what do people think about candace owens george floyd video?

[dank69]

The grievance has been that they're being killed because of the white supremacy. Owens is pointing out that black people make up a disproportionate amount of violent crime, so it is expected that more of them will be killed by cops. This is easily seen with men vs. women death by cop or the varying rate between racial groups with Asians being the least likely.



That can't be how it was calculated. That wouldn't even be a probability difference. It was probably utilizing the number of cops in US and a part of the black population interacting with police (which would be of course much higher) vs. the number of each group that died. Mind you, this is about unarmed black people, which may have been adjusted further i.e. not all "unarmed" people were doing nothing (e.g. trying to take taser away will be classified as "unarmed").

Define "disproportionate." I believe what you are calling disproportionate can actually be classified as "statistically insignificant."

 

[Maxima1]

Define "disproportionate." I believe what you are calling disproportionate can actually be classified as "statistically insignificant."

Seriously?

QuickStats: Age-Adjusted Rates for Homicides, by Race/Ethnicity — Unit

During 1999–2014, a general decline in homicide trends for non-Hispanic white, non-Hispanic black, and Hispanic populations occurred, followed by a significant increase in the rates for all three grou

www.cdc.gov

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Who is Candice Owens?
Seriously who the fuck is she?

I know a guy who said Corona Virus was made by Liberal Scientists to undermine Trumps trade deal.
Should I post his rants?

 

[HumblePie]

I don't disagree with everything she says. So, for example, I see her point that there is a difference between condemning what the police did to Floyd and deifying Floyd the person as a martyr. I was aware of Floyd's extensive rap sheet for violent offenses and multiple incarcerations.

However, the unsourced statistics that she cites toward the end are ridiculous. Let's take the one you mention above, that police are 18x more likely to be killed by black people than black people are to be killed by police. This literally cannot be true.

Last year, 49 police were killed in the US as a result of "felonious acts."

FBI Releases 2019 Statistics on Law Enforcement Officers Killed in the Line of Duty | Federal Bureau of Investigation

According to statistics reported to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019. Of these, 48 officers died as a result of felonious acts, and 41 officers died in accidents.

www.fbi.gov

The stats there don't give the ethnic identity of the killers. However, since blacks are said the be responsible for 40% of US murders overall, let's bend over backwards for her and say that 50% of those 49 cops were killed by blacks. So say 25 cops killed by blacks. For her "18x" number to be correct, that means the police killed 1.4 black people in all of 2019!

There are stats about how many blacks are killed by cops every year, but I'm not going to bother wasting my time looking them up, because we all know how absurd this is already. Her statistic is probably inverted.

She starts with a valid point but craps the bed toward the end of the video by using grossly inaccurate, likely made up, statistics when she tries to address the larger picture.

The 18x claim has been made for the 2015 year.

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/39880/is-a-police-officer-18x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-a-black-male-than-an-unarmed

However, it is a bit of math to arrive at it. It takes the amount of cops versus how many killed by black people cross compared to black civilian killed by cops against their population. It isn't the best statistic. Basically in 2015 there were 19 cops killed black civilians, and 75 black civilians killed by cops by guns. When you compare them per capita and ratio them, you get about an 18 times more likely number that a cop is more like to be killed by a black civilian than a cop is to kill a black civilian.

I personally hate bad per capita comparisons when they are bad. It is a number, but relatively meaningless because it should be based on interactions over criminal activity. That unfortunately, isn't really tracked and hard to use as a statistic for any argument. What is true is that black people have far more interactions as a whole and per capita than other races with police over criminal interactions. More so if talking with violent crime or anything requiring an arrest be made which is usually felonious in nature for most places. As for misdemeanors or shit like traffic tickets, I don't think there is any real good data to use there for that. There are areas of the country where that is true and areas where that isn't. There isn't consistent national data to use on that though as far as I am aware.

While it may be an accurate statement, it is a number designed to incite. Which is used a lot around here for both sides of the argument. Since the chance of either a black civilian killing a cop or a cop killing a black civilian overall across the nation is a very low number, the usage of that stat is just stupid. The stat that people should care about is how often cops do kill anyone. It's relatively low period in a given year. Total killings, not just by shootings, are around a 1000 a year for awhile now. Considering how many people there are in this country, how many criminal interactions happen with cops on a yearly basis, and comparing those deaths with other forms of deaths, it really is something quite amazing to for national level protests and riots against. She did sort of say that in the comparison to doctor related deaths, but she was going with everything she could.

Before any idiot up here is saying I am trying to dismiss police misconduct here, I am going to put a stop to that. While it is a low priority on the totem pole, it is a problem. Police abuse and a system designed to protect them is a bad thing. It does need thoughtful and proper responses to the problem.

 

[dank69]

Seriously?

QuickStats: Age-Adjusted Rates for Homicides, by Race/Ethnicity — Unit

During 1999–2014, a general decline in homicide trends for non-Hispanic white, non-Hispanic black, and Hispanic populations occurred, followed by a significant increase in the rates for all three grou

www.cdc.gov

Yes, seriously. You are proposing that cops should be more wary of black people because black people pose more of a threat to them. That chart does not tell us exactly how much more of a danger they supposedly are. Let me know when you get done crunching those numbers.

 

[cytg111]

Nah he's saying the same as her. Blacks need to uplift themselves educate themselves stay out of crime and make a change. Its true that they are the only race that puts thugs as heros and role models

Your (bolded by me) statement above is as ignorant as it is unwelcome on our forums.

Perknose
Forum Director

Easy now, your racism is showing.

 

[cytg111]

http is a buggy protocol

 

[alien42]

Who is Candice Owens?
Seriously who the fuck is she?

I know a guy who said Corona Virus was made by Liberal Scientists to undermine Trumps trade deal.
Should I post his rants?

apparently she inspires very fine people...

"The terrorist who committed the Christchurch mosque shootings produced a 'manifesto' in which he wrote that Owens had "influenced him above all."

Candace Owens - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Maxima1]

Yes, seriously. You are proposing that cops should be more wary of black people because black people pose more of a threat to them.

When you say black people, you mean young black males. It's all on video. And I can't take this expectation (i.e. they have to have same fear of everyone equally or it's incredible racism) seriously when there's such an absurd fear of police that the race baiters irrationally believe is justified while condemning police as white supremacists for not being perfect.

Dashcam video shows gun battle between 2 Pennsylvania State Police troopers and motorist on Route 33

The video shows a routine traffic stop by state police that turned into a frantic gun battle along Route 33. Its publication represents a rare instance in Pennsylvania in which police dash camera v…

www.mcall.com

That chart does not tell us exactly how much more of a danger they supposedly are. Let me know when you get done crunching those numbers.

They have wildly higher violent crime rates other than homicide as well. Is it not true for gender and the racial difference for males going from Asians and up? What evidence is there that it breaks for black people? Looking at the number of deaths by cop per year, the vast majority of black death by cop weren't unarmed doing nothing. It amounts to almost single digits. It's almost Florida lightning death numbers.

 

[dank69]

When you say black people, you mean young black males. It's all on video. And I can't take this expectation (i.e. they have to have same fear of everyone equally or it's incredible racism) seriously when there's such an absurd fear of police that the race baiters irrationally believe is justified while condemning police as white supremacists for not being perfect.

Dashcam video shows gun battle between 2 Pennsylvania State Police troopers and motorist on Route 33

The video shows a routine traffic stop by state police that turned into a frantic gun battle along Route 33. Its publication represents a rare instance in Pennsylvania in which police dash camera v…

www.mcall.com

They have wildly higher violent crime rates other than homicide as well. Is it not true for gender and the racial difference for males going from Asians and up? What evidence is there that it breaks for black people? Looking at the number of deaths by cop per year, the vast majority of black death by cop weren't unarmed doing nothing. It amounts to almost single digits. It's almost Florida lightning death numbers.

Do the math or STFU.

 

[woolfe9998]

The 18x claim has been made for the 2015 year.

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/39880/is-a-police-officer-18x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-a-black-male-than-an-unarmed

However, it is a bit of math to arrive at it. It takes the amount of cops versus how many killed by black people cross compared to black civilian killed by cops against their population. It isn't the best statistic. Basically in 2015 there were 19 cops killed black civilians, and 75 black civilians killed by cops by guns. When you compare them per capita and ratio them, you get about an 18 times more likely number that a cop is more like to be killed by a black civilian than a cop is to kill a black civilian.

I personally hate bad per capita comparisons when they are bad. It is a number, but relatively meaningless because it should be based on interactions over criminal activity. That unfortunately, isn't really tracked and hard to use as a statistic for any argument. What is true is that black people have far more interactions as a whole and per capita than other races with police over criminal interactions. More so if talking with violent crime or anything requiring an arrest be made which is usually felonious in nature for most places. As for misdemeanors or shit like traffic tickets, I don't think there is any real good data to use there for that. There are areas of the country where that is true and areas where that isn't. There isn't consistent national data to use on that though as far as I am aware.

While it may be an accurate statement, it is a number designed to incite. Which is used a lot around here for both sides of the argument. Since the chance of either a black civilian killing a cop or a cop killing a black civilian overall across the nation is a very low number, the usage of that stat is just stupid. The stat that people should care about is how often cops do kill anyone. It's relatively low period in a given year. Total killings, not just by shootings, are around a 1000 a year for awhile now. Considering how many people there are in this country, how many criminal interactions happen with cops on a yearly basis, and comparing those deaths with other forms of deaths, it really is something quite amazing to for national level protests and riots against. She did sort of say that in the comparison to doctor related deaths, but she was going with everything she could.

Before any idiot up here is saying I am trying to dismiss police misconduct here, I am going to put a stop to that. While it is a low priority on the totem pole, it is a problem. Police abuse and a system designed to protect them is a bad thing. It does need thoughtful and proper responses to the problem.

Before I even delve into this discussion, I want to point out something screamingly obvious. That article has to do with whether a cop is 18x more likely to be shot by a black man than an unarmed black man is to be shot by cops. IIRC cases where the victim is unarmed are around 7-8% of all police killings. If I'm remembering her video right, Candace Owens did not use the word "unarmed," which means the statistic she presented was WAY off just like I said.

Also, even if someone is technically armed, it doesn't always make the shoot justified. Laquan McDonald was armed with a knife, and was shot by officer Jason Van D**k in Chicago, who was tried and convicted of murder and sentenced to 25 years. Justly so.

 

[woolfe9998]

The grievance has been that they're being killed because of the white supremacy. Owens is pointing out that black people make up a disproportionate amount of violent crime, so it is expected that more of them will be killed by cops. This is easily seen with men vs. women death by cop or the varying rate between racial groups with Asians being the least likely.



That can't be how it was calculated. That wouldn't even be a probability difference. It was probably utilizing the number of cops in US and a part of the black population interacting with police (which would be of course much higher) vs. the number of each group that died. Mind you, this is about unarmed black people, which may have been adjusted further i.e. not all "unarmed" people were doing nothing (e.g. trying to take taser away will be classified as "unarmed").

Yes, if you see my post in response to the above, Owens seems to be trying to describe a statistic involving unarmed black people being shot, but Owens doesn't say that. She just says that police officers are 18.5 more likely to be killed by black people than black people are to be killed by police officers. Since over 90% of police killings involved armed victims, the distinction is huge, and her number is WAY off for what she described.

And again, the suspect being armed doesn't automatically make a shoot justified. The suspect may have a knife and be surrounded by 10 cops with guns drawn, and is not moving toward them when he is shot. The suspect may have a gun in his belt but make no move toward the gun and is shot anyway. While one who is unarmed may be actively kicking and punching the cops. It isn't about armed vs. unarmed. It's about justified vs. unjustified.

 

[HumblePie]

Before I even delve into this discussion, I want to point out something screamingly obvious. That article has to do with whether a cop is 18x more likely to be shot by a black man than an unarmed black man is to be shot by cops. IIRC cases where the victim is unarmed are around 7-8% of all police killings. If I'm remembering her video right, Candace Owens did not use the word "unarmed," which means the statistic she presented was WAY off just like I said.

Also, even if someone is technically armed, it doesn't always make the shoot justified. Laquan McDonald was armed with a knife, and was shot by officer Jason Van D**k in Chicago, who was tried and convicted of murder and sentenced to 25 years. Justly so.

Yep. As I said, it is a shitty statistic and one turning point usa likes to use a lot. It is a factual, but misleading statement. Not everything she said in the video was so misleading though. Lots of high profile people everywhere say stupid misleading shit. One bad point in her video doesn't discount the rest of the statements though. That would be a huge logic fallacy. Not saying you are doing it, but many around here will.

 

[woolfe9998]

Yep. As I said, it is a shitty statistic and one turning point usa likes to use a lot. It is a factual, but misleading statement. Not everything she said in the video was so misleading though. Lots of high profile people everywhere say stupid misleading shit. One bad point in her video doesn't discount the rest of the statements though. That would be a huge logic fallacy. Not saying you are doing it, but many around here will.

No, I agree that making a martyr out of Floyd isn't a good look for the black community. They can protest the injustice of the killing and the fact that racism was obviously a component of it, but making t-shirts and posters of Floyd isn't such a great idea. He was a career violent criminal who did several unforgivable things, and based on the presence of meth and fentanyl in his system that day, he may well not have been "getting his life back together" as some people have claimed.

But I think the statistics are important when it comes to issues like this. Too many people focus on individual cases which are a tiny fraction of all the cases and ignore the larger picture which unfortunately can only be assessed with [boring] numbers. Because of the importance of numbers for showing the big picture, I feel strongly that numbers need to be used honestly and accurately.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Who is Candice Owens?
Seriously who the fuck is she?

I know a guy who said Corona Virus was made by Liberal Scientists to undermine Trumps trade deal.
Should I post his rants?

She is a phony grifting fame whore who shouldn't be relevant enough to warrant a post . Sadly she has gone viral so here we are.

Did your Liberal Scientists pal go viral?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

She is a phony grifting fame whore who shouldn't be relevant enough to warrant a post . Sadly she has gone viral so here we are.

Did your Liberal Scientists pal go viral?

Not yet

 

[zzyzxroad]

No, I agree that making a martyr out of Floyd isn't a good look for the black community. They can protest the injustice of the killing and the fact that racism was obviously a component of it, but making t-shirts and posters of Floyd isn't such a great idea. He was a career violent criminal who did several unforgivable things, and based on the presence of meth and fentanyl in his system that day, he may well not have been "getting his life back together" as some people have claimed.

But I think the statistics are important when it comes to issues like this. Too many people focus on individual cases which are a tiny fraction of all the cases and ignore the larger picture which unfortunately can only be assessed with [boring] numbers. Because of the importance of numbers for showing the big picture, I feel strongly that numbers need to be used honestly and accurately.

People are missing the bigger picture. Videos like the one from this phony are not helpful. Did Floyd have a checkered past and was he a criminal? Who the fuck cares. He was killed by police without cause. He is just a reminder of the major problem we have and that needs to be address. Her video does nothing but detract form that fact.

People need to realize the US's a massive issue with systematic racism so we can come together as a society and fix it.

 

[HumblePie]

No, I agree that making a martyr out of Floyd isn't a good look for the black community. They can protest the injustice of the killing and the fact that racism was obviously a component of it, but making t-shirts and posters of Floyd isn't such a great idea. He was a career violent criminal who did several unforgivable things, and based on the presence of meth and fentanyl in his system that day, he may well not have been "getting his life back together" as some people have claimed.

But I think the statistics are important when it comes to issues like this. Too many people focus on individual cases which are a tiny fraction of all the cases and ignore the larger picture which unfortunately can only be assessed with [boring] numbers. Because of the importance of numbers for showing the big picture, I feel strongly that numbers need to be used honestly and accurately.

I disagree with racism on this one here. Too many non-white cops involved doing the same thing. Unless the cop has a history of it, I highly doubt racism was a factor here. My only thing is that we aren't even sure the cops actually killed him with those drugs in his system and how high he was. That was the reason people called the police in the 911 call. That he was actually crazy on drugs. The 20 fake note was an after fact but one the media is leading with. Several calls to 911 were made about his crazy actions prior to police arriving from a couple places I saw. If the media was able to get the info about the fake note, they would have had the info about the drug reports as well at the same time. It was more than disingenuous by the media to do that.

I an NOT giving a pass at the officer doing a carotid hold on George. That shit should be illegal everywhere. I know places, like MN still had it on the books as legal police procedure, but it can lead to death. It may have been a contributing factor here, but with all the drugs in his system and poor health from years of being a drug addict, that is hard to prove one way or another. Because people could have underlying health problems though, the practice should still be removed period. This was a shitty outcome all around because the cops used a maneuver I would never have done in their shoes. Been a first responder in my past and while never a cop, was still trained to put hands on people if need be. Even my trainers said back then that using any sort of carotid or choke hold is dangerous because it can cause complications leading to death. After Eric Garner, that shit should have been wiped from the books everywhere as a valid use of force to subdue. There are other ways to subdue someone with 4 officers in that scenario to be just as effective. If the actual cause of death was the drugs and there was no carotid hold, this incident would never have reached national attention.

 

[woolfe9998]

I disagree with racism on this one here. Too many non-white cops involved doing the same thing. Unless the cop has a history of it, I highly doubt racism was a factor here.

I've got a feeling you're going to disagree with racism being a factor unless the cop is literally shouting the n-word while doing it. I'll tell you why it's obvious to me that racism played a role here.

Because the trigger for the cop's anger was passive resistance. He wouldn't let them put him into his car. I can see cops getting angry over that. Some cops are real dicks and get very testy, even rough, when a suspect doesn't comply with what they're telling them to do because they have this God complex.

The problem is they kneeled on this man for over 8 minutes. Continued kneeling when he said he couldn't breathe. Continued kneeling while onlookers were saying he might be dying or dead already. Continued kneeling when he became motionless. Continued kneeling after they found no pulse. Didn't give CPR after they got up. Waited three minutes to even call an ambulance.

I've seen some dick behavior from cops who were pissed because someone didn't cooperate, but that is extreme behavior, and extreme behavior calls for an explanation. They must have devalued this man's life for some reason, must have at best just not cared much whether he lived or died. All their behavior suggests it. If the reason for treating the man as if his life was unimportant wasn't because he was black, I'm all ears as to what other explanation that might be. By mere process of elimination, racism seems like the most plausible explanation to me.

 

[zzyzxroad]

I disagree with racism on this one here. Too many non-white cops involved doing the same thing. Unless the cop has a history of it, I highly doubt racism was a factor here. My only thing is that we aren't even sure the cops actually killed him with those drugs in his system and how high he was. That was the reason people called the police in the 911 call. That he was actually crazy on drugs. The 20 fake note was an after fact but one the media is leading with. Several calls to 911 were made about his crazy actions prior to police arriving from a couple places I saw. If the media was able to get the info about the fake note, they would have had the info about the drug reports as well at the same time. It was more than disingenuous by the media to do that.

I an NOT giving a pass at the officer doing a carotid hold on George. That shit should be illegal everywhere. I know places, like MN still had it on the books as legal police procedure, but it can lead to death. It may have been a contributing factor here, but with all the drugs in his system and poor health from years of being a drug addict, that is hard to prove one way or another. Because people could have underlying health problems though, the practice should still be removed period. This was a shitty outcome all around because the cops used a maneuver I would never have done in their shoes. Been a first responder in my past and while never a cop, was still trained to put hands on people if need be. Even my trainers said back then that using any sort of carotid or choke hold is dangerous because it can cause complications leading to death. After Eric Garner, that shit should have been wiped from the books everywhere as a valid use of force to subdue. There are other ways to subdue someone with 4 officers in that scenario to be just as effective. If the actual cause of death was the drugs and there was no carotid hold, this incident would never have reached national attention.

Where are you getting your information? Please post some links about the levels of the drugs in his system or him acting crazy. have have not seen any of that.

I saw a video of him being calmly removed from his car, handcuffed and walked down the street to where he ended up. The spot where the cop put a knee on him for about 9 minutes and killed him.

 

[woolfe9998]

Where are you getting your information? Please post some links about the levels of the drugs in his system or him acting crazy. have have not seen any of that.

I saw a video of him being calmly removed from his car, handcuffed and walked down the street to where he ended up. The spot where the cop put a knee on him for about 9 minutes and killed him.

There is evidence of drugs in his system. No evidence of "crazy" behavior. HP is embellishing things to support a narrative he favors.

 

[JEDIYoda]

WoW!! I just read through the entire thread! Most of you all get it! A few of you all are on the fence and what happened to the OP? He all of a sudden went MIA!!!
If I were to wager a guess and you all called it like it is and he ran for cover!
It is sad when somebody is in reality a racist!

 

[feralkid]

WoW!! I just read through the entire thread! Most of you all get it! A few of you all are on the fence and what happened to the OP? He all of a sudden went MIA!!!
If I were to wager a guess and you all called it like it is and he ran for cover!
It is sad when somebody is in reality a racist!

His true colors have become visible in many of his posts lately. It's a crying-ass shame that some people can still fall for this horse shit.

 

[Maxima1]

Do the math or STFU.

The truth hurts sometimes.

The truth behind racial disparities in fatal police shootings

New research from MSU reveals findings that contradict what many people think about racial disparities in fatal police shootings.

msutoday.msu.edu

But if you're not satisfied with this either, riddle me this: how racist is the UK relative to the US?

Because if they're less racist, it doesn't explain why the proportions of crime vs. number killed would stay so similar to the US.

I've seen some dick behavior from cops who were pissed because someone didn't cooperate, but that is extreme behavior, and extreme behavior calls for an explanation. They must have devalued this man's life for some reason, must have at best just not cared much whether he lived or died. All their behavior suggests it. If the reason for treating the man as if his life was unimportant wasn't because he was black, I'm all ears as to what other explanation that might be. By mere process of elimination, racism seems like the most plausible explanation to me.

Do you think they treat homeless, mentally ill, or career criminal white people the same as middle class white people?

 

[zzyzxroad]

The truth hurts sometimes.

The truth behind racial disparities in fatal police shootings

New research from MSU reveals findings that contradict what many people think about racial disparities in fatal police shootings.

msutoday.msu.edu

But if you're not satisfied with this either, riddle me this: how racist is the UK relative to the US?

Because if they're less racist, it doesn't explain why the proportions of crime vs. number killed would stay so similar to the US.

Do you think they treat homeless, mentally ill, or career criminal white people the same as middle class white people?

Am I the only one having an issue with your link? Can you also link to your charts so I can get some context to put them into?