What if there was no God?

[Cerpin Taxt]

I can accept that when physicists tell me that we got a universe from nothing, that they could be correct.

I don't know of any modern and respected physicist who would suggest that we "got a universe from nothing" -- although I will concede that there are likely some simplifications which could be reasonably popularized as such.

Even if there is more to the story, and of course there is, I am willing to accept that and grant it.
What I cannot simply accept or grant, is that the capacity for experience bounced out of nothing in an arbitrary way. That crosses a line for me and I can't accept it at the moment.

I understand your reasoning, and given your starting assumptions, your conclusions aren't unreasonable. I think you have poor starting assumptions, however.

 

[moonbogg]

It didn't. It took billions of years of Evolution and some great number of gradual steps to reach a state where Self Consciousness began to exist.

The capacity for it did. I don't care that there is a physical, natural explanation for it. I'm sure there is. The fact that it is even possible is just about enough for me. I used to shrug it off but I can't do that any more.

@Cerpin. This is real simple dude. Experience exists and that makes me think there is a God.

 

[sandorski]

The capacity for it did. I don't care that there is a physical, natural explanation for it. I'm sure there is. The fact that it is even possible is just about enough for me. I used to shrug it off but I can't do that any more.

@Cerpin. This is real simple dude. Experience exists and that makes me think there is a God.

Sounds like you simply Want it to be true that there's more to it.

 

[moonbogg]

Sounds like you simply Want it to be true that there's more to it.

This is where we stop I think.

I replied the best I could to the OPs topic, but I can't add anything further.

 

[hrsetrdr]

I think this is a good exercise to examine one's own biases and preconceived ideas.

I'm inviting anyone that believes a god exists to describe the ways that they think the world would be different if instead there was no god.

I realize that this is a bit of a lopsided burden on theists, so atheists can feel free to respond with their ideas of what the world would be like if a god really existed.

Happy Friday!

If there were no God then there would be no creation, only 'natural selection'. The World would be much more peaceful, as the Human race would not have developed, but instead would be a group of organic protiens sloshing around in the ocean.

 

[sandorski]

This is where we stop I think.

I replied the best I could to the OPs topic, but I can't add anything further.

Why else would one choose to ignore evidence for something, preferring that which has no evidence instead?

 

[MrColin]

If there were no god(s), the world would look exactly like it does.

 

[Retro Rob]

Why "special"? Why not "fluke"?

Look, we can spend pages arguing circles about "designed", "fluke" or why not this or that or whatever and not get anywhere...so I'd like to take the discussion here:

OK, the world would be completely different without God or the belief in God, in my opinion...and that's not to say it would be better or worse. As some like to posit, would have Galileo been persecuted or put on house arrest, which may have had or had not stagnated scientific discovery?

Would Isaac Newton had spent more time investigating how the world worked instead of spending a good deal of his time studying the Bible and looking for "hidden messages"? If so, how much more advanced scientifically would humanity be? Both Galileo and Newton were believers, so this begs the question if whether or not they would have been scientists to begin with had there been no God, as Newton saw God as a "masterful creator" which probably fueled his love of science.

Or a better question would be if religion would exist, as religion has had a TREMENDOUS affect on the world down through the centuries. Would the Bible exists, Koran, etc? If not, how would the world had been?

If one wants to examine if the world would be the same without God, one would probably have to examine the effect God (or belief in) had on society, and also scrutinize both the positive and negative effects God has on humanity both in the past and present.

 

[massmedia]

The 1st question to ask is would would the gods be pschopathic sadistic assholes?

If yes, then what you have today is what you'd expect.
If no, then what you would expect would be a vegetarian planet with no disease... accidents still allowed to make things interesting.

 

[RandomWords]

Look, we can spend pages arguing circles about "designed", "fluke" or why not this or that or whatever and not get anywhere...so I'd like to take the discussion here: OK, the world would be completely different without God or the belief in God, in my opinion...and that's not to say it would be better or worse. As some like to posit, would have Galileo been persecuted or put on house arrest, which may have had or had not stagnated scientific discovery? Would Isaac Newton had spent more time investigating how the world worked instead of spending a good deal of his time studying the Bible and looking for "hidden messages"? If so, how much more advanced scientifically would humanity be? Both Galileo and Newton were believers, so this begs the question if whether or not they would have been scientists to begin with had there been no God, as Newton saw God as a "masterful creator" which probably fueled his love of science. Or a better question would be if religion would exist, as religion has had a TREMENDOUS affect on the world down through the centuries. Would the Bible exists, Koran, etc? If not, how would the world had been? If one wants to examine if the world would be the same without God, one would probably have to examine the effect God (or belief in) had on society, and also scrutinize both the positive and negative effects God has on humanity both in the past and present.

This is a good point - but if there were no belief in God - I still claim a belief in God would arise - either that or they would worship something (let's say King X); Thus, in the same sort of effect, Newton would study the writing of King X, Galileo would still be persecuted for going against something King X claimed, Newton and Galileo would probably still have become scientists.

My premise is that with no belief in God - a belief in something would have arisen (if going back into the past) and the events would largely have remained the same - because a lot of motivation for things, though it seems to have come from the "belief in God", isn't truly strictly because of that religion/belief or religion period. If the belief in God was wiped out today, in a couple years something else will rise for people to put their belief into.

However, I loved reading your post and it is a complete possibility as well - just taking into account that people remain largely the same, act largely the same regardless of a lot of things - so that the world would still progress as it had done.

 

[inachu]

If there was a God, the Avacado seed would have been made smaller.

If there is no God, how are there so many species of life?

New island that is naturally quarantined is starting to experience various life forms and the different species are sprouting up all the time.

You can read more from this url:

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...=2&ie=UTF-8&q=new volcanic new animal species

 

[Retro Rob]

This is a good point - but if there were no belief in God - I still claim a belief in God would arise - either that or they would worship something (let's say King X);

I agree, but really, you're just making an in-place substitution of God for "King X". Would doctrine and prescriptions stay the same? Probably not, and this is why I think our world would be different to some degree.

Making a world without God would entail changing the course of history because God-based doctrine would probably be different than what we currently have. There would be no Moses, no Muhammad, no Jesus...it would likely be totally different in that regard.

Thus, in the same sort of effect, Newton would study the writing of King X, Galileo would still be persecuted for going against something King X claimed, Newton and Galileo would probably still have become scientists.

This is granting that all other things remain exactly the same, and why this is an error on your part.

However, I loved reading your post and it is a complete possibility as well - just taking into account that people remain largely the same, act largely the same regardless of a lot of things - so that the world would still progress as it had done.

Thanks, but I think you should know that I believe that if God doesn't exist, then life doesn't exist, nor does the Universe.

Speaking philosophically, though, I think that the lack of God removes an ultimate reason for human beings to exist, so without this reason, there wouldn't be intelligent beings...just a planet ruled by animals - no intelligence, no science, no nothing. Just a pointless existence.

I think the reason we have the ability to hope, to imagine, to see things bigger than ourselves and ponder the metaphysical is because there is a God in an abstract reality.

I believe all these things would be meaningless and no longer a part of the human experience if a being that would fit into these facets of humanity didn't exist.

 

[RandomWords]

This is granting that all other things remain exactly the same, and why this is an error on your part.

Yes, I replaced God with King X - but that is the likely scenario that would happen without a God, with humans being humans as we know them, some other "God" doctrine would arise and they would have their own "creation" myth as you see with the countless stories out there today.

Not really an error - the only thing I keep the same is humans behaving and acting as the humans we know - which is what you did in your prediction as well - however even if the doctrine were different, though as it evolved over time I think it would look very similar to the one today, it is likely that Galileo and Newton would still question it - for that is who they are at their core and their lives would have been spent similarly. There still might be some minor changes - such as we might fly around in a Blimp or someone else might be in power today - but overall, the major events would probably still have occurred.

I believe there is a God as well - but I still conclude, if the "belief in God" was wiped out - humans remaining the same intellectually and solely based upon something as evolution - that the world would still be very similar to this one... because even starting with no "belief in God" eventually there would be a "belief in God" unless you changed a major component of being human. In which case this would no longer be about how the world would be different if God didn't exist - but how the world would be different if we changed a component of being human. This would be the case if it could be 100% proven that there is no God today - in a couple hundred years - the belief would revive and that proof would start to be questioned. The same with God - if 100% proof was given, with the added addition that God did not actively play a role after that - doubt would begin and many people would question it and create other Gods or say there is no God, etc.

Thus, if we change a component of being human - no one could predict how the world would be different, because humans as we know them today, wouldn't exist and we would be a totally different type of life form - so in a way - I agree with you.

 

[OverVolt]

..

 

[Paul98]

Morals of these who say they come from God wouldn't change if there was no god or even if they didn't believe in a god. We already know they only follow what they agree with in the Bible. The Bible is simply an excuse. If they didn't believe in a god they would simply have another justification for what they believe. Though they wouldn't have been brainwashed by religion so would have come to more reasonable beliefs.

 

[MtnMan]

I'm inviting anyone that believes a god exists to describe the ways that they think the world would be different if instead there was no god.

People would make up gods, tell tall tales about how wonderful they were and worship their imaginary sky daddy, then criticize, hate, and kill those that didn't agree with them.

Oh wait.....

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Look, we can spend pages arguing circles about "designed", "fluke" or why not this or that or whatever and not get anywhere...

Quite frankly this reads to me like you'd rather not confront that question and the legitimate answers to it. The question in the OP was intended to uncover these specific kinds of biases. It is very telling that you would much rather dodge that issue and instead focus on issues which really have nothing to do with the question that was originally asked.

so I'd like to take the discussion here:

OK, the world would be completely different without God or the belief in God, in my opinion...and that's not to say it would be better or worse. As some like to posit, would have Galileo been persecuted or put on house arrest, which may have had or had not stagnated scientific discovery?

Would Isaac Newton had spent more time investigating how the world worked instead of spending a good deal of his time studying the Bible and looking for "hidden messages"? If so, how much more advanced scientifically would humanity be? Both Galileo and Newton were believers, so this begs the question if whether or not they would have been scientists to begin with had there been no God, as Newton saw God as a "masterful creator" which probably fueled his love of science.

These behaviors have to do with whether or not a belief in a god exists, and really do not depend on whether or not a god exists at all.

{snip}

If one wants to examine if the world would be the same without God, one would probably have to examine the effect God (or belief in) had on society, and also scrutinize both the positive and negative effects God has on humanity both in the past and present.

What I hoped my original question would produce is descriptions of the ways that evidence could falsify the beliefs of a theist. Something along the lines of "If X were true, then we might conclude that no gods exist." It is interesting to me because I can readily produce any number of conceivable empirical facts that could strongly suggest that a god exists (i.e. that my position is false), and I know a fair number of atheists that could do likewise. I do not know of a comparable condition with the theists that I encounter on forums like this. They appear to be unable to conceive of any realistic empirical condition which could cause them to forgo their belief that a god exists.

This leads me to suppose that theistic belief is not based upon evidential or empirical reasoning, but instead socially and/or culturally programmed biases.

 

[inachu]

Instead of dancing around GOD by looking at the universe. Why not poke at GOD?

Let's send a wake up call to GOD. Let's use our greatest math wiz with phd,master degrees and lets do the following:

Lets each year shoot a nuke that flies into outer space and our first one lets explode it at the known center of the universe or what we think is the center.

Next lets just each year make a bomb that is bigger than the last one.

We just keep shooting them out all over the place at designated spots that will lead them like bread droppings to guide anyone out there to our doorstep.

Lets make sure the bombs that explode leave a tell tale signature that is different from the regular cosmic radiation.

 

[doubledeluxe]

We would have less wars based on religion and more wars based on money and power.

/thread

 

[Retro Rob]

These behaviors have to do with whether or not a belief in a god exists, and really do not depend on whether or not a god exists at all.

You're acting as if belief in God and God's actual are mutally exclusive -- I presented a situation is which the existence of God could be evident in our natrual ability to worship something higher than us.

Which God that is is irrelevant to that point, however, the fact that we have this inclination can be strong circumstantial evidence for the existence of a higher being of some sort, also given the fact that humans have always exhibiting religious behavior, the desire to be led, and the willingness to worship something. In other words, God left a very obvious footprint in our emotional, spiritual, and psychological makeup.

I will posit that God has given us these abilities to make it easier to accept and acknowledge his existence, albiet on our own accord, and without his forcing it on us in violation of the free-will given to us.

 

[inachu]

Morals of these who say they come from God wouldn't change if there was no god or even if they didn't believe in a god. We already know they only follow what they agree with in the Bible. The Bible is simply an excuse. If they didn't believe in a god they would simply have another justification for what they believe. Though they wouldn't have been brainwashed by religion so would have come to more reasonable beliefs.

Depending on your trained thought patterns of who or what GOD is.....

GOD can be anyone/anything any sex/no sex. GOD is not a personage but he/she could be if he wanted to. Even placing the name GOD not a good idea because placing a name on an abstract formulation of.... how can I say it..... not just an idea but the name itself evokes the creation wellspring of life itself.

It would be an insult to think GOD would just be a person and you feel insulted to think such a being exists?

But even my own description does not honor enough GOD enough.

Because the one entity of GOD is in all the universe and you and me.

NAMASTE - saying hello to the god inside of you because god is all over the place.

If warpspeed from star trek was true then at warp 10 I myself would then become a god.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Lets each year shoot a nule that flies into outer space and our first one lets explode it at the known center of the universe or what we think is the center.

I know this is a joke post, but I just wanted to point out that there is no center of the universe.

 

[sm625]

If God did not exist it would be necessary to invent him. I heard that in a song once. I think Voltaire said it first though.

God is certain to exist; either now, or, if not now, then in the future after an unknown period of advancement. It cannot be otherwise, due simply to entropy. Increasing disorder = increasing chaos = increasing opportunity = increasing intelligence = increasing resources = increasing growth = increasing expansion, etc

 

[schmuckley]

eww..Doggie poo

 

[soulcougher73]

Hmm..

If there was no God, then the world would probably be worse off, perhaps a lot worse since belief in God has tremendous influence on the actions/inactions of people who believe.

What the existence of God affects more profoundly, in my opinion, is the outlook humans have on the future of the world, and of their own lives. This outlook affects people's happiness and well-being. Without it, the future becomes just nothing but a pointless existence, and hence, there is no ultimate reason for anything -- no reason to do good, etc, no reason to not kill your neighbor and take his food if you need it.

To me, its like having a job...the purpose of a job for many people is to provide basic needs. Without this purpose, there is no reason to go to work everyday and perfrom well, so I'd have no incentive or reason to treat my bosses and co-workers with respect and dignity.

I think this analogy can be applied to a world with/without God. God gives ultimate purpose to a world, and takes it from a world without his existence.

This is interesting, though.

Ouch. Glad i dont need god to find a reason to do good and a reason to exist etc. That must suck.