White house ready to drop public option.

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
When the Democrats themselves could pass any version of the current proposals without a single Republican vote, why do they continue to blame the Republicans for their own failure to unite and accomplish that task?

Personal responsibility FTW.

Because political parties are not monolithic? This whole 'the democrats can pass anything because there's 60 of them' thing is stupidity. If this were a parliamentary system, that would be correct. Since it's a single member system with people disclosing their general set of principles through only 2 parties that attempt to encompass the entire political spectrum, trying to make this sort of argument is asinine. I'm sure you know this.

That's a bullshit excuse for one party not being able to unite as well as the other party is able to do on a regular basis. The Dems are in a better position to run the entire show with little to no interference than either party has been in a long time, yet they can't get their shit together long enough to pass a bill that is likely the most critical element of their supposedly unified platform...?!

Getdafuckouttahere. :roll:

The hick democrats are not exactly in step with the rest... so they really don't have 60 progressives. Much easier for the republicans to stay together, as they are ALL hicks.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

The hick democrats are not exactly in step with the rest... so they really don't have 60 progressives. Much easier for the republicans to stay together, as they are ALL hicks.

Are you always such a prejudice moron?

Seeing you use slurs to attack the people in your own party that you dont agree with makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. :thumbsup:

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Heh, and I thought that the 'public option' alongside private insurance WAS the compromise compared to what many want - a single payer system.
Without the public option, this is more just a tweaking of the current system than any real reform. So, ten years from now we'll probably be bitching about this like its 1993....again.

A "public option" aka welfare is *not* reform. Reform would be regulating health care cost, and bringing drug price negotiation to the table, both of which the Dems are not willing to do. The logic of adding another 15million people to an already bloated and expensive system is absolutely idiotic.

"bloated" means like 3% overhead right? How do you propose regulating health care costs without a public option to keep them honest. What kind of shipping charges would fedex/ups charge if it were not for the totally self-sufficient postal office competing? Who will negotiate drug costs, insurance companies are in bed with drug companies, so a large enough size government entity would be required. Without a public option, no reform will do anything except pad insurance profits even more.

There are admin costs not included in that 3% overhead. This is common knowledge in the industry.

I would like for you to explain (I have an open mind here) how adding 15 million more people, on the taxpayer's dole, while keeping providers and insurance companies in the private sector, will bring down costs and make it more competitive. If you cant provide that, a link to someone who has would be great.

It works in every other country. You bring taxes to remotely reasonable level and cut defense spending.

Hey thanks for the intelligent post. Very informative.

 

[ayabe]

Let them filibuster, let it go own for months. Let's see who blinks first.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
When the Democrats themselves could pass any version of the current proposals without a single Republican vote, why do they continue to blame the Republicans for their own failure to unite and accomplish that task?

Personal responsibility FTW.

Because political parties are not monolithic? This whole 'the democrats can pass anything because there's 60 of them' thing is stupidity. If this were a parliamentary system, that would be correct. Since it's a single member system with people disclosing their general set of principles through only 2 parties that attempt to encompass the entire political spectrum, trying to make this sort of argument is asinine. I'm sure you know this.

That's a bullshit excuse for one party not being able to unite as well as the other party is able to do on a regular basis. The Dems are in a better position to run the entire show with little to no interference than either party has been in a long time, yet they can't get their shit together long enough to pass a bill that is likely the most critical element of their supposedly unified platform...?!

Getdafuckouttahere. :roll:

What do you mean they 'can't get their shit together long enough to pass a bill'? They will almost certainly pass a bill. Now if you're talking about a bill with a public option, as I would presume in a thread about it, let's talk about their 'unified platform'. Why would the Democrats be so uniquely unable to get their shit together to include a provision in a bill that isn't even part of their party platform? Do you even know what's in their 'unified platform'?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Let them filibuster, let it go own for months. Let's see who blinks first.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: ayabe
Let them filibuster, let it go own for months. Let's see who blinks first.

Don't drop the public option, if they don't have 60 votes to overcome the filibuster, then let the R's filibuster it.

Bring the Senate to a halt. The thing is nowadays the mere threat of a filibuster seems to be enough to get these jerks pissing their pants.

Let's have a real filibuster them, old school style, let's see how long it can last.

 

[xj0hnx]

It's funny watching democrats flail when they fail, it's like a chicken with it's head cut off.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Genx87
btw I love how it is framed at bowing to Republican pressure when it was a top democrat (Kent Conrad) who said the public option was doa and never had a chance from the beginning.

Not Republican pressure, Republican fear mongering. Big difference. The pressure is coming from an inflamed public reacting irrationally to a propaganda campaign about "pulling the plug on Grandma" and similar lies and disinformation. It's the same tactic by the same slime machine that panicked Americans into invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

/thread and hopefully the modern day GOP.

Hopefully the sane ones, an there are a lot of them they just aren't as loud as the wingnuts, can take their party back over and throw the lunatic fringe out to the curb where they belong. Let them start their own party.

If the lunatic fringe has the power to smear a campaign to its death then they have a little more power than you hope they have.

it is hilarious to watch the denial of the liberals to believe this was all derailed by a a fringe element of the Republican party.

Let's be clear, the responsible democrats have a big part in "derailing" this. They have the numbers, just not the votes. When was the last time you heard the same thing about a GOP controlled congress and a GOP POTUS? Had this come up 8 years ago in the same form it is now and Bush were the one pushing for it, it'd been rammed down our throats months ago with little or no discussion. Thanks for reminding about the big difference between the two. Thank God one party is responsible enough to not follow their fearless leader off the cliff on every issue.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: ayabe
Let them filibuster, let it go own for months. Let's see who blinks first.

Don't drop the public option, if they don't have 60 votes to overcome the filibuster, then let the R's filibuster it.

Bring the Senate to a halt. The thing is nowadays the mere threat of a filibuster seems to be enough to get these jerks pissing their pants.

Let's have a real filibuster them, old school style, let's see how long it can last.

Nobody is filibustering anything. Do you know what the term means?

They are just counting votes, and coming up short due to Democrats not being in lock-step. Obama cant risk taking a vote on a bill that will fail. His second term may be riding on this.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: ayabe
Let them filibuster, let it go own for months. Let's see who blinks first.

Don't drop the public option, if they don't have 60 votes to overcome the filibuster, then let the R's filibuster it.

Bring the Senate to a halt. The thing is nowadays the mere threat of a filibuster seems to be enough to get these jerks pissing their pants.

Let's have a real filibuster them, old school style, let's see how long it can last.

Nobody is filibustering anything. Do you know what the term means?

They are just counting votes, and coming up short due to Democrats not being in lock-step. Obama cant risk taking a vote on a bill that will fail. His second term may be riding on this.

They are coming up short for 60 votes, not 50. So yes, the filibuster is very relevant.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
The hick democrats are not exactly in step with the rest... so they really don't have 60 progressives. Much easier for the republicans to stay together, as they are ALL hicks.

Please define "hick."

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Genx87
btw I love how it is framed at bowing to Republican pressure when it was a top democrat (Kent Conrad) who said the public option was doa and never had a chance from the beginning.

Not Republican pressure, Republican fear mongering. Big difference. The pressure is coming from an inflamed public reacting irrationally to a propaganda campaign about "pulling the plug on Grandma" and similar lies and disinformation. It's the same tactic by the same slime machine that panicked Americans into invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

/thread and hopefully the modern day GOP.

Hopefully the sane ones, an there are a lot of them they just aren't as loud as the wingnuts, can take their party back over and throw the lunatic fringe out to the curb where they belong. Let them start their own party.

If the lunatic fringe has the power to smear a campaign to its death then they have a little more power than you hope they have.

it is hilarious to watch the denial of the liberals to believe this was all derailed by a a fringe element of the Republican party.

Let's be clear, the responsible democrats have a big part in "derailing" this. They have the numbers, just not the votes. When was the last time you heard the same thing about a GOP controlled congress and a GOP POTUS? Had this come up 8 years ago in the same form it is now and Bush were the one pushing for it, it'd been rammed down our throats months ago with little or no discussion. Thanks for reminding about the big difference between the two. Thank God one party is responsible enough to not follow their fearless leader off the cliff on every issue.

Right, that is why SS reform went through without a hitch right?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Genx87
btw I love how it is framed at bowing to Republican pressure when it was a top democrat (Kent Conrad) who said the public option was doa and never had a chance from the beginning.

Not Republican pressure, Republican fear mongering. Big difference. The pressure is coming from an inflamed public reacting irrationally to a propaganda campaign about "pulling the plug on Grandma" and similar lies and disinformation. It's the same tactic by the same slime machine that panicked Americans into invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

/thread and hopefully the modern day GOP.

Hopefully the sane ones, an there are a lot of them they just aren't as loud as the wingnuts, can take their party back over and throw the lunatic fringe out to the curb where they belong. Let them start their own party.

If the lunatic fringe has the power to smear a campaign to its death then they have a little more power than you hope they have.

it is hilarious to watch the denial of the liberals to believe this was all derailed by a a fringe element of the Republican party.

Let's be clear, the responsible democrats have a big part in "derailing" this. They have the numbers, just not the votes. When was the last time you heard the same thing about a GOP controlled congress and a GOP POTUS? Had this come up 8 years ago in the same form it is now and Bush were the one pushing for it, it'd been rammed down our throats months ago with little or no discussion. Thanks for reminding about the big difference between the two. Thank God one party is responsible enough to not follow their fearless leader off the cliff on every issue.

The silver-lining approach? Cute.

So you admit that the current proposals equate to a "cliff"? Good to know. I couldn't agree more! :thumbsup:

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: ayabe
Let them filibuster, let it go own for months. Let's see who blinks first.

Don't drop the public option, if they don't have 60 votes to overcome the filibuster, then let the R's filibuster it.

Bring the Senate to a halt. The thing is nowadays the mere threat of a filibuster seems to be enough to get these jerks pissing their pants.

Let's have a real filibuster them, old school style, let's see how long it can last.

Nobody is filibustering anything. Do you know what the term means?

They are just counting votes, and coming up short due to Democrats not being in lock-step. Obama cant risk taking a vote on a bill that will fail. His second term may be riding on this.

Errr what? The D's have the votes to pass it up or down. This whole kerfuffle is revolving around drumming up 60 votes to shut down an R filibuster.

I think it's you who is missing what this is all about.

 

[ZeGermans]

those that use supply-side jesus to get elected

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: OCguy
http://thehill.com/leading-the...option-2009-08-16.html

President Barack Obama himself on Saturday suggested he won?t insist on a public option.
'The public option, whether we have it or we don?t have it, is not the entirety of healthcare reform," ...



It must really anger some of the more liberal posters here that not even the most liberal president we have had in a long time sees the heathcare issue as they do.

hahaha give one single instance of Obama taking a very liberal stance on ANYTHING.

If you are any indication of the typical "liberal stance," THANK GOD he hasn't.

So you got nothing. I posit to you that calling Obama a socialist or communist when the majority of his policies so have been pretty centrist or giant business payoffs, is basically a method of letting racists irrationally hate Obama and be politically correct about it instead of yelling N1GGER all the time. This is somewhat similar to the "STATES RIGHTS" rallying cry against civil rights.

Wow... how you managed to bring race into a discussion on the degree to which Obama promotes liberal agendas is beyond me. I mean, the race card? WTF?!

Weak, very weak.

Are you wearing a helmet right now?

Psstt - Zegermans obviously hasn't a clue so I doubt he'll understand your reply. I usually just chalk these little episodes by fringe libs to mean they have nothing. When libs have nothing, they resort to the race card, the "people will starve/die" card, and most recently the "Bush is evil"/ lifted macro type crap. It's just the way these sorts of people work. Heck, look at craig321 - he's so twisted up in knots he seems to think that the GOP is responsible for the failure of BHO and his majority minions to pass this rotten bill! And others seem to think that the GOP is what stirred up the crowds and such to oppose this crap. Sorry, but they can't have it both ways - either the GOP is "dead" or it's not. It's either "stupid" or it's not. IF the GOP would have tried to mount a campaign and organize it's people - believe me - they would have F'd it all up and the bill would have been passed by now. But it wasn't the GOP - it was great Americans from all over the nation who have decided to stand up against BHO and his lib cronies and reject further socialism.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: ayabe
Let them filibuster, let it go own for months. Let's see who blinks first.

Don't drop the public option, if they don't have 60 votes to overcome the filibuster, then let the R's filibuster it.

Bring the Senate to a halt. The thing is nowadays the mere threat of a filibuster seems to be enough to get these jerks pissing their pants.

Let's have a real filibuster them, old school style, let's see how long it can last.

Nobody is filibustering anything. Do you know what the term means?

They are just counting votes, and coming up short due to Democrats not being in lock-step. Obama cant risk taking a vote on a bill that will fail. His second term may be riding on this.

Errr what? The D's have the votes to pass it up or down. This whole kerfuffle is revolving around drumming up 60 votes to shut down an R filibuster.

I think it's you who is missing what this is all about.

Well, it appears that the "public option" may not even have the 50 votes necessary to get to the filibuster situation, which is why they're already talking about dropping it.

I bet there are more Dems against the current proposals than Obama ever imagined possible, which brings us back to the whole "lack of unity" thing.

Didn't Obama run on, and win with, promises of a UHC-based platform? Didn't the entire Democratic Party appear to be supportive of his plans at the time?

How's that working out for him now? What's changed?

 

[Zedtom]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
The hick democrats are not exactly in step with the rest... so they really don't have 60 progressives. Much easier for the republicans to stay together, as they are ALL hicks.

Please define "hick."

They're not hicks, they are "maver-hicks". :laugh:

anyway...maybe now they work on making medical records more accessible though a massive overhaul of record keeping procedures. The luddites who are afraid of security issues should ask bankers what they think about the worldwide ATM networks.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: ayabe
Let them filibuster, let it go own for months. Let's see who blinks first.

Don't drop the public option, if they don't have 60 votes to overcome the filibuster, then let the R's filibuster it.

Bring the Senate to a halt. The thing is nowadays the mere threat of a filibuster seems to be enough to get these jerks pissing their pants.

Let's have a real filibuster them, old school style, let's see how long it can last.

Nobody is filibustering anything. Do you know what the term means?

They are just counting votes, and coming up short due to Democrats not being in lock-step. Obama cant risk taking a vote on a bill that will fail. His second term may be riding on this.

Errr what? The D's have the votes to pass it up or down. This whole kerfuffle is revolving around drumming up 60 votes to shut down an R filibuster.

I think it's you who is missing what this is all about.

At this point I dont think they have enough to even get it passed. Forget a filibuster problem. Blue Dog democrats wont support a public option without it being funded.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Zedtom

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
The hick democrats are not exactly in step with the rest... so they really don't have 60 progressives. Much easier for the republicans to stay together, as they are ALL hicks.

Please define "hick."

They're not hicks, they are "maver-hicks". :laugh:

anyway...maybe now they work on making medical records more accessible though a massive overhaul of record keeping procedures. The luddites who are afraid of security issues should ask bankers what they think about the worldwide ATM networks.

Just so I'm clear with what you're saying, "accessible" to whom exactly?

 

[lupi]

So now that we've got the "hicks" and "n1gger" out of the way, the discussion should get interesting now.



And just think how much more enjoyable this discussion would be if the same party didn't control the executive branch and both sections of the legislator.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Genx87
btw I love how it is framed at bowing to Republican pressure when it was a top democrat (Kent Conrad) who said the public option was doa and never had a chance from the beginning.

Not Republican pressure, Republican fear mongering. Big difference. The pressure is coming from an inflamed public reacting irrationally to a propaganda campaign about "pulling the plug on Grandma" and similar lies and disinformation. It's the same tactic by the same slime machine that panicked Americans into invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

/thread and hopefully the modern day GOP.

Hopefully the sane ones, an there are a lot of them they just aren't as loud as the wingnuts, can take their party back over and throw the lunatic fringe out to the curb where they belong. Let them start their own party.

If the lunatic fringe has the power to smear a campaign to its death then they have a little more power than you hope they have.

it is hilarious to watch the denial of the liberals to believe this was all derailed by a a fringe element of the Republican party.

Let's be clear, the responsible democrats have a big part in "derailing" this. They have the numbers, just not the votes. When was the last time you heard the same thing about a GOP controlled congress and a GOP POTUS? Had this come up 8 years ago in the same form it is now and Bush were the one pushing for it, it'd been rammed down our throats months ago with little or no discussion. Thanks for reminding about the big difference between the two. Thank God one party is responsible enough to not follow their fearless leader off the cliff on every issue.

Right, that is why SS reform went through without a hitch right?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I'll give you that one but only not full credit because of totally different circumstances. Much of that issue had to do with not wanting to alienate the AARP generation of voters

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

It is amusing to see the left throwing around, "But but but...the Republican filibuster!", when in actuality, the Republicans can't actually filibuster anything. The Democrats hold the supermajority (60 seats) and can break any attempted Republican filibuster on a bill.

"The term first came into use in the United States Senate, where Senate rules permit a senator, or a series of senators, to speak for as long as they wish and on any topic they choose, unless a 3/5ths of the Senate (60 Senators elected and sworn), brings debate to a close by invoking cloture. (For changing of senate rules the pre-1975 rule of a super-majority of senators present, i.e. 67 senators at most, is still used)...

...As of July 7, 2009, Democrats officially hold a filibuster-proof supermajority, with the swearing in of Al Franken, Junior United States Senator from Minnesota."

Filibuster in the United States

Maybe yall should research a term before throwing it around so blindly.

The Republicans can't (successfully) filibuster anything. They don't have the votes. Any attempt to filibuster can be easily overturned by the Democrat supermajority.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Genx87

At this point I dont think they have enough to even get it passed. Forget a filibuster problem. Blue Dog democrats wont support a public option without it being funded.

Unlikely. A public option will almost certainly make it out in the House bill and not the Senate one, and it will be decided on in conference.