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Question Where can we file a complaint regarding GPU prices in the EU?

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RasCas99

Member
May 18, 2020
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Look, I agree that "monopolies are bad for the consumer", and if, in the ticket scenario, there is one singular entity buying up most of the tickets, only the resell them for a higher amount by unlawfully cornering the market (and thus becoming a monopoly), then that's one thing.

It's another thing entirely for "opportunistic resellers", to step in and individually obtain GPUs and re-sell them, to take care of bubbles of "market inefficiencies", and make themselves some sweet $$$ in the process.

Besides, tickets are kind of a special case, those are usually one-of-a-kind events, and not something (a good) that is more-or-less continually-produced until it hits EOL in a year or more away. (So for tickets to a certain event, say a "farewell tour rock concert" by some group, the buyer doesn't really have the option to NOT pay the scalper prices and "just wait", like they can for GPUs, and drive the scalper's price margins' down.)
They can wait for the next show , but thats beyond the point , the big sellers need to follow Apple`s steps here or up their game somehow , go with a "buy and get in queue" is working for years , you would still get scalpers selling the first waves (same as iPhones) , but folks will get their phones , 1 -2 months later , in the GPU case , we need to refresh sites ,and go through hoops to compete with bots to buy the products , this does no good to AMD/Nvidia or Bestbuy or the rest of the market place.

Some of you guys think Scalping is "opportunistic resellers" that "make themselves some sweet $$$ in the process." is a good thing , or at least "nothing wrong with it" , while I believe its a bad abuse of the system that needs to be fixed and removed from the market place , this could be easily repaired if those companies put some money into the correct infrastructure , but alas , AMD/Nvidia doenst really care about it , they sell the products to real users or scalpers and get the same money.
I will say , that if one company solves this for the next release , they will get so much good faith from the public that it will go along way with their sales , you will also see the other company creating a similar platform ASAP.

TLDR - If god damn Apple can go ahead and implement a queue why cant the rest of them do something about it ?
 
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Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,716
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TLDR - If god damn Apple can go ahead and implement a queue why cant the rest of them do something about it ?
It mostly works for Apple because they are able to satisfy demand relatively quickly. If GPU makers could catch up to demand in a month or so I doubt there would be much market for scalping them. A queue without extensive anti-bot protection would just be flooded the instant it went up if iphones tooks 6 months to stabilize.
 

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,318
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It mostly works for Apple because they are able to satisfy demand relatively quickly. If GPU makers could catch up to demand in a month or so I doubt there would be much market for scalping them. A queue without extensive anti-bot protection would just be flooded the instant it went up if iphones tooks 6 months to stabilize.
That's why they had to wait until more inventory was built. AMD and Nvidia are both at fault here. They knew what would happen. Did they care? No!

There must be a law, that you do not ship, until you can support demand. Or to make 100% sure, that one product goes to one person. If they do not care for either, then they are accountable for promoting these behaviors.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,236
1,850
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Dude drop it with the Soviet crap, seriously.
You were the one proposing the laws that harken back to the idiotic central planning policies used by the Soviets. No one knows what demand actually is until it's measured. The market price is what automatically adjusts to bring supply and demand into equilibrium.

If you don't allow that you invariably wind up with a lot of companies that overshoot their estimates and have a lot of excess inventory that no one wants and that's not good for anyone. Never mind the rest of what you propose requires so much corporate or government intrusion into your life that you'd be immeasurably lucky if that's all it was used for.

Also, stop for a second and apply some common sense to what you're proposing. Earlier this year there was a shortage of toilet paper due to people overbuying and stocking up which perpetuated the behavior even more. Should the companies that were manufacturing it be prevented from releasing any new product until they could satisfy this new frenzied demand? Do we need government appointed toilet paper accountants to make sure no one is buying too much? Just let prices increase and naturally mediate people's behavior.
 

tajoh111

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
227
215
116
You were the one proposing the laws that harken back to the idiotic central planning policies used by the Soviets. No one knows what demand actually is until it's measured. The market price is what automatically adjusts to bring supply and demand into equilibrium.

If you don't allow that you invariably wind up with a lot of companies that overshoot their estimates and have a lot of excess inventory that no one wants and that's not good for anyone. Never mind the rest of what you propose requires so much corporate or government intrusion into your life that you'd be immeasurably lucky if that's all it was used for.

Also, stop for a second and apply some common sense to what you're proposing. Earlier this year there was a shortage of toilet paper due to people overbuying and stocking up which perpetuated the behavior even more. Should the companies that were manufacturing it be prevented from releasing any new product until they could satisfy this new frenzied demand? Do we need government appointed toilet paper accountants to make sure no one is buying too much? Just let prices increase and naturally mediate people's behavior.
Exactly. Such selling policies would involve so much government monitoring, that it would simply do the opposite of what PSOlord wants. It would hurt competition, innovation and ultimately the consumer.

Only companies with the deepest pockets could survive such business practices as any company would be constantly over producing as it is impossible as you said to know exactly know the demand on the market. This would causes an over supply which would cause prices to collapse and kill companies that were forced to stop selling until supply was accumulated by ceasing cashflow, forcing companies to swallow up depreciation and for sellers or producers to eat any losses from any unsold card. This would have an effect so that only a single company can exists(the one that can eat these losses for the longest). We have seen this already during this pandemic with lockdown of businesses killing small companies first. Forcing a company to stop opening and selling while forcing to spend extra money can be tremendously expensive.

It would be a disaster for Nvidia and AMD if they were forced to stop selling cards for 6 months to safety build up enough stock for the market. If in 6 months the pandemic is over and demand for videocards fade, you have recipe for disaster brewing. When you have a tremendous amount of inventory, you have the potential to eat a tremendous amount of depreciation expense. Combine this with having no cashflow for 6 months because you were forced to stop selling which would be hundreds of millions if not billions in expenses accumulated(combine cost of goods sold and R and D/business expenses) and you basically left with a situation where companies with the deepest pockets can survive only. Forcing such measures would kill companies until monopolies are left.

Monopolies are bad because even with governments controlling pricing, a company must find ways to make money which means lowering expenses which comes at the cost at spending less on R and D, loss of jobs and more derivative products like the various lake products coming out of intel. We might gets cheaper products but if products are 5% faster every year, value worsens for consumers in the long run compared to the system we have in place now. E.g performance doubling in 16 years at the same price vs what we have today.
 
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Artorias

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,267
358
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How is pre-ordering not a thing in 2021. I would give a non-refundable deposit for the next 4080, 5080, etc...if I knew I'd get a card straight from the manufacture on release day.

As long as they're held accountable for performance increases this seems like the only way going forward. Stopping bots, scalpers and miners is a loosing game.
 

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