What's the BEST LCD Monitor I can get for ~$650?

[astromoose]

where did you get the NEC from zebo? Also i see that there is a 20WMGX2-BK which is apprently supposed to be black, although the picture on NEC's website shows a silver monitor with just a black speaker bezel, do you know if the 20WMGX2-BK is really all black?

 

[Mike89]

Why are you being the wise guy? No need. I was stating the info I had on the subject. I was not guessing, it was from info I've read (just like where your info comes from). In that PDF it did state 16.7 million. That's the first place I've seen that. I've seen the figure "more than 16 million" a lot more times.

Also, it's a TFT panel. Usually means 6 bit. In fact I've also read that ALL TFT panel LCDs are 6 bit.

There is a hell of a lot of info out there that is contradictory. I say you are just as much guessing (if you still want to call it that) on what this monitor is than I am. I don't want to get into a pissing match here. If my info is faulty then so be it. Your info has not as yet convinced me just what this monitor is.

 

[Mike89]

Ok, I'm convinced now the 20WMGX2 has an 8 bit panel. Apparently I was reading the wrong bits of info.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mike89
Also, it's a TFT panel. Usually means 6 bit. In fact I've also read that ALL TFT panel LCDs are 6 bit.

All active matrix LCDs (at least on the consumer market) are thin film transistor (TFT) panels. Some use twisted nematic technology, which only allows twisting of subpixel cells to up to 64 states. There's three subpixels: red, green, and blue. Thus the total possible number of states of all combined is 64^3, 262,144. They have implemented dithering to achieve up to 16,194,277 (253^3), 16.2M colors. I think it's 3 less than 256 because the OFF states can't be used for dithering per each color component.

Other LCDs use MVA, PVA, and IPS-type TFTs which can achieve 16.7M colors (256^3), 16,777,216. However the ICs driving said TFTs may not take advantage of all their capabilities. Because of the 20WMGX2's stunning color reproduction, it is said to be driven by 8-bit-capable ICs as well. And in any case, it doesn't matter. It still displays colors very well.

 

[Zebo]

Also, it's a TFT panel. Usually means 6 bit. In fact I've also read that ALL TFT panel LCDs are 6 bit.
-------------------

TFT is all LCDs used in modern displays which TN, IPS, S-IPS, MVA and PVA are subsets/types of. All S-IPS like this NEC are 8-bit, that's the reason IPS was created in the first place to address the others poor color quality.

Yea you need more research. If seem curt it's becuase I have no time for noob that calls me wrong and does'nt even have a basic understand of the tech. This is my last post to you.

 

[astromoose]

does the 20WMGX2 support HDCP?

 

[xtknight]

Zebo: how is the contrast? For example, put a checkerboard of white and black squares up on the whole screen to give the advanced DVM mode a workout and see if it can maintain it's jet black while not throttling the backlight enough to destroy its white. Since I'm so l33t, here's a program I made to do a 5x5 checkerboard in 1680x1050 widescreen. Press <Escape> to end. http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/wscontrast.exe

Oh, and how about backlight bleeding on the edges? Is the screen uniformly lit? Press <Enter> in my program to toggle a checkerboard and a complete black screen.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: astromoose
does the 20WMGX2 support HDCP?

Yes, the US version, the 20WMGX2, does support HDCP via the DVI-D connector.

 

[Zebo]

astromoose - I have no idea.. try searching though the PDF I linked above..

xtknight- nice proggy. How's perfect sound? Blacks are jet black white is white and no back light bleading..

I forgot to mention no dead pixels, no stuck pixels - Lucky? or maybe NEC gets pick of litter? While others get scraps?

 

[astromoose]

xtknight, are you sure? i read though most of the manual.pdf and did a search of it and nothing turned up... this would be a long term purchase for me so HDCP is important. (its either this or waiting for the 2007fpw from dell) thanks a lot for your help

edit: oh i just ran across an article on firingsquad.com that confirms it, apparently its the only NEC that supports it.

one question remains though, is the -BK model all black

thanks again

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Zebo
Anyway I'm suprisingly very pleased. I thought ths would be another RMA..I thought I was crazy for spending $700 in a 20" when there are $350-$500 twentys out there. All my fears were are laid to rest now. Ths monitor is worth every penny.

Nice. Don't see a review from Zebo like that very often. Glad you like it, I'm gonna try and get myself one, whenever time allows. You gonna keep it?

I've tried a dozen LCD's including all of dells but 2405 and new 30" ... I'm not messin' around here - this blows them all away. I've been playing farcry for the last hour and a half and can honestly say motion blur is starting to go away even (remember I' just got off a 2070 NEC diamondtron so I notice that kind of stuff immediatly) .. the no hieght adjustments a big PITA though if you're tall.. edit I fogot another slight down 93W!!!! this thing uses CRT power

 

[Zebo]

one question remains though, is the -BK model all black

All black but silver face bezel.. looks nice.

 

[astromoose]

zebo, is there a reseller you recommend getting it from. half of them say its out of stock or not released yet or seem somewhat sketchy. buy.com has it for $789... anywhere better?

 

[xtknight]

Zebo: Just a couple more things if you don't mind... If nothing else these are just a couple more images you can enjoy on the LCD.

Basically you just want to see if any look washed out anywhere from the backlight, and if you can clearly see every element distinctly.

• Backlight test
  http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/venice-ccfltest.jpg
  
  The wall in the rightmost side of the picture shouldn't be washed out. Under the arch, the floor should be a deep vibrant orange.
  
• Contrast test #1 (light texture)
  http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/venice-contrasttest.jpg
  
  The surfaces (on the big building with the Corinthian-like columns) should have a clearly distinct texture on them (lightish and darkish spots).
  
• Contrast test #2 (dark elements)
  http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/mg-darktest.jpg
  
  First, the bricks in the darkest foreground wall should be at least visible to a certain extent. The bottom part of the tree should have a difference in brightness to the adjacent walls.
  
• Earth tone test
  http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/byzantine-earth-tonetest.jpg
  
  In this pic, just make sure nothing is washed out and that the wall textures are clearly visible.
  
• Overdrive test
  http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/blur1.bmp

Move this pic around in a circle-like fashion and see how much it blurs and streaks. Also note any discolorations (bright fringing on colors). This is very likely the worst you'll see of your LCD in terms of transitions. Don't be afraid to say it's a disaster. It sure is on my VP930b.

Compare it to this, which should have very little blurring or discoloration: http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/noblur1.bmp

Sorry, a lot of tests, I know, but hopefully you found something out from it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: astromoose
xtknight, are you sure? i read though most of the manual.pdf and did a search of it and nothing turned up... this would be a long term purchase for me so HDCP is important. (its either this or waiting for the 2007fpw from dell) thanks a lot for your help

According to another users' phone call and an e-mail I sent, yes it does support HDCP.

Dear Sir
The 20WMGX2 does support HDCP via the DVI-D connector.

S. Balgaroo
NEC Display Service & Support
Telephone: 1-800-632-4662
Email: techsupport@necdisplay.com

 

[Zebo]

Killer user review

According to NEC email HDCP support in USA version.

 

[Zebo]

Sorry, a lot of tests, I know, but hopefully you found something out from it.

Gonna take me about 20 min to do testing right... I wanna try all DV modes too while I'm at it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Sorry, a lot of tests, I know, but hopefully you found something out from it.

Gonna take me about 20 min to do testing right... I wanna try all DV modes too while I'm at it.

OK, you might give the NEC 20WMGX2 drivers a shot too, I'm not sure if there's any difference or not.

 

[Zebo]

Backlight test

a) The right most wall is always a different color, and unsual color, than when the wall starts coming out from the right most wall. I think it's a video card problem in rendering foremost.

Washed out? Only in standard, text and movie mode... but I can clearly see all the bricks in all modes. Photo mode is superior in color very rich.

b) "deep vibrant " orange floor found in Photo mode and movie mode. Orange in all modes.

Contrast test #1 (light texture)

Yes patches are very visable and distinct in all modes

Contrast test #2 (dark elements)

Always bricks are very visable and cut especialy up front- All modes but photo mode is there a clear contrast of tree branches/leaves from the wall behind.

Earth tone test

Washed out a tad in "standard mode" otherwise clean an crisp bright colors

Overdrive test (s)

They were identical in practice...slight blur depending how fast you moved but held form very well. Definity no streaks or discolorations.

 

[xtknight]

You can only run the display at 60 Hz vertical, correct? Surprising to hear about the overdrive tests. On my VP930b, one is disasterous, and I mean disasterous in terms of streaking.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: xtknight
You can only run the display at 60 Hz vertical, correct? Surprising to hear about the overdrive tests. On my VP930b, one is disasterous, and I mean disasterous in terms of streaking.

60Hz and vsync off. No streaking.

BTW I never liked vsync - seems jittery and sluggish even with read ahead. I just deal with tearing sometimes in games.

 

[samduhman]

Now I don't know what to do. Im a hardcore gamer and over the past 2 years have been thinking about finally replacing my aging 19" Samsung crt with a LCD. I've been waiting for the Samsung 940bf 19" 2ms to hit the streets. I then ran up on a forum thread about the Samsung 204b and was ready to run out to my local Best Buy and pick it up today. That is until I read this thread. The lack of 16.7mill colors bothers me. Im not sure how much it actually affects the looks of games or pictures.

I then get stoked about the NEC 20WMGX2 from reading this thread. Not only can I not go buy it locally but its ruffly $230+ more than the Samsung 204b. At that much difference in cost Im not totally sure they should even be compared to each other.

So looks like Im back to square 1.

- Do I keep waiting for the 940bf. Go ahead and get the 204b or keep saving my cash till I can afford the 20WMGX2 which will be a long time because if I bought the Samsung 204b today at Best Buy I was going to use the 0% interest for 12 months and pay it off over that time period?

 

[darXoul]

Wow, Zebo

I honestly didn't expect such a review from you. It looks like this monitor truly is a gem, along with its awesome new S-IPS panel.

If this ah heck was 23" with height adjustment and no glossy coating, I'd grab it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately:

- the glossy coating may bother me;
- 20" wide = fairly small vertically, roughly equivalent to 19" CRT;
- 1680*1050 = no possibility to go down easily to a 4:3 resolution without horizontal bars (further reducing the image size) like on 23 inchers where you can go down from 1920*1200 to 1600*1200 if the game doesn't support widescreen;
- the LG L2000C isn't available in Poland yet, besides it could be a tad slower with its 8 ms g2g response time - and on S-PVA, the difference between 6 ms and 8 ms is HUGE;
- no one really knows when monitors equipped with the new 23" 6 ms S-IPS panel will be released.

Crap

What to do? What would you suggest, Zebo, xtknight and others?

BTW, Zebo, how would you evaluate Samsung 204B in comparison to NEC LCD20WMGX2 in terms of response time and other features?

 

[Zebo]

L2000C is S-IPS they say so right at thier site. I read it's the new IPS just introduced in JAN at a site but I can't find it now..you'll just have to trust me and that unknown site. Checks this out...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=L2000C+ces
Seriously I would'nt hesitate to buy it...only reason I have NEC now is I found LG afterwards. You know that I PM'ed you and xknight asking if I should cancel once I found LG... I'm confident its new overdriven AS-IPS since thier last years model, the L2013P they state is 16ms which all the LGP S-IPS were last year and year before that. I doubt they would just make up 8ms... Combined with LGP making the NEC, it being new, it saying 8, the zero probability of LG using a third party panel when they manufacture them there is a 99% chance in my mind that L2000C is new AS-IPS with OD.

....don't really want me to compare a high-end IPS to a TN do you? I don't want to offend anyone ATM. Just think of a 2006 Porche 911 turbo vs a 1966 Vette with 427.. both are fast but one superior in every way.

.

samduhman same thing, LG...$520 shipped at page. We need someone to check this out... Don't tell me I have to do it...

 

[darXoul]

Yes, man. You have to do it

I'm 100% sure that the L2000C uses the new S-IPS panel with OD but I wonder why NEC is rated 6 ms and LG 8. What if there is a perceptible diefference in response time? My current option no. 1 is the LG but it's not available here. I wonder when it's gonna be. My upgrade is just around 2 weeks away so I hope I can get the LG soon...