• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."
  • Community Question: What makes a good motherboard?

Which of the hacks were the Russians behind

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,097
18,864
136
That's like trying to say that if the election wasn't decided by electoral college votes, they would have campaigned differently and we can't really predict the outcome. Instead we know that Hillary won the popular vote in an election decided by the electoral college. It's all meaningless discussion at this point.

What Russia cares about is that we think the election was influenced by them, and we lose trust in our democracy. The MSM understood that back before when they believed Hillary would the election, and the message was keep confidence in our democracy. Now that Trump won, the message is Russia has infiltrated our democracy!!!
Can you show me some examples of this supposed shifting media message?

I bet it will be about voting machines not being compromised, which is no different than today.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,097
18,864
136
So many excuses...it's getting hard to keep track of them.
It really is getting tough to keep track of all the conservative excuses as to why this does matter, I agree. Originally Trump's excuse was that the conclusions of the intelligence agencies were wrong, claiming they were delaying briefing him, saying there was no evidence it was the Russians, etc. Now they've backpedaled and the new excuse is 'well fine it was the Russians but our intelligence agencies said it had no effect on the election!' (also a lie).

I for one have been pretty baffled at just how easily conservatives went along with claims that were pretty obvious lies, and claims that were highly likely to be disproven in short order. The groupthink is strong I guess.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,299
349
126
Can you show me some examples of this supposed shifting media message?

I bet it will be about voting machines not being compromised, which is no different than today.
Headlines as follows.

"Election is secure" "Election is not rigged"

Yes it is about voting machines. It's still all part of the narrative of our democracy being safe from Russia vs not safe from Russia, and confidence in our Democracy.

Here's a question, what content from the hacks lowered Hillary's votes in the key states she lost? Was it possible that the alleged collusion from the DNC to force Hillary over Bernie that caused her to lose key votes in Wisconsin and Michigan?

Bernie actually won Wisconsin and Michigan. That could have damaged her chances severely, whose fault is that though? Whose fault is it that in a state she lost her primary in, she didn't even campaign? (Wisconsin)

She likely lost because Bernie supporters didn't go out and vote for her in those states.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,190
8,022
136
Headlines as follows.

"Election is secure" "Election is not rigged"

Yes it is about voting machines. It's still all part of the narrative of our democracy being safe from Russia vs not safe from Russia, and confidence in our Democracy.

Here's a question, what content from the hacks lowered Hillary's votes in the key states she lost? Was it possible that the alleged collusion from the DNC to force Hillary over Bernie that caused her to lose key votes in Wisconsin and Michigan?

Bernie actually won Wisconsin and Michigan. That could have damaged her chances severely, whose fault is that though? Whose fault is it that in a state she lost her primary in, she didn't even campaign? (Wisconsin)

She likely lost because Bernie supporters didn't go out and vote for her in those states.
The only people pushing the hacked voting machine narrative are righties like you who wish to turn the issue into something its not. When you are done fucking that straw man, maybe then you'll be interested in addressing the real issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MongGrel

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,121
13,062
136
That's like trying to say that if the election wasn't decided by electoral college votes, they would have campaigned differently and we can't really predict the outcome. Instead we know that Hillary won the popular vote in an election decided by the electoral college. It's all meaningless discussion at this point.
It's not like that in the slightest.

What Russia cares about is that we think the election was influenced by them, and we lose trust in our democracy. The MSM understood that back before when they believed Hillary would the election, and the message was keep confidence in our democracy. Now that Trump won, the message is Russia has infiltrated our democracy!!!
That's still the message, even if Repubs don't believe in democracy or support the institutions of govt at all. We can see that in the whole voter fraud scam, the gerrymandering, the taking the govt hostage, the near total obstruction during the Obama years, Senate refusal to do their duty wrt Merrick Garland & now a total disrespect for all the people who voted against their radical agenda.

The Russian agenda is obviously to put them in charge so that they can tear this country apart, pit us against each other with wedge issues & truthiness. Repub leaders are acting as useful idiots in that endeavor. Greed & lust for power have blinded them to the larger effect of their total lack of respect & common decency.

It'll be their undoing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OrByte

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,299
349
126
The only people pushing the hacked voting machine narrative are righties like you who wish to turn the issue into something its not. When you are done fucking that straw man, maybe then you'll be interested in addressing the real issue.
I'm saying the message was "Democracy is safe".

I'm not a righty. I am fairly sure being a libertarian makes me closer to progressive than anything really. It's just progressives have a general hatred of freedom, or freedumb as they so endearingly call it, that I get made out to be conservative.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,299
349
126
It's not like that in the slightest.



That's still the message, even if Repubs don't believe in democracy or support the institutions of govt at all. We can see that in the whole voter fraud scam, the gerrymandering, the taking the govt hostage, the near total obstruction during the Obama years, Senate refusal to do their duty wrt Merrick Garland & now a total disrespect for all the people who voted against their radical agenda.

The Russian agenda is obviously to put them in charge so that they can tear this country apart, pit us against each other with wedge issues & truthiness. Repub leaders are acting as useful idiots in that endeavor. Greed & lust for power have blinded them to the larger effect of their total lack of respect & common decency.

It'll be their undoing.
So Trump is really just the democrats waiting their turn for the ensuing golden age of democracy. Once the repuglicans leave Washington with their tails between their legs, it's probably a good 16-20 years of solid democratic control probably.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,097
18,864
136
Headlines as follows.

"Election is secure" "Election is not rigged"

Yes it is about voting machines. It's still all part of the narrative of our democracy being safe from Russia vs not safe from Russia, and confidence in our Democracy.
It sounds like you're trying to say that the media has shifted its narrative when you agree that the media has remained consistent the entire time that voting machines were not compromised. You might be seeing what you want to see as their narrative has not changed.

Here's a question, what content from the hacks lowered Hillary's votes in the key states she lost? Was it possible that the alleged collusion from the DNC to force Hillary over Bernie that caused her to lose key votes in Wisconsin and Michigan?

Bernie actually won Wisconsin and Michigan. That could have damaged her chances severely, whose fault is that though? Whose fault is it that in a state she lost her primary in, she didn't even campaign? (Wisconsin)

She likely lost because Bernie supporters didn't go out and vote for her in those states.
Anything is possible!
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,652
199
101
Are you children still throwing your sad little tantrums? It was the russians, it was the <x>-ist Americans, all while stomping their feet.

Unless someone can show that the actual election machines or vote counts were tampered with, it doesn't mean a damned thing. Sure, Russia probably tried to influence people's opinion, just like many other powers have (and will). Just like the media pushes their views, just like facebook, google, twitter etc tried to push their narrative. Again, the voters decided, all the rest is just BS sour grapes and tantrums about the results.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,121
13,062
136
Headlines as follows.

"Election is secure" "Election is not rigged"

Yes it is about voting machines. It's still all part of the narrative of our democracy being safe from Russia vs not safe from Russia, and confidence in our Democracy.

Here's a question, what content from the hacks lowered Hillary's votes in the key states she lost? Was it possible that the alleged collusion from the DNC to force Hillary over Bernie that caused her to lose key votes in Wisconsin and Michigan?

Bernie actually won Wisconsin and Michigan. That could have damaged her chances severely, whose fault is that though? Whose fault is it that in a state she lost her primary in, she didn't even campaign? (Wisconsin)

She likely lost because Bernie supporters didn't go out and vote for her in those states.
That's what happens when you start rubbing those little grey cells together.

Russian hacking changed the conversation as did incredible concern trolling for Bernie from God only knows how many different directions. It suppressed Dems' flightiest voters, young progressives, all across the board & just enough in the midwest to serve up a Trump victory.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,468
389
121
It really is getting tough to keep track of all the conservative excuses as to why this does matter, I agree. Originally Trump's excuse was that the conclusions of the intelligence agencies were wrong, claiming they were delaying briefing him, saying there was no evidence it was the Russians, etc. Now they've backpedaled and the new excuse is 'well fine it was the Russians but our intelligence agencies said it had no effect on the election!' (also a lie).

I for one have been pretty baffled at just how easily conservatives went along with claims that were pretty obvious lies, and claims that were highly likely to be disproven in short order. The groupthink is strong I guess.
I was specifically referring to all the excuses for Hillary losing the election....this being one of them. Nice deflection though....I would expect no less from you.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,190
8,022
136
I'm saying the message was "Democracy is safe".

I'm not a righty. I am fairly sure being a libertarian makes me closer to progressive than anything really. It's just progressives have a general hatred of freedom, or freedumb as they so endearingly call it, that I get made out to be conservative.
Libertarians are simply the new conservatives. You embrace right wing talking points while distancing yourself from their hateful rhetoric against anyone not white and male in hopes of being able to peddle your failed economic policies. Progressives are simply a boogeyman, or at best a powerless minority in the world of politics, they are simply a caricature you've made up to throw straw on the issues.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,190
8,022
136
Are you children still throwing your sad little tantrums? It was the russians, it was the <x>-ist Americans, all while stomping their feet.

Unless someone can show that the actual election machines or vote counts were tampered with, it doesn't mean a damned thing. Sure, Russia probably tried to influence people's opinion, just like many other powers have (and will). Just like the media pushes their views, just like facebook, google, twitter etc tried to push their narrative. Again, the voters decided, all the rest is just BS sour grapes and tantrums about the results.

And there it is again. Predictable.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,299
349
126
It sounds like you're trying to say that the media has shifted its narrative when you agree that the media has remained consistent the entire time that voting machines were not compromised. You might be seeing what you want to see as their narrative has not changed.



Anything is possible!
The hack is not a Trump card for why Hillary lost the election. Evidence based reasoning for what lowered her votes is probably necessary in order for it to be significant.

I personally believe that Wisconsin and Michigan and Bernie disenfranchisement lost her the election. That could have to do with DNC corruption exposed by the hacks, or just Bernie supporters plain didn't like her enough to vote for her. I know some here, namely Jhhnn claim we would have "liked her just fine" but Bernie was their guy!
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,299
349
126
Libertarians are simply the new conservatives. You embrace right wing talking points while distancing yourself from their hateful rhetoric against anyone not white and male in hopes of being able to peddle your failed economic policies. Progressives are simply a boogeyman, or at best a powerless minority in the world of politics, they are simply a caricature you've made up to throw straw on the issues.
Damn bro, such hate.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,299
349
126
That's what happens when you start rubbing those little grey cells together.

Russian hacking changed the conversation as did incredible concern trolling for Bernie from God only knows how many different directions. It suppressed Dems' flightiest voters, young progressives, all across the board & just enough in the midwest to serve up a Trump victory.
So Hillary not campaigning in a state she lost her primary in has nothing to do with it?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,097
18,864
136
I was specifically referring to all the excuses for Hillary losing the election....this being one of them. Nice deflection though....I would expect no less from you.
Oh, interesting! It's interesting that you would look at a hostile foreign power engaging in unprecedented interference with our elections as primarily an issue about making excuses for who lost instead of...well... a really big fucking deal in its own right. Things like this really show how sick partisanship has become in our society. I hope you can overcome this as it's really poisoning your mind.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,097
18,864
136
The hack is not a Trump card for why Hillary lost the election. Evidence based reasoning for what lowered her votes is probably necessary in order for it to be significant.
Exactly what evidence based reasoning are you looking for? That sounds like an impossible order as it would require an alternate universe or a time machine. All you really need to ask yourself is what I said earlier. Do you think it is plausible that it caused 1 in 200 people to switch, 1 in 100 people to not vote, or some combination of the two? That certainly seems plausible to me.

I personally believe that Wisconsin and Michigan and Bernie disenfranchisement lost her the election. That could have to do with DNC corruption exposed by the hacks, or just Bernie supporters plain didn't like her enough to vote for her. I know some here, namely Jhhnn claim we would have "liked her just fine" but Bernie was their guy!
Yes, all of those things are possible, although there was no Bernie disenfranchisement. Having the DNC say mean things about you or whatever in no way affected anyone's ability to vote for him. He lost fair and square, and he lost quite badly.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,121
13,062
136
The hack is not a Trump card for why Hillary lost the election. Evidence based reasoning for what lowered her votes is probably necessary in order for it to be significant.

I personally believe that Wisconsin and Michigan and Bernie disenfranchisement lost her the election. That could have to do with DNC corruption exposed by the hacks, or just Bernie supporters plain didn't like her enough to vote for her. I know some here, namely Jhhnn claim we would have "liked her just fine" but Bernie was their guy!
Please. You fail to acknowledge that release of the hacked information completely altered the conversation. It's almost impossible to imagine how the election would have gone otherwise.

You also fail to acknowledge that the Russians intended to do so & succeeded brilliantly.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,268
232
106
Oh, interesting! It's interesting that you would look at a hostile foreign power engaging in unprecedented interference with our elections as primarily an issue about making excuses for who lost instead of...well... a really big fucking deal in its own right. Things like this really show how sick partisanship has become in our society. I hope you can overcome this as it's really poisoning your mind.
It's not that we dont care, it's part of the fabric of the world. As I pointed out, every country, from hostile to non-hostile has done whatever it can to influence the out come of any major American election for a very long time. We've done it to other countries as well and far worse than releasing some emails or spreading FUD on facebook. Unless you are suggesting we go to war to stop this or some other silly non-sense I fail to see the whole current faux rage over the issue. If Russia had hacked the voting machines, or bribed the electorates, or done something else far more serious then the rage would have more leg to stand on. As it is, the current whining and bemoaning is just that: bitching and whining.

Great we are all aware that other foreign powers are always looking to intrude upon our country and way of life. That hasn't changed since before the founding of this country. But unless you want to do something very un-American like such as stop free speech, even if it is speech you dislike, then there really isn't a way to do anything about FUD and skeletons being let loose from closets.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,299
349
126
Please. You fail to acknowledge that release of the hacked information completely altered the conversation. It's almost impossible to imagine how the election would have gone otherwise.

You also fail to acknowledge that the Russians intended to do so & succeeded brilliantly.
What are you talking about? I am saying that the hacks, DNC corruption, and I guess throw the FBI warrant in there too all played a big role. The first fault no matter how you look at it lies with Hillary though. If she had possessed competency with email, and if she did not have the DNC wrapped up in her political machine, none of this would have happened.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,097
18,864
136
It's not that we dont care, it's part of the fabric of the world. As I pointed out, every country, from hostile to non-hostile has done whatever it can to influence the out come of any major American election for a very long time. We've done it to other countries as well and far worse than releasing some emails or spreading FUD on facebook. Unless you are suggesting we go to war to stop this or some other silly non-sense I fail to see the whole current faux rage over the issue. If Russia had hacked the voting machines, or bribed the electorates, or done something else far more serious then the rage would have more leg to stand on. As it is, the current whining and bemoaning is just that: bitching and whining.
Don't be silly, countries don't do everything they can to influence other countries' elections, they do what they can without either being caught or eliciting an excsssovely undesirable response. This is a level of intervention that is unprecedented to the best of my knowledge and so of course it's a big deal. How could anyone be confused by such a simple thing?

Also the war thing is stupid. There are many levels of reaction between nothing and war, and hopefully we will make Russia pay enough that it thinks twice next time.

Great we are all aware that other foreign powers are always looking to intrude upon our country and way of life. That hasn't changed since before the founding of this country. But unless you want to do something very un-American like such as stop free speech, even if it is speech you dislike, then there really isn't a way to do anything about FUD and skeletons being let loose from closets.
Of course there is, you punish countries that commit crimes against you and your political parties. Easy peasy.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,268
232
106
Don't be silly, countries don't do everything they can to influence other countries' elections, they do what they can without either being caught or eliciting an excsssovely undesirable response. This is a level of intervention that is unprecedented to the best of my knowledge and so of course it's a big deal. How could anyone be confused by such a simple thing?

Also the war thing is stupid. There are many levels of reaction between nothing and war, and hopefully we will make Russia pay enough that it thinks twice next time.



Of course there is, you punish countries that commit crimes against you and your political parties. Easy peasy.
Wow, I wish I could be as naive as you to be so blissfully ignorant.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,468
389
121
Oh, interesting! It's interesting that you would look at a hostile foreign power engaging in unprecedented interference with our elections as primarily an issue about making excuses for who lost instead of...well... a really big fucking deal in its own right. Things like this really show how sick partisanship has become in our society. I hope you can overcome this as it's really poisoning your mind.
Physician, heal thyself.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY