What's the BEST LCD Monitor I can get for ~$650?

[Zebo]

NEC is crazy!! Was'nt this monitor supposed to be about $630? Meaning street prices ~$550?

 

[darXoul]

WMGX2 is the "US version" with detachable speaker bar... Expensive. In Poland, the WGX2 is really affordable, around the price of Samsung 204t and not much more expensive than Samsung 204b.

 

[darXoul]

http://www.prad.de/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=4603

Here is a good pic for those who want to see the glossy coating of the NEC monitor.

... and a user review in German:

http://www.prad.de/board/thread.php?threadid=24308

 

[tedward]

Originally posted by: n7
http://www.necdisplay.com/products/Prod...lassificationFamily=2&Classification=1

I saw this one set up @ a Microcenter store in Chicago. It was incredible! Never saw anything with that quality of a picture. I've always been an NEC display fan, & currently have a Multisync LCD1565. I've had it now for 2 years & love it, though I don't game on it. (Not a gamer).

Only thing stopping me from getting a GX series is the price & it's not available in a widescreen format, without adding lame built-in multimedia speakers.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: darXoul
WMGX2 is the "US version" with detachable speaker bar... Expensive. In Poland, the WGX2 is really affordable, around the price of Samsung 204t and not much more expensive than Samsung 204b.

Well for that US price you can get Dell2405 or better yet faster better picture IPS inside HP L2335!!! NEC must not want to sell to US market, $800+ for a 20" widescreen is a joke.

 

[deadken]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Ken, it sounds like VSync is definitely your problem then. From you guys' reviews it sounds like the 204B will be a Christmas present for me (lonnnnnng way away).

Sorry I took so long to post back here, but I really wanted to have a good idea of how I liked this monitor before I said anymore.

I've been using this monitor (Samsung 204B, for those who didn't read through the whole thread) for over 2 weeks including this past week that I have been on vacation, (so I really have been using it alot), and I LOVE it! I couldn't believe that I spent so much on a Monitor, but then I remembered being happy that I found a Sony 17" Trinitron on 'clearance' for $300 a few years back (alright, mabye 6-7). I was happy because they were selling out fast. That was a good price at the time and I still have that monitor. So, when I consider that this will be about $500 ($542 (after S+H) - $30 MIR = 512) I really am impressed on how much 'value' this represents.

1) The screensize is GREAT! 20.1 inches is just that, over 20 inches of real estate! As for footprint, of course this takes up a lot less deskspace then my CRT. I honestly didn't think that going from a 18" viewable to a 20" viewable had made a big difference at first, but then I realized that my monitor was pushed way back, once I set my keyboard to where I was comfortable (something I couldn't really do with my CRT), I then pulled the LCD Base to 1/4" behind it. WOW! What a difference!

2) Yes, I do have a dead or stuck (black) pixel. But, as I said before, I had one much more on center before (ended up just being stuck for about the first week), and this one is way up in the corner, so it isn't a bother at all. Some people may be more picky, but rarely do I ever even notice it (please realize that using a progam to find dead/stuck pixels may introduce you to something that never bothered you before, but now you can't stop focusing on it).

3) I can't see any backlight bleeding through. Since I like to turn the lights off when I game, backlight bleeding or uneven lighting would bother me. This monitor is perfect for me.

4) The base. I have read the complaint of it being 'cheap feeling' and I think that when you pick up the monitor, and tap it, it does have a hollow sound to the base. But, in use I find nothing wrong with it. I have tweaked my monitors adjustments (took me about a week to find out where I really am happy with it), and I can't imagine not having the ability to get it set just right. When I see a monitor without a height adjustment, I can't figure out how people live without it.

5) I understand that the color representation may not be perfect (6-bit vs. 8-bit). I honestly couldn't figure out what a big deal the difference between over 16milliion and 16.7 million colors would be. The link someone put in this thread shows it means and now I can understand. Of course I have HUGE issues with why they didn't put what it 'SHOULD' look like (on a CRT monitor), so I can understand how it makes a difference on the different monitors in my house. Anyway, I find the color representation on this monitor to be just fine. If I have given up a few colors for speed, I am ok with that. A slower more color rich monitor wouldn't cut it for me.

6) As for viewing angles, I am having a hard time describing that. The only way I describe it is this: I can lift my eyes slightly above the top bezel and everything is still perfect. Only when I get about 2 inches above the bezel do I start noticing any display 'unevenness' (that's the best way I can describe it). At that poing it basically is "not consistent or uniform" in its colors, or maybe its lighting. It just seems that parts of the screen are getting darker, generally horizontal strips about 1-2" tall. It has never bothered me while using my PC, but I have noticed it while getting up from my PC to grab a glass of water. I should go back and re-edit #4 to add how I again today 'tweaked' my height adjustments to where I got it where I think it is perfect. Just now, while trying to see what the viewing angles are, I realized that raising my monitor so that my eyes are just about looking straight at about 1" above the centerpoint of the screen would give me a larger amount of movement before any distortion occurs. Anyway, I have no idea how to describe the side viewing angles, other then to say that someone can sit next to me and still see the screen without any distortions. I can only imagine this would be a problem if I was gonna watch a DVD while lying in bed and not sitting in front of my monitor.

Again, this have really been my first experience using a LCD on my computer (my daughter has a 17" LCD (Analog input), but that isn't a good reference). What I can say is that I am very happy with it. I really can say that I don't miss my CRT. The things that I gave up going from a CRT to an LCD are more then compensated by how nice this monitor is. What I am trying to say is that for me, the Pro's outwiegh the Con's.

I should state that I am happy that I didn't get a 19" LCD. I certainly am not ready for a Wide Screen monitor myself, but I do realize that things are moving that way. IMO, going to a 'more square' 5:4, is the opposite direction things are heading. I also dislike the 19" LCD's because of the pixel spacing required to get 1280x1024 pixel stretched out to cover an additional 2" of viewing space (the 19" LCD's have the same resolution as the 17" LCD's). The same case could be made for the 21" LCD's having the same 1600x1200 resolution as the 20" LCD's. But, I would think stretching almost 2 Million pixels over one more inch, would be less noticable then stretching 1.3 Million pixels over 2 more inches. I understand that for someone who just wants a larger size, a 19" would be fine. I just wouldn't expect it to be more detailed.


EDIT: Added #6, viewing angle information.

 

[darXoul]

Thanks for the review.

The 204B looks like one of the best monitors for heavy gaming right now. Due to huge pixels and the 5:4 aspect ratio, I don't really like 19 inchers. As for the larger displays, the 204B is pretty much the top runner, even though it's TN. 20/21" widescreens simply don't cut it for me in terms of size and resolution. 23/24" widescreens are either slowish or *VA displays with reported input lag...

The new LG L2000C looks great, however. IPS-typical advantages (colors, viewing angles) combined with good blacks (high contrast for S-IPS) and probably superb speed (8 ms g2g; the NEC LCD20WGX2 with 6 ms g2g S-IPS was labeled as fast as ViewSonic VX922 with 2 ms g2g TN panel in games).

 

[Zebo]

Thanks for the follow up Ken. Now My understanding is 6 bit is really like ~256,000 colors - and 8 bit is 16 million - correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway i could'nt disagree more about the accurate colors. I played a game I'm very familiar with, FC, tried all four presets on color - adjusting contrast/gamma/brightness - well almost everything I know how to do and colors looked washed out. Like all not there. Granted coming from an old fadded out CRT you would'nt notice so much but my regular monitor is a dell 2005 which is 8 bit and IPS.


I do agree with DAR that in it's price range it's one of the best - But I'd at least try a new fast. as of yet unreviewed S-IPS like LG -L2000C mentioned.

 

[darXoul]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Thanks for the follow up Ken. Now My understanding is 6 bit is really like ~256,000 colors - and 8 bit is 16 million - correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, 6 bit nowadays means 6 bit (262k) + dithering up to 16.2M. Strangely enough, Samsung lists the 204B as a display with 16.7M colors. This is surprising since 16.7M usually means "full 8 bit".

 

[Zebo]

Well think we've already establised samsung is "generous" with thier numbers and I have "sensitive" needs - I can tell them trying to blend 256K to made 16 million a mile a way. I guess the main problem is cloning with a 8 bit panel right next to the 204B while I was testing.. Night and day difference IMO.

 

[darXoul]

http://www.dinside.no/php/art.php?id=291139

Another review of the NEC LCD20WGX2, based on 6 ms g2g S-IPS panel. Like on hardware.fr, the Norwegians confirm its great response time, they say:

"Although we have tested monitors with even better listed response times, this one is in practice just as fast."

Wow. I'm beginning to like this new generation of IPS.

 

[Zebo]

the NEC will be here on Monday according to UPS. Be prepared for another rant siince there is so many trade offs in LCD tech. I've already found a flaw and it's not even here yet- like it's wide-body brick like structure from the side And what's up with those - like after thought USB ports sticking out on the side?

 

[darXoul]

Yea, you'll also be complaining about crappy speed compared to CRT, the glossy coating, no height adjustment, small size, IPS-typical shimmering, untrue blacks, etc.

 

[deadken]

I edited my post to add #6 which includes some viewing angle information. If I forgot anything else, please let me know.

I would love to hear about how well that NEC stacks up against this 204B in your opinion Zebo. I can't imagine me sending this back now, but if that is much better and a similar price, I think I still have about 11 days to return this one. (I haven't mailed in the Rebate yet until I am sure I am keeping it).

So, please post back (or at least PM me) if you think I really should check that one out before my 30 days is up (which, I think, is when I have to have the rebate postmarked :|).

 

[Zebo]

Got NEC 20WMGX2 today :Q:::SPEECHLESS::::Q will write review later K I'm having too much fun.

 

[misanthropy]

It depends on what resolution you game. Unfortunately LCDs don't down scale well from their native resolutions, and most expensive, large LCDs I've seen have very high native resolutions, which require extremely powerful hardware to game at effectively. If you game at 720P-like quality, I suggest getting a 19" LCD for around $300 that has a similar native resolution as 720 with a low response time and spending the rest on a AMD64 CPU, not for the 64-bits mind you, which will have absolutely no affect on gaming.

 

[Zebo]

The 20WMGX² is basically perfect image wise. Deep dark blacks. Very bright too. Has great colors natually being true 8 bit. It's viewing angles are supeior to even my Dell 2005FPW, probably due to the opticlear coating.. Has the best reponse I've ever seen in an LCD at least equal to overdriven TN's found inside 922/924's. In sum I think anyone looking for an LCD ATM would be making a huge mistake not looking into this next generation LG-Philips S-IPS's found inside the NEC 20WGX² or LG L2000C and perhaps others... Just awesome!

Ths NEC 20WMGX² also has some very nice add ons. Has a coax cable in, built in tuner, picture in picture and sweet remote control to function as a television if you want. Has S-Vid and componet video for Xbox, camcorder etc. Even has a decent set of speakers in its stock removable sound bar! Great for office and minimal audio applications.

The 20WMGX² had it's problems - primarly it has no hight adjustment which is just rediculous in this day and age. But lukily with it's awesome S-IPS/opticlear veiw angles it's not needed for image to render crystal clear. But I just prefer to look at things straight on. All LCD's even fast ones like this have motion blur. Subtle but it's still there - I'll get over it - this is my gaming montior now beat Dell 2005FPW all to hell in every facet of performance. Third it's "opticlear" technology.. it's a give and take - providing unmacthed contrast but has a mirror effect with any light source in front of monitor. You really need to consider your office space if thinking about this monitor - no windows or lamps in front of monitor or you will see them which can be very distracting. It's not really a problem in my office as lamps are behind monitor.

Anyway I'm suprisingly very pleased. I thought ths would be another RMA..I thought I was crazy for spending $700 in a 20" when there are $350-$500 twentys out there. All my fears were are laid to rest now. Ths monitor is worth every penny.

 

[Mike89]

That NEC 20WMGX2 is not an 8 bit panel, it's 6 bit, same as the 70GX2 and 90GX2.

I have the 70GX2. I got all shook up at first when I learned about the 6bit/8bit panel stuff. After I quit tripping about it and gave it a chance with my eyes, I absolutely love it. Colors are so much richer than my CRT, it's unbelievable.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Mike89
That NEC 20WMGX2 is not an 8 bit panel, it's 6 bit, same as the 70GX2 and 90GX2.

I have the 70GX2. I got all shook up at first when I learned about the 6bit/8bit panel stuff. After I quit tripping about it and gave it a chance with my eyes, I absolutely love it. Colors are so much richer than my CRT, it's unbelievable.

Wrong only the 17 and 19's are 6 bit and TN/ - go do some HW.

 

[Mike89]

Better do your own homework. It's 6 bit.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Anyway I'm suprisingly very pleased. I thought ths would be another RMA..I thought I was crazy for spending $700 in a 20" when there are $350-$500 twentys out there. All my fears were are laid to rest now. Ths monitor is worth every penny.

Nice. Don't see a review from Zebo like that very often. Glad you like it, I'm gonna try and get myself one, whenever time allows. You gonna keep it?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mike89
Better do your own homework. It's 6 bit.

Incorrect. The 70 and 90GX are TN panels, however the 20WMGX uses an IPS type panel. Generally that means it's 8-bit. I haven't yet seen an IPS that isn't 8-bit (although there was one S-PVA that wasn't). I guess you can still say all IPS/VA types are still 8-bit (crystals in said panels can rotate that precise), but some aren't always driven by 8-bit electronics. Since the NEC 20" wide is getting rave reviews all over the place it's very likely driven by 8-bit. Anyhow all of its colors as tested by Les Numeriques are all within 1 pixel worth of accuracy, which is damn good.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Zebo
Anyway I'm suprisingly very pleased. I thought ths would be another RMA..I thought I was crazy for spending $700 in a 20" when there are $350-$500 twentys out there. All my fears were are laid to rest now. Ths monitor is worth every penny.

Nice. Don't see a review from Zebo like that very often. Glad you like it, I'm gonna try and get myself one, whenever time allows. You gonna keep it?

Absoluty!! It's wonderful need to get a vesa wallmount arm though - too heavy for one I got or it's springs are shot.

 

[Mike89]

The NEC 20WMGX2 is listed as "more than 16 million" colors which usually means 6 bit. Why wouldn't NEC list it as 16.7 million? I read an in depth review somewhere (trying to remember where the hell I read it) where it states it's 6 bit. I find it very interesting how hard it is to find out something simple like this for LCD monitors. You would think manufacturers would list something like that but they don't. Makes one wonder why that is. I have a feeling there are a lot more 6 bit panel LCDs that a lot of people think.

BTW, the 20WMGX2 uses a TFT panel.

 

[Zebo]

So in other words you're "guessing"/

Talk less read more pp 28
http://www.necdisplay.com/corpus/6/6/20WMGX2.pdf