What Atheists and Agnostics Know About Religion

[Zorkorist]

Actually the religious go to jail for breaking the law like anyone else. Over the ages people have died because of their religion and others have killed because of it. Millions have died because they weren't atheists as well. Today you are most likely to be murdered because someone doesn't like you or wants your stuff. I find it all tragic. Some don't it would seem.

You didn't BEGIN to answer my questions.

-John

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Actually I did. You just refuse to read.

So what atheists did I say killed people because they were religious? Did I not just say that some had died because of religion? Yep it's there. I also find it all evil.

So you hate religion. If you had the power to do so would you kill those who believe in a god if you thought you could get away with it and you thought it would eliminate religion?

 

[Zorkorist]

I'm still waiting for you to tell me about Atheists that killed people because they were Religious.

You could bring up Lenin, or Stalin, but you know they bekieved in God abd were Religious.

Try Hitler.

-John

 

[Ancalagon44]

Try Hitler.

-John

Who, according to Mein Kampf, was Catholic. And a vegan.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Stalin wasn't a believer and Mao certainly wasn't. If you disagree with the first there's still the second. Your turn to answer my questions.

 

[Zorkorist]

The Koumer-Rouge killed indiscrimmately. as did Stalin.

Hitler killed Jews, but he was very Religious.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Stalin wasn't a believer and Mao certainly wasn't. If you disagree with the first there's still the second. Your turn to answer my questions.

I honestly don't know much about Mao tse Tung, other than he terrorizrd his own people.

I know Xhia raped Japan, but don't know how religous it was.

-John

 

[Ancalagon44]

Stalin wasn't a believer and Mao certainly wasn't. If you disagree with the first there's still the second. Your turn to answer my questions.

Both of those created personality cults in which they were worshipped and feared.

Its not that religion on its own leads to evil (although it does lead to ignorance and judgmental behaviour). Its that it provides a very easy means of control which allows evil people to commit evil acts and have their population believe it is necessary. Its all about control. Take away religion, and you take away a means of control.

Like that one quote goes: "With or without religion, good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

And its patently obvious. I know many atheists - none of them are evil. I also know religious people - none of them are evil either. But with control such as religion provides, its very easy to get good people to do evil things. They dont even realize its evil. Christians killing abortion doctors - they dont see it as evil, they see it as necessary. They justify murder in the name of religion.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Mao pretty much had a checklist of the kinds of people he didn't like and religious persecution was high on his list. The thing of it is that in everyday life there are nice people and real bastards, some of which are religious and some not. There are some who help and some who hurt. They too may be atheists and maybe not. That's how I view things. If I fall I don't care about the beliefs of the one who helps me get up. I think people can be good or evil all on their own and that's why I can't relate to the angst.

 

[Zorkorist]

Both of those created personality cults in which they were worshipped and feared.

Its not that religion on its own leads to evil (although it does lead to ignorance and judgmental behaviour). Its that it provides a very easy means of control which allows evil people to commit evil acts and have their population believe it is necessary. Its all about control. Take away religion, and you take away a means of control.

Like that one quote goes: "With or without religion, good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

And its patently obvious. I know many atheists - none of them are evil. I also know religious people - none of them are evil either. But with control such as religion provides, its very easy to get good people to do evil things. They dont even realize its evil. Christians killing abortion doctors - they dont see it as evil, they see it as necessary. They justify murder in the name of religion.

That's a very good post, and much of what I have been trying to say.

-John

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Both of those created personality cults in which they were worshipped and feared.

Its not that religion on its own leads to evil (although it does lead to ignorance and judgmental behaviour). Its that it provides a very easy means of control which allows evil people to commit evil acts and have their population believe it is necessary. Its all about control. Take away religion, and you take away a means of control.

Like that one quote goes: "With or without religion, good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

And its patently obvious. I know many atheists - none of them are evil. I also know religious people - none of them are evil either. But with control such as religion provides, its very easy to get good people to do evil things. They dont even realize its evil. Christians killing abortion doctors - they dont see it as evil, they see it as necessary. They justify murder in the name of religion.

A couple points of disagreement. First good people have killed in the name of their land and their politics. It's always been that way too. Also it is a few christians who support killing doctors. Likewise we've had people here who said that they would gladly see most of the world die to get rid of religion. Killing billions doesn't seem very civilized.

What it comes down to is the fact that a small minority screw things up for everyone else. Some will follow a leader for his religion, his politics or his ideology and I object to any of those excuses to do wrong.

 

[Ancalagon44]

A couple points of disagreement. First good people have killed in the name of their land and their politics.

What does that mean? First, they more than likely died for their leaders and not their land. Second, does that make war any more right?

Also it is a few christians who support killing doctors. Likewise we've had people here who said that they would gladly see most of the world die to get rid of religion. Killing billions doesn't seem very civilized.

Not many atheists I know express that notion, and absolutely none that I know of ever act upon it. Christians have killed and will continue to kill abortion doctors, they have and will continue to judge homosexuals, pagans, those who do yoga, atheists, and liberals. Are those good deeds?

What it comes down to is the fact that a small minority screw things up for everyone else. Some will follow a leader for his religion, his politics or his ideology and I object to any of those excuses to do wrong.

Really? But where are the atheist murderers and the atheists picketing funerals of soldiers? Where are the atheists spouting hateful rhetoric at gays and muslims? Where?

 

[Zorkorist]

Following anyone, for any reason, is better than following someone for Religiion.

We (he) just told you that.

-John

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There are a huge number of christians in this nation yet how often do clinics get blown up? If they were as much of a threat as you imply then there wouldn't be any. What you have done is taken the actions of the few and applied them to the many yet the natural consequences that would be true aren't there. Then there is the little problem of consistency. I could take the few who advocate genocide on a scale never seen and extend it to atheists in general. Will I? No because I don't hate either side enough to make a fool of myself by constructing specious arguments. BTW we have those who would support a totalitarian government to eliminate religion. That sounds extremist to me.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Following anyone, for any reason, is better than following someone for Religiion.

We (he) just told you that.

-John

Ahh and now we have it. It's better to follow a murdererous tyrant than a peaceful religious person.

There is one question you didn't answer. How many deaths do you believe would justify the end of religion?

 

[Taejin]

Ahh and now we have it. It's better to follow a murdererous tyrant than a peaceful religious person.

There is one question you didn't answer. How many deaths do you believe would justify the end of religion?

I would rather wave my magic wand and make religion magically go away and have a world evolved past that nonsense.. . Although I don't consider death to be inherently bad, it doesn't sound like a very non-traumatizing path, if the goal is only to get rid of religion. Unfortunately .

 

[Malak]

Yeah, it does. God = Religion.

-John

Isaiah 29:13

And so the Lord says, "These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away. And their worship of me amounts to nothing more than human laws learned by rote.

Just one example of many in the bible where God despises religion. Religion is what killed Jesus, remember? God has nothing to do with religion, it's man-made.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman, associate director for research at the Pew Forum.

"These are people who thought a lot about religion," he said. "They're not indifferent. They care about it."

Ding, Ding -- that describes me. I've grown weary of delving too deep into religious issues now but many years ago I took my time with the topic studying apologetics, intelligent design, etc ... but now I am an atheist.

 

[zinfamous]

Isaiah 29:13

And so the Lord says, "These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away. And their worship of me amounts to nothing more than human laws learned by rote.

Just one example of many in the bible where God despises religion. Religion is what killed Jesus, remember? God has nothing to do with religion, it's man-made.

I have to agree with Malak on this one, ....regardless of whether or not he uses scripture.

Of course, both God and religion are man-made, but I think it's true that belief in (a) God(s) doesn't entirely depend on adherence to a religion.

 

[sourceninja]

My father once told me "Church people are nuts. I believe in God and try to live a good life and if that's not enough for him then fuck him."

He is one of the very few sane religious people I've met. I became an atheist as a child after reading mythology, the bible, and ancient history books I was allowed to check out in the library. As I got older I went on to take bible lit, philosophy, psychology, etc course and further reinforced my beliefs. But it was cold hard science that really solidified them.

I did however pretend to believe until I was confirmed. It was important to my mother that I keep her promise to my grandmother and get all the way though Confirmation. Then I told her so she would stop bugging me about going to church.

 

[Zorkorist]

Ahh and now we have it. It's better to follow a murdererous tyrant than a peaceful religious person.

There is one question you didn't answer. How many deaths do you believe would justify the end of religion?

Religion is not peaceful, I don't know where you got that position.

Religion DAMNS people...

there is nothing peaceful about it.

Anything would and should be better than Religion.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

The smart people, follow neither...

But that is not your question, is it.

-John

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Religion is not peaceful, I don't know where you got that position.

Religion DAMNS people...

there is nothing peaceful about it.

Anything would and should be better than Religion.

-John

So you would kill all people who have a religion, since anything would be better.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Isaiah 29:13

And so the Lord says, "These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away. And their worship of me amounts to nothing more than human laws learned by rote.

Just one example of many in the bible where God despises religion. Religion is what killed Jesus, remember? God has nothing to do with religion, it's man-made.

So is god, so it sounds like they're 100% connected.

 

[Zorkorist]

My father once told me "Church people are nuts. I believe in God and try to live a good life and if that's not enough for him then fuck him."

He is one of the very few sane religious people I've met. I became an atheist as a child after reading mythology, the bible, and ancient history books I was allowed to check out in the library. As I got older I went on to take bible lit, philosophy, psychology, etc course and further reinforced my beliefs. But it was cold hard science that really solidified them.

I did however pretend to believe until I was confirmed. It was important to my mother that I keep her promise to my grandmother and get all the way though Confirmation. Then I told her so she would stop bugging me about going to church.

Coming out as an Atheist is like coming out as gay... very hard.

Cudos to you.

-John