what the palestinians teach their kids

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: Aimster

If you think the Israeli people have any feelings for the Palestinian people you are wrong. They look at them as animals and that is why they get shot for throwing rocks at tanks because they simply don't care for the innocent children getting killed.

...sorta like how they executed that Palestinian youth yesterday who arrived at a border checkpoint with a bomb strapped to his waist.

Palestinian apologists have a hard time accepting the fact that Israeli military action directed at the Palestinians is ALWAYS in response to or in an effort to prevent Palestinian terrorists from killing Israelis. Israel has no terrorists, just a well-trained professional army who is pretty damn effective at what they do. There are times unfortunately, when an Innocent Palestinian may be killed but it is damn near always the case that the soldiers were targeting terrorists when such an unfortunate incident occurs.

How else can you explain the fact that the Israelis have killed Palestinian terrorists with remarkable precision while Israeli casualties are overwhelmingly innocent civilians. One points to targeted elimination of terrorists while the other points to random acts of violence intended to kill as many persons as possible.

In addition, Palestinian propaganda is well documented. Their schools and cultures exudes virulent anti-semitism. The majority of Palestinians support suicide bombings. Yes, their are instances of Israeli propaganda also. However, the difference is that this is a tiny minority and routinely dismissed and unsupported by any significant amount of Israelis.

If one is willing to dismiss Palestinian propaganda as unlikely or exaggerated, then how is it possible to see little children,one hands holding their parents and the other holding a toy gun, marching in support of terror organizations? How is it possible to observe 30+ youths sent to be human bombs and to "die a martyrs death"? How is it possible that Palestinian parents routinely exclaim that it would be an honor for their children to become a suicide bomber?

You see, to deny these things are a result of some of the worst propaganda this world has seen since WWII, is to deny the Palistinians have a heart. You would, in essence, be saying that Palestinians are born with rage, hate and anti-semitism. In fact, it would be you Aimster, who is the Palestinian hater, since you are denying the very reasons Palestinian society is as morally depraved as it is. No one is claiming Palestinians are inherently a bad people, but rather we are claiming that vitriolic anti-semitic propaganda, corrupt leadership, and violence have crafted a very dangerous society.

I see, so it is Palestinian propaganda that Israel settler continue to expand into the occupied territory and Isael army charge into refugee camps, destoring homes and killing innocent women and children in the name of searching for terrorist?

If Israel had nothing to hide, why did they deny international observation during their operatins at Jenin Refugee camp?

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: rchiu


I see, so it is Palestinian propaganda that Israel settler continue to expand into the occupied territory and Isael army charge into refugee camps, destoring homes and killing innocent women and children in the name of searching for terrorist?

Nope, it's a matter of priorities and the number one priority right now for Israel is defense against terrorists. Your second point is a fallacy and put forth by...guess what? Palestinian propaganda.

If Israel had nothing to hide, why did they deny international observation during their operatins at Jenin Refugee camp?

Sure bring up the Jenin refugee camp in an effort to dispel Palestinian propaganda. It does wonders for your cause.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: rchiu


I see, so it is Palestinian propaganda that Israel settler continue to expand into the occupied territory and Isael army charge into refugee camps, destoring homes and killing innocent women and children in the name of searching for terrorist?

Nope, it's a matter of priorities and the number one priority right now for Israel is defense against terrorists. Your second point is a fallacy and put forth by...guess what? Palestinian propaganda.

If Israel had nothing to hide, why did they deny international observation during their operatins at Jenin Refugee camp?

Sure bring up the Jenin refugee camp in an effort to dispel Palestinian propaganda. It does wonders for your cause.

Oh, you are saying Israel never charge into Palestinian refugee camps, destroying homes and killing the innocent? All those are just made believe by the Palestinian propaganda. OKAY, if you say so.....

 

[Czar]

DBL,

Palestinian apologists have a hard time accepting the fact that Israeli military action directed at the Palestinians is ALWAYS in response to or in an effort to prevent Palestinian terrorists from killing Israelis.

http://mepc.org/public_asp/resources/mrates.asp
go through the months, the blue spikes are usualy suicide attacks
So far this month one suicide attack resulting in 10 isreali deaths, and on the other side, 82 palestinians killed

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: rchiu


Oh, you are saying Israel never charge into Palestinian refugee camps, destroying homes and killing the innocent? All those are just made believe by the Palestinian propaganda. OKAY, if you say so.....

They do charge into refugee camps to locate the homes of suicide bombers. They then evacuate the families and give ample warning before the home is destroyed. There have been a couple of unfortunate incidents where elderly people have been killed. These were accidents and unintentional.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: Czar
DBL,

Palestinian apologists have a hard time accepting the fact that Israeli military action directed at the Palestinians is ALWAYS in response to or in an effort to prevent Palestinian terrorists from killing Israelis.

http://mepc.org/public_asp/resources/mrates.asp
go through the months, the blue spikes are usualy suicide attacks
So far this month one suicide attack resulting in 10 isreali deaths, and on the other side, 82 palestinians killed

Please! Do you think so little of my intelligence that you would post meaningless statistics.

What if I told you that 2000 Afghanis and 100 Americans had died in Afghanistan? Does that prove that the US targets innocent civilians?

While more Palestinians have died in the conflict than Israelis, the overwhelming majority of innocents have been Israelis, when you factor out combatants and those Palestinians killed by other Palestinians.

Here is the correct way to analyze the figures.

An Engineered Tragedy

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: Czar
DBL,

Palestinian apologists have a hard time accepting the fact that Israeli military action directed at the Palestinians is ALWAYS in response to or in an effort to prevent Palestinian terrorists from killing Israelis.

http://mepc.org/public_asp/resources/mrates.asp
go through the months, the blue spikes are usualy suicide attacks
So far this month one suicide attack resulting in 10 isreali deaths, and on the other side, 82 palestinians killed

Please! Do you think so little of my intelligence that you would post meaningless statistics.

What if I told you that 2000 Afghanis and 100 Americans had died in Afghanistan? Does that prove that the US targets innocent civilians?

While more Palestinians have died in the conflict than Israelis, the overwhelming majority of innocents have been Israelis, when you factor out combatants and those Palestinians killed by other Palestinians.

Here is the correct way to analyze the figures.

An Engineered Tragedy

so all of those palestinians who died are what terrorist in your mind? Man you Israelis are full of it, stop the occupation and the violence will stop, is it hard to understand this? If you don't, well it's your funeral

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: Czar
DBL,

Palestinian apologists have a hard time accepting the fact that Israeli military action directed at the Palestinians is ALWAYS in response to or in an effort to prevent Palestinian terrorists from killing Israelis.

http://mepc.org/public_asp/resources/mrates.asp
go through the months, the blue spikes are usualy suicide attacks
So far this month one suicide attack resulting in 10 isreali deaths, and on the other side, 82 palestinians killed

Please! Do you think so little of my intelligence that you would post meaningless statistics.

What if I told you that 2000 Afghanis and 100 Americans had died in Afghanistan? Does that prove that the US targets innocent civilians?

While more Palestinians have died in the conflict than Israelis, the overwhelming majority of innocents have been Israelis, when you factor out combatants and those Palestinians killed by other Palestinians.

Here is the correct way to analyze the figures.

An Engineered Tragedy

so all of those palestinians who died are what terrorist in your mind? Man you Israelis are full of it, stop the occupation and the violence will stop, is it hard to understand this? If you don't, well it's your funeral

You must really understand the graphs and charts that were just posted to make a comment like that.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

so all of those palestinians who died are what terrorist in your mind? Man you Israelis are full of it, stop the occupation and the violence will stop, is it hard to understand this? If you don't, well it's your funeral

Clearly, reading comprehension is not one of your strong points. Read the study and then get back to me and tell me if it says that all Palestinians are terrorists. OK?

BTW, I'm not Israeli. I know its hard to believe that people other than Israelis could be supportive of a countries right to defend itself from terrorism.

Why would the violence stop if Israel pulled out of the territories when the major terror organization, Hamas, calls for the ELIMINATION of Israel? Who is telling you that the violence would stop? Palestinian moderates?..who have no control in Palestinian society and who fear death should they speak out against their own more radical Palestinians?

But anyway....you terrorist supporting Palestinians are all the same. It's obvious you have been corrupted since birth. Is it hard to understand that killing innocent women and children will not help you to achieve your goals. If you don't, well, better not run the next time you see an Apache. Just accept your imminent demise.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: rchiu


Oh, you are saying Israel never charge into Palestinian refugee camps, destroying homes and killing the innocent? All those are just made believe by the Palestinian propaganda. OKAY, if you say so.....

They do charge into refugee camps to locate the homes of suicide bombers. They then evacuate the families and give ample warning before the home is destroyed. There have been a couple of unfortunate incidents where elderly people have been killed. These were accidents and unintentional.

It's just outright laughable if you actually want us to belive that IDF knock on "terrorist's home" and ask politely for everyone to leave before they destory those homes, and it is "accident" that someone is killed. Yeah right, just like running over Rachel Corrie with a bulldozor was an accident. If IDF are so civilized, why do they stoppled UN from looking into Jenning operations.

And by the way, could destorying people's home in camps where people's life are already harsh piss few more people off and make a few more suicide bomber? That's not a crazy scenerio is it?

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: lozina
Well, the truth is, bigots/racists wouldn't exist if they could see the error of their ways. I believe shadohawk truly believes that Palestinians are evil and want only to destroy Israel, so he will seek any tidbit of trite, anemic evidence to support his beliefs.

this whole thread i have seen rule #1 of the left in action right from the start... totally disregard and minimalize evidence form the opposition, then make a personal attack to discredit him, preferably attempt to paint them out to be a racist...

the fact that arafat, and many religious and educational leaders propagate rasicm themselves if of course of no conseqeunce! brand the person pointing out what is going on as a racist instead! it worked for hitler and stalin!

Originally posted by: lozina
Anything will suffice as long as it supports his conclusion that Palestinians are basically "out-to-get the Jews". I understand why he may feel this way, as Palestinians have caused alot of harm to Israelis, but he needs to realize the wind blows in both directions. I seriously doubt any reasoning will convince him otherwise, and he serves an example as to why peace is so difficult in the region, as both sides have become so polarized and demonize eachother to such an extent.

actually i freely admit many times the israeli's go over the line. your making an ad-hom argument against a stereotype then trying to apply it to me, the only problem is i do not fit the stereotype your railing against. but your trying to put me there, contrary to what i actually DO say which makes me wonder if an honest dialog is even possible.

try to be objective and go back to the beginning of the thread. first the title "look what the palestinians are teaching their children" it is factually accurate as the images, articles and essays are taken from MAINSTREAM palestinian TV, form PA govt approved educational materiels, and from sermons delivered by many the religious leaders of the PA including sermons preached at the al agsa mosque.

i am not saying ALL palestinians are jew hating bigots. but many(especially in the PA leadership) are, much more than the "fringe group" would be apologists try to make it out as.


the problem is as soon as anyone points out what these people are doing he is attacked with a fervor that would make any extremist proud! branded a racist(assumed white of course in a racist act on the part of the assumer) and has sterotypes thrust upon them in the typical "kill the messenger" fashion. this is no philosophical assumption on my part, this very thread is proof of what i am saying!

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: lozina
Well, the truth is, bigots/racists wouldn't exist if they could see the error of their ways. I believe shadohawk truly believes that Palestinians are evil and want only to destroy Israel, so he will seek any tidbit of trite, anemic evidence to support his beliefs.

this whole thread i have seen rule #1 of the left in action right from the start... totally disregard and minimalize evidence form the opposition, then make a personal attack to discredit him, preferably attempt to paint them out to be a racist...

the fact that arafat, and many religious and educational leaders propagate rasicm themselves if of course of no conseqeunce! brand the person pointing out what is going on as a racist instead! it worked for hitler and stalin!

Originally posted by: lozina
Anything will suffice as long as it supports his conclusion that Palestinians are basically "out-to-get the Jews". I understand why he may feel this way, as Palestinians have caused alot of harm to Israelis, but he needs to realize the wind blows in both directions. I seriously doubt any reasoning will convince him otherwise, and he serves an example as to why peace is so difficult in the region, as both sides have become so polarized and demonize eachother to such an extent.

actually i freely admit many times the israeli's go over the line. your making an ad-hom argument against a stereotype then trying to apply it to me, the only problem is i do not fit the stereotype your railing against. but your trying to put me there, contrary to what i actually DO say which makes me wonder if an honest dialog is even possible.

try to be objective and go back to the beginning of the thread. first the title "look what the palestinians are teaching their children" it is factually accurate as the images, articles and essays are taken from MAINSTREAM palestinian TV, form PA govt approved educational materiels, and from sermons delivered by many the religious leaders of the PA including sermons preached at the al agsa mosque.

i am not saying ALL palestinians are jew hating bigots. but many(especially in the PA leadership) are, much more than the "fringe group" would be apologists try to make it out as.


the problem is as soon as anyone points out what these people are doing he is attacked with a fervor that would make any extremist proud! branded a racist(assumed white of course in a racist act on the part of the assumer) and has sterotypes thrust upon them in the typical "kill the messenger" fashion. this is no philosophical assumption on my part, this very thread is proof of what i am saying!

Yeah, you are really objective and the tilte "look what the palestinians are teaching their children" is factually accurate. In your title, you are not saying 10% of the palestinians, 20% of the palestinians, you are saying "the palestinians", which includes the entire population of palestinians. How much do you want to wager that I can find many Palestinians who do not share the view of fighting Israelis with violance? Do you really believe it is factually correct that the entire Palestinian poplutions believes in violance?

And another thing, you really do believe that PA hates Jews because of bigotry? and it has nothing to do with Israelis taking over their land, destroying their homes, putting thusands into refugee camps, arrest and kill people without due processes? BTW, due process defined in US constitution as follows in case you are wondering:

-Right to a fair and public trial conducted in a competent manner
-Right to be present at the trial
-Right to an impartial jury
-Right to be heard in one's own defense
-Laws must be written so that a reasonable person can understand what is criminal behavior

 

[Ornery]

"What would you tell them when their school was destroyed and the place they worshipped was detroyed?"

Why, I'd strap a bomb on them, and send them to kill as many civilians as possible, of course!

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
i am not saying ALL palestinians are jew hating bigots. but many(especially in the PA leadership) are, much more than the "fringe group" would be apologists try to make it out as.

Originally posted by: rchiu
Yeah, you are really objective and the tilte "look what the palestinians are teaching their children" is factually accurate. In your title, you are not saying 10% of the palestinians, 20% of the palestinians, you are saying "the palestinians", which includes the entire population of palestinians. How much do you want to wager that I can find many Palestinians who do not share the view of fighting Israelis with violance? Do you really believe it is factually correct that the entire Palestinian poplutions believes in violance?

and i thought i had cleared this up... in my preceeding quote... oh well, keep ignoring what i really am saying to pound the straw man.

Originally posted by: rchiu
And another thing, you really do believe that PA hates Jews because of bigotry? and it has nothing to do with Israelis taking over their land, destroying their homes, putting thusands into refugee camps, arrest and kill people without due processes? BTW, due process defined in US constitution as follows in case you are wondering:

-Right to a fair and public trial conducted in a competent manner
-Right to be present at the trial
-Right to an impartial jury
-Right to be heard in one's own defense
-Laws must be written so that a reasonable person can understand what is criminal behavior

first question..yes MANY do that fact is obvious to most. and like wise for the israelis...as i have repreatedly said.

have you noticed yet your tactic of berating me for using the term "palestinians" in the title is renedered meaningless by your doing the same with the term "israelis"? is it somehow different when you do it? or are you counting on me using the context of your post to determine which "israelis" you are referring to? if you are...why not extend me the same courtesy?

could it be you are using "israeli" the same way you percieve me using "palestinian" even though i come right out and say you are incorect in doing so?

 

[Aimster]

Palestine has no army. In their eyes they are fighting a war. Just like the proud Americans who love this country, the Palestinian people love their country just as much. Now suppose United States was occupied by Germany. Now also suppose that we have no army like we do today, but instead all we have are bombs and guns that are no match for the invading tanks. You have no idea why they are there and all the reasons they are there are way before your time. You see your friends die and your family is suffering because they cannot return back to work because the Germans refuse them to leave. You happen to see these tanks coming down your street pointing their guns at you and your neighbors and you see a kid walk up to the tank and throw a rock at the tank and then you see the tank open fire on the kid. German soldiers from time to time break down your door to do a search for any "militants" who might be opposing their occupation and fighting for them to leave. Who knows what happens when they enter your house if they break anything or not, but one can only imagine.

What would you do to have the Germans leave? The U.S is not like it is today, people are poor there are no jobs and you have foreign people telling you what to do on your land. Their is no government in place and the ones that claim power will not be overthrown because they fight for what you have grown to hate.

What happens to these poor children when they have no family structure? Who do they turn to? How can you have a strong family structure in a country that is very poor where people are constantly dying? You see your family suffering and you want to do something about it. In their eyes they are fighting a war. In our eyes they are simply being terrorist.

The so called ?militants? (soldiers the Palestinians call them) are the ones who are promising change. Change is the end of the Israeli occupation. How do you get them out? The answer is by destroying their land and their people. They don?t see innocent people as being innocent. They see them as part of the problem. The problem that has destroyed their way of life.

(The above is not my opinion. A way a Palestinian would look at it)

None of us on this forum know how it is like to be a Palestinian. We have a King?s life compared to how they live, even the ones of us that live in a trailer or still use the old Pentium MMX.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
i am not saying ALL palestinians are jew hating bigots. but many(especially in the PA leadership) are, much more than the "fringe group" would be apologists try to make it out as.

Originally posted by: rchiu
Yeah, you are really objective and the tilte "look what the palestinians are teaching their children" is factually accurate. In your title, you are not saying 10% of the palestinians, 20% of the palestinians, you are saying "the palestinians", which includes the entire population of palestinians. How much do you want to wager that I can find many Palestinians who do not share the view of fighting Israelis with violance? Do you really believe it is factually correct that the entire Palestinian poplutions believes in violance?

and i thought i had cleared this up... in my preceeding quote... oh well, keep ignoring what i really am saying to pound the straw man.

Originally posted by: rchiu
And another thing, you really do believe that PA hates Jews because of bigotry? and it has nothing to do with Israelis taking over their land, destroying their homes, putting thusands into refugee camps, arrest and kill people without due processes? BTW, due process defined in US constitution as follows in case you are wondering:

-Right to a fair and public trial conducted in a competent manner
-Right to be present at the trial
-Right to an impartial jury
-Right to be heard in one's own defense
-Laws must be written so that a reasonable person can understand what is criminal behavior

first question..yes MANY do that fact is obvious to most. and like wise for the israelis...as i have repreatedly said.

have you noticed yet your tactic of berating me for using the term "palestinians" in the title is renedered meaningless by your doing the same with the term "israelis"? is it somehow different when you do it? or are you counting on me using the context of your post to determine which "israelis" you are referring to? if you are...why not extend me the same courtesy?

could it be you are using "israeli" the same way you percieve me using "palestinian" even though i come right out and say you are incorect in doing so?

Hehe, that's where you are wrong. When I said Israeli, it is accurate because it is the Israeli army that does all the destruction following the order from Israeli government that is elected by the Israeli people. In another word, Israeli army, police or government represents Israel people and when they do something wrong, the Israeli people do something wrong. So it is important for Israeli people to understand that and elect officials that truly represent them.

On the other hand, Hamas and other extremist group that carry out suicide bombing were not elected by the Palestinian people. They acted on their own and Palestinian people should not be blamed for those extremist group's action. The elected official, the PA never supported Hamas and the violent confrontation. They officially condemned many of the suicide bombing carried out by the extremist. And that is the reason it is inaccurate to say "the Palestinian teach their kids violence confrontation blah blah blah."

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Hehe, that's where you are wrong. When I said Israeli, it is accurate because it is the Israeli army that does all the destruction following the order from Israeli government that is elected by the Israeli people. In another word, Israeli army, police or government represents Israel people and when they do something wrong, the Israeli people do something wrong. So it is important for Israeli people to understand that and elect officials that truly represent them.

i figured as much through the context..i beleive i mentioned that....yes..i did

so following the same logic as you then it is perfectly acceptable for me to use "palestinian" the same way referencing the PA? if so why your objections?

Originally posted by: rchiu
On the other hand, Hamas and other extremist group that carry out suicide bombing were not elected by the Palestinian people. They acted on their own and Palestinian people should not be blamed for those extremist group's action. The elected official, the PA never supported Hamas and the violent confrontation. They officially condemned many of the suicide bombing carried out by the extremist. And that is the reason it is inaccurate to say "the Palestinian teach their kids violence confrontation blah blah blah."

ROFL!!! that makes no sense whatsover.

if it was only hamas doing the terrorism you would still not have a point because you are ignoring the fact that the PA itself is enouraging terrorism through the media and the PA educational system. as per the example i provided. arafat(the egyptian) himself is a murderer anda plane hijacker.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
ROFL!!! that makes no sense whatsover.

if it was only hamas doing the terrorism you would still not have a point because you are ignoring the fact that the PA itself is enouraging terrorism through the media and the PA educational system. as per the example i provided. arafat(the egyptian) himself is a murderer anda plane hijacker.

Yeap, now we go 360 and come back to you spewing garbage. Where is this FACT that PA officially encouraging terrorsim? and when I say fact, it means official statement from the government and evidance that they supply Hamas with material support. Just look at the site you refers to, it mentions Palestinian Authority in every single sentance, sounding like PA sanctioned everything. But there is no mention who said what and if that is the real government position on the issue. Being broadcast on TV doesn't mean jack. Fox News spews garbage everyday and they don't necessary represent the US official position or US people.

Arafat is another debate for another day. At the very least, he was recognized for his effort in coming to the negotiation table and work on a peace plan. That's more effort then Sharon ever gives.

 

[Ornery]

"What would you do to have the Germans leave?"

I wouldn't purposely blow up innocent civilians. That's unconscionable, utterly reprehensible, unforgivable, and simply NOT an option for civilized humans.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
ROFL!!! that makes no sense whatsover.

if it was only hamas doing the terrorism you would still not have a point because you are ignoring the fact that the PA itself is enouraging terrorism through the media and the PA educational system. as per the example i provided. arafat(the egyptian) himself is a murderer anda plane hijacker.

Yeap, now we go 360 and come back to you spewing garbage. Where is this FACT that PA officially encouraging terrorsim? and when I say fact, it means official statement from the government and evidance that they supply Hamas with material support. Just look at the site you refers to, it mentions Palestinian Authority in every single sentance, sounding like PA sanctioned everything. But there is no mention who said what and if that is the real government position on the issue. Being broadcast on TV doesn't mean jack. Fox News spews garbage everyday and they don't necessary represent the US official position or US people.

Arafat is another debate for another day. At the very least, he was recognized for his effort in coming to the negotiation table and work on a peace plan. That's more effort then Sharon ever gives.

well said!

 

[replicator]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: drewshin
this is what americans teach their kids:

Looking for 10-20 year olds

i understand what your trying to do (ignore the point and camouflage by producing counterpoint) but it does not quite work. i do not condone the KKK (for obvious reasons! LOL!) in fact i would liken them to the palestinian extremist who teach racism and genocide.


you lefties just do not have a strategy for handling a non-white conservative do you?

So why don't you edit your thread title to state Palestinian extremists instead of Palestinians.

because the extremists control the palestinian government(from arafat on down), and schools which spread this. it is not a "small percentage" of palestinians, it is the mainstream.

You seem to consider anybody who doesn't support the occupation as being an extremist. Of course many Palestinians are not chummy with their occupiers, who would be? But all polls of Pals have shown that the majority wants a 2 state solution.

Anyhow, your arguments are nonsense, as is the thread. Nothing but hate.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Yeap, now we go 360 and come back to you spewing garbage. Where is this FACT that PA officially encouraging terrorsim? and when I say fact, it means official statement from the government and evidance that they supply Hamas with material support. Just look at the site you refers to, it mentions Palestinian Authority in every single sentance, sounding like PA sanctioned everything. But there is no mention who said what and if that is the real government position on the issue. Being broadcast on TV doesn't mean jack. Fox News spews garbage everyday and they don't necessary represent the US official position or US people.

Arafat is another debate for another day. At the very least, he was recognized for his effort in coming to the negotiation table and work on a peace plan. That's more effort then Sharon ever gives.

well said![/quote]

the facts were provided in the links. you can do your best to spin it to no avail. one of them was arafat himself, also examples of schoolbooks that are under the jurisdiction of the PA.

again your accusations are not based on what i have actually said, it seems the tactics of some never change.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: replicator

You seem to consider anybody who doesn't support the occupation as being an extremist. Of course many Palestinians are not chummy with their occupiers, who would be? But all polls of Pals have shown that the majority wants a 2 state solution.

Anyhow, your arguments are nonsense, as is the thread. Nothing but hate.

ROFL! i see basic reading comprehension combined with name calling are still par for the course for the some lefties. whatever makes you feel better about yourself.



BTW who is it exactly i "hate"?

 

[geecee]

[so all of those palestinians who died are what terrorist in your mind? Man you Israelis are full of it, stop the occupation and the violence will stop, is it hard to understand this? If you don't, well it's your funeral

You are truly naive if you believe this. Do you honestly believe that a few mile stretch of land is the reason behind all ot this. I generally don't like to post in politics (just stick to tech stuff and hot deals ), but the stupidity/naivete of the above quote just really moved me. From reading the many posts here, I can see why there will almost never be peace there. Until the children of both sides are taught different attitudes and respect, and they carry that forward in time to the point where they have become the leaders of their respective nations, the violence will never stop. Of course, these children will be exposed to endless propaganda and hatred, and will never arrive at said point unscathed. This thus creates and propagates the endless cycle of hatred, violence and death that defines the region, and will continue to define it.

Both sides perpetuate the conflict. Without getting into the political/religious issues (which is impossible, I know), let's just look at one simple fact - the Palestinians live in abject poverty. If Israel supplied them aid, and helped them get back on their feet and rebuild their society, do you not think that would help to change the Palestinian attitude toward them (instead of firing missiles into and/or bulldozing their settlements/shanty towns, and shuttling new settlers out to disputed areas on a monthly basis)? If the Palestinian "leadership" focused more attention on feeding, clothing, educating and improving the living conditions of its own people, and less attention on making "martyrs" out of ideologically brainwashed teenagers and killing the "Zionist occupiers", would that not be a positive step forward? The fact of the matter is that Israel doesn't really care to help and the Palestinian leaders would rather have the mob's attention focused on hating and blaming Israel, rather than having the attention on themselves and why they've done nothing to help their own people. It's a vicious cycle that may never be broken.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"What would you do to have the Germans leave?"

I wouldn't purposely blow up innocent civilians. That's unconscionable, utterly reprehensible, unforgivable, and simply NOT an option for civilized humans.

Suicide bombers = hundreds and for the sake of arguement let us say thousands. Palestinian people = millions. We are talking a small percentage.

People who do the act of suicide are selfish people and feel like that have nothing else left in their life to live for. Why do you think Columbine happend? These kids were picked on and they reached the point where they became insane and they took out the people who were causing them harm as well them with it. Same reason why murder suicide happens.. their life sucks and they dont want anyone else left behind..

Suicide bombers have nothing in their life and have no family. The ones with families almost always never know about their actions until it is too late. Of course they are going to praise their son/daugther for what they did because the people around them are cheering and what best than to think of your kid actions as good rather than bad. When was the last time you saw a Hamas leader's son blowing himself up or even a leader for that matter. They find innocent children and feed them lies. Turning a religion into evil when the religion is very peaceful and taking the context of that holly book and making it fit their goal.

Like I said our life here is a million times better than the life over there. You cannot even imagine what it is like to live over there.
Imagine living in a poor ghetto neighborhood.. you will most likely find gangs. What do gangs do? Kill innocent people.
Poverty creates violence.. and some will disagree with me. When you have nothing to live for who knows how you will behave. They have nothing and no future. What future do the Palestinian people have? none.