White house ready to drop public option.

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I haven't laughed this hard over AT in a while. Seriously? I mean really? Are you libs really that whacked that you'll continue to try to blame the GOP and excuse your lib leaders? Really eskimospy? Do you really not understand that the house didn't vote on it - BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES they wanted?

Seriously libs - you need to snap out of you HnC (hope and change) fog and start seeing reality. Sheesh.

They are desperate to find a bogeyman, but the reality is that the Republicans can't stop anything, so in the end, the Democrats' witch-hunt just makes them look extremely foolish.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Fern
Lemme see if I understand this.

Bills originate in the House, but they can't pass anything.

Filibusters apply to the Senate, not the House.

The Repubs don't actually have enough seats in the Senate to fillibusters.

But the Dems haven't passed anything in either the House or the Senate because of the (fictional) Repubs fillibuster?

Bwuhahahaha

Fern

What are you babbling about?
-snip-

As is obvious, I'm laughing at posters blaming this (dropping of public option) on some mythical Repuib fillibuster.

Fact is, the Dem policy ain't so popular with the voters as it is with you diehards and the Dem politicians wanna keep their jobs.

The Dem party doesn't give a damn about what self identified Repuib voters think, but the independant type voters don't like it either and that worries them.

Fern

Well your theory should be easy to prove then. Since a public option has polled well in the past and not so well now, please show me a list of senators that previously supported it, but do not now.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
/facepalm

Let me show you what the Democratic Party platform is. This is the most recent platform put forth by the party that all candidates who run under the party and receive its support are supposed to endorse. When people like TheSkinsFan talk about a 'unified platform', this is it.

There are other issues that among Democrats that do garner the support of large numbers of Democrats, but not enough to be included in the platform. Things like the public option. These will be goals that the party at large will attempt to accomplish, but will not actually be part of the unified platform for the party. This is why TheSkinsFan's attempt to attack the Democrats for not doing something that is 'part of their unified platform' was simply incorrect.

Now do you understand the difference?

Originally posted by: eskimospy
You need to go learn the difference between a press release and the Democratic Party platform.

No, it is actually you who should "go learn the difference," or lack thereof.

From the 2008 Democratic Party Platform document -- the latest version, page 10 -- titled Renewing America's Promise, please pay close attention to the following:

Covering All Americans and Providing Real Choices of Affordable Health Insurance Options.
Families and individuals should have the option of keeping the coverage they have or choosing from a wide array of health insurance plans, including many private health insurance options and a public plan. Coverage should be made affordable for all Americans with subsidies provided through tax credits and other means.

That document is what is currently posted on the Democratic Party's official website under a link titled "The Democratic Platform."

You, my friend, were wrong.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: eskimospy
You need to go learn the difference between a press release and the Democratic Party platform.

No, it is actually you who should "go learn the difference," or lack thereof.

From the 2008 Democratic Party Platform document -- the latest version -- titled Renewing America's Promise, please pay close attention to the following:

Covering All Americans and Providing Real Choices of Affordable Health Insurance Options.
Families and individuals should have the option of keeping the coverage they have or choosing from a wide array of health insurance plans, including many private health insurance options and a public plan. Coverage should be made affordable for all Americans with subsidies provided through tax credits and other means.

That is what is currently posted on the Democratic Party's website. You, my friend, were wrong again.

Actually you're correct, I was wrong. I don't know about being wrong 'again', but I didn't see that.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Zedtom

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: Zedtom

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Just so I'm clear with what you're saying, "accessible" to whom exactly?

Medicare records, as a for instance, are well protected from unauthorized parties.

There are many who could utilize the databases without having patient privacy compromised. The alternative is to do nothing.

such as?

The goal would be to improve upon how we access that information now. By "we" I refer to authorized medical personnel who need medical records to transact business or do medical diagnoses.

cool. just had to be sure.

/agreed.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
-snip-
I've never heard of a public insurance company being the Democratic Party's flagship issue.

What is their "flagship issue"?

Ending the Iraq/Afghan war? I'm reminded of when they took control of Congress, yet Pelosi and Reid did nothing on that issue either. What was the excuse? GWB might veto it (even though you can't veto a Congressional refusal to funding).

Ending FISA etc? How's that working out?

Closing GITMO? Zip here too. Nothing but backpedaling.

The pattern is clear, the Dem leaders talk "game" to the hardcore at election time then do nothing of the sort becuse their policies aren't as popular as some claim. And this becomes clear as soon as we move past those bogus "all candy and no cost' type polls people like to quote in support of their policies.

Fern

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Fern
Lemme see if I understand this.

Bills originate in the House, but they can't pass anything.

Filibusters apply to the Senate, not the House.

The Repubs don't actually have enough seats in the Senate to fillibusters.

But the Dems haven't passed anything in either the House or the Senate because of the (fictional) Repubs fillibuster?

Bwuhahahaha

Fern

It's funny to watch Democrats snivel like this.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eskimospy
-snip-
I've never heard of a public insurance company being the Democratic Party's flagship issue.

What is their "flagship issue"?

Ending the Iraq/Afghan war? I'm reminded of when they took control of Congress, yet Pelosi and Reid did nothing on that issue either. What was the excuse? GWB might veto it (even though you can't veto a Congressional refusal to funding).

Ending FISA etc? How's that working out?

Closing GITMO? Zip here too. Nothing but backpedaling.

The pattern is clear, the Dem leaders talk "game" to the hardcore at election time then do nothing of the sort becuse their policies aren't as popular as some claim. And this becomes clear as soon as we move past those bogus "all candy and no cost' type polls people like to quote in support of their policies.

Fern

Don't sign your posts dumbass we know who it was

 

[spidey07]

I think one thing is for certain. Obama pushes super liberal policy and is then shocked to find out people don't want his ideas. At least he's pulling back some thanks to the people starting to wake up to what he's doing and sending congress a resounding "DO NOT WANT!".

We've seen this behavior from him a lot so far, that he's actually shocked that most of the country doesn't want what he's doing on every issue.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Heh, and I thought that the 'public option' alongside private insurance WAS the compromise compared to what many want - a single payer system.
Without the public option, this is more just a tweaking of the current system than any real reform. So, ten years from now we'll probably be bitching about this like its 1993....again.

A "public option" aka welfare is *not* reform. Reform would be regulating health care cost, and bringing drug price negotiation to the table, both of which the Dems are not willing to do. The logic of adding another 15million people to an already bloated and expensive system is absolutely idiotic.

It *is* reform, just not reform you agree with. It would be a significant change/shakeup of the current system - so much so that it could change the entire dynamic. I call that reform. It could be for the better or worse depending on how it is set up. You can't even call it welfare necessarily as it could be just government-run through premiums for benefits instead of direct taxation. Welfare is what happens now when people clog up the ER and skip out on the bill...

I will agree that the other things you mention are reform, too....and very much needed. However, I think the point of any successful healthcare reform would be to scrap the current system. Adding more people to the current one without major structural change would be stupid....

Then we'll agree to disagree. You say adding another 15 million people is reform, but then say "Adding more people to the current one without major structural change would be stupid"....no where in the any of the most popular of bills has any structural changes AFAIK. I *do* agree welfare (in part) is when people clog up the ER and skip out on the bill...but its also getting a service from the government that isnt directly paid for, but through public funds.

Fair enough. The mere existance of a program is a game-changer. However if we do not have the other reforms, such as drug price negotiation, then a public option would be a disaster financially. You can't have one without the other is what I was getting at.

Got it. We agree then. I guess its a matter of disagreeing which should come first.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Actually you're correct, I was wrong. I don't know about being wrong 'again', but I didn't see that.

/respect

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eskimospy
-snip-
I've never heard of a public insurance company being the Democratic Party's flagship issue.

What is their "flagship issue"?

Ending the Iraq/Afghan war? I'm reminded of when they took control of Congress, yet Pelosi and Reid did nothing on that issue either. What was the excuse? GWB might veto it (even though you can't veto a Congressional refusal to funding).

Ending FISA etc? How's that working out?

Closing GITMO? Zip here too. Nothing but backpedaling.

The pattern is clear, the Dem leaders talk "game" to the hardcore at election time then do nothing of the sort becuse their policies aren't as popular as some claim. And this becomes clear as soon as we move past those bogus "all candy and no cost' type polls people like to quote in support of their policies.

Fern

Don't sign your posts dumbass we know who it was

Fern just knows that the odds are good that the leftists reading his posts have a short attention span, and will forget it was him by the time they reach the end of any post more wordy than a page from a Dr. Seuss book.

BoberFett

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Fern
Lemme see if I understand this.

Bills originate in the House, but they can't pass anything.

Filibusters apply to the Senate, not the House.

The Repubs don't actually have enough seats in the Senate to fillibusters.

But the Dems haven't passed anything in either the House or the Senate because of the (fictional) Repubs fillibuster?

Bwuhahahaha

Fern

It's funny to watch Democrats snivel like this.

Yes, hilarity has definitely ensued in this thread. If backpedaling and diversion were Olympic sports, we'd have a bunch of gold medal contenders in this thread.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eskimospy
-snip-
I've never heard of a public insurance company being the Democratic Party's flagship issue.

What is their "flagship issue"?

Ending the Iraq/Afghan war? I'm reminded of when they took control of Congress, yet Pelosi and Reid did nothing on that issue either. What was the excuse? GWB might veto it (even though you can't veto a Congressional refusal to funding).

Ending FISA etc? How's that working out?

Closing GITMO? Zip here too. Nothing but backpedaling.

The pattern is clear, the Dem leaders talk "game" to the hardcore at election time then do nothing of the sort becuse their policies aren't as popular as some claim. And this becomes clear as soon as we move past those bogus "all candy and no cost' type polls people like to quote in support of their policies.

Fern

Don't sign your posts dumbass we know who it was

Fern just knows that the odds are good that the leftists reading his posts have a short attention span, and will forget it was him by the time they reach the end of any post more wordy than a page from a Dr. Seuss book.

BoberFett

Dr. Seuss features talking cats and are often the subject of book burnings of those on the right.

Jonks

 

[ayabe]

You know if you all could possibly have allowed this debate to be carried forth in an honest way, you know absolutely that these ideas are supported by the majority of our citizens.

But you couldn't, once again your propaganda and lies have drowned out all meaningful debate. Congrats. You've once again been able to acutely exploit the fears of the working man.

Let's kick this down the road again, let's revisit this issue in 10 years and see how badly we're getting fucked.

Yeah pulling the plug on Grandma isn't so popular with the rank and file, imagine that.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Might wanna tell the Democratic party then.

President Obama and our Democratic leaders in Congress have been working to pass health care reform legislation before the end of the year. Today the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) took an important step towards that goal when it released its latest version of health care reform legislation. The bill follows President Obama?s principles for reform by lowering costs, protecting patient choice and expanding access to quality, affordable care, and includes a strong public option and a shared employee responsibility provision

Bolded for reference.

You need to go learn the difference between a press release and the Democratic Party platform.

Its from democrats.org on their main page nitwit.

/facepalm

Let me show you what the Democratic Party platform is. This is the most recent platform put forth by the party that all candidates who run under the party and receive its support are supposed to endorse. When people like TheSkinsFan talk about a 'unified platform', this is it.

There are other issues that among Democrats that do garner the support of large numbers of Democrats, but not enough to be included in the platform. Things like the public option. These will be goals that the party at large will attempt to accomplish, but will not actually be part of the unified platform for the party. This is why TheSkinsFan's attempt to attack the Democrats for not doing something that is 'part of their unified platform' was simply incorrect.

Now do you understand the difference?

EDIT: cleared post. Wrongness acknowledged no need to rub it in. Posted before I saw it.

/respect and a :beer:

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Fern
Lemme see if I understand this.

Bills originate in the House, but they can't pass anything.

Filibusters apply to the Senate, not the House.

The Repubs don't actually have enough seats in the Senate to fillibusters.

But the Dems haven't passed anything in either the House or the Senate because of the (fictional) Repubs fillibuster?

Bwuhahahaha

Fern

What are you babbling about?
-snip-

As is obvious, I'm laughing at posters blaming this (dropping of public option) on some mythical Repuib fillibuster.

Fact is, the Dem policy ain't so popular with the voters as it is with you diehards and the Dem politicians wanna keep their jobs.

The Dem party doesn't give a damn about what self identified Repuib voters think, but the independant type voters don't like it either and that worries them.

Fern

Well your theory should be easy to prove then. Since a public option has polled well in the past and not so well now, please show me a list of senators that previously supported it, but do not now.

Since youre one of them (a lib, no harm meant) why dont you explain WHY there isnt support?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: ayabe
You know if you all could possibly have allowed this debate to be carried forth in an honest way, you know absolutely that these ideas are supported by the majority of our citizens.

But you couldn't, once again your propaganda and lies have drowned out all meaningful debate. Congrats. You've once again been able to acutely exploit the fears of the working man.

Let's kick this down the road again, let's revisit this issue in 10 years and see how badly we're getting fucked.

Yeah pulling the plug on Grandma isn't so popular with the rank and file, imagine that.

Who proposed pulling the plug on grandma?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: ayabe
You know if you all could possibly have allowed this debate to be carried forth in an honest way, you know absolutely that these ideas are supported by the majority of our citizens.

But you couldn't, once again your propaganda and lies have drowned out all meaningful debate. Congrats. You've once again been able to acutely exploit the fears of the working man.

Let's kick this down the road again, let's revisit this issue in 10 years and see how badly we're getting fucked.

Yeah pulling the plug on Grandma isn't so popular with the rank and file, imagine that.

Really? You really think Gov't health care would be supported by a majority if a TRUTHFUL and HONEST dialog took place? I don't. I think people would realize that most of the "problems" could be resolved individually instead of having the gov't take over a slice(which inevitably would become bigger). Seriously - there isn't a major problem with our system that couldn't be made better by addressing them individually.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Really? You really think Gov't health care would be supported by a majority if a TRUTHFUL and HONEST dialog took place? I don't. I think people would realize that most of the "problems" could be resolved individually instead of having the gov't take over a slice(which inevitably would become bigger). Seriously - there isn't a major problem with our system that couldn't be made better by addressing them individually.

Given that the republicans have managed to piss off two different countries with their constant lies about their health systems, I'd say without the propaganda it would be well considered, yes.

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Who proposed pulling the plug on grandma?

Sarah Palin. And the "liberal" media ran with it, gave it legitimacy, and of course didn't do their fucking job and point out how utterly stupid this was.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Really? You really think Gov't health care would be supported by a majority if a TRUTHFUL and HONEST dialog took place? I don't. I think people would realize that most of the "problems" could be resolved individually instead of having the gov't take over a slice(which inevitably would become bigger). Seriously - there isn't a major problem with our system that couldn't be made better by addressing them individually.

Given that the republicans have managed to piss off two different countries with their constant lies about their health systems, I'd say without the propaganda it would be well considered, yes.

:roll: Are you totally blind to BHO and his minion's propaganda? ... nevermind - I already know the answer to that.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: jonks
Dr. Seuss features talking cats and are often the subject of book burnings of those on the right.

Jonks

The Cat in the Hat is way overrated, but if they fuck with Horton they're gonna have to go through me first.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
:roll: Are you totally blind to BHO and his minion's propaganda? ... nevermind - I already know the answer to that.

I'm no fan of Obama as I've made clear. Also half my family lives in Austria and it's amazing how I have yet to hear a single UHC horror story.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
:roll: Are you totally blind to BHO and his minion's propaganda? ... nevermind - I already know the answer to that.

I'm no fan of Obama as I've made clear. Also half my family lives in Austria and it's amazing how I have yet to hear a single UHC horror story.

:golfclap; ?

 

[ZeGermans]

What I'm saying is you're a piece of shit and idiots like you will cause many people to die of preventable illnesses because the very idea of helping anyone but yourself is anathema