Waa I want an Dell 2405 fpw so badly, the only reason I havent switched yet is the dot pitch and contrast on Phillips 109bs is soo divine(non-aperture grille) I can "suffer" a CRT abit longer. The day They hit $600 I'm jumping ship.
Zebo
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I bought both 204B and VX924 from frys yesterday - bought them because they had them cnonected to some lame 8x6 screen saver and refused to hook them to a real comp with a real video card to sample - anyway, both suck. Colors are weak and screen has light coming though black at sides. The 204b feels cheap too. Lot's of tearing "noise" on both unlike 2005FPW...I notice ghosting with both still but not as much as 2005FPW :::SIGH::: quest continues.
Bleh, I wanted to buy the 204B myself, and that's pretty much the first negative review.
Did you try to calibrate / adjust it? After proper adjustment, colors should be pretty accurate. As for backlight, I saw some pics and there was some very faint bleeding along the lower edge of the screen but I thought it was very good on the whole. As for tearing, do you experience it with vsync enabled?
Zebo
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Dar - DVI and auto adjusted colors on both. Played with brightness and contrast manually.
Yes with async enabled I experianced tearing.. Bad on VX924 but not huge on 204B, much more a factor with VX924.
Also the back light shinning though on black backgrounds was not as bad on the 204B either. Just slightly. It was huge on the VX924, like stretching almost 4cm into screen from all four sides! And this is with 50% brightness - what a aweful monitor that was (VX924).
Even though I returned both - I would check out 204B - maybe you will find satisfactory.
It's stand and housing is cheap rattle trap plasticy feeling but at least it has xyz axis adjustments unlike VX924, which was well constructed but stationary. Beware - I am very particular about monitors so take all this with a grian of salt. Only a couple CRT's out of all I've ever liked (FD trinitrons and UN-X Diamondtrons) and no LCD's thus far I've found "good". It's such a big time trade off.. the dells picture and text is the best IMO - until you get something moving.
Yes with async enabled I experianced tearing.. Bad on VX924 but not huge on 204B, much more a factor with VX924.
Also the back light shinning though on black backgrounds was not as bad on the 204B either. Just slightly. It was huge on the VX924, like stretching almost 4cm into screen from all four sides! And this is with 50% brightness - what a aweful monitor that was (VX924).
Even though I returned both - I would check out 204B - maybe you will find satisfactory.
It's stand and housing is cheap rattle trap plasticy feeling but at least it has xyz axis adjustments unlike VX924, which was well constructed but stationary. Beware - I am very particular about monitors so take all this with a grian of salt. Only a couple CRT's out of all I've ever liked (FD trinitrons and UN-X Diamondtrons) and no LCD's thus far I've found "good". It's such a big time trade off.. the dells picture and text is the best IMO - until you get something moving.
Zebo:
Very odd. I thought the Dell 2005FPW would have almost the worst backlight bleeding ever (the 2001FP definitely does, and uses same panel brand and tech)?? The bad colors are probably an effect of both using TN panels, definitely not as high contrast as the VA ones so you may want to check those out to save yourself wasting time in the future if you are not happy with TNs. That new NEC that just came out would be right up your alley (it actually uses IPS with high-contrast tech).
Very odd. I thought the Dell 2005FPW would have almost the worst backlight bleeding ever (the 2001FP definitely does, and uses same panel brand and tech)?? The bad colors are probably an effect of both using TN panels, definitely not as high contrast as the VA ones so you may want to check those out to save yourself wasting time in the future if you are not happy with TNs. That new NEC that just came out would be right up your alley (it actually uses IPS with high-contrast tech).
Zebo
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I can take a picture if you think it will come out.. But neither Dell 1905 or 2005 has "Screendoor" or "backlight bleed though" on a jet black background which incidently is my desktop color, black. One of the problem with taking a picture is the flash... But I assure you with lights off , no bleeding.
Ugh...
Well, it's hit and miss I guess. The 1905FP uses one of two panels (one AUO P-MVA and one Samsung S-PVA). I think it uses the same AUO as my VP930b, and my VP930b is definitely not the darkish inkblot. My old Samsung TN was that way, a little I guess. Not like how some horrible laptop screens are though. On the other hand the VP930b is very bright, but it has trouble keeping its vibrancy in darker tones. I'm pretty sure now that all of those use some form of dithering, while more of the S-IPS may be more true 8-bit. That NEC is supposed to have some advanced color calibration feature in it. Couple that with the low response time and you should have a great monitor right there.
I'm very anxious to hear your review on the new NEC if/when you get it. When it comes to monitors you seem the most unbiased around here.
I'm a LCD rookie and have been learning a lot about this whole 6bit/8bit color depth panel stuff. I've found it's just about impossible to know for sure which one is used. For some strange reason manufacturers do not want to list that even in the PDF specs. Even most reviews don't touch on it. From what I have gathered, the rule of thumb seems to be if it's faster than 20ms response, most likely it's using a 6 bit pixel panel. I've also seen the rule of thumb that if it's stated at exactly 16.7 millions colors, it's 8 bit and if it's listed as "more than 16 million" or "16.2 million" or "16.5 million", most likely it's a 6 bit. But even there I have seen one website store list one as "16.7 million" and another list it as "more than 16 million". Very confusing and leaves one wondering, "just how the hell do you really know" and why are the manufacturers so reluctant to give that info?
I recently bought my first LCD monitor. A NEC 70GX2. With the 4ms response and 700:1 contrast and advertised as a gamers LCD, I chose it. This was before I knew anything about the 6 bit/8bit stuff. Now I find it's using a 6 bit panel just as every other single 17" monitor I've seen does and now appears most 19" LCDs also. I think the clear majority of LCD monitors that advertise a fast response time are 6 bit. Seems that's the only way it can currently be done. It's either fast (game playing acceptable) with 6 bit (lower color reproduction using dithering to simulate more colors) or slower response time (not for game playing) with 8 bit (true 24 bit color reproduction).
I was thinking about returning this monitor but now after seeing what's really available with an 8 bit panel, I am now trying to decide if I want to keep it. Decision, decisions. It's does look pretty dam good. A lot crisper than my CRT, love the way games look (they play fine) but I do notice sometimes the dithering affects from the color limitation (I've also noticed photos look better on a CRT). Here is a link showing what I'm talking about. Halfway down the page shows a blue box with 256 hues of blue, showing how it looks rendered with a 6 bit panel. You can clearly see the color banding which I assume would not be there using an LCD with an 8 bit panel.
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2289&p=16
I'm so dam confused now about keeping or returning this LCD monitor.
I recently bought my first LCD monitor. A NEC 70GX2. With the 4ms response and 700:1 contrast and advertised as a gamers LCD, I chose it. This was before I knew anything about the 6 bit/8bit stuff. Now I find it's using a 6 bit panel just as every other single 17" monitor I've seen does and now appears most 19" LCDs also. I think the clear majority of LCD monitors that advertise a fast response time are 6 bit. Seems that's the only way it can currently be done. It's either fast (game playing acceptable) with 6 bit (lower color reproduction using dithering to simulate more colors) or slower response time (not for game playing) with 8 bit (true 24 bit color reproduction).
I was thinking about returning this monitor but now after seeing what's really available with an 8 bit panel, I am now trying to decide if I want to keep it. Decision, decisions. It's does look pretty dam good. A lot crisper than my CRT, love the way games look (they play fine) but I do notice sometimes the dithering affects from the color limitation (I've also noticed photos look better on a CRT). Here is a link showing what I'm talking about. Halfway down the page shows a blue box with 256 hues of blue, showing how it looks rendered with a 6 bit panel. You can clearly see the color banding which I assume would not be there using an LCD with an 8 bit panel.
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2289&p=16
I'm so dam confused now about keeping or returning this LCD monitor.
Hmm, I'll probably check it out then. Response time is crucial since I might not be a hardcore gamer now in terms of time dedicated to gaming (work, girlfriend, etc.
) but I need great response time for Q3 CPMA (which is pretty much the fastest FPS out there, along with Painkiller) and other games as well. That's why I'm interested in 204B.Heh, I'm picky as well. I had several CRTs and tested several LCDs but I'm still sticking with my Philips 109P4 which is IMO among the very best CRTs ever produced. I actually returned it twice because the first two had unacceptably fragile anti-glare coating and some contrast issues in the corners but the panel I have now is just about perfect.
I'd get the 244T in an instant but the input lag is a deal breaker. Therefore, I guess I'll grab the 204B. If I don't like it, I'll try to return or sell it and wait for the 6 ms AS-IPS panel in some other monitors - the NEC LCD20WGX2 may be a great monitor but as I said, I just don't like 1680*1050 widescreens...
20WGX2 = 271 mm vertical size.
My 109P4 = ca. 274 mm.
They are pretty much the same height (viewable area).
For comparison:
204B = 306 mm.
21.3" 4:3 or 24" 16:10 monitors = 324 mm.
As for the NEC, knowing that IPS is always faster than VA with the same specs, I bet it's gonna be a bit better for gaming than Acer/Smasung 24" widescreens based on the 6 ms S-PVA. In other words, very good for an LCD, hopefully damn close to fastest TNs.
My potential issues with this display: (1) if forced to play in non-ws aspect (1280x1024 or preferably 1280x960), black horizontal bars will make the image a bit too small for my taste - in the 4:3 res, it's around 12 mm each, and that's a lot IMO, (2) glossy coating - it may improve image clarity and overall quality impression but I consider ambient reflections pretty distracting and one of the disadvantages of CRT, so I don't really want to encounter them on a new LCD, (3) no height adjustment - tilt + great IPS-typical viewing angles might be a good justification for lack of this feature but for maximum convenience, I prefer LCDs with height adj. anyway.
My 109P4 = ca. 274 mm.
They are pretty much the same height (viewable area).
For comparison:
204B = 306 mm.
21.3" 4:3 or 24" 16:10 monitors = 324 mm.
As for the NEC, knowing that IPS is always faster than VA with the same specs, I bet it's gonna be a bit better for gaming than Acer/Smasung 24" widescreens based on the 6 ms S-PVA. In other words, very good for an LCD, hopefully damn close to fastest TNs.
My potential issues with this display: (1) if forced to play in non-ws aspect (1280x1024 or preferably 1280x960), black horizontal bars will make the image a bit too small for my taste - in the 4:3 res, it's around 12 mm each, and that's a lot IMO, (2) glossy coating - it may improve image clarity and overall quality impression but I consider ambient reflections pretty distracting and one of the disadvantages of CRT, so I don't really want to encounter them on a new LCD, (3) no height adjustment - tilt + great IPS-typical viewing angles might be a good justification for lack of this feature but for maximum convenience, I prefer LCDs with height adj. anyway.
Originally posted by: Zebo
2. It really has that shinny surface?@!?!?!
Yes, NEC's new GX displays all boast the glare coating. There is a user review here:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/fo...8&sid=af95953bfc3512cbb08afe225a7b9d9a
Some people like this coating but I've seen the 90GX2, and I must say it would bother me. It would mirror the window which is behind me. Even though my room isn't really sunny, I have to darken it any time I play games. With this LCD, I'd have to do the same.
for a non-ws lcd and with the budget you have, i'd recommend the viewsonic vp2030b. i picked one up recently for a friend and tested it out before passing it onto him. this 8ms gtg lcd is lag-free in both dvds and videogames based on my testing at the native rez of 16x12.
I don't know about Zebo, but I have been considering the VP2030b. I decided not to pick it up due to several factors: (a) backlight bleeding in corners, so typical for ViewSonic monitors, (b) IMHO insufficient response time for fast games (seen the VP930 in action), (c) input lag reported by a pretty reliable poster on flatpanel.dk boards (in all resolutions, with both DVI and VGA), (d) enormous footprint.
Well, I guess Im a little late to the 204b party, and this is my first post here, so try hard to flame me for my $0.02. I've been reading this forum for over a year and a half now, and decided to give my insights on a couple of these monitors. Zebo, I did exactly what you posted, took your review with a HUGE grain of salt and just assumed that there isnt really any lcd out there right now that would satisfy you, and that you probably have the most sensitive eyes in the world. But, you are a frequent poster and im sure you've helped on many occasions so I can respect your review based on your experience.
I've been using a 204b for the past month and I have to say I absolutely love it. Yea its a TN panel, but so what, it looks lovely. BTW, its listed as displaying 16.7 million colors, whether that makes it 8-bit, who knows, who cares, it LOOKS wonderful. The way I see it, if you don't go looking for problems with the monitor, then you'll probably be happy with what you got. I didnt even know what backlight bleeding or dithering or all this other terminilogies were until I came here a read about it. Do I have backlight bleeding?? Don't notice it, I dont stare at black screens all day. Even in games like FEAR, its UNNOTICABLE to me. Ghosting, unnoticable. Blurring ( I know the difference), I can see it a bit if I really focus for it, but what lcd doesnt have blurring or ghosting :roll: .
Before I got this monitor, I went through not one, but TWO Gateway 21" FPD2185W monitors. The DVI connection blew out on both for me. Im not the only who had this happened, you can read about tons of other problems people have had with the monitor here, this particular linked page covers the DVI going kaput:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=960883&page=50&pp=20
I am glad that there are some owners here who are absolutely happy with their Gateway purchase, but I just unfortunately fell into the crowd that got the bad batch from gateway. Forums are mostly posted by those who have problems, so there are problably tons more who are happy with the Gateway, so problems shouldnt taken as facts unless they occur a lot more often. But its the end of the line for me and Gateway, gave me too many problems.
And Zebo, I love that terminilogy "rorschach inkblot" because thats what I started to notice on my Gateways. Anyways, so I was able to, thank goodness, get my money back on the Gateway and I got the Samsung 204b, and I'll say it again, it looked worlds better than the Gateway, picture, contrast, color/gamma adjustments, brightness, and all. I didnt have to adjust much of anything out of the box. Sure vertical viewing angles are caca, but I dont look at my monitor from the top down or the sides...its right in front of me. It's not widescreen, nor does it have all those fancy HDCP inputs, but it does everything I need beautifully with no problems. Widesreen just doesnt have enough gaming support right now for me to justify getting a WS monitor. Hacking files to make games work is still hacking files, it may work well it may not. Tearing?? Present on all lcds, use vsync, respect the current state of technology on lcds because they are just not quite up to speed with crts in that department. I absolutely agree with DarXoul about staying away from WS monitors less than 23", the Gateway was 21" and the vertical was very very short to me, bleh.
So with that said,I'd say the Samsung is a great buy, I got mine for $450 from fry's...$529.99 - $30 MIR - 10% Managers discount (friend, muahahaa) and its probably one of the fastest TN panels on the market right now for its size 20.1", 1600 x 1200. And use DVI please, gosh, the difference between vga and dvi is astounding. BTW, these come with their own single link dvi-d cable, but im using a dual one I HAD to buy for the gateways (thats right, doesnt come with a cable at all). The driver is solid and the tweaking software is excellent for the Samsung as well
Originally posted by: Zebo
2. It really has that shinny surface?@!?!?!
People have said the glare looks a lot worse in store, and even without the glossy coating my LCD glares quite a bit anyway. So I don't think it'll be a deal breaker for you. Look at the good sides of it: easier to clean your screen, it boosts contrast, and it's an extra layer of protection. But I bet if this IPS tech takes off, then they will sell the panel to other companies and there will be non-glossy non-widescreen ones.
Wow. darXoul, thanks for that review link. Sounds like the guy is in love with that thing.
I certainly hope so. The German site prad.de (also available in English) promised to publish a test of the NEC monitor soon. One of the admins confirmed it on the boards. It would be the first "professional" review and a good indication what the new panel is capable of. I can't wait for reviews to come.
Tig Ol Bitties most likely confirmed my choice - I'll give the 204B a try... unless a 23/24" ws or 20/21" non-ws display with the new IPS panel comes out before my upgrade - which probably won't happen.
There's a 'tour' here of the GX monitors: http://www.nec-display-solutions.com/gamingspecial/index_en.html
Holy crap...look at all the inputs...even component...and it has PIP (picture in picture).
Holy crap...look at all the inputs...even component...and it has PIP (picture in picture).
Zebo
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Welcome to the forums and good first post.
I don't diagree with you - it's a good monitor - just not good enough
so I'm not shy in sharing the negative. You're right about motion blur - it will be impossible to elminate unless 3ms is obtained across the color spectrum so I better just earn to deal with it. According to Tomshardware the best TN's hover in the 15ms range for real not thier marketing best color response time. The object is to find ones who stay low for a "good enough" effect. Pleased you have found it.$482 shipped for those interested.
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