What's the BEST LCD Monitor I can get for ~$650?

[deadken]

Originally posted by: Sunrise089
Remember, 1600x1200 is a lot of resolution for a 6800GT to push. Not trying to insult your card, it's still great, but that is a high resolution to never be able to drop down from.

Well, is that a fixed resolution? I have started seeing a few LCD's that say they support several resolutions (I haven't seen this one state that though). I DO bame in BF2 @ 1600X1200 with 2X AA (just turn Dynamic shadows and Lighting off, it makes a world of difference).

Also, I can't imagine me staying with this card for more then another year. I assume that soon I will be making the jump to an A64 w/PCIe, and a 7800GT at least. But, as I said, I know that I can game @ 1600X1200 right now.

Thanks for the links xtknight, I will check out the write ups and info as soon as I can.

 

[xtknight]

Sure, all LCDs support multiple resolution for the most part, it's just that they have to do digital "zoom", interpolation, to get there.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: deadken
I have considered finding a 19" LCD for around $300 and then spending the 'other' $350 on a 64-bit upgrade. I doubt that any $300 19" LCD monitor would suffice my needs though.

Have you considered sticking with CRT and picking up an off-lease Sony FW900? It's a 21" Widescreen CRT that is considered by many to be the very best CRT monitor ever made and can be picked up for around $300 plus shipping (usually $100). Original MSRP on these were $2,300.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=952788&page=1

Pros
No dead pixels to worry about
No substandard blacks
No fixed resolution
No backlight bleeding
No ghosting
Low cost compared to widescreen LCD

Cons
Off-lease, not new
Obviously deeper than LCD
Weight - 93 lbs


I have the HP equivalent (A7217A) and absolutely love it. I was able to pick mine up semi-locally and didn't need to pay a $100 shipping charge which made it an absolute steal in my opinion. There isn't an LCD out there that can even come close to this sort of value for uncompromised video quality.

 

[xtknight]

You have more things to worry about with used/refurbs like bad geometry, bad brightness, and blurriness.

 

[darXoul]

xtknight, it's almost funny how we can never be sure now which panel uses dithering and which doesn't, until we can rely on a thorough test. 970p is 6 bit then...

The Polish site mva.pl tested the VP930 some time ago, and they claimed the 8-bit color depth was achieved through dithering. Another confirmation then.


Given the choice between the 970p and the 204b, I'd grab the latter. Why?
- 4:3 aspect ratio is IMO more natural than 5:4,
- 0.255 mm pixels create a sharper, less grainy image than 0.294 mm pixels which also make the image prone to the screen door effect,
- 5 ms on/off time is great - the monitor should be noticeably faster in games than ANY non-TN display,
- 20" = more 'screen real estate' and higher resolution for good video cards,
- IMO it looks better

Its single potentially really annoying drawback is the vertical viewing angle. I think it's very subjective - some people may say "I don't play games when lying on the floor so who cares". Others will claim "I hate it when the colors shift in brightness and contrast just when I move my head up or down just a few inches". YMMV. Try it yourself - this is my advice. I'd personally grab the 20 incher.

 

[deadken]

Does anybody know where I can find a Samsung 204B? I want to see it for myself before buying it. I've checked CompUSA, Circuit City, Best Buy, etc... But still can't seem to find one to look at (most likely, even buy). Any input, as always, would be greatly appreciated.

-Thanks, Ken.

BTW: Interesting info. on the Sony CRT, but I couldn't even afford the desktop real estate!

 

[deadken]

Alright, I want to let everyone know that I have ordered the Samsung 204B from Frys/Outpost.com, and it should be here in a week. They have it for $530 and a $30 rebate that ends tomorrow. I will post back after I get it/test it.

-Ken

 

[SniperWulf]

Originally posted by: broly8877
Gateway FPD2185W - 21" Widescreen 1680x1050
Component, Composite, Svideo, VGA, DVI input


Fantastic LCD.

I have one of these and I love it

 

[Zebo]

FYI- Quick and dirty way I've found to check out ghosting/motion blur at your local computershop/frys since they don't have games installed usually is 1) set visual properties to "display window contents while dragging" - then 2) open a win explorer window or something and start dragging it around the screen at a steady pace 2in/sec or more. The clearer the text remains the better for gamers. A CRT will never get blurry even dragging as fast as you can so you can use that for comparision.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Zebo
FYI- Quick and dirty way I've found to check out ghosting/motion blur at your local computershop/frys since they don't have games installed usually is 1) set visual properties to "display window contents while dragging" - then 2) open a win explorer window or something and start dragging it around the screen at a steady pace 2in/sec or more. The clearer the text remains the better for gamers. A CRT will never get blurry even dragging as fast as you can so you can use that for comparision.

The problem is, LCDs have different transitions against the whole spectrum (Overdrive complicates this more). So the text moving could be a lot better or a lot worse than the in-game effects. The 204B won't have as much a problem though because it's TN and doesn't go up to 60 ms like some of the VA ones do (in rare situations).

 

[deadken]

Well, I have gotten the Monitor (204b) and hooked everything up. I have to admit, I am rather impressed with Outpost.com in this case since I ordered the Monitor on Tuesday with 'ground' shipping ($12) and got the monitor on Thursday, it was rather quick. Props to Outpost and DHL (who's tracking feature leaves 'something to be desired).

I have to admit this thing is BIG and pretty. The resolution (1600x1200) takes a little getting used to. I have installed most of the software and made the color adjustments, and then dis-abled them all from start-up. Geez, who needs yet another 3 programs running all the time?

It seems that I have 'one' dead pixel. I might have more, but this one kinda stands out to me (center of the screen towards the bottom). Does anyone know of a free 'testing' program, so that you can check for stuck/dead pixels? One wasn't on the CD that came with the monitor (surprise, surprise....).

I haven't been able to get BF2 up and running yet. The game just opens and then closes, never really displaying anything (the screen turns black, but then kinda minimizes before closing). I am betting that it is because BF2 starts off at some lower resolution and then goes to what you set it at when the game starts. I am not positive, but I will be working on getting that working before I make any major judgements on this Monitor. Please understand that BF2 is EXTREMELY buggy, but it is something we put up with for good gameplay.

-Thanks with all the help so far, Ken

 

[VIAN]

The 19" vp930 by viewsonic. Get it at Dell.com.

This is the 2nd fastest monitor available, only surpassed a bit by it's predecessor.

It's about 500 bucks.

 

[Compellor]

Originally posted by: VIAN
The 19" vp930 by viewsonic. Get it at Dell.com.

This is the 2nd fastest monitor available, only surpassed a bit by it's predecessor.

It's about 500 bucks.

You can get it for $50 cheaper at ZZF.

 

[Turkey22]

My roomate just got his 19" widescreen ($350-$50rebate)yesterday as an upgrade from 19"crt. It looks great in gaming no ghosting whatsoever, it is a huge difference vertically but the horizontal gain is tremendous. I still use a 17"crt so it would be a vast improvement for me. Everything outside of gaming is incredible too btw.

 

[deadken]

Originally posted by: VIAN
The 19" vp930 by viewsonic. Get it at Dell.com.

This is the 2nd fastest monitor available, only surpassed a bit by it's predecessor.

It's about 500 bucks.

I had considered a 19" monitor throughout the thread, but I decided against it ultimately when we discussed that the resolution on a 19" and a 17" are exactly the same. So, if you wanted a bigger picture with the pixels spaced further apart, then the 19" is fine, but if you think it will be as 'crisp' as a 17" you are mistaken. Some have likened looking at a 19" LCD closely to looking outside through a screen door. Couple that with the fact that the Samsung 970P (a very nice 19") is almost the same price (after M.I.R.) as the 20" Samsung that I bought (again, a very nice 20"), and the decision became a no-brainer.

I will post back again when I get BF2 to work properly.

-Ken

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: hans007
20WMGX2 is 6bit.

but still... i think once that is in better availability and the price is < $600 i might have to get that.

How do you know that? Everything indicates it's an S-IPS (8-bit). With such high contrast I don't think a TN would be possible for that. You can see in a PDF they rate similar models which are TNs with 85 angle, and the 20WMGX2 has 89 angle (178 each pair of directions).

i think the only reason i said it was 6bit was all the others in the opticlear line are and their documentation says "more than 16 million colors" not 16.7 which is usually what indicated 24bit.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: hans007
i think the only reason i said it was 6bit was all the others in the opticlear line are and their documentation says "more than 16 million colors" not 16.7 which is usually what indicated 24bit.

Extrapolating from the viewing angles, this looks like it will be a surprise. (Whether it's "true" 8-bit is to be seen.)

 

[deadken]

Originally posted by: deadken
I haven't been able to get BF2 up and running yet. The game just opens and then closes, never really displaying anything (the screen turns black, but then kinda minimizes before closing). ..... I will be working on getting that working before I make any major judgements on this Monitor. Please understand that BF2 is EXTREMELY buggy, but it is something we put up with for good gameplay....

I was able to finally get BF2 working on the monitor!!! I had done a google search for the problem (bf2 won't work with new lcd monitor) and after a bit of digging, I found others with the same problem and the only solution that seemed to work was re-installing the game. Well, I tried just re-installing the latest patch and that worked. However, my framerate was way off. Upon closer inspection, re-installing the patch had also reset all of my Video settings. I reset them the best I could remember and finally got everything working smoothly!

I have to admit, things do seems crystal clear on the new monitor. I wish there wasn't such a large gap between me using my CRT for BF2 and the LCD. I might just put the CRT back on the desk to compare the two a little more closely. I think that I did see what I believe was 'tearing'. From time to time I think if I panned from one side to the other (like turning left to right...) there was a bit of 'artifacting' or something where part of a picture stayed onscreen longer then it should have. I didn't really have time to watch closely for it, but I will check my settings to see if I can eliminate it (I think I read to 'dis-able' vertical sync or something....)

More updates to come as events warrant...

Wrap up:

1) I am still looking for a free program to check for dead/stuck pixels, please give me a name or a link to a decent one.

2) Any tips/clarification on what tearing is, or what I might have been seeing would be appreciated.

3) Any suggestions on how to eliminate tearing would be appreciated.

-Thanks, Ken

 

[xtknight]

Dead Pixel Buddy

If the dead pixel is a color (not black) then you might be able to fix it by other means like gently massaging it with a Q-tip but I'm not sure if there is any truth to that myth (heard it worked for some though).

You want to enable vertical sync so that half-frames aren't set to monitor and don't prematurely cause the LCD to redraw just part of the screen (mouthful but I just explained sync problems in one sentence). The simple/paraphrased reason there are any half-frames at all is because the GPU renders too fast for the monitor and so the GPU sends what it can. For BF2 you have to force VSync on, because application preference doesn't turn it on (BF2 does not enable VSync within itself).

To start BF2 with the new resolution all you probably needed to do was delete the config (sorry I didn't reply earlier).

As for the artifacting...well...I'm not sure. Try the VSync first and see if that helps. If not, it could be simply the response time of the LCD. Running BF2 at native (max) resolution will help alleviate this. If you are already at native, well, unfortunately it could be some artifacts from the overdrive circuitry in the LCD, just due to how it works to change pixels faster. Sometimes it produces undesirable effects. These seem quite uncommon for my LCD but occasionally I do see them with certain rare pixel transitions. It's not blurring is it? I'd be quite surprised that there would be any of that at all on such a fast panel.

 

[bmosher]

Thanks for the info regarding the Samsung 204B. Here's a link to the utility I use to look for dead pixels:

http://www.edgeworld.com/notebook/old/dead.htm

It's a pretty simple program, just cycles full-screen colors, but works for me.

hope this helps,
--Brian

 

[deadken]

Thanks for all of the help. As it turns out, the pixel I was most upset with (and the only I had found) must have just been 'stuck'. It has started working perfectly.

Well, I had thought that the LCD was perfect until I ran Dead Pixel Buddy, I just found a dead/stuck pixel. But, it is literally 1/16" down from the top, way over on the right. I don't think I could have asked for a better spot! It is barely onscreen.

I have enabled VSync, and will game for a while now and see what it looks like. BTW: No way would I describe what I saw as blurring. It did match up with what you explained (VSync) where I was seeing a part of a different frame (I had thought old, never thinking it could be a new partial frame).

-Thanks again for all of the help so far, I have learned ALOT!

-Ken

 

[Zebo]

Awesome.

More review ken. Viewing angles? Ghosting? Contrast? Kicking the CRT to the trash can?

 

[Balex99]

Well my experience with the 204B has been great. My first LCD and I could not ask for anything more. Was torn between a Dell but wanted to buy locally. Found the 204B at BB for $529. No dead/stuck pixels(used pixel buddy). Colors are fantastic(after abit of adjusting). No ghosting that I can tell, and no backlighting issues. I guess it is just the nature of LCD's but tearing is more noticable. I use to run vsync all the time but with SLI, I can't always run vsync without it disabling the 2nd gpu(that is the driver I am waiting for. When I am able to run BF2 with SLI and vsync....all will be right with the world.

The muslims may disagree though.

As far as viewing angles go, I don't notice a problem. I pretty much look at my monitor from one spot which is head on. May bother others but for me it is not an issue.

 

[xtknight]

Ken, it sounds like VSync is definitely your problem then. From you guys' reviews it sounds like the 204B will be a Christmas present for me (lonnnnnng way away).

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: hans007
i think the only reason i said it was 6bit was all the others in the opticlear line are and their documentation says "more than 16 million colors" not 16.7 which is usually what indicated 24bit.

Extrapolating from the viewing angles, this looks like it will be a surprise. (Whether it's "true" 8-bit is to be seen.)

apparently you were right, it is an 8bit panel, 6ms, sips. or something like that (read an article yestserday about it, sadly i forgot where)