What are legitimate reasons for citizens owning guns?

[mdram]

Maybe we should honor what the writers of the constitution knew of. Long barrel rifles that were slow to load. That is all they knew of so they probably thought it safe to allow people to own them as they knew one person couldnt take out 60 people himself. Maybe add in 6 shot revolvers as well if were feeling generous This way you can still hunt, sport, home defense etc. Just limits the damage a crazy could do with it before being taken out. If i remember right at the time of the civil war 3 shots in a minute was considered good. That guy today would be taken down after his first shot most likely. Assuming he even hit his target

remember, the arms the people had were the exact same as the military

as i have said before, its not a gun problem, its a people problem.
what percentage of those gun homicides are inner city youth on youth?
remove that and the suicide rate, and its a different story

so lets work on fixing the problem

 

[SNC]

what you say is true, but when there are children in the house, you need to take precautions. a loaded handgun in a biometric safe at the bedside would be the least secure method i would think about.

So teaching the kids not to touch them is completely out of the question?

 

[yllus]

I just recently purchased a Springfield 1911 Range Officer Champion.

Ooh nice. I love a nice .45.

 

[Atreus21]

I get what you're saying but if you have to get out of bed, get dressed, go to the cabinet, unlock it, take out the rifle, remove trigger lock, unlock bullets drawer, load rifle and then get to where the bad guy is all under duress, half of your stuff he stole is already pawned and he's smoking the proceeds. A locked gun in a cabinet is a waste of money when talking about self defence in your home. You would be much better off with an alarm or large dog. A handgun loaded under your bed is a much better option.

I thought of this and it can be mitigated. The idea is to store the shotgun in cruiser-ready condition, which if you're not familiar with it means storing the gun with the magazine tube loaded but the chamber empty, safety off. You grab it, rack it, and it's ready to fire. So the steps would be:

1. Wake up
2. Get up and get to the cabinet.
3. Enter combination.
4. Grab gun.
5. Rack a round in the chamber.
6. Ready.

If you train for that scenario, for example by setting an alarm for 1:00 AM to do a dry run and timing yourself to get to step 6, I think the complete process can be done in under 30 seconds. With enough training you could probably commit much of it to muscle-memory, so that being half-asleep isn't such a liability.

I agree with you about the large dog. As my children get older (my youngest is only 1) that option will become progressively more attractive.

 

[Atreus21]

So teaching the kids not to touch them is completely out of the question?

By itself, yes that's out of the question. No rule is violated as often and eagerly by children as "Don't touch this thing. Ever."

In the context of teaching them everything about the gun it makes more sense.

 

[SNC]

I thought of this and it can be mitigated. The idea is to store the shotgun in cruiser-ready condition, which if you're not familiar with it means storing the gun with the magazine tube loaded but the chamber empty, safety off. You grab it, rack it, and it's ready to fire. So the steps would be:

1. Wake up
2. Get up and get to the cabinet.
3. Enter combination.
4. Grab gun.
5. Rack a round in the chamber.
6. Ready.

If you train for that scenario, for example by setting an alarm for 1:00 AM to do a dry run and timing yourself to get to step 6, I think the complete process can be done in under 30 seconds. With enough training you could probably commit much of it to muscle-memory, so that being half-asleep isn't such a liability.

I agree with you about the large dog. As my children get older (my youngest is only 1) that option will become progressively more attractive.

So you think the guy standing over you with a gun is going to permit you to perform all those steps? Now if the guy is still outside then you're OK, if not you're SOL!

 

[SNC]

By itself, yes that's out of the question. No rule is violated as often and eagerly by children as "Don't touch this thing. Ever."

In the context of teaching them everything about the gun it makes more sense.

Hmmm I'll have to tell my 3 that they did it completely wrong.

 

[Atreus21]

So you think the guy standing over you with a gun is going to permit you to perform all those steps? Now if the guy is still outside then you're OK, if not you're SOL!

Well right, if he's already in the room the whole thing is moot. I'm purchasing a gun to give a me a good chance if I detect him before he detects me. Whereas without a gun it wouldn't really matter. It's intended to even the odds a bit, not provide guarantees.

But since having children I've become a very light sleeper - even a whimper from the 1 year old in the middle of the night, in a room on the other side of the house from me, I can detect and identify.

 

[Atreus21]

Hmmm I'll have to tell my 3 that they did it completely wrong.

Shrug. I can only go by my experience with mine sir. And the effect such warnings had on me when I was a kid.

 

[mdram]

So teaching the kids not to touch them is completely out of the question?

it is not out of the question. but also depends on age, does the child listen, will they ever have friends over.
my fathers firearms were in my parents closet, i knew to never touch them, not even the ones that he said were 'mine', unless told to.
they were not a mystery, we hunted and target shot, from age 5 or so.

there are too many variables for a blanket statement of anykind

 

[Thebobo]

remember, the arms the people had were the exact same as the military

as i have said before, its not a gun problem, its a people problem.
what percentage of those gun homicides are inner city youth on youth?
remove that and the suicide rate, and its a different story

so lets work on fixing the problem

Yep too many guns

 

[brandonbull]

And they got guns because you stole their land first ~

Only after they stole it from someone else

 

[SNC]

Only after they stole it from someone else

And that was?

 

[brandonbull]

And that was?

I guess we could consult their written historical records. You do realize that humans are not native to the new world and lands have changed "ownership" several times?

 

[bradly1101]

Oddly enough, taking out two key cities vastly lowers the numbers for the US. Make your own conclusion as to why.

Which two cities? Could the reason be (at least for suicides in certain cities) in the last sentence below (from link above)?

"Approximately 24 case-control and ecologic studies find that in homes and areas with more guns, there are more firearm suicides and more total suicides.13,14, 19, 20 The effect size is large; differences in overall suicide rates across cities, states, and regions in the United States are best explained not by differences in mental health, suicide ideation, or even attempts, but by availability of firearms.21"

 

[Younigue]

The actual reasons we own guns is that we think it is cool. Duh!!!!!

Anyone tell you it is about 2nd amendment, home safety, or personal defense is full of $hit. Guns make them feel better about themselves and they feel powerful while packing. We want to be like James Bond and Steve McQueen. That's really the whole reason we own guns.

And they think it makes their penis' bigger? More better? Scarier? Manlier then they know themselves to be with out the gun to enhance their penis physical appearance... Any way it has to do with their penis' in a big way for soooo many of them! Poor little fellas.

 

[Younigue]

You can already buy those from military surplus if you have the money.

Why is money a hold up? Just mint some more, like the government does. It would be the only fair thing given that we're likely going to have to fight them.

 

[Younigue]

I thought of this and it can be mitigated. The idea is to store the shotgun in cruiser-ready condition, which if you're not familiar with it means storing the gun with the magazine tube loaded but the chamber empty, safety off. You grab it, rack it, and it's ready to fire. So the steps would be:

1. Wake up
2. Get up and get to the cabinet.
3. Enter combination.
4. Grab gun.
5. Rack a round in the chamber.
6. Ready.

If you train for that scenario, for example by setting an alarm for 1:00 AM to do a dry run and timing yourself to get to step 6, I think the complete process can be done in under 30 seconds. With enough training you could probably commit much of it to muscle-memory, so that being half-asleep isn't such a liability.

I agree with you about the large dog. As my children get older (my youngest is only 1) that option will become progressively more attractive.

So all gun owning citizens should have law enforcement or military training that they put themselves through? Sounds legit or more likely that they are paranoid schizophrenics.

 

[Younigue]

Well right, if he's already in the room the whole thing is moot. I'm purchasing a gun to give a me a good chance if I detect him before he detects me. Whereas without a gun it wouldn't really matter. It's intended to even the odds a bit, not provide guarantees.

But since having children I've become a very light sleeper - even a whimper from the 1 year old in the middle of the night, in a room on the other side of the house from me, I can detect and identify.

Or escalating a situation that was only ever meant to be a threat, not a murder, in to death with an equal chance that the death will be that of any one in the house at the time.

Seems clever.

 

[theeedude]

Stopping fascism.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

I get what you're saying but if you have to get out of bed, get dressed, go to the cabinet, unlock it, take out the rifle, remove trigger lock, unlock bullets drawer, load rifle and then get to where the bad guy is all under duress, half of your stuff he stole is already pawned and he's smoking the proceeds. A locked gun in a cabinet is a waste of money when talking about self defence in your home. You would be much better off with an alarm or large dog. A handgun loaded under your bed is a much better option.

There are different ways to store firearms that allow extremely fast access and still keep the firearms safe from unauthorized users. It's really not that hard.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Maybe we should honor what the writers of the constitution knew of. Long barrel rifles that were slow to load. That is all they knew of so they probably thought it safe to allow people to own them as they knew one person couldnt take out 60 people himself. Maybe add in 6 shot revolvers as well if were feeling generous This way you can still hunt, sport, home defense etc. Just limits the damage a crazy could do with it before being taken out. If i remember right at the time of the civil war 3 shots in a minute was considered good. That guy today would be taken down after his first shot most likely. Assuming he even hit his target

uhhh, no, not even without thinking revolvers or lever action rifles, but good try.

 

[mdram]

Maybe we should honor what the writers of the constitution knew of. Long barrel rifles that were slow to load. That is all they knew of so they probably thought it safe to allow people to own them as they knew one person couldnt take out 60 people himself. Maybe add in 6 shot revolvers as well if were feeling generous This way you can still hunt, sport, home defense etc. Just limits the damage a crazy could do with it before being taken out. If i remember right at the time of the civil war 3 shots in a minute was considered good. That guy today would be taken down after his first shot most likely. Assuming he even hit his target

ever heard of the mad minute?
a bolt action in the hands of a trained shooter can be very fast, and accurate

 

[FerrelGeek]

Even if your wife doesn't ever want to shoot, she should take the class to learn how to safely handle the shotgun. Your kids should at least have the fundamental gun safety rules drilled into them.

I am. There's a cop who offers a one-on-one all day shotgun course for only $50. The guy who recommended me to him says he essentially considers it a public service, hence the low price.

Not buying any ammo until I take it, except maybe some dummy rounds.



I want my wife to take the class as well, but she's very resistant. My children are all under 7.

 

[WackyDan]

What motivated me to purchase a gun was a spike in crime in my immediate neighborhood - literally my neighbor across the street (carjacked in the middle of the day by two kids who put a gun in her face as she sat on her porch) and a neighbor about 8 houses down who's home was invaded in the middle of the night while she, mercifully, was out of town.

That type of brazenness shakes me. I have four small children, a wife, and a mother-in-law in this house. If someone comes through that door at 2AM, I've presently got a machete and a hatchet to defend myself and my family with. That's not going to cut it (so to speak).

So there are several things I could do: Get an alarm system, get a dog, get a gun, move, or some combination. Financially, alarms and dogs are recurrently costly. As a practical deterrent in a physical fight, alarms won't do any more immediate help than calling the police would; dogs would though, big ones at least. The shotgun I'm getting is under $200. The security cabinet for it is about $300. That's comparatively inexpensive.

One of the reasons I'm getting a shotgun is precisely because they're big and heavy - not easy for children to pick up, load, and fire, unlike handguns.

First... Your logic is a bit flawed. I support your intent to own a gun, but any professional firearm instructor is going to tell you that a gun is no replacement for a perimeter alarm. Whether that alarm is a dog that makes a lot of noise or an alarm system. Note: You can install an alarm system that is not monitored yet will still alert you when a door or window is opened/broken. In the middle of the day or night, if someone breaks into your home while you are there, you will not be prepared if you don't have an alarm or loud dog.

Professional instructors also recommend NOT keeping a firearm by the bed side unless it is locked. When you are startled in the middle of the night you need a moment for your head to clear and think properly - Hence the strong recommendation for some sort of alarm. V-Line makes a nice Rifle cabinet (and smaller handgun cabinet) that mounts between two housing studs and sits essentially flush to the wall. It has a 5 button push combination lock. So you press the buttons in the right sequence and you are instantly in and have your loaded firearm. I have the hand gun model in the bedroom. Two steps and I am at the safe and seconds later I am armed. By time they are actually in the house, I am armed and clear headed enough to act properly... and I'm not going to shoot a family member from my bedside. https://shop.factory-express.com/Pr...pXCiFbSVFuPZafDSRsqQ-wXjMWD3UuSxoC4BIQAvD_BwE

One last suggestion... Cameras. REAL cameras outside the house. I have three. One monitoring the driveway and cars, one monitoring the front of the house one way and one more camera pointing off the opposite side of the driveway. You can see them. They aren't huge, but they are obvious and they have LEDs that you can't miss at night. I also have a sign on the front of the Garage that I bought at home depot that says "smile for the camera". Our neighbor's vehicles were entered a couple of months back and valuables taken (they left them unlocked- wtf). The night it happened I never got any camera alerts except for the nightly 3am to 4am stroll a fluffy cat makes across our driveway. Nobody even entered our driveway to try and see if our cars were unlocked yet the two neighbors on either side of us had theft.

So please... A firearm is not the only answer to your security related concerns. It is only part of the solution, but should not be your first line of defense. If you ignore having and alarm or cameras, the gun may very well end up being useless to you. Kudos though for thinking about some sort of safe storage.