What car should I buy?

[Craig234]

We should probably direct the OP to the similarly broad Trident thread.

There should be an equivalent of the PC build guidelines in the General Hardware forum, where the OP should be expected to narrow it down before asking.

How about, no one is forcing you to participate, and if I want to get some ideas, I'll do that?

You can start your own forum if you want to dictate that.

 

[Crono]

How about, no one is forcing you to participate, and if I want to get some ideas, I'll do that?

You can start your own forum if you want to dictate that.

My suggestion was constructive criticism. If you really want help, try narrowing down and deciding what you want and be less vague. If you are happy with a meandering thread that lasts forever, that's perfectly fine, but I think focus (not the car ) is better if what you say you want in your post is actually what you want.

And no, I'm not looking to "dictate" anything. The reason for my suggestion is the same reason the guidelines exist in the other forums: people tend to go off topic and get into non-productive arguments when there's no clarity. It's also just a big time suck.

Notice that I'm not the only user so far who has said pretty much the same thing: we can't tell you what you want.

 

[Craig234]

My suggestion was constructive criticism. If you really want help, try narrowing down and deciding what you want and be less vague. If you are happy with a meandering thread that lasts forever, that's perfectly fine, but I think focus (not the car ) is better if what you say you want in your post is actually what you want.

And no, I'm not looking to "dictate" anything. The reason for my suggestion is the same reason the guidelines exist in the other forums: people tend to go off topic and get into non-productive arguments when there's no clarity. It's also just a big time suck.

Notice that I'm not the only user so far who has said pretty much the same thing: we can't tell you what you want.

OK, my constructive criticism is that yours isn't as helpful as you think in my opinion, so thanks for the thought but let's end the point with you said what you had to say.

 

[Craig234]

Car and Driver 'top 10' from 2015:

Model
BMW M235i
Cadillac CTS
Chevrolet Corvette Stingray
Ford Mustang GT
Honda Accord
Mazda 3
Mazda 6
Porsche Boxster/Cayman
Tesla Model S 60
Volkswagen Golf/GTI

(the next year they replaced the Mazda 6 with the Mazda Miata).

Out of those... Cadillac, Corvette, Mazda 6, Porsche Cayman are of interest. Corvette likely not practical and too expensive but an old favorite in looks.

Accord has some tempting things, but low depreciation and that 'plain Jane' issue. I've heard some good about VW, but the Golf I think got terrible CR reliability ratings.

BMW and Tesla pricey, Mustang just not the style I'd like.

Just more to weed through of a ton of options.

 

[XavierMace]

The 2015 top 10 list is largely moot if your budget is $20k max as a good portion of those cars have had refreshes (good refreshes at that) in the last 3 years and you'd have to go more than 3 years back to get it down to your specified price range. Unless the market in your area is drastically different. Average prices for 2014's (2015 for the Tesla) local to me:

BMW M235i - $28k
Cadillac CTS - $24k (I do see a couple of bare bones base models for $18k)
Chevrolet Corvette Stingray - $44k
Ford Mustang GT - $26k
Honda Accord - $11k
Mazda 3 - $12k
Mazda 6 - $15k
Porsche Boxster/Cayman - $40k
Tesla Model S 60 - $75k (No 60's in my area)
Volkswagen Golf/GTI - $17k

So your quoted budget would seem to be at odds with the cars that interest you, save for the Mazda. The Boxster would have to go back to about '08 to get it under $20k. Ditto for the Corvette. Prior to 2014, M235i = 135i. You'd be looking at a 2011 or so for them. Mustang GT you'd have to drop back to about 2011 it looks like. All of those have gone through a refresh between 2015 and the latest year under $20k.

 

[bradly1101]

Reliability is good but a secondary priority to comfort and value and liking the car.

Yeah, but there are a lot options from the top spots:

80 Toyota
2 ↓1 Lexus
3 ↑2 Kia
4 — Audi
5 ↑4 BMW
6 ↑5 Subaru
7 ↑1 Infiniti
8 ↓5 Buick
9 ↑1 Honda
10 ↓ 3 Hyundai
11 ↑2 Nissan
12 ↓6 Mazda
50 1↑ 3 Porsche

 

[bradly1101]

Obvious difference between performance (CD) and reliability (CR).

 

[Craig234]

The 2015 top 10 list is largely moot if your budget is $20k max as a good portion of those cars have had refreshes (good refreshes at that) in the last 3 years and you'd have to go more than 3 years back to get it down to your specified price range. Unless the market in your area is drastically different. Average prices for 2014's (2015 for the Tesla) local to me:

BMW M235i - $28k
Cadillac CTS - $24k (I do see a couple of bare bones base models for $18k)
Chevrolet Corvette Stingray - $44k
Ford Mustang GT - $26k
Honda Accord - $11k
Mazda 3 - $12k
Mazda 6 - $15k
Porsche Boxster/Cayman - $40k
Tesla Model S 60 - $75k (No 60's in my area)
Volkswagen Golf/GTI - $17k

So your quoted budget would seem to be at odds with the cars that interest you, save for the Mazda. The Boxster would have to go back to about '08 to get it under $20k. Ditto for the Corvette. Prior to 2014, M235i = 135i. You'd be looking at a 2011 or so for them. Mustang GT you'd have to drop back to about 2011 it looks like. All of those have gone through a refresh between 2015 and the latest year under $20k.

That's very good info and ya, for the nicer cars I'm looking at older models. I just picked 2015 as a sort of 3 year old sweet spot for a start.

For example, there's a 2011 Cayman with 58k miles for $22.5k locally. Hm.

 

[Yuriman]

Most reliable cars (as a generalization) are going to be Toyota/Lexus, followed by other (large) Japanese manufacturers. American cars have a wide spread, European cars are generally going to be at the bottom in terms of both reliability, and cost to fix something when it goes wrong.

For what it's worth, the most comfortable car I've ever driven any significant miles in was a Lexus ES. I took one from coast to coast and didn't have the slightest discomfort, whereas in many cars my back starts to ache after a few hours. I like older American bench seats quite a bit too, but I doubt you'll find one in a car you'd otherwise want to own.

 

[Craig234]

If a car is mentioned that is a convertible that is 'really comfortable, very quiet with the roof up, a nice car that has come way down in price used, and a pleasure', does any one jump to mind?

 

[Alpha One Seven]

My wife just got a '66 Mustang a couple weeks ago, great car.

 

[Craig234]

My wife just got a '66 Mustang a couple weeks ago, great car.

Glad to hear it, but I suspect the maintenance might be a lot more than I'd like, that it lacks the modern comfort, etc. I'm sure it's fun.

 

[Yuriman]

If a car is mentioned that is a convertible that is 'really comfortable, very quiet with the roof up, a nice car that has come way down in price used, and a pleasure', does any one jump to mind?

Nope, such a thing does not exist. Convertible roofs cause a ton of wind turbulence and they're nearly always a lot louder than fixed roofs.

Miata?

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Lots of reliable comfortable convertibles exist that are under $20K -

Saab 4cyl turbo 2008+ avoid the V6 as its more difficult to work on
Pontiac G6 Convertible - hard top
Saturn Sky/Pontiac Solstice - 4cyl turbo.
Corvette C5 - easy to work on but a outdated interior - comfortable though
Mustang - rental spec 3.7L V6 - 2015+


We've had 3 convertibles and enjoy soft-tops over hard tops as it increases the trunk space and they are not as prone to failure due to the complicated hydraulics.

VW Eos, VW Beetle, Mini Cooper, Lexus IS, Infiniti G37, Chrysler 200/Sebring, Camaro, Mustang, Buick Cascada, MBZ CLK - 1st gen, BMW 128i

Go test drive, determine what you like, and then read that cars forums for common problems.

 

[Craig234]

Nope, such a thing does not exist. Convertible roofs cause a ton of wind turbulence and they're nearly always a lot louder than fixed roofs.

Miata?

Darn. That convertible noise (wind) for hours and hours could get old.

Miata might be a bit lacking in the comfort, but I hear a lot of good about them being enjoyable. Unfortunately a review said they're noisy (wind). I'm going to go browse them today.

 

[Craig234]

Lots of reliable comfortable convertibles exist that are under $20K -

Saab 4cyl turbo 2008+ avoid the V6 as its more difficult to work on
Pontiac G6 Convertible - hard top
Saturn Sky/Pontiac Solstice - 4cyl turbo.
Corvette C5 - easy to work on but a outdated interior - comfortable though
Mustang - rental spec 3.7L V6 - 2015+


We've had 3 convertibles and enjoy soft-tops over hard tops as it increases the trunk space and they are not as prone to failure due to the complicated hydraulics.

VW Eos, VW Beetle, Mini Cooper, Lexus IS, Infiniti G37, Chrysler 200/Sebring, Camaro, Mustang, Buick Cascada, MBZ CLK - 1st gen, BMW 128i

Go test drive, determine what you like, and then read that cars forums for common problems.

I'm going to take a look at your list.

I checked the Corvette first because a Corvette convertible sounds like a lot of fun. Unfortunately an article recommending it suggested it's not comfortable:

"So what are the drawbacks to the C5 Z06?

That would be the interior. The C5 Z06 has an interior that's typical of late-1990s and early-2000s General Motors vehicles, and the fit and finish on even the nicest, lowest-mileage garage queens won't be pretty. The other issue: The stiff performance suspension can make everyday driving uncomfortable. "

 

[Craig234]

Ah you said 2008+ Saab - I found this one 2001 but with a 30K motor darned cheap but needing some work:

https://medford.craigslist.org/cto/d/convertible-saab-viggen/6339284018.html

 

[PricklyPete]

Just to be an ass, that's not strictly true given he's looking at used models. With a 20k MAX budget, that means he could easily be looking at previous generation models.

LS = Toyota Celsior until 2006
GS = Toyota Aristo until 2005
IS = Toyota Altezza until 2005

They were sold as Toyota's first in Japan, then brought to the US as under the Lexus name until Toyota started selling them under the Lexus name in Japan. A lot of people complained about the first gen IS because it didn't feel like a Lexus. The smarter people loved the first gen IS because it was a very light weight rear wheel drive sedan.

Different markets aren’t relevant to the context of what car should I buy here. The fact is that you can buy an ES or a Camry here...so it is valid to consider why I should buy a Lexus ES vs a Camry (or now an Avalon). With the GS...there is no analogue sold here in the US.

 

[XavierMace]

VW Eos, VW Beetle, Mini Cooper, Lexus IS, Infiniti G37, Chrysler 200/Sebring, Camaro, Mustang, Buick Cascada, MBZ CLK - 1st gen, BMW 128i

My 135i Convertible has a lot of interior squeaks/rattles which I've heard are worse then on the Coupe. Just something to for the OP to consider.

 

[Craig234]

An old 2004 Lexus 430... Hm... Ya, Top Gear called it the worst car in history but I've always liked it - I see one with 65k miles for $11K...

Top Gear years ago said Jeremy's #1 car he's like was the Mercedes SLK convertible...

 

[Alpha One Seven]

Glad to hear it, but I suspect the maintenance might be a lot more than I'd like, that it lacks the modern comfort, etc. I'm sure it's fun.

It has a modern suspension and engine in it. Maintenance is rarely needed and is extremely simple to do.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

An old 2004 Lexus 430... Hm... Ya, Top Gear called it the worst car in history but I've always liked it - I see one with 65k miles for $11K...

Top Gear years ago said Jeremy's #1 car he's like was the Mercedes SLK convertible...

A great reason to avoid it.

 

[Craig234]

A great reason to avoid it.

Well, here's what Edmunds says:

Since its inception, the Lexus luxury division has been steadfast and relentless in its pursuit of, well, perfection. A challenging benchmark to be sure, but one the brand has been exceedingly successful at meeting with home run after home run. The original first-generation LS 400 was a smash hit that quickly rose to the head of the luxury sedan class with a large and loyal owner base and a slew of industry awards.

For the mid-'90s second-generation makeover, Lexus was wise enough to leave well enough alone and not fix what wasn't broken. So when a third-generation redesign was slated for 2001, exactly how would Lexus better its top-rated sedan in the premium luxury segment? The answer was to swing for the fences yet again with more of everything: design edginess, interior room and comfort, performance, safety and technology.

The resulting Lexus LS 430 was one of the finest luxury sedans available anywhere. A two-time winner of an Edmunds.com Editors' Most Wanted award, the LS 430 boasted a top-notch interior, a superb ride, excellent build quality and an impressive array of features. The only thing that gave shoppers pause at the time was the car's price. Loaded with options, this was the first LS-series car to finally reach the price levels of premium European luxury sedans.

With price depreciation having set in, that's less of an issue now. As a previously owned model, the Lexus LS 430 provides the same exceptional luxury sedan experience as it did when it was new. For shoppers in this segment, especially ones wanting a luxury sedan that's a bit more demure than its German rivals, the LS 430 is an excellent choice.

So... that sounds pretty good.

 

[Craig234]

Look at this, Lexus 2005 SC 430 56K miles for $12K

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/d/2005-lexus-sc430-convertible/6361777950.html

 

[Alpha One Seven]

Look at this, Lexus 2005 SC 430 56K miles for $12K

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/d/2005-lexus-sc430-convertible/6361777950.html

Well, you won't get a 1966 Mustang for anything close to that cheap, so get what you can.