What Atheists and Agnostics Know About Religion

[Zorkorist]

So you would kill all people who have a religion, since anything would be better.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I don't know what your problem is, but that is not even close to what I said.

-John

 

[IronWing]

I don't know what your problem is, but that is not even close to what I said.

-John

I think he's just keeping the thread warm until PJW gets back.


Edit: Oops, PJW hasn't even posted in this one, weird.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I don't know what your problem is, but that is not even close to what I said.

-John

Snap, that was the other guy. You were the one who said that the government should ban religion, although that would take an iron fisted dictatorship and that it would be worth it.

 

[zerocool84]

Religion CAN be peaceful. Anything CAN be peaceful but as we know it doesn't work out that way. Religion can help someone become a better person. We see many people go to jail and use religion as an excuse to become a better person and I'm all for that but of course that doesn't excuse what they did to get in jail and just because you become religious you are not absolved of your sins contrary to what religion would have you believe. It's how religions get people to believe in it. If you do something bad but then believe in god and pray to him you are magically saved. I grew up very religious and wouldn't change the way I was raised at all as everyone needs to figure things out for themselves and it's not wrong to follow a religion. What is wrong is the hate and bigotry 99% of religions spread. Gays are just as human as me and you and hating them goes against what all religions are fundamentally about. Obviously god created gays if he created me and you. Other religious beliefs are just as right as you are. Hell even Scientology is just as right as Christianity is despite how much it's hated. A true follower of ANY religion shouldn't have to prove to anyone that what they believe is right or wrong. Seems all these believers here are very skewed as to what being a true follower is all about.

 

[Zorkorist]

You are mixing threads, and probably don't like me, Hayabusa...

even in the other thread, I never talked about killing religous people.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Religion CAN be peaceful. Anything CAN be peaceful but as we know it doesn't work out that way. Religion can help someone become a better person. We see many people go to jail and use religion as an excuse to become a better person and I'm all for that but of course that doesn't excuse what they did to get in jail and just because you become religious you are not absolved of your sins contrary to what religion would have you believe. It's how religions get people to believe in it. If you do something bad but then believe in god and pray to him you are magically saved. I grew up very religious and wouldn't change the way I was raised at all as everyone needs to figure things out for themselves and it's not wrong to follow a religion. What is wrong is the hate and bigotry 99% of religions spread. Gays are just as human as me and you and hating them goes against what all religions are fundamentally about. Obviously god created gays if he created me and you. Other religious beliefs are just as right as you are. Hell even Scientology is just as right as Christianity is despite how much it's hated. A true follower of ANY religion shouldn't have to prove to anyone that what they believe is right or wrong. Seems all these believers here are very skewed as to what being a true follower is all about.

Good post.

We are all what we are. We can believe in Supreme Beings, or not.

We can believe in Marriage. or not.

The only times this becomes an issue, is when some one says "You must belive in Supreme Beings, or you MUST believe in Marriage."

-John

 

[SMOGZINN]

Nowhere in the bible does it say anything about witches. People hunt witches because they are stupid as fuck. Forget destroying Christianity; we need to kill everyone who is stupid as fuck. That would do a lot more good, actually.

Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
Not that it matters, at the time the general populace was not very literate and therefore bible said what ever your local priest told you it said.

If you're referring to the witch hunts in Salem back in the 1600's or whenever it was that they occurred, it's not likely at all that those particular witch hunts had anything to do with religion or even witches. (Except the execution part.)

They were about social control, and given power by religion. Religion was just the tool used, but it happens to be a particularly good tool for convincing people to kill others. Atheism on the other hand is a particularly bad tool for getting people to kill each other, because by it’s very nature atheism encourages people to think for themselves and not blindly follow a charismatic leader.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You are mixing threads, and probably don't like me, Hayabusa...

even in the other thread, I never talked about killing religous people.

-John

It's not that I don't like you, I find that you are looking at people and effectively saying they are evil would be equivalent to me saying that atheists are amoral. Sure, some are, but it's not because they are atheistic. It all depends on the person, but it seems that you have your mind made up. That's what I object to.

I'll give you a couple examples of what I mean. A few years back I went with a group which was organized by a local church to Jamaica. The majority were church members, but I knew one of the guys pretty well and I was able to pony up the money to go as I have some modest skills which were needed to help rebuild a village in the mountains. People who weren't wealthy by any means took a considerable portion of their income (some even borrowed) to pay for transportation and supplies. We paid for everything.

We all worked for two weeks together. Yeah they had their prayer meetings, but they didn't get out the bible and hit anyone with it. They just worked with the locals and got stuff done.

While I was there I had a chance to talk to a couple Jamaicans. It wasn't the first time people had helped them or others that they knew. The interesting thing is that it was always people just like these. Why did they do it? Because that it was their obligation. Well maybe they are fools, but if you went to that town and try to convince them of the evil of their visitors you wouldn't get far.

Did you know that most of the people who worked long term in New Orleans were from church groups? Yep, on their own nickle too.

How about the Mennonites who go around building homes for cost of materials when towns are struck by tornadoes? I didn't know that until it happened to my mother.

If these people are doing evil we need more of it.

 

[Zorkorist]

There is a lot of good that flows from Religion. I won't deny that and am in great favor of it.

Personally, I think that Religous people's needs, for charity, for community, and strength, can be accomplished without God.

But the Church is so ingrained...

So, yes, fine, Religion can be good.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

But it should be banned.

-John

 

[OCNewbie]

I grew up in a relatively devout Baptist household, went to church at least 1, often 2 times a week. What I was taught growing up, at home and at church, was my reality. I finally started questioning things in my early 20's after I met an Agnostic friend that brought up some points I had never been willing to think about. It was quite a struggle, lots of guilty feelings, but eventually I became what I consider myself now, and that's Agnostic... I don't know one way or the other, but I also don't really care enough to look more into it.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

It's a lot more enlightening to look at the foundations - go back to the Old Testament and take a careful look at it. Look at how many stories were pretty much plagiarized from other groups. Read through Exodus & see how much of it was a set of rules for governing. Check out the 10 Commandments and think about it in the context of the times.
"You shall have no other gods before Me"
It's not like today - back then, there were a lot of different gods. What the very first commandment says is that there are other gods, but the Lord is superior to the rest of them. It doesn't say "you shall have no other gods." It says "you shall have no other gods before me."

Also (for the people who believe in literal translations) virtually all written works back then were allegorical in nature. Not literal works of non-fiction.

There are plenty of things that are "gods"; money, fame, power, greed, sex, etc. You defining "gods" way too narrowly.

 

[Zorkorist]

I grew up in a relatively devout Baptist household, went to church at least 1, often 2 times a week. What I was taught growing up, at home and at church, was my reality. I finally started questioning things in my early 20's after I met an Agnostic friend that brought up some points I had never been willing to think about. It was quite a struggle, lots of guilty feelings, but eventually I became what I consider myself now, and that's Agnostic... I don't know one way or the other, but I also don't really care enough to look more into it.

Once you lose the fear of an angry God, one that could banish Adam and Eve, because Eve ate an Apple...

Then you realize, there is no God.

It's only you.

-John

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

It's a lot more enlightening to look at the foundations - go back to the Old Testament and take a careful look at it. Look at how many stories were pretty much plagiarized from other groups. Read through Exodus & see how much of it was a set of rules for governing. Check out the 10 Commandments and think about it in the context of the times.
"You shall have no other gods before Me"
It's not like today - back then, there were a lot of different gods. What the very first commandment says is that there are other gods, but the Lord is superior to the rest of them. It doesn't say "you shall have no other gods." It says "you shall have no other gods before me."

Also (for the people who believe in literal translations) virtually all written works back then were allegorical in nature. Not literal works of non-fiction.

Ever study Bible codes? Here's an interesting one.

Genealogy from Adam to Noah (Genesis 5)
Adam
Seth
Enosh
Kenan
Mahalalel
Jared
Enoch
Methuselah
Lamech
Noah

Hebrew/English
Adam - Man
Seth - Appointed
Enosh - Mortal
Kenan - Sorrow;
Mahalalel - The Blessed God
Jared - Shall come down
Enoch - Teaching
Methuselah - His death shall bring
Lamech - The Despairing
Noah - Rest, or comfort.

That's rather remarkable:

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

Here's the Gospel hidden within a genealogy in Genesis!

(You will never convince me that a group of Jewish rabbis conspired to hide the Christian Gospel right here in a genealogy within their venerated Torah!)

 

[zerocool84]

Ever study Bible codes? Here's an interesting one.

Genealogy from Adam to Noah (Genesis 5)
Adam
Seth
Enosh
Kenan
Mahalalel
Jared
Enoch
Methuselah
Lamech
Noah

Hebrew/English
Adam - Man
Seth - Appointed
Enosh - Mortal
Kenan - Sorrow;
Mahalalel - The Blessed God
Jared - Shall come down
Enoch - Teaching
Methuselah - His death shall bring
Lamech - The Despairing
Noah - Rest, or comfort.

That's rather remarkable:

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

Here's the Gospel hidden within a genealogy in Genesis!

(You will never convince me that a group of Jewish rabbis conspired to hide the Christian Gospel right here in a genealogy within their venerated Torah!)

LOL taking something out of context. Seems typical. Same thing with people picking the 7th letter of the 7th paragraph of the 7th page and finding Hitler's name it in or all that other crap people do to make it seem like there's hidden messages. Anyone can find anything hidden if they look for it. They'll just fit whatever is there to make it so.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

Really? This isn't so hidden.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

Ever study Bible codes? Here's an interesting one.

Genealogy from Adam to Noah (Genesis 5)
Adam
Seth
Enosh
Kenan
Mahalalel
Jared
Enoch
Methuselah
Lamech
Noah

Hebrew/English
Adam - Man
Seth - Appointed
Enosh - Mortal
Kenan - Sorrow;
Mahalalel - The Blessed God
Jared - Shall come down
Enoch - Teaching
Methuselah - His death shall bring
Lamech - The Despairing
Noah - Rest, or comfort.

That's rather remarkable:

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

Here's the Gospel hidden within a genealogy in Genesis!

(You will never convince me that a group of Jewish rabbis conspired to hide the Christian Gospel right here in a genealogy within their venerated Torah!)

Is this a thread stopper?

 

[Zorkorist]

It's borderline cuckoo

-John

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

But it should be banned.

-John

Fair enough

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

It's borderline cuckoo

-John

How so? What's your explanation?

 

[ShawnD1]

LOL taking something out of context. Seems typical. Same thing with people picking the 7th letter of the 7th paragraph of the 7th page and finding Hitler's name it in or all that other crap people do to make it seem like there's hidden messages. Anyone can find anything hidden if they look for it. They'll just fit whatever is there to make it so.

You'll find all kinds of shit if you look up what peoples names mean.

My name is a bastardized version of Sean. It's spelled different because I'm not Irish.
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Sean

It is of Irish origin. Variant of John (Hebrew) "God is gracious"

Suppose you know a guy named Chris.
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Christopher

It is of Greek origin, and the meaning of Christopher is "bearing Christ inside"

So.... if a guy named Sean and Chris have gay sex, you could say the coded meaning is that god is gracious because one of them is bearing Christ inside. D:

 

[Zorkorist]

Your God could pop up today, and say "Boy Howdy!"

Or you could try and do funny things with toilet paper.

-John

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

You'll find all kinds of shit if you look up what peoples names mean. D:

The Christian gospel message is spelled out by combining the Hebrew meanings of ten name in genealogical order from Adam to Noah.

Random chance?

 

[magomago]

The Christian gospel message is spelled out by combining the Hebrew meanings of ten name in genealogical order from Adam to Noah.

Random chance?

Absolutely without a doubt. If you don't believe it is chance, then I ask you to submit to the holy word of Moby Dick: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

 

[ShawnD1]

The Christian gospel message is spelled out by combining the Hebrew meanings of ten name in genealogical order from Adam to Noah.

Random chance?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_salad

Word salad is a mixture of random words that, while arranged in phrases that appear to give them meaning, actually carry no significance. A famous example is Noam Chomsky's phrase, "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously". People who suffer from this affliction attempt to communicate their idea, but the random words come out instead. Often, the person is unaware that he or she did not make sense.