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Which of the hacks were the Russians behind

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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,621
388
126
Here's the problem: even if you assume that Russia did try to influence previous elections (hard evidence, please, or drop it), it wasn't hacking major US political parties and strategically releasing info. And you don't have to compromise voting machines and ballot counters to change the income. Were there people who changed their minds based on the leaked data, especially when its significance was sometimes distorted by WikiLeaks and Russia-backed news outlets? Most likely yes. The core information is accurate as far as we know, but that doesn't give Russia a free pass.

There are a few reasons to care. First, of course, is that Russia was conspicuously interfering with the democratic process. This is never tolerable, and must be punished. The other: if we don't care, that's encouraging Russia. The report has determined that Russia considers its pro-Trump hacking campaign a success, and will likely use what it learned to skew both future American elections and those elsewhere in the world. Do you really want to reinforce that determination by pretending that the hacks didn't matter?
Uhh, are you without complete knowledge of history? We even had a legitimate Communist and Red party in America at one point. To think that any country in the world wouldn't be trying to influence any major election of one of the most powerful countries in the world anyway it can would be just dumb.

There have been many a major news article and history book chapter on this.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/russia-dnc-hack-donald-trump-foreign-governments-hacking-vietnam-richard-nixon-214111

If you seriously don't believe other countries, from foes to allies, all try to see what they can do to change the outcome then you are living under a rock. False propaganda schemes have been around for a very long time from outside our country and within. Heck, we've done it plenty as a matter of foreign policy to other countries where we can as well. It's just politics and has been that way for as long as politics have been around. Now.. the real question and answer that matters is did Russia or any other outside foreign country manage to actually directly change election results? We've had presidents become presidents in the past because they bribed the right person at the right time.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/11/us/how-johnson-won-election-he-d-lost.html

Now if you can show Russia has been bribing electorates, or directly hacking the votes, or something along the same lines of direct manipulation of the system then it's all saber rattling and bullshit.

Oh, and we've done far worse to other countries when it comes to directly affecting the outcomes which includes completely assassinating political targets. But usually we just bribe officials, sanction others, and start wars instead of the assassinate thing most of the time.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5348804
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-us-has-been-meddling-in-other-countries-elections-for-a-century-it-doesnt-feel-good_us_57983b85e4b02d5d5ed382bd

Do I wish we lived in a nice fantasy world where everyone got along and no foreign entity ever tried to butt into our elections? Sure, but that ain't happening. As long as all they can do is spread propaganda and release skeletons from closets I could care less. As most American politicians do that anyways.
 
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raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,009
217
106
People don't care about truth. They believe what they want to believe.

Democrat sheep believe Russians are hacking.
Republican sheep believe the Russians are not hacking.

What a world.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
People don't care about truth. They believe what they want to believe.

Democrat sheep believe Russians are hacking.
Republican sheep believe the Russians are not hacking.

What a world.
I think many people think the Russians did hack and try to influence the election, I don't buy that the hacking had an impact as big as the Democrat sheep feel it was.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,009
217
106
I think many people think the Russians did hack and try to influence the election, I don't buy that the hacking had an impact as big as the Democrat sheep feel it was.
It doesn't really matter anyway. What we see and know is far from reality.

Whether it's a Democrat or Republican in charge doesn't matter at all.

As far as if this had an impact, it's just a distraction to keep us people busy bickering. And it's working, LOL. We are arguing whether Russia hacked or not.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,340
14,563
136
I think many people think the Russians did hack and try to influence the election, I don't buy that the hacking had an impact as big as the Democrat sheep feel it was.
Please. Release of both the DNC & Podesta hacks hugely altered the course of public discussion & therefore the election. If the stuff hadn't been released we'd have been talking about something, anything else.

Is that too easy, or what?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
29,656
9,993
136
Please. Release of both the DNC & Podesta hacks hugely altered the course of public discussion & therefore the election. If the stuff hadn't been released we'd have been talking about something, anything else.

Is that too easy, or what?
Please don't feed to troll.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Please. Release of both the DNC & Podesta hacks hugely altered the course of public discussion & therefore the election. If the stuff hadn't been released we'd have been talking about something, anything else.

Is that too easy, or what?
Right, how many Americans are political junkies that frequent places like this forum? How many watch the news vs reality TV shows?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,340
14,563
136
Right, how many Americans are political junkies that frequent places like this forum? How many watch the news vs reality TV shows?
You're being deliberately obtuse. The stuff permeated both mainstream & social media along with Trump tweets thru the general election season. All of it was used by Russian & Repub operatives to discredit Clinton & the Dems. All the time talking about that would have been time talking about something else.

You, too, need to read page 15 of the report, particularly the second column top paragraph.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,725
52
91
How come hillary and the DNC aren't thanking the hackers for getting her the popular vote??
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,340
14,563
136
Just face it Clinton failed to reach out to voters in the states that mattered whereas Trump did. Clinton ignored some of them.
Just face it. Russian psy-ops twiddled with America's minds & therefore our election. They changed the conversation. Russian propagandists knew they could depend on Repubs to make a slime fest of the purloined information, & they did.

It's just the truth. The real questions are why did they do it & why we're so vulnerable to it.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,725
52
91
Just face it. Russian psy-ops twiddled with America's minds & therefore our election. They changed the conversation. Russian propagandists knew they could depend on Repubs to make a slime fest of the purloined information, & they did.

It's just the truth. The real questions are why did they do it & why we're so vulnerable to it.

If anybody did anything the internal leak exposed the depth clinton / Debbi Wassermann Schultz / DNC went to screw Bernie Sanders. That's the truth that was never supposed to see the light of day and had clinton won.. the Russian BS story would be dead. The DNC didn't even follow their own procedures for cyber security...they did the same thing clinton did with the illegal servers.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,340
14,563
136
If anybody did anything the internal leak exposed the depth clinton / Debbi Wassermann Schultz / DNC went to screw Bernie Sanders. That's the truth that was never supposed to see the light of day and had clinton won.. the Russian BS story would be dead. The DNC didn't even follow their own procedures for cyber security...they did the same thing clinton did with the illegal servers.
What internal leak? There is no evidence that any such thing occurred. There is ample evidence that the russians hacked the DNC & released the info, thus altering our whole national conversation about the election.

Bernie? He wasn't the nominee because 3M more Dems voted for Clinton in the primaries.

It's just concern trolling coming from you, anyway.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,725
52
91
What internal leak? There is no evidence that any such thing occurred. There is ample evidence that the russians hacked the DNC & released the info, thus altering our whole national conversation about the election.

Bernie? He wasn't the nominee because 3M more Dems voted for Clinton in the primaries.

It's just concern trolling coming from you, anyway.
It wasn't that long ago the liberals were gloating over their "impenetrable blue electoral wall" and it's highly possible the hackers who ever they may be are responsible for hillary's popular vote count as well as the "leaked" emails that resulted in Debbie Wassermann Schultz resignation due to her collusion with hillary and the DNC to screw Bernie Sanders.."leaked embarrassing emails that were released at the start of the party's convention, revealing that the party had conspired against Bernie Sanders and leading to the resignation of Democratic party chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz on July 24."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/25/us/politics/debbie-wasserman-schultz-dnc-wikileaks-emails.html?_r=0
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,062
869
126
If anybody did anything the internal leak exposed the depth clinton / Debbi Wassermann Schultz / DNC went to screw Bernie Sanders. That's the truth that was never supposed to see the light of day and had clinton won.. the Russian BS story would be dead. The DNC didn't even follow their own procedures for cyber security...they did the same thing clinton did with the illegal servers.
Whatever happened to ramen head, anyway? Guess she went down the toilet with Huma, once Mrs. Bill Clinton lost. Shame...they probably both thought they had bright futures, under the Hildabeast's wing. What a pity.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Just face it. Russian psy-ops twiddled with America's minds & therefore our election. They changed the conversation. Russian propagandists knew they could depend on Repubs to make a slime fest of the purloined information, & they did.

It's just the truth. The real questions are why did they do it & why we're so vulnerable to it.
Yet no one can say if these psy-ops changed a single voter's mind. This is just another lame excuse instead of accepting the fact that the left dismissed any poll showing Trump was gaining ground or leading and changing their ground game in the areas. Or all the smug Dems claiming that Trump didn't have a snow ball's chance in hell of winning. How many Dem voters stayed home because of the inaccurate polling thinking their vote wasn't needed?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,340
14,563
136
It wasn't that long ago the liberals were gloating over their "impenetrable blue electoral wall" and it's highly possible the hackers who ever they may be are responsible for hillary's popular vote count as well as the "leaked" emails that resulted in Debbie Wassermann Schultz resignation due to her collusion with hillary and the DNC to screw Bernie Sanders.."leaked embarrassing emails that were released at the start of the party's convention, revealing that the party had conspired against Bernie Sanders and leading to the resignation of Democratic party chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz on July 24."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/25/us/politics/debbie-wasserman-schultz-dnc-wikileaks-emails.html?_r=0
Which proves my point entirely, that Russian hacking changed the national conversation & the direction of the election.

I'm confident that any disinterested party can see that. Trumpsters can't admit to it at all, obviously.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,358
25,096
136
Yeah, they use 2yr old utilities commonly found on the deep Web and leave traces of themselves everywhere.
So by the way, now that even Trump's administration admits it was the Russians do you want to walk back any of your bullshit?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,340
14,563
136
Yet no one can say if these psy-ops changed a single voter's mind. This is just another lame excuse instead of accepting the fact that the left dismissed any poll showing Trump was gaining ground or leading and changing their ground game in the areas. Or all the smug Dems claiming that Trump didn't have a snow ball's chance in hell of winning. How many Dem voters stayed home because of the inaccurate polling thinking their vote wasn't needed?
Any Russian psy-ops person reading that would be giggling hysterically at the incredible density you just displayed.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,358
25,096
136
Yet no one can say if these psy-ops changed a single voter's mind. This is just another lame excuse instead of accepting the fact that the left dismissed any poll showing Trump was gaining ground or leading and changing their ground game in the areas. Or all the smug Dems claiming that Trump didn't have a snow ball's chance in hell of winning. How many Dem voters stayed home because of the inaccurate polling thinking their vote wasn't needed?
That's because it would be literally impossible to prove such a thing without access to an alternate dimension. Does it seem possible to me that either one person in 200 would have their mind changed to switch their vote or one person in 100 decide to stay home? Absolutely. Considering that alone would have swung the election to Clinton, your attempts to paint it as a 'lame excuse' are pathetic. It would take a truly fantastical devotion to fantasy to think that months of negative press DIDN'T change a single voter's mind.

Also, the idea that the left dismissed any poll showing Trump was gaining ground is willful denial of reality. What people said (correctly) was that polling averages were more important than any one poll.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
350
126
Please. Release of both the DNC & Podesta hacks hugely altered the course of public discussion & therefore the election. If the stuff hadn't been released we'd have been talking about something, anything else.

Is that too easy, or what?
That's like trying to say that if the election wasn't decided by electoral college votes, they would have campaigned differently and we can't really predict the outcome. Instead we know that Hillary won the popular vote in an election decided by the electoral college. It's all meaningless discussion at this point.

What Russia cares about is that we think the election was influenced by them, and we lose trust in our democracy. The MSM understood that back before when they believed Hillary would the election, and the message was keep confidence in our democracy. Now that Trump won, the message is Russia has infiltrated our democracy!!!
 

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