What are legitimate reasons for citizens owning guns?

[bradly1101]

First... Your logic is a bit flawed. I support your intent to own a gun, but any professional firearm instructor is going to tell you that a gun is no replacement for a perimeter alarm. Whether that alarm is a dog that makes a lot of noise or an alarm system. Note: You can install an alarm system that is not monitored yet will still alert you when a door or window is opened/broken. In the middle of the day or night, if someone breaks into your home while you are there, you will not be prepared if you don't have an alarm or loud dog.

Professional instructors also recommend NOT keeping a firearm by the bed side unless it is locked. When you are startled in the middle of the night you need a moment for your head to clear and think properly - Hence the strong recommendation for some sort of alarm. V-Line makes a nice Rifle cabinet (and smaller handgun cabinet) that mounts between two housing studs and sits essentially flush to the wall. It has a 5 button push combination lock. So you press the buttons in the right sequence and you are instantly in and have your loaded firearm. I have the hand gun model in the bedroom. Two steps and I am at the safe and seconds later I am armed. By time they are actually in the house, I am armed and clear headed enough to act properly... and I'm not going to shoot a family member from my bedside. https://shop.factory-express.com/Pr...pXCiFbSVFuPZafDSRsqQ-wXjMWD3UuSxoC4BIQAvD_BwE

One last suggestion... Cameras. REAL cameras outside the house. I have three. One monitoring the driveway and cars, one monitoring the front of the house one way and one more camera pointing off the opposite side of the driveway. You can see them. They aren't huge, but they are obvious and they have LEDs that you can't miss at night. I also have a sign on the front of the Garage that I bought at home depot that says "smile for the camera". Our neighbor's vehicles were entered a couple of months back and valuables taken (they left them unlocked- wtf). The night it happened I never got any camera alerts except for the nightly 3am to 4am stroll a fluffy cat makes across our driveway. Nobody even entered our driveway to try and see if our cars were unlocked yet the two neighbors on either side of us had theft.

So please... A firearm is not the only answer to your security related concerns. It is only part of the solution, but should not be your first line of defense. If you ignore having and alarm or cameras, the gun may very well end up being useless to you. Kudos though for thinking about some sort of safe storage.

Are firearms ever needed for security (outside of someone who points a gun at you, in which case good luck)? Isn't it illegal to shoot someone who illegally enters a home without actions or intent to cause personal harm? Are people lying in wait to kill us in our homes? Or are they thieves?

https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...ome..69i57.19755j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Atreus21]

My approach is not to get all freaked out by all this fear mongering as if the imaginary boogeyman is coming through my door now. Never had the need to own a gun, lived all over the US and the world and probably never will. Unless its a 22 rifle to shoot down mistletoe.

My neighbor across the street got carjacked at gunpoint. My neighbor 8 houses down got home-invaded.

Considering the stakes, this isn't a decision taken lightly.

 

[Paladin3]

Thats right NRA says force it on them and get them while their young! What a fucked up world you must live in.

All children should be taught that if you see a weapon of any kind you don't touch, leave the room and tell a responsible adult. Same thing if they see drugs or other potentially dangerous items. Just like all kids approaching puberty need to understand how birth control works and how to get access to it. Same with instilling the concept that you will eventually have to support yourself, pay your own bills and that you can't spend more than you earn.

 

[bradly1101]

deterrence?
its not thier house
its illegal to break and enter
its illegal to steal
people own guns, you can get shot doing those things

And you can go to jail for shooting an intruder.

 

[Atreus21]

And you can go to jail for shooting an intruder.

I'm pretty sure deadly force is authorized when your home is broken into. You will probably still be arrested though - I'd imagine the self-defense aspect needs to undergo scrutiny in court.

 

[mdram]

And you can go to jail for shooting an intruder.

i would take my chance with a jury trial if it ever came to that

 

[bradly1101]

I love your last paragraph. Aggressors have a huge advantage in any attack because they go into the fight prepared, ready and willing to harm another individual. The victim usually hasn't even considered what to do if attacked, much less is ready and expecting that it could happen.

When I am carrying I have to be hyper vigilant to make sure the gun stays safely out of site and under my control at all times. I have to be ready just in case the worst does happen because I am armed. I've taken on the responsibility of carrying so my freedom to do absolutely as I want is curtailed to a some degree by my need to be ready. Without that readiness, training and willingness to respond to a threat, carrying a gun is not going to help much.

Still, I defy anyone to honestly tell me that if they were attacked they wouldn't want to be armed and prepared.

Would you shoot an unarmed crazy person who tried to tackle you but didn't aim a gun at you? Would that be a "good shoot?" What if he was beating on you?

 

[bradly1101]

I'm pretty sure deadly force is authorized when your home is broken into. You will probably still be arrested though - I'd imagine the self-defense aspect needs to undergo scrutiny in court.

My link was to prosecutions not arrests.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...ome..69i57.19755j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Storing and access could be less of an issue if the smart-gun industry had not been taken down in its infancy by the not-smart-gun owners/lobbyists/manufacturers. What a threat!

Ignorance opens it's yap again. Thanks, i'll take it to heart.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Would you shoot an unarmed crazy person who tried to tackle you but didn't aim a gun at you? Would that be a "good shoot?" What if he was beating on you?

Yes and yes and yes.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Just to be clear, instead of using methods to deter would be bad guys from considering you or your house for attack you picked the one thing that bad guys wouldn't know about until they were inside and only if you happen to be home at the same time?



You can't fix stupid, folks.

You're an asshole. You can fix it. Try harder next time.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

And you can go to jail for shooting an intruder.

Where the hell do you live?

 

[Paladin3]

What are the chances of that propeller+poop scenario in your estimation?

Firstly, for you, then for the average American?

Extremely low for me in the area where I live. So low that I would bet money I will never need a gun to defend my life. But I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Almost as low for the average American. The risk was low for me even back in Los Angeles County, Southern California where I grew up and worked most of my life. It was low when I lived in the Northeast San Francisco Bay area too.

That said, I was carjacked late one night back in 1999 in a restaurant drive-thru by a man with a knife. He leaned in the window and stuck a knife to my throat, but I was able to grab his arm and bail out of the car without getting hurt. He took my brand new car with about $10k in photo gear inside, and later crashed it and almost killed himself. At the time I was unable to carry a weapon because Los Angeles County basically refuses to issue permits to do so. If I had been armed I probably would have shot him, but fault myself for letting someone get that close to my car while I had the window down. Considering how it ended I feel lucky to have escaped injury and happy that I didn't have to take a life. Am I happy that I was defenseless at knife point? Heck, no! Do I value that car, my property and my safety over the life of the scumbag who carjacked me? Hell, yes! I'm just eternally grateful my wife and kids weren't in the car with me.

Don't try to paint me as paranoid because I'm not. I don't play the lottery because the odds of winning are very poor. Still, someone somewhere wins almost every week. I met and photographed many of them back when I was a newspaper photographer.

 

[Paladin3]

And you can go to jail for shooting an intruder.

It's funny how you seem to value the life of a criminal intruder, but not the right of an armed citizen to protect their own life against one.

 

[bradly1101]

Where the hell do you live?

Did you look at my link? I could live anywhere:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...ome..69i57.19755j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[bradly1101]

It's funny how you seem to value the life of a criminal intruder, but not the right of an armed citizen to protect their own life against one.

Yes that's what I said, a thief is a model citizen? I'm talking about the law, not me.

 

[Thebobo]

You're an asshole. You can fix it. Try harder next time.

Take this quiz and report back to us!

Are You A Troll?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Did you look at my link? I could live anywhere:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...ome..69i57.19755j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The link was about 3 or 4 blue States and the U.K. I didn't think it was an unreasonable question, but OK. I can kinda understand how scared you are about it.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Take this quiz and report back to us!

Are You A Troll?

Poor lil' snowflake, did you get triggered? Need a blankie and a puppy wuppy?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-law-basics/states-that-have-stand-your-ground-laws.html

Referencing this, beyond 'I shot a guy in the street because I felt threatened' scenarios, the following states have some form of 'stand your ground/castle law':

Here are the states that have passed stand your ground laws:

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Florida
Georgia
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Mississippi
Montana
Nevada
New Hampshire
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
West Virginia

... And these have a 'duty to retreat' law:

The following states impose some form of duty to retreat before using deadly self defense:

Arkansas
Connecticut
Delaware
Hawaii
Iowa
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Missouri
Minnesota
Nebraska
New Jersey
New York
North Dakota
Rhode Island
Wisconsin
Wyoming

I do not know, realistically, how a jury would convict someone who honestly and truly was threatened within their home and shot an intruder dead. I personally wouldn't convict, and would likely hang a jury before changing my mind. That may/may not change for other circumstances. If you aren't allowed to defend yourself on your own property, you aren't in control of your own safety, nor do you own the property, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Thebobo]

Poor lil' snowflake, did you get triggered? Need a blankie and a puppy wuppy?

Well I knew you might be a little resistant to taking it so I took it for you and this is your results. I would to remind you these are not my words. However I would consider it fairly accurate, no?

You are...
A Nasty Online Troll
Hey, shouldn't you be getting back to your spot under a bridge somewhere? As a real, nasty online troll, you lurk the internet for opportunities to bring others down with biting comments and cruel humor. You would even go as far as to find ways to digitally harass someone who has angered you or hurt your feelings. While it may seem like harmless fun, remember that these pranks aren't as unimportant as they may seem to be, and your comments and actions online can have a profound effect on people whether it seems like it or not. Try to realize that hurting others is only a self-protection mechanism and focus on solving your own esteem and self-worth issues instead of taking it out on others! And most importantly, remember that what goes around comes around!

 

[Paladin3]

Yes that's what I said, a thief is a model citizen? I'm talking about the law, not me.

I'm sure there are lots of situations where shooting a home invader wouldn't be justified. Or when someone protects themselves with an illegal or unregistered firearm like the first story in your link.

Mostly, though, it's legal to use a weapon in self-defense. Many states have the "stand your ground" laws that remove any legal requirement that you try to retreat before shooting, especially when in your home or car.

 

[bradly1101]

The link was about 3 or 4 blue States and the U.K. I didn't think it was an unreasonable question, but OK. I can kinda understand how scared you are about it.

Huh? Scared about being prosecuted for wounding/killing a thief? Scared about idiots/crazies/vengeful/scared people with guns?

Is North Carolina a blue state?

"The law makes the assumption that if someone is in the process of breaking into your home they are not doing so to sell you a Bible. The law presumes there is an intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence, and you have a right to shoot them while they are in the process of breaking in, if you fear you will lose your life. Once the person is physically in your home the circumstances change. If the perpetrator is armed with anything that can cause serious physical harm or death, and you fear for your life, you can shoot them. However, if there is no sign they are armed, and they are simply there to steal something, you may not shoot. You can use physical force to protect your property but not deadly physical force."

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/...-castle-law-to-shoot-or-not-to-shoot/6705605/

What about Minnesota?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/29/minnesota-homeowner-kills-teens/8480047/

 

[kage69]

Hmm where have I heard that recently? Woolf's not a general is he?

Wait, are you trying to liken my reaction to unnecessary profanity and insults to Sarah Sanders Huckabee's comment regarding questioning John Kelly?

Please tell me I'm reading that wrong, as I don't like the thought of you comparing apples to durian over me.

 

[Younigue]

I would argue that far more guns do not cause a problem than do. Remember, 99.9%+ guns in this country are never used to hurt anyone. Lots of families engage in shooting sports and hunting safely and raise their children to do so. So you are going to have to qualify "far too many cases" for us. Otherwise we are getting into "think of the children!" type arguments. I don't want to see a way of life brought to an end because we can't reduce the accident rate to absolute zero.

I would argue back that more people don't own guns than do.

"A way of life"? If you mean for hunting and protecting farms from predators, ok. But "a way of life" that is driven by fear and paranoia? That's not "a way of life" worth preserving.