When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns

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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I suppose this thread couldn't have waited until at least a day after the event. :roll:

Condolences to the families of those affected.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: cliftonite
Schools policy says:

The goal of every member of our police, security, emergency services and parking and transportation departments is to provide for a safe, secure, enjoyable and fulfilling university experience.

Pretty tough thing when someone wakes up and decides this is the day to die and take out as many with him as possible in the process.

This can happen anywhere anytime regardless of so called "gun control" or any other nanny state "safegaurds".

This nutjob "infringed" on all of Americans rights today just as the 911 hijackers did their day but in the end we will still be "Free" Americans, don't let the occasional nutjob ever have a chance of taking that away.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,586
50,771
136
Originally posted by: eleison
Some people have an irrational hated of guns. I do not. If knifes are killing more pople (regardless if they are more common... regardless if they are cheaper... etc.), why wouldn't you want to focus on the knife instead of the gun? A person who is dead is still dead -- be it by knife... by gun.. by fighting... he is still dead..

If people truely care about the well being of other people getting murdered they should figure out why... saying the banning guns will solve the murder issue (especially in Britian) makes no sense when most of the murders are from knifes... unless of course, these people have an irrational fear/hatred of guns...

I think you're missing the point. The fact that knives are the largest killer in Britain is very very likely to be because guns are so hard to come by. This is more of a statemet to Britain's effective gun control then the dangerousness of knives.
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: eleison
Some people have an irrational hated of guns. I do not. If knifes are killing more pople (regardless if they are more common... regardless if they are cheaper... etc.), why wouldn't you want to focus on the knife instead of the gun? A person who is dead is still dead -- be it by knife... by gun.. by fighting... he is still dead..

If people truely care about the well being of other people getting murdered they should figure out why... saying the banning guns will solve the murder issue (especially in Britian) makes no sense when most of the murders are from knifes... unless of course, these people have an irrational fear/hatred of guns...

I think you're missing the point. The fact that knives are the largest killer in Britain is very very likely to be because guns are so hard to come by. This is more of a statemet to Britain's effective gun control then the dangerousness of knives.

^ that one
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
0
0
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
I don't think guns should be eliminated, but there should be better restrictions on the types of guns people can have. Not that I think it would have helped here, as I think the VA Tech guy used a shotgun (correct me if I'm wrong). I also think there should be many more restrictions or requirements on getting them.

This being said, somehow and someway the wrong people are going to get a hold of guns they shouldn't have. I don't think we can eliminate that through rules and regulations, at least not completely, but we've got to start somewhere. There are other ways of trying to fix that, but you can't think you're going to fix the entire problem with one solution, and keep everyone happy. It's got to be broken into step and these steps need to start being taken.

Ok... What type of guns do you think should be restricted? How about the so called "assault weapons"? It sounds nice but when you look at the statistics its pointless and a waste of time. First of all, the definition the legislators use for assault weapons is completely absurd. "Assault weapons" are currently readily available to law abiding citizens (using the definition the legislators use). Yet, less than 3% of gun crimes involve a weapon that "resembles" an assault weapon. In general assault weapons are to expensive and bulky for criminals to consider using. You could ban every single rifle in existence, including hunting rifles, and you would not put a single dent in gun crime.

I agree. I grew up hunting most of my life and my father's arsenal consisted primarily of rifles and shotguns. Personally, I can't imagine needing anything else. I've never understood the need for pistols or automatic weapons. I understand the need to use them for hunting and for defense, but I don't see a justifiable reason for anything except those two types, except for perhaps law enforcement.

Like I said, I don't think this would have help in the VT case, and it's not going to solve every potential problem, but it's a start. Additional measure could be taken with longer waiting period and better background checks. If you're only using the gun for hunting, there is no reason you can't abide with a waiting period.

This is JMO, but I think something definitely needs to be done.
 

eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: eleison
Originally posted by: Atheus


They'd better - what else is gonna save me? A bunch of armed vigilantes?

you're right... be like water.. no one will save you...

http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Save-Lives-Americans-Defending/dp/1559502266

Oh yea I'll just wait for an American to save me :laugh:

The title of that book is so much like Orwellian doublethink it's almost funny.


Correction... NO ONE will save you... be like water... you are all alone!!! hahahaha
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
29 confirmed.

Originally posted by: Lothar
Allowing students to carry guns on campus is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

That's too bad because maybe if one of those 29 was packing the number wouldn't be 29.

That's pretty much nonsense.
If student was packing a gun I can guarantee you that there will be a shooting incident at least once every 2 week.
Sure 29 students won't die in one day like today, but the total deaths from guns will either still be the same (or may even end up higher) by the end of the year.
How many students on campus has died from guns at VA Tech this year?

Like was said earlier most college students aren't mature enough.
People will shoot while drunk, shoot the boyfriend their ex is going out with, and shoot teachers who gave them bad grades.

Hell, since I've been going to this school for 5 years now there has been numerous suicides...
1.) A student jumped from the School of Business.
2.) A student jumped from the School of Engineering.
3.) A medical school student stabbed himself to death because of class stress and also girlfriend issues.
4.) A lesbian student jumped from the 9th floor of my dormitory because she saw her partner talking to another girl and was jealous. This was particularly disgusting as I saw the blood stains and the head separated from the body on this one as I was entering the dormitory.
5.) A male student jumped from the 10th floor of the opposite dormitory to the one above because his girl dumped him for one of his friends.

In each of those cases, I would prefer if such mentally unstable idiots keep jumping off buildings killing themselves and no one else than to be parading around with guns in my dormitory or school department.
 

eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Originally posted by: engineereeyore



I agree. I grew up hunting most of my life and my father's arsenal consisted primarily of rifles and shotguns. Personally, I can't imagine needing anything else. I've never understood the need for pistols or automatic weapons. I understand the need to use them for hunting and for defense, but I don't see a justifiable reason for anything except those two types, except for perhaps law enforcement.

Like I said, I don't think this would have help in the VT case, and it's not going to solve every potential problem, but it's a start. Additional measure could be taken with longer waiting period and better background checks. If you're only using the gun for hunting, there is no reason you can't abide with a waiting period.

This is JMO, but I think something definitely needs to be done.



http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?P...5Carchive%5C200209%5CNAT20020917a.html

kinda hard to do conceal and carry with rifles and shotguns..
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: eleison
Some people have an irrational hated of guns. I do not. If knifes are killing more pople (regardless if they are more common... regardless if they are cheaper... etc.), why wouldn't you want to focus on the knife instead of the gun? A person who is dead is still dead -- be it by knife... by gun.. by fighting... he is still dead..

If people truely care about the well being of other people getting murdered they should figure out why... saying the banning guns will solve the murder issue (especially in Britian) makes no sense when most of the murders are from knifes... unless of course, these people have an irrational fear/hatred of guns...

I think you're missing the point. The fact that knives are the largest killer in Britain is very very likely to be because guns are so hard to come by. This is more of a statemet to Britain's effective gun control then the dangerousness of knives.

^ that one

So now in Britain aren't they pushing for knife control? Talk about something easy to make if you really want one.

What are you going to do when it gets down to "sharp, pointy stick" control, cut down all the trees?
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: eleison
Some people have an irrational hated of guns. I do not. If knifes are killing more pople (regardless if they are more common... regardless if they are cheaper... etc.), why wouldn't you want to focus on the knife instead of the gun? A person who is dead is still dead -- be it by knife... by gun.. by fighting... he is still dead..

If people truely care about the well being of other people getting murdered they should figure out why... saying the banning guns will solve the murder issue (especially in Britian) makes no sense when most of the murders are from knifes... unless of course, these people have an irrational fear/hatred of guns...

I think you're missing the point. The fact that knives are the largest killer in Britain is very very likely to be because guns are so hard to come by. This is more of a statemet to Britain's effective gun control then the dangerousness of knives.

^ that one

So now in Britain aren't they pushing for knife control? Talk about something easy to make if you really want one.

What are you going to do when it gets down to "sharp, pointy stick" control, cut down all the trees?

You think there should not be a line drawn somewhere? You agree with nuclear bomb control, or should everyone have nuclear bombs?
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
765
0
0
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
29 confirmed.

Originally posted by: Lothar
Allowing students to carry guns on campus is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

That's too bad because maybe if one of those 29 was packing the number wouldn't be 29.

That's pretty much nonsense.
If student was packing a gun I can guarantee you that there will be a shooting incident at least once every 2 week.
Sure 29 students won't die in one day like today, but the total deaths from guns will either still be the same (or may even end up higher) by the end of the year.
How many students on campus has died from guns at VA Tech this year?

Like was said earlier most college students aren't mature enough.
People will shoot while drunk, shoot the boyfriend their ex is going out with, and shoot teachers who gave them bad grades.

Hell, since I've been going to this school for 5 years now there has been numerous suicides...
1.) A student jumped from the School of Business.
2.) A student jumped from the School of Engineering.
3.) A medical school student stabbed himself to death because of class stress and also girlfriend issues.
4.) A lesbian student jumped from the 9th floor of my dormitory because she saw her partner talking to another girl and was jealous. This was particularly disgusting as I saw the blood stains and the head separated from the body on this one as I was entering the dormitory.
5.) A male student jumped from the 10th floor of the opposite dormitory to the one above because his girl dumped him for one of his friends.

In each of those cases, I would prefer if such mentally unstable idiots keep jumping off buildings killing themselves and no one else than to be parading around with guns in my dormitory or school department.

Where do you go to school??? Sounds like Japan?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: eleison
Some people have an irrational hated of guns. I do not. If knifes are killing more pople (regardless if they are more common... regardless if they are cheaper... etc.), why wouldn't you want to focus on the knife instead of the gun? A person who is dead is still dead -- be it by knife... by gun.. by fighting... he is still dead..

If people truely care about the well being of other people getting murdered they should figure out why... saying the banning guns will solve the murder issue (especially in Britian) makes no sense when most of the murders are from knifes... unless of course, these people have an irrational fear/hatred of guns...

I think you're missing the point. The fact that knives are the largest killer in Britain is very very likely to be because guns are so hard to come by. This is more of a statemet to Britain's effective gun control then the dangerousness of knives.

^ that one

So now in Britain aren't they pushing for knife control? Talk about something easy to make if you really want one.

What are you going to do when it gets down to "sharp, pointy stick" control, cut down all the trees?

You think there should not be a line drawn somewhere? You agree with nuclear bomb control, or should everyone have nuclear bombs?

I believe in birth control too, but I'm not going to cut my dick off just to be safe.
 

ElMonoDelMar

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2004
1,163
338
136
Originally posted by: Lothar

That's pretty much nonsense.
If student was packing a gun I can guarantee you that there will be a shooting incident at least once every 2 week.
Sure 29 students won't die in one day like today, but the total deaths from guns will either still be the same (or may even end up higher) by the end of the year.
How many students on campus has died from guns at VA Tech this year?

Like was said earlier most college students aren't mature enough.
People will shoot while drunk, shoot the boyfriend their ex is going out with, and shoot teachers who gave them bad grades.

Hell, since I've been going to this school for 5 years now there has been numerous suicides...
1.) A student jumped from the School of Business.
2.) A student jumped from the School of Engineering.
3.) A medical school student stabbed himself to death because of class stress and also girlfriend issues.
4.) A lesbian student jumped from the 9th floor of my dormitory because she saw her partner talking to another girl and was jealous. This was particularly disgusting as I saw the blood stains and the head separated from the body on this one as I was entering the dormitory.
5.) A male student jumped from the 10th floor of the opposite dormitory to the one above because his girl dumped him for one of his friends.

In each of those cases, I would prefer if such mentally unstable idiots keep jumping off buildings killing themselves and no one else than to be parading around with guns in my dormitory or school department.

How can you guarantee that? Do you have any proof? There are some states that allow CCW on college campuses and they don't have 1 shooting per year let alone 1 every two weeks.

Let's stick to the facts and leave what you can "guarantee" by use of faulty logic at home.

 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Lothar
Allowing students to carry guns on campus is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

I don't see any good reason for carrying a gun around campus, maybe a can of good pepper spray?

But what about a place for gun lovers to store a gun so they can go shooting/hunting in their free time?

As long as it stays off campus, they can do what they want with it.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar
Originally posted by: Lothar

That's pretty much nonsense.
If student was packing a gun I can guarantee you that there will be a shooting incident at least once every 2 week.
Sure 29 students won't die in one day like today, but the total deaths from guns will either still be the same (or may even end up higher) by the end of the year.
How many students on campus has died from guns at VA Tech this year?

Like was said earlier most college students aren't mature enough.
People will shoot while drunk, shoot the boyfriend their ex is going out with, and shoot teachers who gave them bad grades.

Hell, since I've been going to this school for 5 years now there has been numerous suicides...
1.) A student jumped from the School of Business.
2.) A student jumped from the School of Engineering.
3.) A medical school student stabbed himself to death because of class stress and also girlfriend issues.
4.) A lesbian student jumped from the 9th floor of my dormitory because she saw her partner talking to another girl and was jealous. This was particularly disgusting as I saw the blood stains and the head separated from the body on this one as I was entering the dormitory.
5.) A male student jumped from the 10th floor of the opposite dormitory to the one above because his girl dumped him for one of his friends.

In each of those cases, I would prefer if such mentally unstable idiots keep jumping off buildings killing themselves and no one else than to be parading around with guns in my dormitory or school department.
There are some states that allow CCW on college campuses and they don't have 1 shooting per year let alone 1 every two weeks.

There are schools that don't allow guns on campuses and they don't have 1 shooting per year.

Your point?
 

ElMonoDelMar

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2004
1,163
338
136
Originally posted by: Lothar

There are schools that don't allow guns on campuses and they don't have 1 shooting per year.

Your point?

My point is that your prediction and guarantee are both worthless. Most college students won't go on killing sprees at the drop of a hat.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Lothar
Allowing students to carry guns on campus is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

I don't see any good reason for carrying a gun around campus, maybe a can of good pepper spray?

But what about a place for gun lovers to store a gun so they can go shooting/hunting in their free time?

As long as it stays off campus, they can do what they want with it.

How about the trunk of their car?
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: XxPrOdiGyxX
If there were other students who had concealed weapons and used them in this incident how would the students necessarily know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy if a bunch of them pull out guns? How will the cops necessarily know? I am not saying this is what would definitely happen, but I would imagine that in a situation like this it is somewhat difficult to think clearly and know exactly what is going on and what to do.

Can someone answer this man's question?
I think it's a fair question.

If I shoot attempt to shoot someone, and he kills me with his gun, how can someone tell who the assailant is?
Won't people automatically assume that the person dead on the floor is the victim and not the assailant?
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Lothar
Allowing students to carry guns on campus is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

I don't see any good reason for carrying a gun around campus, maybe a can of good pepper spray?

But what about a place for gun lovers to store a gun so they can go shooting/hunting in their free time?

As long as it stays off campus, they can do what they want with it.

How about the trunk of their car?

My previous post already answers this question.
That depends on where the car is.
 

ElMonoDelMar

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2004
1,163
338
136
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: XxPrOdiGyxX
If there were other students who had concealed weapons and used them in this incident how would the students necessarily know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy if a bunch of them pull out guns? How will the cops necessarily know? I am not saying this is what would definitely happen, but I would imagine that in a situation like this it is somewhat difficult to think clearly and know exactly what is going on and what to do.

Can someone answer this man's question?
I think it's a fair question.

If I shoot attempt to shoot someone, and he kills me with his gun, how can someone tell who the assailant is?
Won't people automatically assume that the person dead on the floor is the victim and not the assailant?

I'll bite on this one too:

It works like this. As a CCW holder, you shouldn't go out looking for trouble. If I were in the room where the shooting took place, I would draw my weapon and fire only if I had a clear shot. Then, I would immediately reholster my weapon and call the police to tell them what happened. If I were in an adjacent classroom, I would lock the door, put my hand on my gun and hide. I would only shoot in this situation if the shooter came to me.

Most CCW training classes suggest doing what I have described above. I think you'll be hard pressed to find a CCWer who would roam the halls, gun in hand, to try to take out the shooter.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar
Originally posted by: Lothar

There are schools that don't allow guns on campuses and they don't have 1 shooting per year.

Your point?

My point is that your prediction and guarantee are both worthless. Most college students won't go on killing sprees at the drop of a hat.

And you haven't proved that allowing guns will reduce deaths from shootings.
Most college students won't go on killing sprees regardless of whether gun laws are in place or not.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
29 confirmed.

Originally posted by: Lothar
Allowing students to carry guns on campus is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

That's too bad because maybe if one of those 29 was packing the number wouldn't be 29.

That's pretty much nonsense.
If student was packing a gun I can guarantee you that there will be a shooting incident at least once every 2 week.
Sure 29 students won't die in one day like today, but the total deaths from guns will either still be the same (or may even end up higher) by the end of the year.
How many students on campus has died from guns at VA Tech this year?

Like was said earlier most college students aren't mature enough.
People will shoot while drunk, shoot the boyfriend their ex is going out with, and shoot teachers who gave them bad grades.

Hell, since I've been going to this school for 5 years now there has been numerous suicides...
1.) A student jumped from the School of Business.
2.) A student jumped from the School of Engineering.
3.) A medical school student stabbed himself to death because of class stress and also girlfriend issues.
4.) A lesbian student jumped from the 9th floor of my dormitory because she saw her partner talking to another girl and was jealous. This was particularly disgusting as I saw the blood stains and the head separated from the body on this one as I was entering the dormitory.
5.) A male student jumped from the 10th floor of the opposite dormitory to the one above because his girl dumped him for one of his friends.

In each of those cases, I would prefer if such mentally unstable idiots keep jumping off buildings killing themselves and no one else than to be parading around with guns in my dormitory or school department.

You're ignorant as hell. In Washington State a couple hundred thousand people carry a concealed gun every day, including students like me. The total number of shootings by a CPL holder over the last 55 years is 1. Not 1 every two weeks, 1. Period. There are more violent crimes committed by law enforcement officers than by concealed weapon holders. Furthermore these laws are VERY new and in the past there weren't shootings even when people carried on campus. The ONLY thing allowing already licensed people to carry on campus would do is give them a fighting chance when these shootings occur.
 

BlancoNino

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2005
5,695
0
0
My grandpa used to bring his gun to school when he was in 6th grade. No school shootings then...in fact, it wasn't until all schools were "Gun Free" that we started to have school shootings.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar
Originally posted by: Lothar

That's pretty much nonsense.
If student was packing a gun I can guarantee you that there will be a shooting incident at least once every 2 week.
Sure 29 students won't die in one day like today, but the total deaths from guns will either still be the same (or may even end up higher) by the end of the year.
How many students on campus has died from guns at VA Tech this year?

Like was said earlier most college students aren't mature enough.
People will shoot while drunk, shoot the boyfriend their ex is going out with, and shoot teachers who gave them bad grades.

Hell, since I've been going to this school for 5 years now there has been numerous suicides...
1.) A student jumped from the School of Business.
2.) A student jumped from the School of Engineering.
3.) A medical school student stabbed himself to death because of class stress and also girlfriend issues.
4.) A lesbian student jumped from the 9th floor of my dormitory because she saw her partner talking to another girl and was jealous. This was particularly disgusting as I saw the blood stains and the head separated from the body on this one as I was entering the dormitory.
5.) A male student jumped from the 10th floor of the opposite dormitory to the one above because his girl dumped him for one of his friends.

In each of those cases, I would prefer if such mentally unstable idiots keep jumping off buildings killing themselves and no one else than to be parading around with guns in my dormitory or school department.
There are some states that allow CCW on college campuses and they don't have 1 shooting per year let alone 1 every two weeks.

There are schools that don't allow guns on campuses and they don't have 1 shooting per year.

Your point?

Oh no you don't you little bastard ignorant fvck! You said you'd GUARANTEE there would be shootings if it was allowed. Two people have now pointed out that it is allowed some places, or was at some times, and there weren't the shootings you claimed. Admit you're absolutely and totally wrong and go spew your 40iq parrot crap somewhere else.