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Question Where can we file a complaint regarding GPU prices in the EU?

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,354
445
136
Hello.

As you know perfectly well GPU prices have gone out of this world.

For me this is unacceptable. You may say that that this is the law of supply and demand and to wait it out. Sure that's an option. The other option is to file a complaint and to see what the regulatory authorities in the EU have to say about this and who really is making crazy money in the expense of the people.

So where do we file a formal complaint?

Thanks
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
6,180
3,012
136
For what it's worth you can file it in the waste basket. When there are only a few hundred cards being shipped to different retailers or even entire countries there are going to be shortages and prices will increase. Even if you can get some government body to care and agree that something should be done, it won't fix the problem. The scalpers will just stop selling in Europe and those cards will go overseas instead.

Trying to get around basic economic principles and realities such as this is about as effective as screaming at a raincloud to go somewhere else. If it makes you feel better, go ahead, but don't expect it to actually change anything.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,040
558
126
I hope you understand the mentality of let's not do anything because nothing will change, is completely wrong.
I'm not sure what you think can really be done. Unless you can somehow get every potential buyer to agree to not pay scalper prices, there will be someone who will pay higher prices because they don't want to wait until 2021 for a card at MSRP. I see no way to get that agreement amongst buyers so there is nothing to be done. I guess we could all take up a collection plate for TSMC to buy another fab.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
3,513
2,497
136
I'm not sure what you think can really be done. Unless you can somehow get every potential buyer to agree to not pay scalper prices, there will be someone who will pay higher prices because they don't want to wait until 2021 for a card at MSRP. I see no way to get that agreement amongst buyers so there is nothing to be done. I guess we could all take up a collection plate for TSMC to buy another fab.
The EU is a very different creature to the US. They're stricter with preventing consumer exploitation.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
6,180
3,012
136
I hope you understand the mentality of let's not do anything because nothing will change, is completely wrong.
There's a difference between doing something useful to solve a problem and wasting time on a "feel-good" solution that accomplishes nothing.

Unfortunately the only real solution to the problem (AMD and Nvidia auction all cards to the highest bidder) is one that consumers won't allow. Nothing else is capable of increasing the supply of limiting the demand and the gap between them is what fuels the scalpers.

Direct auctions of cards by AMD/NV let's the price naturally float to the real market rate and removes any room for scalpers to operate and gets cards into the hands of the people who want them most. Additional revenue to AMD/NV allows them to buy additional production capacity to improve supply.

Unless you think they're price fixing or engaged in some other kind of illegal collusion there's no ground for your complaint to stand on. You may as well complain that the prices of beach front property are too high while you're at it. Same situation, same outcome where the prices for such real estate are higher than a property in the slums.

I don't like it any more than you do, but this is the reality of a situation where more people want a thing than there exists quantity of that thing to supply the collective want of the people. Complaining to the government won't fix anything.
 

dr1337

Member
May 25, 2020
160
253
96
Actually maybe we should hear OP out, after all ASML is based in the netherlands and they're way behind on machine shipments, clearly they're the ones orchestrating the shortages! Clearly the EU is the only government has the power to do something about it in this situation 😉😉
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
6,180
3,012
136
I wonder how well that will work out. The U.S. has made robocalls illegal for some time and people still get plenty. The reality is that the robocalls just come from outside of the U.S. from countries that don't care.

All that they've done is made it illegal for people who fall under their jurisdiction to use scalping bots. People outside of the EU won't care and are probably just happy that they have less competition from within the EU engaged in scalping.

Even then it doesn't stop any actual person from scalping. There are plenty of people here on the forms that were able to order or obtain a card that they flipped on eBay or some other website. Until you remove the ability for scalpers to earn a profit, the motivation to do it remains regardless of what laws you might pass. Even if you arrest people for doing it, the problems remains because it just leaves the potential profit for someone else, which is why it's impossible to eliminate the sale of illegal drugs no matter how many people you arrest.
 
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Leeea

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2020
1,132
1,332
96
The U.S. has made robocalls illegal for some time and people still get plenty. The reality is that the robocalls just come from outside of the U.S. from countries that don't care.
The solution to the robocall problem is extraordinary rendition ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition ).


We do it for terrorists, why can't we do it for robocallers? They wreck far reaching harm on society, especially among the elderly with limited incomes.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
6,180
3,012
136
The solution to the robocall problem is extraordinary rendition ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition ).


We do it for terrorists, why can't we do it for robocallers? They wreck far reaching harm on society, especially among the elderly with limited incomes.
Personally I think the only justice those asshats should see is the payload from a drone strike, but other countries might get a tad upset over that. Arresting them does no good or we would have long ago won the war on drugs. Realistically killing them wouldn't matter much either since the next group of scammers will just learn to be a little more careful. As long as there's money to be made doing a thing, people will fill that position.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
51,968
6,904
126
For me this is unacceptable. You may say that that this is the law of supply and demand and to wait it out. Sure that's an option. The other option is to file a complaint and to see what the regulatory authorities in the EU have to say about this and who really is making crazy money in the expense of the people.

So where do we file a formal complaint?
Wouldn't it be funny, if the gov't investigated, and found out that the only reason that GPUs cost "crazy money"... was because gov't caused the "crazy money" by printing so much of it.
 

swilli89

Golden Member
Mar 23, 2010
1,538
1,143
136
Hello.

As you know perfectly well GPU prices have gone out of this world.

For me this is unacceptable. You may say that that this is the law of supply and demand and to wait it out. Sure that's an option. The other option is to file a complaint and to see what the regulatory authorities in the EU have to say about this and who really is making crazy money in the expense of the people.

So where do we file a formal complaint?

Thanks
I think your mentality is mind-numbingly wrong. This is a luxury good that is 100% non-essential. You want government regulatory bodies to step in and do what exactly? Tell AMD/Nvidia how much to charge after they spent billions in R&D? Should stores that buy and sell computer parts be told how to run their business? You can vote with your wallet. Simply don't buy a video card and find a new hobby.

What is your complaint based on exactly? That you're upset and for that the big evil corporations should pay you restitution?
 

KompuKare

Senior member
Jul 28, 2009
685
217
116
Thing is scalpers scalping isn't price collusion unless there is some insiders at the distributors / store / manufacturers level. Which is unlikely.
And EC's monopolies and competition commissioner can only get involved where there is collusion.
As for auctions and the extra profit making it possible to buy more wafers: Nvidia didn't want to partake in a bidding war and that's part of the reason they went with Samsung who have almost no other foundry customers, so they can't increase supply by buying extra wafers.
AMD are of course with TSMC and possibly could get into a bidding war, but even if they won the lead time for 7nm wafers is around 3 months. And the wafers they do have seen to be leaning heavily towards their least profitable market, consoles. Zen 3 CPUs would be by far their most profitable use of wafers, distantly followed by GPUs and finally consoles, so it seems Sony and Microsoft have a pretty good deal when it comes to allocation.
 

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,354
445
136
I think your mentality is mind-numbingly wrong. This is a luxury good that is 100% non-essential. You want government regulatory bodies to step in and do what exactly? Tell AMD/Nvidia how much to charge after they spent billions in R&D? Should stores that buy and sell computer parts be told how to run their business? You can vote with your wallet. Simply don't buy a video card and find a new hobby.

What is your complaint based on exactly? That you're upset and for that the big evil corporations should pay you restitution?
My complaint is based on the fact that we are looking at parts that have set a specific price that is perfectly well known and formally announced by their respective creators.

Did you understand what I said? Where did I say anything about AMD's and Nvidia's prices? My argument which is also the thread title, is how these prices are translated in the EU.

The 6800XT has a fixed price of 649 USD. 649 USD costs today 535 euros. Add to that 19-24% VAT and the price should be 636 to 663 euros. Yet they sell them in my country for 1000 euros! I am sure it is like that elsewhere.

I reported this to AMD directly and it blew their mind. Or at least they pretended it did. Still they said they will forward this info to the appropriate department. I will follow suit contacting whoever is responsible in the EU as well my own countries regulatory authorities and we'll see what happens.

To me it's mind numbing that people just sit there and take it. You know the whole world is not like the US, where you go to the hospital with a broken ankle and you have to sell your house. You can keep your indifference for yourself thank you very much.
 

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,354
445
136
Let me say again that I am not complaining about the price but the resulting price in euros. There's something wrong either you like it or not.

Didn't see me complaining about Ferrari prices now did you?
 

MetalH2600

Member
Dec 12, 2020
26
12
11
I don't think you understand how the market works.

Perhaps vent your frustrations and inability to be patient towards something constructive.

Just want to add, there are good people here setting a great example, perhaps listen to them.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
28,264
5,313
126
Didn't see me complaining about Ferrari prices now did you?
The price of a second hand car and a second hand GPU are both reliant on the same market forces.

I'm not sure there's anything that can be done really.
They aren't official resellers so nvidia can't do much about them selling over rrp. They aren't advertising the items at rrp so there's no dishonest selling.
It is annoying but I'd rather regulatory bodies concentrated on things that are important like medicines and staple foods.
At the minute we are in a global pandemic and there's shortages of important things and supply lines are stretched all over the EU, the last thing they need to get involved with is if you can get your preferred GPU at an acceptable price to you.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
51,968
6,904
126
My complaint is based on the fact that we are looking at parts that have set a specific price that is perfectly well known and formally announced by their respective creators.

Did you understand what I said? Where did I say anything about AMD's and Nvidia's prices? My argument which is also the thread title, is how these prices are translated in the EU.

The 6800XT has a fixed price of 649 USD. 649 USD costs today 535 euros. Add to that 19-24% VAT and the price should be 636 to 663 euros. Yet they sell them in my country for 1000 euros! I am sure it is like that elsewhere.

I reported this to AMD directly and it blew their mind. Or at least they pretended it did. Still they said they will forward this info to the appropriate department. I will follow suit contacting whoever is responsible in the EU as well my own countries regulatory authorities and we'll see what happens.

To me it's mind numbing that people just sit there and take it. You know the whole world is not like the US, where you go to the hospital with a broken ankle and you have to sell your house. You can keep your indifference for yourself thank you very much.
Do European retailers not have the right to freely set prices? Is everything a top-down Command Economy in Europe, like it was in Soviet Russia?

In the US, of course, such "price fixing" would be illegal collusion between the mfg of the good and the retailers, and would actually be prohibited. Hence MSRP - Manufacturer SUGGESTED Retail Price. NOT MCRP - Mfg CONTROLLED retail price.

I know, you LONG for the assuredness of the Soviet system. Why worry about choice, when there is only one choice? Why worry about profit, when the price of everything is fixed...
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
51,968
6,904
126
The 6800XT has a fixed price of 649 USD. 649 USD costs today 535 euros. Add to that 19-24% VAT and the price should be 636 to 663 euros. Yet they sell them in my country for 1000 euros! I am sure it is like that elsewhere.
BTW, the 6800XT does not have a "fixed" price. It has an MSRP ("suggested") retail price of $649 USD... in the USA! You cannot simply currency-convert that price into Euros, or whatever, and expect to pay "only" that price, in places OTHER than the USA. We have a very efficient distribution system here, and that keeps our cost on goods low. In Europe, the distribution system may be more complex or more costly, and thus, the prices are higher in places outside the USA.

Also, sometimes, companies translate prices directly into native currency. So, $649 USD in USA, E649 Euros in Europe (plus VAT!). At least, that's how I understand they price the Big Mac.

Instead of using $USD or Euros, how many Big Macs can you buy, in your native country, with the price of the 6800XT? I expect the number would be similar to here. Call it "the Big Mac index".
 

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