Israel.

The reason the Palestinians or Muslims do suicide attacks is because they are driven to it. Their homes are destroyed by Israeli bulldozers, they lose their jobs, they become poor because they have no home and jobs, all of this is caused by Israel. Israel imposes curfews on the Palestinians and disrupt the ambulances that come to aid the Muslims. They do everything they can to disrupt and humiliate the lives of these Muslims.

But the Muslims don't have Apache helicopters or guns, they just have homemade bombs. America gives $3 billion each year to Israel while the Palestinians get close to nothing. And the $3 billion that Israel gets is just the beginning, America gives Israel even more loans and free grants. And the loans are forgiven in the future. So Israel never defaults on their loans since they never have to pay them back.

There are no Asians or Europeans facing these predicaments. None of the the Eurasians are starving or homeless. While millions of Palestinians are broke and homeless.

And there's also the infamous "Jewish lobby" that influences American foreign policy in favor of the Israelis at the detriment of the Arabs. AIPAC-- American Israel Public Affairs Committee-- the 2nd strongest lobbying group in America, only after the NRA.

AIPAC information: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...5467&enterthread=y

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Mayax

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Wrong. Sultan is misguided in making excuses for terrorist operations and justifying their action, but I do not see him approving of them. His comparisons between the Iraq War and 9/11 are wrong, but you can not say that the perspective needs to be ignored. Obviously a lot Muslims see the similiarity and if we are to win the war on terror we need to recognize that.

Again, I disagree with the man, he is obviously hurt by what he percieves to be racism towards Muslims and has some misguided ideas.

Please stop using the word racism to describe it. Muslims are not a race, period.


Muslims as a whole, have some very big problems running around amongst them. He would do well to realize that and stop making excuses for it. How is the world supposed to view them when they have so many fanatical zealots chosen as their leaders as their leaders support them?

It amazes me to no end that they would continue to keep and support Arafat. Iran keeps propping up yet another and harboring even more. Saudi Arabia's leaders have been funding and aiding them. Syria has been funding and aiding them as well. Egypt makes half-hearted attempts at control for no other reason than to stay on the US financial gravy train. Pakistan was aiding them as well until recently, it took American dollars to change their tune. Good grief, across the entire Middle East, it's nothing but aiding and abetting and very very little apprehension and more importantly, prevention.

Yet, all I ever see, is "America is the bad guy! America is the bad guy!"

All this is linked to Israel-Palestine. Not the west. By the way only the United States labels those organizations as terrorist. No other countries see it that way.

Oh please, the other Middle East countries are more guilty of keeping the Palestinians down than anyone else. The Palesitinians had their chance to form a nation of their own and they squandered it. There was no reason why they couldn't form their own country the same time Israel did. No wait, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan wouldn't let them, tha'ts right.

They got their butts kicked in the six day war, so they put together the PLO and installed them there. The PLO has kept the Palestinian people down ever since.

Israel isn't their problem, it's their own people screwing them over time and time again. There is still not a single reason why they can't get rid of the PLO, declare themselves a nation, and start doing business. They can argue borders and work out deals after that. I guess it's just easier to keep pointing fingers and crying about the Jew keeping them down.

Palestinians are slaves to the world including their own Arab neighbors. Again you are generalizing. This is a Palestinian problem not a Muslim problem. Even if you want to throw the entire M.E population into this that's still 25% of the Muslim population. The neighbors around Israel are doing just fine and you don't hear them nagging. They worked out their issues long ago. Palestine has issues it needs to resolve (die arafat?).

Sorry the PLO is a Muslim extremist organization and this problem goes beyond even the ME. Pakistan's involvement wasn't limited to Afghanistan either. Their extremists have been responsible for more than a few attacks in India. I still hear Syria nagging, I still hear Iran nagging, I still hear Saudi Arabia nagging, I used to hear Iraq nagging until last year, I still hear Yemen nagging, I even still hear Kuwait nagging from time to time.

They can nag all they want. Just like the U.S nags about Israel.

Again you are linking everything to the Palestinian Issue. It's exactly that. A Palestinian/Israel issue. Other countries are free to support whoever they want. Israel only has 1 strong ally and that is the U.S. Europe does not exactly see eye 2 eye with Israel.

You said it all goes back to the Palestinian/Israel conflict so I'm dealing with it there and telling you we're blamed for what is essentially a problem of their own making. I understand Europe doesn't see eye to eye with Israel. There's also a very strong streak of anti-semitism that's been running through Europe for over a hundred years. I expect Europe to be clueless, it always has been and I see no reason for it to change any time soon. In fact, I think it's just getting worse. Hell, the damn British occupation was anti-semitic. Year after year they put quotas on Jewish immigration while the sky was the limit on Arab immigration to the area.

Also, it's gone beyond nagging when Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Egypt are still providing explosives and arms to the PLO. Oh yea, they really settled those differences with Israel.

U.S gives weapons to Israel who uses them to kill civilians. Iran/Syria(?) give weapons to Hezbollah. Egypt/Saudi Arabia have top of the line U.S military equipment. They do not give weapons to the PLO. Weapons are smuggled in to the PLO. The PLO has crap weapons for Egypt/Saudi Arabia to give them weapons.

 

[Mayax]

Originally posted by: faiznne

Originally posted by: Mayax
You said it all goes back to the Palestinian/Israel conflict so I'm dealing with it there and telling you we're blamed for what is essentially a problem of their own making. I understand Europe doesn't see eye to eye with Israel.

The reason the Palestinians or Muslims do suicide attacks is because they are driven to it. Their homes are destroyed by Israeli bulldozers, they lose their jobs, they become poor because they have no home and jobs, all of this is caused by Israel. Israel imposes curfews on the Palestinians and disrupt the ambulances that come to aid the Muslims. They do everything they can to disrupt and humiliate the lives of these Muslims.

But the Muslims don't have Apache helicopters or guns, they just have homemade bombs. America gives $3 billion each year to Israel while the Palestinians get close to nothing. And the $3 billion that Israel gets is just the beginning, America gives Israel even more loans and free grants. And the loans are forgiven in the future. So Israel never defaults on their loans since they never have to pay them back.

There are no Asians or Europeans facing these predicaments. None of the the Eurasians are starving or homeless. While millions of Palestinians are broke and homeless.

And there's also the infamous "Jewish lobby" that influences American foreign policy in favor of the Israelis at the detriment of the Arabs. AIPAC-- American Israel Public Affairs Committee-- the 2nd strongest lobbying group in America, only after the NRA.

AIPAC information: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...5467&enterthread=y

Driven to it? Bullshiat. They use it as a bargaining chip. They've been suicide bombing long before Israel broke out the bulldozers. Arafat and and the PLO have been launching terrorist attacks at Israel since the 60's. They started doing it out of Jordan, got run out by King Hussein before Israel declared war on him, then moved to Lebannon until Israel ran them out, then they moved on to Tunis. The Arab countries finally installed him in the Palestinian territory when Egypt, Syria, and Jordan relinquished control of the Palestinian areas so Israel could no longer justify kicking whoever's ass was harboring him when he ran his attacks.

Sorry, I remember what happened when Clinton tried to broker a peace deal. Every time it seemed like Arafat was meeting resistance at the table, a suicide bomber blew up in Israel.

What did Arafat agree to in the Oslo accords? He agreed he would remove the objective of destroying Israel from the PLO charter. Guess what, it's still there.

 

[faiznne]

The Israeli Jews should be the bigger man and just put down its helicopters, bulldozers, and guns to talk to the Arabs peacefully. Maybe if you stop building settlements on illegally occupied territory, and STOP bulldozing their homes, stop treating the Palestinians like 3rd-class citizens, then maybe you'll STOP the world from hating Israel's genocide against the Palestinians. Oops, did I say the world? I meant, the world minus the U.S. and Israel.

 

[Mayax]

Originally posted by: faiznne
The Israeli Jews should be the bigger man and just put down its helicopters, bulldozers, and guns to talk to the Arabs peacefully. Maybe if you stop building settlements on illegally occupied territory, and STOP bulldozing their homes, stop treating the Palestinians like 3rd-class citizens, then maybe you'll STOP the world from hating Israel's genocide against the Palestinians. Oops, did I say the world? I meant, the world minus the U.S. and Israel.

They did leave them alone after the Oslo accords but Arafat couldn't stand the silence. They had some peace for a little while until the Palestinians couldn't handle Sharon visiting some ancient Jewish temple that's like the second holiest place for Jews that now has a mosque stuck on top. Hundreds of Jews go there every day but the Palestinians couldn't handle Sharon showing up and it snow balled from there. It wasn't but a week later before the suicide bombers started going off in Israel again.

Also, what happened every time when Israel tried to pull out? A suicide bomber went off in Israel. Hamas couldn't stand to appear weak and always had to get in their parting shots.

 

[faiznne]

Is that why an Israeli murdered Yitzhak Rabin? If an Israeli Jew was soooo extreme that he murdered his own prime minister, then it wouldn't be too far to conjecture that the same extremist group would stage suicide bombings on their own citizens. In order to use them as a context to spread the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

I have read in newspapers that the Jewish intelligence agency has infiltrated Hamas with many secret agents in the top ranks. They can make suicide bombings happen whenever they want. By tricking Muslim kids into doing their dirty work. The Muslim kids don't know who they are fighting for now.

And "the state of affairs in Israel is religious discrimination. Because of the critical housing shortage in Israel and because of racism. Housing is allotted as follows:

*Ashkenazi Jews who have LIVED IN ISRAEL FOR MANY YEARS are given first choice.

*Second in line are Ashkenazi Jews FROM EUROPE -- especially if they marry and Israeli born Askenazi Jew

*The next favored are Ashkenazi Jews FROM THE U.S.- especially if they marry an Israeli born Ashkenazi

*Sephardic Jews have the next choice of whatever housing is left.

*At the bottom of the list are Muslims, Druze and Christians.

Opportunities for employment follow the same pattern: Ashkenazi Jews get the choicest jobs, Sephardic Jews next, and Muslim, Druze and Christians fill the menial jobs with a great many left

unemployed. And everyone in Israel has to carry a card to identify which class they are in. It's like South Africa apartheid all over again.

Even though I was an Askenazi Jew from the U.S., I was placed lower on the list for housing because I had married a Sephardic Jewess.

Being denied housing was my second experience of the intense racism that exists in Israel. From the very beginning of my arrival in Israel, many slurs were yelled at me. We American Jews were

barely being tolerated.

Because Israel, to survive, must depend on gifts of American taxpayers' money, donations from American Jews and sale of worthless Israeli Bonds in America, there is jealousy among the elite Israeli

Ashkenazi Jews toward American Jews. Even if the American Jews are also Ashkenazi. Many times I was told, 'Go home!' and 'We want your money, but not you.'

However, there was a segment of the American Jews who were welcome and given favored treatment -- they were the card-carrying COMMUNIST JewS."

Source: http://www.worldnewsstand.net/history/Zionist.htm

 

[Mayax]

Originally posted by: faiznne
Is that why an Israeli murdered Yitzhak Rabin? If an Israeli Jew was soooo extreme that he murdered his own prime minister, then it wouldn't be too far to conjecture that the same extremist group would stage suicide bombings on their own citizens. In order to use them as a context to spread the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

I have read in newspapers that the Jewish intelligence agency has infiltrated Hamas with many secret agents in the top ranks. They can make suicide bombings happen whenever they want. By tricking Muslim kids into doing their dirty work. The Muslim kids don't know who they are fighting for now.

And "the state of affairs in Israel is religious discrimination. Because of the critical housing shortage in Israel and because of racism. Housing is allotted as follows:

*Ashkenazi Jews who have LIVED IN ISRAEL FOR MANY YEARS are given first choice.

*Second in line are Ashkenazi Jews FROM EUROPE -- especially if they marry and Israeli born Askenazi Jew

*The next favored are Ashkenazi Jews FROM THE U.S.- especially if they marry an Israeli born Ashkenazi

*Sephardic Jews have the next choice of whatever housing is left.

*At the bottom of the list are Muslims, Druze and Christians.

Opportunities for employment follow the same pattern: Ashkenazi Jews get the choicest jobs, Sephardic Jews next, and Muslim, Druze and Christians fill the menial jobs with a great many left

unemployed. And everyone in Israel has to carry a card to identify which class they are in. It's like South Africa apartheid all over again.

Even though I was an Askenazi Jew from the U.S., I was placed lower on the list for housing because I had married a Sephardic Jewess.

Being denied housing was my second experience of the intense racism that exists in Israel. From the very beginning of my arrival in Israel, many slurs were yelled at me. We American Jews were

barely being tolerated.

Because Israel, to survive, must depend on gifts of American taxpayers' money, donations from American Jews and sale of worthless Israeli Bonds in America, there is jealousy among the elite Israeli

Ashkenazi Jews toward American Jews. Even if the American Jews are also Ashkenazi. Many times I was told, 'Go home!' and 'We want your money, but not you.'

However, there was a segment of the American Jews who were welcome and given favored treatment -- they were the card-carrying COMMUNIST JewS."

Source: http://www.worldnewsstand.net/history/Zionist.htm

I'm sorry I'm wasn't warned ahead of time that tin-foil would be required for this discussion.

I came ill-prepared to discuss the Illuminati, the Lords of Zion, and the beast behind the rose. Give me fair warning next time so I can have the proper head attire.

 

[Bumrush99]

faiznne, stop trolling. You have your own agenda, go spread it the yahoo discussion boards and stop using racist sites to post your "facts" like in the other post where you copied and pasted information from David Duke and other white supremasist websites.

Post

The question revolves around racism towards Muslims, not the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

 

[Metron]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Yolner
99% of terrorist acts in the last few years commited by muslims.... What other facts do you need?

99%? Show me proof. Define terrorism. Thanks.

stop talking if you have no proof or facts. What university are you trying to get into? Radford? You have no brains, seriously. I told you kids need to go to kidsPnN.com. Where is your buttbuddy Trente to come defend you?

I could careless about the world. We see lots of terrorism in the United States don't we. Every single day. Damn these Muslims. Kick them out.

Aimster,

You could care less? So you do care then about how Muslims are perceived by the rest of the world... *smirk*

If you're going to use cliches, get them right... e.g. "I couldn't (or could NOT) care less."

My point: what I do see missing from most Muslim perspectives is that they don't acknowledge that members of THEIR religion have stepped over the line. Instead you offer statements like "..19 Arabs..." not 19 Muslims were responsible for the 9/11 attack. You won't accept or even acknowledge any responsibility that a Muslim is at fault. Why is that?

Maybe that's a cultural difference between Christians and Muslims, but I find it highly disheartening. Americans were saddened and disheartened by the actions of the military at Abu Grabe, and we didn't start spouting excuses like: "But they were not Americans..." or "But they were not Christians...". We accept and acknowledge that mistakes were made, and we're trying to hold those responsible to be accountable for their actions.

My question to you and the OP is: Why can't Muslims do the same?

Metron

 

[Klixxer]

I am Jewish, Muslims are closer to the Jews than either of us will ever be to Christians, most Jews don't understand that though, handouts from the US will always make Israel the prisoner of the Christians and the enemy of the Jews.

It is sad, but what IS true is that you could put people like Trente (Jewish), Sultan (Muslim) and CycloWizard (Christian) and apply the same label to all of them, they are the danger to the modern society, they have no use for their minds, they follow a scripture that is very old and try to apply that to todays standards, they are all what is wrong with this world, yet i will respect them ALL if they keep their morality and belief systems to themselves, but will they do that, NO, of course not. Not even Trente, who SHOULD know better.

Send them ALL where they belong, to hell with these moronic idiot fundamentalists, let the world be built on HUMAN principles, this neochristian-jewish-muslim initiative is just idiocy, it has NOTHING to do with humanity, it is just because idiots need to point fingers and say "at least we are better than them".

 

[faiznne]

Racist? Who was the one that killed their own prime minister Yitzhak Rabin? A Muslim? No. An Israeli Jew did.

I never posted a link to any racist websites. And it's funny how any criticism of Israel is called anti-Semitic... or any slight display of so-called "White pride" is labeled racist. While all the blacks, Asians, Jews, Hispanics, Indians, etc. are allowed to be "proud" of their race.

Yay for Black Pride! Asian Pride! White Pride? NO, THAT'S RACIST. lmao.