What's the best martial art for REAL self-defense?

[lyssword]

Aikido? you gotta b fvckin kidding me. If it was so usefull as you guys think, they would dominate in UFC/pride, which is somewhat close to street fight. I haven't seen any aikido/karate ppl in ufc/pride, when you do, let me know.

A good martial art MUST include actual sparring/practicing against opponnents, thats why average boxer who trains for 6 months will kick a similarly trained karate guy's ass.Brazilian Jiu juitsu is a pretty well-rounded MA as well. Wrestlers are very athletic and have good endurance, but they have trained to score points, not to submit, tho they could easily adapt.

What about fighting vs many ppl? you think you have any chance against 3 people ur size, even if they are much weaker, then you are out of your fvkin mind, no martial art will defend against that unless you use a weapon like a gun. Also, most real wrestling/grappling is extremely quick, and ppl won't have the time to aim at your head, if they do it will be a very weak kick/punch.. Not to mention a jiu juitsu guy will just turn around catch that guy's foot and break it in half

In a brawl (fight for a PS3 ) grapplers have advantage, since once ppl come in on you, your punches/kicks will be useless, while a grappler would be strong enough to escape/take em down.

You think people will just wait for you to punch them? No, they will try to come close to you and take you down after a while.
I have seen a guy in a crowd and some ppl got angry that he cut in line and they rushed him and he just threw them around like ragdolls and he remained in line (that was in Ukraine btw )

 

[Journer]

that bas rutten guy is a bad ass...

personally, i feel that any form of self defense can only help. i've been taking a form of wado-ryu which is mainly focused on self defense...only attack after being attacked...some of the crap would never work in a street fight, but the muscle memory, speed, strength, accuracy, and everything else i've gained from it would definitly help in a street fight. my bro came to visit and i gave him a good whoopin...not that i dont always, but i tested some of the crap i learned and the blocks i used worked pretty well and almost always opened up an area for me to attack. prior to my training i would just try to grab whatever was being thrown at me then move in close to get him on the ground...now it takes a block or two and a swift movement of the foot/hand...
a gun/weapon would definitly be easier and more effective...but if you have either of those near a bar you will definitly get jail time...on top of that, if there is more than one turd you need to be able to handle the situation...not just shoot aimlessly. what if one comes from behind? if you take some kind of self defense your training should have made you more aware of your surroundings and in the event someone gets you, you should be able to break free and kick some ass. i cant wait until some punk tries to pull something on me... >)

 

[hiredgoons]

On the contrary, my friend (who used to study at the school I linked before he moved out of the country) not only survived being jumped by 3 guys of similar size but put his attackers in the hospital. Discount this as internet bravado if you want, but while 3 against 1 is long odds, it's not impossible. Like you say, it's all about training methods. However, there are schools that teach more "traditional" martial arts and include tons of sparring, and they produce kick-ass students.

edit: replying to lyssword

 

[lyssword]

Sparring karate vs non sparring kung fu (not all karate allows sparring) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4JiNrU7jEk kung fu may have trickier techniques but they don't practice on live opponents and because of that their timing sucks.

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: hiredgoons
On the contrary, my friend (who used to study at the school I linked before he moved out of the country) not only survived being jumped by 3 guys of similar size but put his attackers in the hospital. Discount this as internet bravado if you want, but while 3 against 1 is long odds, it's not impossible. Like you say, it's all about training methods. However, there are schools that teach more "traditional" martial arts and include tons of sparring, and they produce kick-ass students.

edit: replying to lyssword

Sure if you are a bigger guy, with good training you have some chance vs 3 determined/motivated guys. If you are equal strength/weight u will have almost no chance to take em out. Its better than nothing, you will be able to defend a few punches and run away

 

[opticalmace]

i've heard judo is pretty effective once you get half-good at it...

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: opticalmace
i've heard judo is pretty effective once you get half-good at it...

its true, specially if you are fighting on a hard ground and judo guy throws him on the ground, ouch :Q

Also, good training methods: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid...8450760833041053&q=matt+thornton&hl=en

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: hiredgoons
On the contrary, my friend (who used to study at the school I linked before he moved out of the country) not only survived being jumped by 3 guys of similar size but put his attackers in the hospital. Discount this as internet bravado if you want, but while 3 against 1 is long odds, it's not impossible. Like you say, it's all about training methods. However, there are schools that teach more "traditional" martial arts and include tons of sparring, and they produce kick-ass students.

edit: replying to lyssword

Sure if you are a bigger guy, with good training you have some chance vs 3 determined/motivated guys. If you are equal strength/weight u will have almost no chance to take em out. Its better than nothing, you will be able to defend a few punches and run away

You're full of crap. A well trained fighter in BJJ or Muy Thai or one of the other 'effective' martial arts can take on 3 average people of same size. I can tell you from personaly experience that having wrestled in high school and having mild training in BJJ that it is very effective. I can easily take on 2 people my age with no training. 3, maybe? Never tried to be honest, but 2 I'm sure I can handle. And I don't consider myself to be that great at martial arts, I'd say a beginner at BJJ with a good wrestling/grappling background.

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: hiredgoons
On the contrary, my friend (who used to study at the school I linked before he moved out of the country) not only survived being jumped by 3 guys of similar size but put his attackers in the hospital. Discount this as internet bravado if you want, but while 3 against 1 is long odds, it's not impossible. Like you say, it's all about training methods. However, there are schools that teach more "traditional" martial arts and include tons of sparring, and they produce kick-ass students.

edit: replying to lyssword

Sure if you are a bigger guy, with good training you have some chance vs 3 determined/motivated guys. If you are equal strength/weight u will have almost no chance to take em out. Its better than nothing, you will be able to defend a few punches and run away

You're full of crap. A well trained fighter in BJJ or Muy Thai or one of the other 'effective' martial arts can take on 3 average people of same size. I can tell you from personaly experience that having wrestled in high school and having mild training in BJJ that it is very effective. I can easily take on 2 people my age with no training. 3, maybe? Never tried to be honest, but 2 I'm sure I can handle. And I don't consider myself to be that great at martial arts, I'd say a beginner at BJJ with a good wrestling/grappling background.

I didn't say average, I said same strength/weight, and also said angry/motivated ppl. (say you stole $1000 from each of them and you will only give it to them after they beat you up. The only reason you would be able to beat 2 people, is because one of them (or both) will chicken out. Honestly, put 3 ppl of same size as 1 skilled bjj/thai guy in a cage match I'd put my money on 3 ppl. Sorry for being so obvious, but maybe your ego needs a check. It's not confidence you have, maybe delusion is the right word.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: hiredgoons
On the contrary, my friend (who used to study at the school I linked before he moved out of the country) not only survived being jumped by 3 guys of similar size but put his attackers in the hospital. Discount this as internet bravado if you want, but while 3 against 1 is long odds, it's not impossible. Like you say, it's all about training methods. However, there are schools that teach more "traditional" martial arts and include tons of sparring, and they produce kick-ass students.

edit: replying to lyssword

Sure if you are a bigger guy, with good training you have some chance vs 3 determined/motivated guys. If you are equal strength/weight u will have almost no chance to take em out. Its better than nothing, you will be able to defend a few punches and run away

You're full of crap. A well trained fighter in BJJ or Muy Thai or one of the other 'effective' martial arts can take on 3 average people of same size. I can tell you from personaly experience that having wrestled in high school and having mild training in BJJ that it is very effective. I can easily take on 2 people my age with no training. 3, maybe? Never tried to be honest, but 2 I'm sure I can handle. And I don't consider myself to be that great at martial arts, I'd say a beginner at BJJ with a good wrestling/grappling background.

I didn't say average, I said same strength/weight, and also said angry/motivated ppl. (say you stole $1000 from each of them and you will only give it to them after they beat you up. The only reason you would be able to beat 2 people, is because one of them (or both) will chicken out. Honestly, put 3 ppl of same size as 1 skilled bjj/thai guy in a cage match I'd put my money on 3 ppl. Sorry for being so obvious, but maybe your ego needs a check.

I think you need some rest, as you are confusing yourself. Someone can be an average fighter and be ANY strength or weight. They don't have to be the same strength/weight as me.

Thats why I said, and I quote "...can take on 3 average people of same size".

Would you like to try that rebuttle again?

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: hiredgoons
On the contrary, my friend (who used to study at the school I linked before he moved out of the country) not only survived being jumped by 3 guys of similar size but put his attackers in the hospital. Discount this as internet bravado if you want, but while 3 against 1 is long odds, it's not impossible. Like you say, it's all about training methods. However, there are schools that teach more "traditional" martial arts and include tons of sparring, and they produce kick-ass students.

edit: replying to lyssword

Sure if you are a bigger guy, with good training you have some chance vs 3 determined/motivated guys. If you are equal strength/weight u will have almost no chance to take em out. Its better than nothing, you will be able to defend a few punches and run away

You're full of crap. A well trained fighter in BJJ or Muy Thai or one of the other 'effective' martial arts can take on 3 average people of same size. I can tell you from personaly experience that having wrestled in high school and having mild training in BJJ that it is very effective. I can easily take on 2 people my age with no training. 3, maybe? Never tried to be honest, but 2 I'm sure I can handle. And I don't consider myself to be that great at martial arts, I'd say a beginner at BJJ with a good wrestling/grappling background.

I didn't say average, I said same strength/weight, and also said angry/motivated ppl. (say you stole $1000 from each of them and you will only give it to them after they beat you up. The only reason you would be able to beat 2 people, is because one of them (or both) will chicken out. Honestly, put 3 ppl of same size as 1 skilled bjj/thai guy in a cage match I'd put my money on 3 ppl. Sorry for being so obvious, but maybe your ego needs a check.

I think you need some rest, as you are confusing yourself. Someone can be an average fighter and be ANY strength or weight. They don't have to be the same strength/weight as me.

Thats why I said, and I quote "...can take on 3 average people of same size".

Would you like to try that rebuttle again?

Ok fine, same size. I still stick with my previous statement.

 

[Cuda1447]

Also, in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 style fight I feel that speed is very important.

As I've said I feel confident I could take 2 guys of average person skill and my size without a problem. And I don't feel that Im extremely proficient at BJJ, but I do have a strong wrestling background.

The reason I can, and have, taken on 2 people at one time and been
successful is speed. If I'm able to attack one guy, throw him to the ground and move on to the next guy very quickly I can be successful. Granted, the first guy is going to get up and come back, but by the time he does the second guy will have been thrown to the ground or into a table or something else. There are plenty of ways to hurt someone in a quick period of time.

 

[Cuda1447]

Ok fine, same size. I still stick with my previous statement.

How do you figure? You really think two people who know very little of any sort of fighting style can effectively take on one person who is very skilled in BJJ or grappling/wrestling/striking etc...?

What info do you have to back this up? Are you just mindlessly guessing, have you experience? Why do you feel this way?

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Also, in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 style fight I feel that speed is very important.

As I've said I feel confident I could take 2 guys of average person skill and my size without a problem. And I don't feel that Im extremely proficient at BJJ, but I do have a strong wrestling background.

The reason I can, and have, taken on 2 people at one time and been
successful is speed. If I'm able to attack one guy, throw him to the ground and move on to the next guy very quickly I can be successful. Granted, the first guy is going to get up and come back, but by the time he does the second guy will have been thrown to the ground or into a table or something else. There are plenty of ways to hurt someone in a quick period of time.

hurt != win. Honestly, do you think those 2 guys you fought quit because of their injuries or because they just gave up?

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Also, in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 style fight I feel that speed is very important.

As I've said I feel confident I could take 2 guys of average person skill and my size without a problem. And I don't feel that Im extremely proficient at BJJ, but I do have a strong wrestling background.

The reason I can, and have, taken on 2 people at one time and been
successful is speed. If I'm able to attack one guy, throw him to the ground and move on to the next guy very quickly I can be successful. Granted, the first guy is going to get up and come back, but by the time he does the second guy will have been thrown to the ground or into a table or something else. There are plenty of ways to hurt someone in a quick period of time.

hurt != win. Honestly, do you think those 2 guys you fought quit because of their injuries or because they just gave up?

You don't think someone will quit if you break their arm? Give them a concussion? Dislocate their shoulder? Snap their kneecap?

Who the fvck am I fighting? Robocop?

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Ok fine, same size. I still stick with my previous statement.

How do you figure? You really think two people who know very little of any sort of fighting style can effectively take on one person who is very skilled in BJJ or grappling/wrestling/striking etc...?

What info do you have to back this up? Are you just mindlessly guessing, have you experience? Why do you feel this way?

Originally I said 3 people. And as I previously said, it depends how mentally tough they are. Even if they have no skill but are very tough and won't give up, you are in a lot of trouble.

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Also, in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 style fight I feel that speed is very important.

As I've said I feel confident I could take 2 guys of average person skill and my size without a problem. And I don't feel that Im extremely proficient at BJJ, but I do have a strong wrestling background.

The reason I can, and have, taken on 2 people at one time and been
successful is speed. If I'm able to attack one guy, throw him to the ground and move on to the next guy very quickly I can be successful. Granted, the first guy is going to get up and come back, but by the time he does the second guy will have been thrown to the ground or into a table or something else. There are plenty of ways to hurt someone in a quick period of time.

hurt != win. Honestly, do you think those 2 guys you fought quit because of their injuries or because they just gave up?

You don't think someone will quit if you break their arm? Give them a concussion? Dislocate their shoulder? Snap their kneecap?

Who the fvck am I fighting? Robocop?

Simple physics. First, you'll get gassed quick vs 3 people, having to move around 3 bodies (that is if you are able to do that). There is a guy in B Jiu juitsu school and he won 2/3 tournament matches, even tho he has almost no skill and more of a street fighter, because he would never give up.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Also, in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 style fight I feel that speed is very important.

As I've said I feel confident I could take 2 guys of average person skill and my size without a problem. And I don't feel that Im extremely proficient at BJJ, but I do have a strong wrestling background.

The reason I can, and have, taken on 2 people at one time and been
successful is speed. If I'm able to attack one guy, throw him to the ground and move on to the next guy very quickly I can be successful. Granted, the first guy is going to get up and come back, but by the time he does the second guy will have been thrown to the ground or into a table or something else. There are plenty of ways to hurt someone in a quick period of time.

Also, the chance of getting jumped by 3 guys can be ameliorated with street smarts. Just travel in groups if possible, don't be tempted by shady "cut-through" allys, and generally watch your back, you'll most likely be fine. If it comes down to it though, check out this sh!t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhKjpdWyYMc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Also, in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 style fight I feel that speed is very important.

As I've said I feel confident I could take 2 guys of average person skill and my size without a problem. And I don't feel that Im extremely proficient at BJJ, but I do have a strong wrestling background.

The reason I can, and have, taken on 2 people at one time and been
successful is speed. If I'm able to attack one guy, throw him to the ground and move on to the next guy very quickly I can be successful. Granted, the first guy is going to get up and come back, but by the time he does the second guy will have been thrown to the ground or into a table or something else. There are plenty of ways to hurt someone in a quick period of time.

hurt != win. Honestly, do you think those 2 guys you fought quit because of their injuries or because they just gave up?

You don't think someone will quit if you break their arm? Give them a concussion? Dislocate their shoulder? Snap their kneecap?

Who the fvck am I fighting? Robocop?

Simple physics. First, you'll get gassed quick vs 3 people, having to move around 3 bodies (that is if you are able to do that). There is a guy in B Jiu juitsu school and he won 2/3 tournament matches, even tho he has almost no skill and more of a street fighter, because he would never give up.

He is either A. A great athlete. B. better at BJJ than he thinks or C. fighting some bad BJJists.

Also, I'll get gassed quickly? You've done trained in any real martial arts have you? I can tell you from personal experience that wrestling for 3 minutes at a time at full speed is as tiring as running a mile, with ease. You gain TONS of stamina from any real training. I'll be able to handle a few minutes with some unskilled opponents, no problem.

Even mentioning that in your argument shows how little knowledge you really have on the subject. You should just stop while you're way behind.

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Also, in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 style fight I feel that speed is very important.

As I've said I feel confident I could take 2 guys of average person skill and my size without a problem. And I don't feel that Im extremely proficient at BJJ, but I do have a strong wrestling background.

The reason I can, and have, taken on 2 people at one time and been
successful is speed. If I'm able to attack one guy, throw him to the ground and move on to the next guy very quickly I can be successful. Granted, the first guy is going to get up and come back, but by the time he does the second guy will have been thrown to the ground or into a table or something else. There are plenty of ways to hurt someone in a quick period of time.

Also, the chance of getting jumped by 3 guys can be ameliorated with street smarts. Just travel in groups if possible, don't be tempted by shady "cut-through" allys, and generally watch your back, you'll most likely be fine. If it comes down to it though, check out this sh!t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhKjpdWyYMc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw

lol they are fighting him one at a time, doesn't look like they are trying. Thats one of scenarios this guy is talking about http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4838722756738846126&q=matt+thornton (middle or at the end of it he talks about this type of scenario. *hint, they are actors *

this looks ridiculous

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Also, in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 style fight I feel that speed is very important.

As I've said I feel confident I could take 2 guys of average person skill and my size without a problem. And I don't feel that Im extremely proficient at BJJ, but I do have a strong wrestling background.

The reason I can, and have, taken on 2 people at one time and been
successful is speed. If I'm able to attack one guy, throw him to the ground and move on to the next guy very quickly I can be successful. Granted, the first guy is going to get up and come back, but by the time he does the second guy will have been thrown to the ground or into a table or something else. There are plenty of ways to hurt someone in a quick period of time.

Also, the chance of getting jumped by 3 guys can be ameliorated with street smarts. Just travel in groups if possible, don't be tempted by shady "cut-through" allys, and generally watch your back, you'll most likely be fine. If it comes down to it though, check out this sh!t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhKjpdWyYMc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw

lol they are fighting him one at a time, doesn't look like they are trying. Thats one of scenarios this guy is talking about http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4838722756738846126&q=matt+thornton (thers another one but its a longer vid like in the middle or at the end of it he talks about this type of scenario. *hint, they are actors * lol that looks ridiculous

Right, its just an act. However, keep in mind if they one person was really fighting back he would seriously hurt his opponents each time, they wouldn't just roll right back up either.

 

[hiredgoons]

Originally posted by: irishScott
If it comes down to it though, check out this sh!t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhKjpdWyYMc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw

Sh!t being the operative word :roll:

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Also, in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 style fight I feel that speed is very important.

As I've said I feel confident I could take 2 guys of average person skill and my size without a problem. And I don't feel that Im extremely proficient at BJJ, but I do have a strong wrestling background.

The reason I can, and have, taken on 2 people at one time and been
successful is speed. If I'm able to attack one guy, throw him to the ground and move on to the next guy very quickly I can be successful. Granted, the first guy is going to get up and come back, but by the time he does the second guy will have been thrown to the ground or into a table or something else. There are plenty of ways to hurt someone in a quick period of time.

Also, the chance of getting jumped by 3 guys can be ameliorated with street smarts. Just travel in groups if possible, don't be tempted by shady "cut-through" allys, and generally watch your back, you'll most likely be fine. If it comes down to it though, check out this sh!t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhKjpdWyYMc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw

lol they are fighting him one at a time, doesn't look like they are trying. Thats one of scenarios this guy is talking about http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4838722756738846126&q=matt+thornton (thers another one but its a longer vid like in the middle or at the end of it he talks about this type of scenario. *hint, they are actors * lol that looks ridiculous

Right, its just an act. However, keep in mind if they one person was really fighting back he would seriously hurt his opponents each time, they wouldn't just roll right back up either.

Ok, Mr. Robocop Opponents would hurt him too, every time. Like Bruce Lee said, you can break a board, but the board doesn't punch you back

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Also, in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 style fight I feel that speed is very important.

As I've said I feel confident I could take 2 guys of average person skill and my size without a problem. And I don't feel that Im extremely proficient at BJJ, but I do have a strong wrestling background.

The reason I can, and have, taken on 2 people at one time and been
successful is speed. If I'm able to attack one guy, throw him to the ground and move on to the next guy very quickly I can be successful. Granted, the first guy is going to get up and come back, but by the time he does the second guy will have been thrown to the ground or into a table or something else. There are plenty of ways to hurt someone in a quick period of time.

Also, the chance of getting jumped by 3 guys can be ameliorated with street smarts. Just travel in groups if possible, don't be tempted by shady "cut-through" allys, and generally watch your back, you'll most likely be fine. If it comes down to it though, check out this sh!t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhKjpdWyYMc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOnMgxeSBw

lol they are fighting him one at a time, doesn't look like they are trying. Thats one of scenarios this guy is talking about http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4838722756738846126&q=matt+thornton (thers another one but its a longer vid like in the middle or at the end of it he talks about this type of scenario. *hint, they are actors * lol that looks ridiculous

Right, its just an act. However, keep in mind if they one person was really fighting back he would seriously hurt his opponents each time, they wouldn't just roll right back up either.

Ok, Mr. Robocop Opponents would hurt him too, every time. Like Bruce Lee said, you can break a board, but the board doesn't punch you back

I guess we can agree to disagree, but I have experience on the subject. Judging from your comments, I would assume you have none.

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: chowmein
Aikido. steven seagal uses it, it looks BS but its VERY VERY effective if used for self-defense purposes. joint manipulation, balance attacks, etc. someone mentioned ninjutsu, that is seriously hardcore and takes many years to master.

The aikido video... the karate guy had about a few years of training (green belt). The black pants the lady wore are the mark of the black belts (one can wear brown pants when he is a step from black belt - at 1kyu I think).
The purpose of aikido is, when a conflict happens, you are somewhere else (even if only half a centimeter away)