White House to Push Gun Control

[monovillage]

I'm sure your little vote changes the world, you are just and idiot who thinks he's more important than he is, of course that's just me flapping my gums, it's an opinion that means as much as everything you post on here.

How did your vote go on the United Kingdom referendum on the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe ? Did your vote count ? lol

 

[HAL9000]

How did your vote go on the United Kingdom referendum on the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe ? Did your vote count ? lol

No it didn't was I arguing that my votes count more than yours do... I must have missed that.

 

[alkemyst]

Myth: The United States is the source of 90% of drug syndicate guns in Mexico

Fact: This is an often misquoted data point from the BATFE, who said 90% of the firearms that have been interdicted in transport to Mexico or recovered in Mexico came from the United States. Thus the 90% number includes only the firearms American and Mexican police stop in transport.70

Fact: The original number was derived from the number of firearms successfully traced, not the total number of firearms. For 2007-2008, Mexican officials recovered approximately 29,000 firearms from crime scenes and asked for BATFE traces of 11,000. Of those, the BATFE could trace roughly 6,000 of which 5,114 were confirmed to have come from the United States. Thus, 83% of the crime guns recovered in Mexico have not been or cannot be traced to America.71

Fact: Mexican drug syndicates can buy guns anywhere. For the relatively underpowered civilian rifles coming from the United States, drug runners would pay between 300% and 400% above the market price. Thus they can and are buying guns around the world.72

Fact: Mexican drug cartels – with a $40 billion in annual revenues – have military armament that includes hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions, antitank rockets and assault rifles smuggled from Central American countries.73 These are infantry weapons bought from around the world and not civilian “assault weapon” rifles from the United States.

Myth: Thousands of guns go into Mexico from the U.S. every day

Fact: In Senate Committee testimony, the BAFTE said the number was likely at worst in the “hundreds”.75 For 2007 and 2008, the average for all seizures was closer to 40 per day (29,000/730), only a fraction of which came from the USA by any means.

Myth: Mexico seizes 2,000 guns a day from the United States

Fact: The Mexican attorney general’s office reports seizing 29,000 weapons in all of 2007 and 2008, or about 14,500 a year. And that is all weapons, regardless of country of origin.74 Had they seized approximately 2,000 per day, the total number of seized guns would be closer to 1,460,000.

http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf

Sadly the thing is even if those statistics were true in showing what they wanted, in America; 'FEAR' was never to be our decider in our laws. Yet today it's commonplace.

What needs to happen is more gun EDUCATION and stiffer punishments esp for those whose guns get stolen from their homes.

Also penalties for owning 'illegal' guns and doing crimes with them should be much higher.

Here in Florida it's 10-20-Life, but sadly that's only on paper. Too many bleeding hearts don't see Joe Gangbanger when he shows up to court with conservative haircut, his tattoos covered up and in a suit.

I don't own a handgun, my wife was extremely afraid of them and felt we didn't need them..in the past 10 years of living here (she came from Japan) she feels bad that she's become 'racist' towards certain groups of people based on how they look.

She's also far more open to me owning and carrying a gun now that I have taken her shooting (she still hates automatics kicking their casings in the air so sticks with revolvers) and how simple interactions I have had with asshats have escalated into heated exchanges.

 

[bfdd]

Huh? I see Kinder Eggs for sale - including for kids - and there are laws against endangering kids leaving loaded guns lying around.

The US does have ridiculously under-regulated guns, but those examples are wrong in trying to prove it.

The gun store that over 500 AK-47s to Mexican Cartels - and the lack of any need to even report the sale of such rifles - that's under-regulation.

If you believe the President of Mexico and believe Americans are arming the Mexican Cartel with AK-47s you are retarded. The Mexican drug cartels are not rolling up into the USA and putting in orders for guns legally. They are getting weapons illegally, mostly through corrupt cops and military men that are on their pay roll. MEXICAN cops and MEXICAN military men.

Craig, when you have access to tens of, if not hundreds of, millions of dollars and you already live outside the law, getting things like guns outside the law is not very hard.

 

[Darwin333]

Huh? I see Kinder Eggs for sale - including for kids - and there are laws against endangering kids leaving loaded guns lying around.

The US does have ridiculously under-regulated guns, but those examples are wrong in trying to prove it.

The gun store that over 500 AK-47s to Mexican Cartels - and the lack of any need to even report the sale of such rifles - that's under-regulation.

I thought you were against propaganda? Or is it only propaganda that doesn't align with your own views that you are against?

Besides, if that was a true figure wouldn't securing the border to prevent arms from being smuggled into Mexico be a much better option than restricting the rights of Americans?

 

[Darwin333]

Bathtubs != Weapons.

Bathtubs != Guns

Bathtubs were not designed to kill

Bathtubs were meant for another purpose other than death

Next?

We are talking about saving lives right? Or is that simply not important, if it isn't the conversation is over if it is then the comparison stands.

There are so few accidental gun deaths in this country that when compared with something menial like a bathtub accidental gun deaths are damn near statistically irrelevant.

I have also never heard of a bathtub stopping a woman from being raped, or preventing a criminal from killing someone, or protecting a family inside of their home so you do have somewhat of a point, just not the one you were trying to make. And the purpose of my gun is not to cause death it is to preserve life.

Bottom line is real easy to see:

200 million legally owned firearms, roughly 50% of households have a gun in them.

Politicians will NOT pass a bill that has the police coming into your homes to take your guns away.

Relatively few local police departments would actually carry out such a thing even if a law was passed.

Even if they did, most guns are not registered. The police don't know where they are at which makes illegal searches of peoples property necessary to obtain what you wish.

Criminals will still have guns.

Criminals will still be able to get guns, at best you will see an increased street price but with the sheer numbers it won't be a huge increase.

Gun control flat out doesn't work in the US (United States != UK)

In 2000, 20% of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just six percent of the
population – New York, Chicago, Detroit, and Washington, D.C. – most of which
have/had a virtual prohibition on private handguns.
3

The law abiding citizens of this country would simply not allow the sort of violations of their rights that would be required to get rid of guns.

Get it? It ain't gonna happen, period. You can huff and puff and wish all you damn well want but the simple truth of the matter is the United States will not have anything close to UK style gun control. It is a fun topic to debate because the people on your side are almost always completely ignorant of the facts and tend to just pull shit of their asses but at the end of the day your side will not get what they want. Period.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I'm sure your little vote changes the world, you are just and idiot who thinks he's more important than he is, of course that's just me flapping my gums, it's an opinion that means as much as everything you post on here.

I'm not worried about the world, just my rights in the US and Texas which your gum flapping will have no effect.

 

[HAL9000]

We are talking about saving lives right? Or is that simply not important, if it isn't the conversation is over if it is then the comparison stands.

There are so few accidental gun deaths in this country that when compared with something menial like a bathtub accidental gun deaths are damn near statistically irrelevant.

I have also never heard of a bathtub stopping a woman from being raped, or preventing a criminal from killing someone, or protecting a family inside of their home so you do have somewhat of a point, just not the one you were trying to make. And the purpose of my gun is not to cause death it is to preserve life.

Bottom line is real easy to see:

200 million legally owned firearms, roughly 50% of households have a gun in them.

Politicians will NOT pass a bill that has the police coming into your homes to take your guns away.

Relatively few local police departments would actually carry out such a thing even if a law was passed.

Even if they did, most guns are not registered. The police don't know where they are at which makes illegal searches of peoples property necessary to obtain what you wish.

Criminals will still have guns.

Criminals will still be able to get guns, at best you will see an increased street price but with the sheer numbers it won't be a huge increase.

Gun control flat out doesn't work in the US (United States != UK)

In 2000, 20% of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just six percent of the
population – New York, Chicago, Detroit, and Washington, D.C. – most of which
have/had a virtual prohibition on private handguns.
3

The law abiding citizens of this country would simply not allow the sort of violations of their rights that would be required to get rid of guns.

Get it? It ain't gonna happen, period. You can huff and puff and wish all you damn well want but the simple truth of the matter is the United States will not have anything close to UK style gun control. It is a fun topic to debate because the people on your side are almost always completely ignorant of the facts and tend to just pull shit of their asses but at the end of the day your side will not get what they want. Period.

Period?

I'm not ignorant, I know it would be very difficult, very long very hard, but worth it. All of the things you say are very unfortunate, and it wouldn't work unless people realise that guns are just things that are used to kill and nothing else, not toys, when people change their mindset then maybe it will be more doable. America seems to see owning a gun as fun, it's retarded. It needs to change, just because it wont any time soon doesn't make it right.

Just because things are like that at the moment doesn't make it right.

The rest of the western world thinks that americas gun "control" is a problem. You guys need to sort it, and no it wont happen over night with a blanket ban guns law. You need to start by making some guns illegal. Peoples mindsets need to change.

However you dress it up America has one of the highest rates of gun death and crime in the world. Period.

 

[HAL9000]

I'm not worried about the world, just my rights in the US and Texas which your gum flapping will have no effect.

Stop saying "gum flapping" it sounds retarded and you mean "talking" I assume. I don't give a shit about what you think, and I don't care if you don't care what I think, it means nothing to me so shove it up your arse and stop telling me about it, I don't give a shit.

 

[BoberFett]

DERP

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[HAL9000]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

What?

 

[Darwin333]

Period?

I'm not ignorant, I know it would be very difficult, very long very hard, but worth it. All of the things you say are very unfortunate, and it wouldn't work unless people realise that guns are just things that are used to kill and nothing else, not toys, when people change their mindset then maybe it will be more doable. America seems to see owning a gun as fun, it's retarded. It needs to change, just because it wont any time soon doesn't make it right.

Just because things are like that at the moment doesn't make it right.

The rest of the western world thinks that americas gun "control" is a problem. You guys need to sort it, and no it wont happen over night with a blanket ban guns law. You need to start by making some guns illegal. Peoples mindsets need to change.

Peoples mindsets ARE changing. Fortunately they are changing in the opposite direction that you wish them too.

In the last decade we have seen a large number of states pass laws making it possible/easier for law abiding citizens to own and use guns for self defense. Amazing how the streets have yet to run red with blood from wild west type shootouts over road rage isn't it?

The facts are not on your side and you obviously don't care to know or recognize them either.

And for the record, Americans see owning guns as a right.

However you dress it up America has one of the highest rates of gun death and crime in the world. Period.

Disarming the law abiding citizens will likely increase that number as shown by cities that have done so. As far as accidental deaths I think we can both agree that at the very least guns are used to defend at least that many people making it at the very least a wash.

Gun control in the United States has been proven to be ineffective. Wanna know what has been proven to actually be effective at reducing violent crime? Locking up violent criminals, especially those convicted of gun crimes, and locking them up for longer periods of time. This would require us to stop putting as many people in jail for nonviolent crime (especially "victimless crimes) but I see that as a good thing too.

Out of curiosity, do you generally dislike facts or is it just on this specific topic?

 

[irishScott]

Guys neckarb is trolling the shit out of this thread now. Just ignore him. See my sig for a post he made earlier. He wants to control guns because he's an Orwellian little Brit.

I challenged him with the fact that he'd support laws that would deny his neighbors their right to self defense, indirectly killing them in the process; and that he didn't want to trust his neighbors, he wanted them on a leash. The quote in my sig was his response.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Stop saying "gum flapping" it sounds retarded and you mean "talking" I assume. I don't give a shit about what you think, and I don't care if you don't care what I think, it means nothing to me so shove it up your arse and stop telling me about it, I don't give a shit.

Get it through you head, the Americans who are posting in this thread don't give a fuck about your limey brit ass gum flapping.

 

[nick1985]

and stop calling him neckarb. Its neckbeard.

 

[nonlnear]

Get it through you head, the Americans who are posting in this thread don't give a fuck about your limey brit ass gum flapping.

You forgot the "Period."

 

[Londo_Jowo]

and stop calling him neckarb. Its neckbeard.

I thought is was Necktard..

 

[Londo_Jowo]

You forgot the "Period."

Oh yeah....period!

 

[HAL9000]

Get it through you head, the Americans who are posting in this thread don't give a fuck about your limey brit ass gum flapping.

Am I supposed to give a fuck what your fat yank arse thinks?

Edit: Ignore list meet "Londo_Jowo" great name.

 

[Nebor]

Peoples mindsets ARE changing. Fortunately they are changing in the opposite direction that you wish them too.

Agreed. Ever since 1994, America has been moving solidly away from gun control. We saw it enacted on a national scale, we didn't like it, it didn't work, it went away and we don't want any more.

 

[nonlnear]

Am I supposed to give a fuck what your fat yank arse thinks?

You seem to care very deeply what Americans think:

You need to start by making some guns illegal. Peoples mindsets need to change.

 

[HAL9000]

Peoples mindsets ARE changing. Fortunately they are changing in the opposite direction that you wish them too.

In the last decade we have seen a large number of states pass laws making it possible/easier for law abiding citizens to own and use guns for self defense. Amazing how the streets have yet to run red with blood from wild west type shootouts over road rage isn't it?

The facts are not on your side and you obviously don't care to know or recognize them either.

And for the record, Americans see owning guns as a right.


Disarming the law abiding citizens will likely increase that number as shown by cities that have done so. As far as accidental deaths I think we can both agree that at the very least guns are used to defend at least that many people making it at the very least a wash.

Gun control in the United States has been proven to be ineffective. Wanna know what has been proven to actually be effective at reducing violent crime? Locking up violent criminals, especially those convicted of gun crimes, and locking them up for longer periods of time. This would require us to stop putting as many people in jail for nonviolent crime (especially "victimless crimes) but I see that as a good thing too.

Out of curiosity, do you generally dislike facts or is it just on this specific topic?

No I just dislike the idea of living in a town where every other person has a gun in their pocket! The very notion is insane, and if disarming law abiding citizens will in the short term cost lives, but in the long term remove guns from the streets, then it's a necessary evil.

It baffles me than americans see gun ownership as a right, and I'm so glad that people in my country see that life without the need to be armed is better.

 

[HAL9000]

You seem to care very deeply what Americans think:

Ah no you misunderstand, I care about how societies think, particularly super powers like the US, I don't give a shit what 12 year old americans on forums think about me.

 

[nick1985]

It baffles me than americans see gun ownership as a right

How is it baffling? The words are clear as day in the Constitution.

 

[HAL9000]

How is it baffling? The words are clear as day in the Constitution.

Just because it's a legal right doesn't then translate that into an innate moral absolute. It's baffling that because of stubbornness that "right" wasn't removed long ago, it's a "right" enshrined by a constitution written so long ago that some parts are no longer relevant.

This: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2134581

Is enough for me to think that maybe america as a nation would be better off without guns.