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Question Where can we file a complaint regarding GPU prices in the EU?

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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,236
1,850
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My complaint is based on the fact that we are looking at parts that have set a specific price that is perfectly well known and formally announced by their respective creators.
Will you also be filing a complaint with the regulatory body in a year when these cards start to be sold below this set specific price?

You may want to look up the term MSRP, specifically the "S" and what it means with regard to your entire argument. I'm reasonably certain that most European countries have what's referred to as a first sale doctrine that gives your complaint no legal grounds at all.
 

swilli89

Golden Member
Mar 23, 2010
1,534
1,130
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My complaint is based on the fact that we are looking at parts that have set a specific price that is perfectly well known and formally announced by their respective creators.

Did you understand what I said? Where did I say anything about AMD's and Nvidia's prices? My argument which is also the thread title, is how these prices are translated in the EU.

The 6800XT has a fixed price of 649 USD. 649 USD costs today 535 euros. Add to that 19-24% VAT and the price should be 636 to 663 euros. Yet they sell them in my country for 1000 euros! I am sure it is like that elsewhere.

I reported this to AMD directly and it blew their mind. Or at least they pretended it did. Still they said they will forward this info to the appropriate department. I will follow suit contacting whoever is responsible in the EU as well my own countries regulatory authorities and we'll see what happens.

To me it's mind numbing that people just sit there and take it. You know the whole world is not like the US, where you go to the hospital with a broken ankle and you have to sell your house. You can keep your indifference for yourself thank you very much.
Yes, you're correct. The whole world isn't like the US.

What was Europe's last major piece of silicon worth discussing? England's ARM processor?

Make fun of the US all you want (bit puzzled where your jab about our health care costs comes form) but in the end, it's OUR free market system that has created so many of the things you apparently want so desperately that you will sink time and effort into complaining and filing reports because it's more expensive due to retailers in YOUR country.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
15,267
556
126
It's a very simple supply and demand issue, give it a couple of months and you can buy them at prices around the MSRP. AMD and nvidia could have stockpiled the videocards for a march launch, making the readily available for most customers. But why would they do that? And even if they did you would still have to wait a couple of months to get your video card.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
4,705
1,104
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BTW, the 6800XT does not have a "fixed" price. It has an MSRP ("suggested") retail price of $649 USD... in the USA! You cannot simply currency-convert that price into Euros, or whatever, and expect to pay "only" that price, in places OTHER than the USA. We have a very efficient distribution system here, and that keeps our cost on goods low. In Europe, the distribution system may be more complex or more costly, and thus, the prices are higher in places outside the USA.
It's not that. Even Ryzen 3000-series last year which had serious shortages never were much above the msrp+ tax price. About $50 for the 3900x. in contrast just like pslord says, 6800xt is almost $1000 here as well. even with tax included there is a a $250-$300 "hidden tax" from AMD GPU. note that while NV cards are also above msrp there aren't by such a huge margin meaning RTX 3800 is significantly cheaper here currently (if you could actually buy one). So something is really fishy.
 
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Dribble

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2005
1,867
395
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It's just market economics. I don't see the same number of pitch forks when there is oversupply of some electronic component and you can now buy them for under MSRP.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,236
1,850
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Note that while NV cards are also above msrp there aren't by such a huge margin meaning RTX 3800 is significantly cheaper here currently (if you could actually buy one). So something is really fishy.
If you can't actually buy something for a particular price it doesn't matter what it's listed as. I'm starting a new web store and advertising the 3080 at a $100 discount over MSRP. Can you believe it, a 3080 for only $600? Such a shame that I don't actually have any to sell so it hardly matters what I write on the display.

I don't know which country you're from, but I looked on a few of the European ebay sites and the actual market prices for the 3080 and 6800 XT are both in the same ballpark of $1,000, at least based on what's getting bids. If you can't buy it for less than that, it isn't really any cheaper.

There's no hidden taxes or shadowy cabals conspiring against consumers. It's regular old supply issues in the face of high demand and a lot of money to be made by any middleman that can wedge themselves in between those forces.
 

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
4,772
706
126
Wow you guys sure do seem negative and unhelpful. If the OP wants to file a complaint to his govt representative, more power to him. That said, I live in the USA and I do not know much about EU regulatory law, so I feel it would be best to do some research.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
4,607
107
106
I don't know which country you're from, but I looked on a few of the European ebay sites and the actual market prices for the 3080 and 6800 XT are both in the same ballpark of $1,000, at least based on what's getting bids. If you can't buy it for less than that, it isn't really any cheaper.
The funny thing is even among those cards getting bids, half the auctions are fake scams (at least on the US ebay). The description says it's just a photo of the card or some nonsense like that, but people are still bidding.
 

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,318
371
136
If you can't actually buy something for a particular price it doesn't matter what it's listed as. I'm starting a new web store and advertising the 3080 at a $100 discount over MSRP. Can you believe it, a 3080 for only $600? Such a shame that I don't actually have any to sell so it hardly matters what I write on the display.

I don't know which country you're from, but I looked on a few of the European ebay sites and the actual market prices for the 3080 and 6800 XT are both in the same ballpark of $1,000, at least based on what's getting bids. If you can't buy it for less than that, it isn't really any cheaper.

There's no hidden taxes or shadowy cabals conspiring against consumers. It's regular old supply issues in the face of high demand and a lot of money to be made by any middleman that can wedge themselves in between those forces.
And that's exactly what the complaint is for. That's what I want the regulatory authorities to investigate.

All that about mSrp is fine, known and understandable. I want to know who is responsible. Is Nvidia or AMD selling at higher prices? Are the AIBs? Or is that nefarious middle man? And if the regulatory authorities can do something about it, why not? The EU is all about improving everything for the sake of the citizens. It's only natural for us to be responsible citizens.

They called me soviet for asking a simple question. So I guess I should call them capitalist pigs for their responses? heh
 
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BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
8,473
1,396
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Isn't filing a suit the way with the Europe these days? If you don't like something claim anti-competitiveness and then get EU/EC to file legal changes to bring the little guy some much needed relief.

BTW, I've known people to fly to other continents to buy the same product more cheaply and bring it home.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,236
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The funny thing is even among those cards getting bids, half the auctions are fake scams (at least on the US ebay). The description says it's just a photo of the card or some nonsense like that, but people are still bidding.
Most of the fake ones are just there to act as bot bait. I've seen scams like that in the past, but it seems like a lot of them (if you actually click on it and read it) contain text about not bidding on it if you're a human. Those tend to have prices below or closer to MSRP, but it's probably not people doing the actual bidding for the most part.

All that about mSrp is fine, known and understandable. I want to know who is responsible. Is Nvidia or AMD selling at higher prices? Are the AIBs? Or is that nefarious middle man? And if the regulatory authorities can do something about it, why not? The EU is all about improving everything for the sake of the citizens. It's only natural for us to be responsible citizens.
None of those would be illegal so it doesn't really matter who is responsible. If AMD or Nvidia have increased their prices then it's by definition a new MSRP. The AIBs can sell their cards for whatever they want since it's their product and they get to set the MSRP for them. AIB models typically are more expensive regardless of any shortages or not because they're better cards with better materials and components. Stores can sell for whatever they want since a company can only suggest what it retail for and has no control over the store's pricing. Private individuals can sell their private property for whatever price they want.

Why don't you stop and think about this from another perspective to see why what you think will somehow improve things for the citizens actually won't. Suppose you wanted to sell something that you own, a house, a car, a television, or anything for that matter. You've found someone who's willing to buy it from you for a price you've both agreed upon, but someone comes swooping in demanding that you sell it for a much lower price for the supposed good of responsible citizens. I suspect you'd be rightly irked and suddenly demanding this busy body keep their body busy elsewhere.

Trying to set price controls doesn't work. It doesn't matter what kind of economic model you use, it's a bad idea. If anyone is calling you a soviet it's because they tried (and failed) to use them. They don't work in market economies either and before you decide you're doing good, make sure you're not doing any harm. Far too many good intentions lead to bad ends. Venezuela is currently trying to use these to the exact opposite effect as intended. Sadly they're not doing it with GPUs, but with food, and their country is starving. Perhaps someone thought that a regulatory agency could be used to improve the lives of their citizens and didn't stop to ask if those good intentions would actually accomplish anything?

If people here think you're foolish, you may want to stop and ask yourself if it's because what you are proposing really is foolish, rather than it just being a bunch of a capitalist pigs poking at you.
 

Head1985

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2014
1,844
653
136
Hello.

As you know perfectly well GPU prices have gone out of this world.

For me this is unacceptable. You may say that that this is the law of supply and demand and to wait it out. Sure that's an option. The other option is to file a complaint and to see what the regulatory authorities in the EU have to say about this and who really is making crazy money in the expense of the people.

So where do we file a formal complaint?

Thanks
Yeah everything here in EU cost 50% more.Everyone also ignoring fact that EURO is now 1.22 USD.So every GPU should cost LESS euro than USD MSRP yet it cost more most of the time and shops even ADD VAT into that.
In past prices were ok it was like this:
GTX480-500USD/450EURO or 520euro with VAT.
Today Its like 500USD/600EURO+VAT=720EURO real price.
 
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paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,350
255
126
www.the-teh.com
The rent price of GPUs is too damn high!

We need GPU subsidies! For the poor!

Edit: That's /s
Asking for a friend, how hard would it be to manufacture our own?

OP this at least in the US is the norm. I had to buy a new washing machine to replace my 6 year old one because parts would only be available in Feb. When I went to buy a new one out of 6 stores only 1 had a decent floor model available. How about auto parts? My truck bumper that usually would cost $250, was $800. It’s cause of Covid, obviously many factories have been shut down, supply and demand is in disarray. I paid $550 for my 2070 Super new, it’s now worth $799 used.

I’ll join you if you want to file a complaint on eBay. 1/3 of 3080 RTX cards are auctions for pictures of cards...
 

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
8,473
1,396
126
I was over on the AVS forum the other day and noticed a forum regular over there claiming he bought himself and XBX and didn't like and was selling it on AVS, used, for the conveniently used price of $750. That is exactly what scalpers are selling for on the low end. Selling something used because you didn't like it and then expect to make a nice profit is BS. AVS should have banned him.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,236
1,850
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Why? No one else gets banned for selling at market prices and no one is forced to buy from that poster. If anyone thinks the asking price is too high, they can make a counter offer for less.

Would you demand someone sell a baseball card that's increased in value for the same price was purchased at? How about their home that was purchased years ago at a much lower price.

Your proposed solution is incapable of fixing the problem. Getting upset and demanding people be banned is completely counter-productive and petty.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,495
172
106
There's a difference between doing something useful to solve a problem and wasting time on a "feel-good" solution that accomplishes nothing.

Unfortunately the only real solution to the problem (AMD and Nvidia auction all cards to the highest bidder) is one that consumers won't allow. Nothing else is capable of increasing the supply of limiting the demand and the gap between them is what fuels the scalpers.

Direct auctions of cards by AMD/NV let's the price naturally float to the real market rate and removes any room for scalpers to operate and gets cards into the hands of the people who want them most. Additional revenue to AMD/NV allows them to buy additional production capacity to improve supply.
Actually there IS something that can be done to fix the problem. Have all vendors setup a queue/wait list for each of the cards. Then you have people sign up for the card they want to buy, and the vendor sells them first come/first served, sending an email to the next person on the queue and giving them a day or three to respond before they are then dropped for the next person. Only one card can be bought by anyone in the queue, and you can only be in one queue at a time (by/per vendor). You can also not purchase more than 2 cards by going into the queue per vendor until there is no longer a need for the queuing system due to production meeting demand. Purchases that use the same credit card/billing address as more than 1 previous purchase will be denied and the next person on the queue will be sent the offer to purchase that card (again, until the supply begins the meet demand).

Sure, this sucks for people who want multiple cards, but it is what it is and it is fair/straight-forward. The bonus is that the vendors know what the demand is for each card and can then make sure they are aiming for those targets. The bots and resellers will quickly not work as they will have no way to receive cards for resale as their credit cards and billing addresses will quickly be prevented from ordering additional cards.
 

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
8,473
1,396
126
Why? No one else gets banned for selling at market prices and no one is forced to buy from that poster. If anyone thinks the asking price is too high, they can make a counter offer for less.

Would you demand someone sell a baseball card that's increased in value for the same price was purchased at? How about their home that was purchased years ago at a much lower price.

Your proposed solution is incapable of fixing the problem. Getting upset and demanding people be banned is completely counter-productive and petty.
It is one thing to sell something for a used price, but selling it with an asking/starting price 50% higher on your excuse you didn't like it is counter-intuitive. And asking for the exact same price the scalpers are suggests he's a scalper, too. BTW, I offered my opinion and AVS can do whatever they like. But as a member it kind of colors the person in my eyes and I'm not associating with him.
 
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Kocicak

Senior member
Jan 17, 2019
338
215
86
This is so funny. Purchase is a contract. If you do not like the terms of the contract (as the price), you do not make the contract. End of the story.

There may be some laws against unjust overpricing of staple food or other necessities of life.

A graphic card is a luxury good and you really do not need it to survive.
 
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dr1337

Member
May 25, 2020
90
155
66
Selling something used because you didn't like it and then expect to make a nice profit is BS. AVS should have banned him
But as a member it kind of colors the person in my eyes and I'm not associating with him
You ought to try some other hobbies like playing an instrument or restoring a car. Because this behavior is quite the norm when new stock isn't being made and the things you're buying are now 10-20-30 years old. So from my eyes it sounds quite spoiled to be upset over people scalping new products that are definitely going to be in production for a long time to come. Supply and Demand is a fact of life and in this specific case its not like his xbx is the last one in the world. If anyone wants an XBX at MSRP you only have to be patient, demand is crazy and they can only produce so many.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,236
1,850
136
Actually there IS something that can be done to fix the problem. Have all vendors setup a queue/wait list for each of the cards. Then you have people sign up for the card they want to buy, and the vendor sells them first come/first served, sending an email to the next person on the queue and giving them a day or three to respond before they are then dropped for the next person. . . .
This is only half of the solution. Unless the cards are auctioned to allow the price to reach market value, you'll still get scalpers because plenty of normal people can just sign up to get in the queue and have all of the time in the world to get a card to flip when normally they wouldn't bother fighting against the bots.

It's also not particularly difficult to get multiple cards and ship to different addresses so it won't cut down on the organized scalpers as much as you think either. As long as there's a possibility of making a $300+ profit on flipping one of these cards, people will be getting in line to scalp them.

Companies can try to set up additional hoops to prevent scalping, but most of that will only hinder it for a short time instead of stopping it, and at a certain point doing more becomes cost prohibitive and just eats further into the margins of the the merchant selling the cards for little benefit to them.

It is one thing to sell something for a used price, but selling it with an asking/starting price 50% higher on your excuse you didn't like it is counter-intuitive.
Why is it counter-intuitive? Suppose the person legitimately did buy it because they were interested and then decided for some reason that they didn't want it or like it for whatever reason. Maybe the performance isn't as good as was expected or there just aren't any good games available yet. Perhaps the extra $250 it could be resold for is more enticing.

If people will pay $750 for it, why sell it for less than that? If you were selling a used car for $5,000 and I came along and offered you $6,000 would you turn that down? While I agree that buying from scalpers only further encourages the behavior and wouldn't buy from them myself, I won't ask people to ban them for asking a market price just because someone doesn't think it's fair.
 

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
8,473
1,396
126
It is counter intuitive to believe that the person is selling it USED because of the reason they gave and expect 50% above price on a new, current item. This isn't a case of a 50 year old car that you put time and effort into, or had something sitting in a box, new and is not deemed a collectible to demand a much higher price. This is someone trying to scalp under a thin veil he didn't like it. OK, if that's the case return it. But returning something you don't like is not the goal, here. The goal was to make $250 profit on it. Plain and simple.

Had he just came out and said he knew someone scalping a unit and been done with it then I would have left it at that. Seriously, how many of you bought something recently, chose NOT to return it and instead put it up for sale for 50% more than what you paid for it?
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
50,040
5,856
126
The goal was to make $250 profit on it. Plain and simple.
Is there something wrong with that, when it's a non-essential, luxury good? Sell it for what the market will bear, no?

If you bought a house for $100,000, and three years later, there was in influx of population into your town, and you could sell it for $300,000 and move into "the country", wouldn't you, if you wanted to move? Or would you prefer that town officials said that you couldn't sell your house for "market price", that it was "unfair", because you had only paid $100,000 for it?
 

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