What are legitimate reasons for citizens owning guns?

[Vic]

LOL! Oh I see, you're one of those spectacular sort of morons. The gauge you use with which to determine my intelligence is in no way suspect (a.k.a. worthless). Also, you cracked me up by calling me "guy".

I see a smart, pretty and fantastic person when I look at myself in the mirror. In fact, I'm one of the best people I know.

#triggered

 

[Vic]

Ok! You've convinced me already. You're a moron (by choice?). That, that right there! That's how you're a part of the problem. Asked and answered... we good boo?

The GOP is destroying the middle class, and all you want to do is drive middle class voters into voting GOP and against their economic interests by fixating on taking their rights away so you can try to force some utopist dream. But I'm the idiot... Yeah, right.

 

[bradly1101]

No, greed and capitalism go hand in hand. Most of the iwi (Maori tribal entities) now operate as multi-million dollar corporates.

I'd certainly take some humility over the narcissism, entitlement and adversarial nature that most people express.

Yes, I just meant that returning land is pretty un-greedy for a modern government, even magnanimous, and is humble.

Here in the states (as you may know), native Americans are on "reservations." They have an independent law there and allow gambling in states where it is otherwise prohibited (edit: before becoming president, our leader tried to sue those rights away since they were cutting in on his gambling "empire" with the infamous words, "They don't look like Indians to me."). They rake in a windfall. I used to see this as some sort of restitution for their plight, reparations.

But now I see that we've just transferred our greed to folks who instead of raping the environment to live, used to be in harmony with it. We've come a long way baby!?

Edit #2: Regarding Trump's attempt to end Indian gaming in his state, he was right on two fronts; the lawyers for the Native Americans did't look like Indians, they weren't, and who in New York would want to go to Atlantic City, New Jersey to gamble when they could in NY at just as lavish (if not more) properties? Trump's gambling empire in NJ crumbled. Why is it so hard to have empathy for someone with so little humility or empathy himself?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Knowing the mind of another is indeed difficult, but if he is going for the car, isn't it likely to only escalate at the point of brandishing?

Likely? I don't know. All I would be able to tell is that this person doesn't care about my rights, has created the situation, and is using a deadly weapon to do so.

 

[Younigue]

The GOP is destroying the middle class, and all you want to do is drive middle class voters into voting GOP and against their economic interests by fixating on taking their rights away so you can try to force some utopist dream. But I'm the idiot... Yeah, right.

I don't believe in Utopia, all the more reason to get rid of guns.

We are in full agreement you're an idiot. Bold move admitting it.

 

[Vic]

I don't believe in Utopia, all the more reason to get rid of guns.

We are in full agreement you're an idiot. Bold move admitting it.

Hey, I get it. When you don't have an argument, you just call people names.
There's never going to be a world without guns. Hopefully you can manage to get over that someday.

 

[Atreus21]

Hey, I get it. When you don't have an argument, you just call people names.
There's never going to be a world without guns. Hopefully you can manage to get over that someday.

You're debating with younique, aren't you.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

You're debating with younique, aren't you.

I seriously started laughing when i read that. I hope you had a great Thanksgiving. I'm off to cook some leftovers.

 

[Atreus21]

I seriously started laughing when i read that. I hope you had a great Thanksgiving. I'm off to cook some leftovers.

Thank you sir. Doing the exact same thing.

 

[Jhhnn]

The GOP is destroying the middle class, and all you want to do is drive middle class voters into voting GOP and against their economic interests by fixating on taking their rights away so you can try to force some utopist dream. But I'm the idiot... Yeah, right.

Agreed. It's sad, but people aren't rational about guns after decades of fearmongering.

OTOH, I can't figure out why the Repub lootocracy is encouraging their victims to arm themselves. Seems a bit arrogant & short sighted.

 

[Vic]

You're debating with younique, aren't you.

Lol. It would seem that I did make the mistake of trying to play chess with a pigeon.

 

[Younigue]

Hey, I get it. When you don't have an argument, you just call people names.
There's never going to be a world without guns. Hopefully you can manage to get over that someday.

LOL. Sure and never.

 

[Vic]

Agreed. It's sad, but people aren't rational about guns after decades of fearmongering.

OTOH, I can't figure out why the Repub lootocracy is encouraging their victims to arm themselves. Seems a bit arrogant & short sighted.

Not at all shortsighted. Despite the "patriot" talk, peashooters and irregular militia are never going to be the slightest threat to the US government, while gun ownership in many communities confers a sense of prestige and reinforces ideas of good citizenship. If one can't be wealthy, one can at least be seen as a good trustworthy law abiding citizen.
At the same time, as only criminals are banned from owning guns under today's laws, an absolute ban on private gun ownership is perceived by many people as being labeled as a criminal, but without crime or trial. To people used to Jim Crow era laws that banned blacks from owning guns, there can also be a racial component.
I'm sure you'll disagree with this, but if anyone has been shortsighted on this issue, it's the Democrats. Sure, the Dems might be well-intentioned, but their gun banning rhetoric has been a disastrous political strategy which has only increased private gun ownership while costing them seats.
And for what? There are easier ways to reduce gun violence than a politically-impossible outright gun ban. Reasonable limitations on gun sales and a restoration of the mental health system would be a good start. You could remind gunowners that in their gun utopia of Switzerland, the buying and selling of firearms is strictly regulated, and the only gun in most homes is the one the government gave them during their term of mandatory national service. Or that Hitler didn't ban all Germans from owning guns, just the Jews and other minorities.
But the real solutions to gun violence, as well as for most crime IMO, are those things which Democrats always claim to be for, but have abandoned. Which are better public education, social justice, and economic opportunity.

Just my $0.02

 

[rh71]

But deer no shoot back!

 

[ivwshane]

Not at all shortsighted. Despite the "patriot" talk, peashooters and irregular militia are never going to be the slightest threat to the US government, while gun ownership in many communities confers a sense of prestige and reinforces ideas of good citizenship. If one can't be wealthy, one can at least be seen as a good trustworthy law abiding citizen.
At the same time, as only criminals are banned from owning guns under today's laws, an absolute ban on private gun ownership is perceived by many people as being labeled as a criminal, but without crime or trial. To people used to Jim Crow era laws that banned blacks from owning guns, there can also be a racial component.
I'm sure you'll disagree with this, but if anyone has been shortsighted on this issue, it's the Democrats. Sure, the Dems might be well-intentioned, but their gun banning rhetoric has been a disastrous political strategy which has only increased private gun ownership while costing them seats.
And for what? There are easier ways to reduce gun violence than a politically-impossible outright gun ban. Reasonable limitations on gun sales and a restoration of the mental health system would be a good start. You could remind gunowners that in their gun utopia of Switzerland, the buying and selling of firearms is strictly regulated, and the only gun in most homes is the one the government gave them during their term of mandatory national service. Or that Hitler didn't ban all Germans from owning guns, just the Jews and other minorities.
But the real solutions to gun violence, as well as for most crime IMO, are those things which Democrats always claim to be for, but have abandoned. Which are better public education, social justice, and economic opportunity.

Just my $0.02

They have abandoned? Shut the fuck up. What an utterly idiotic thing to say.

 

[Vic]

They have abandoned? Shut the fuck up. What an utterly idiotic thing to say.

Maybe abandoned was a poor choice of words. How about, de-prioritized?

 

[ivwshane]

Maybe abandoned was a poor choice of words. How about, de-prioritized?

No, that's equally as bad. If you want to complain you could say their national message may be lacking but to say their priorities have changed is just complete bullshit.

 

[Vic]

No, that's equally as bad. If you want to complain you could say their national message may be lacking but to say their properties have changed is just complete bullshit.

Well then, more needs to be done. I'm not judging, I'm just speaking my mind. Maybe it just pisses me off that, in poor neighborhoods, the teachers get paid half as much as the cops waiting to take the students to prisons, because there aren't any jobs for them anyway. I expect that the Republican solution to this problem is even more cops and tactics like stop and frisk (which denies gun rights) because 'the community' can't police itself. I expect that. What pisses me off is that the Democratic solution is effectively the same thing.

 

[ivwshane]

Well then, more needs to be done. I'm not judging, I'm just speaking my mind. Maybe it just pisses me off that, in poor neighborhoods, the teachers get paid half as much as the cops waiting to take the students to prisons, because there aren't any jobs for them anyway. I expect that the Republican solution to this problem is even more cops and tactics like stop and frisk (which denies gun rights) because 'the community' can't police itself. I expect that. What pisses me off is that the Democratic solution is effectively the same thing.

Its effectively the same thing because the Democrats effectively have no power. The dems were outplayed for almost a decade politically due to incompetence (you can see it even more clearly listening to donna brazile take on what was going on behind the scenes).

If you listen to their messaging and look at their policies you would agree that your "both sides" claim is complete bullshit. You don't hear their messaging because it's drowned out by the daily incompetence of this current administration.

 

[Vic]

Its effectively the same thing because the Democrats effectively have no power. The dems were outplayed for almost a decade politically due to incompetence (you can see it even more clearly listening to donna brazile take on what was going on behind the scenes).

If you listen to their messaging and look at their policies you would agree that your "both sides" claim is complete bullshit. You don't hear their messaging because it's drowned out by the daily incompetence of this current administration.

No, it's effectively the same thing because it is effectively the same thing. The Republican solution to inner city crime is to treat blacks like criminals and disarm them. The Democratic solution is to treat everyone like criminals and disarm them.
Neither solution will solve the problem because neither solution addresses the real problems. Which are the lack of adequate public education, social justice, and economic opportunity.

 

[ivwshane]

No, it's effectively the same thing because it is effectively the same thing. The Republican solution to inner city crime is to treat blacks like criminals and disarm them. The Democratic solution is to treat everyone like criminals and disarm them.
Neither solution will solve the problem because neither solution addresses the real problems. Which are the lack of adequate public education, social justice, and economic opportunity.

Both sides (tm)




/rollseyes

 

[jackstar7]

No, it's effectively the same thing because it is effectively the same thing. The Republican solution to inner city crime is to treat blacks like criminals and disarm them. The Democratic solution is to treat everyone like criminals and disarm them.
Neither solution will solve the problem because neither solution addresses the real problems. Which are the lack of adequate public education, social justice, and economic opportunity.

But you're then actively ignoring that the Dems agenda includes education, social justice, and economic opportunity. And demonstrated by their current actions in power, the R's care about none of that shit.

 

[Ranulf]

So people with guns should not be feared. You make a lot of sense. You've got it all sorted out.

I've said it before now I'm saying it again, if it were up to me I'd stomp all over all civilians "rights" to own guns. It's fu*king absurd, in this day and age it should NOT be a right. No way, no how did 2A account for a gun nut fu*king crazy nation with today's guns. No way did 2A take in to consideration that lobbyist and the like would not only promote gun ownership but hype the cause to near if not all-out brainwashing propaganda about need and personal "rights". Neither could it predict a future government being bought by this specific special interest. Or that the country would go so completely nuts about guns.

Yeah, you're right. I don't get it. Not from your perspective or any gun nut or enthusiast or lackadaisical dimwit or criminal or "responsible" gun owner. "Responsible"? You lost the point before you've even begun. In a first world country... There should be no need for its people to behave like third world people fighting just for the right to live.

But you're a true believer and a lost cause with your pathetic righteous indignation. It's only righteous because you call it a "right" and again it should NOT be. No matter how you slice it, it's a stupid "right" to have. But then you have a right to be stupid as well and with gun owners the two mean the same exact thing? Thanks for clearing that up I suppose. It's like magic the way you just did that.

I appreciate your honesty, further proof that discussion is a lost cause indeed. But why not try, for fun anyway.

What else that is currently a right that you might wish to "stomp all over", civilian or otherwise? Habeas Corpus? How will you enforce those laws? Men with guns? Taxmen with guns (and swat teams these days) who seize bank accounts or people for not paying student loans? Does a person have the inherent natural right of self defense? Or is it just a right to call 911 on their cell phone? How about a baseball bat? Is a nail gun ok? One's own fist? Or shall we just call big brother, mommy government when attacked and hope Mr. police "person" solves the problem (they'll have guns). If you're so concerned with lobbyists, ban them or put more extreme limits on them. The NRA and others are hardly the most powerful lobbyists in DC. That is propaganda that benefits both sides more than the individual citizen. The most powerful would be wall street, big pharma/medicine, big agriculture, and energy/fuel companies.

First world country eh? Seems rather bigoted. There are plenty of parts of the so called first world that are quite third world like. No self defense for people living in those slums, ghettos, barrios, or trailerparks? Just more cops, with guns and the threat of violence from the system if they step out of line!

"There should be no need..." but what constitutes a need? Do you need broadband in your life? Cable tv? HVAC? Two cars? A new set of golf clubs? New shoes that get worn once a year? That Harley/Classic car you never drive? New video card that can get over 60fps in all games at all times? 144hz refresh in 4k? That NVME pro drive over a sata ssd? Do you really need the government to pay for or subsidize birth control pills? Rubbers? Drug needles or methodone clinics? Abortions? Boy howdy there sure are some who are all about the "personal rights" to get an abortion, to the point of brainwashing propaganda where everyone is told it should be provided for free by the government. Not just the "right" to get one, but its paid for by everybody else. We should pass a law to subsidize gun owner ship. A chicken in every pot, a glock in every nightstand!

As for my earlier comment regarding mental health drugs, those drugs in people under 25 have stated side effects of causing suicidal/homicidal thoughts. The ssri's show up on scene, along with the emptying of traditional "loony bins" for the crazy and all of sudden you have horrific mass shootings happening more and more. But lets blame guns. Not the people who use them to enforce their will, whatever that may be.

Also, "Or that the country would go so completely nuts about guns." is one of the most hilarious dumb things I've ever read or heard on the self defense/guns argument. This country was founded because of the right to self defense, the right to own the means to do so via guns and cannon. It was in many ways a second English civil war, which was also in great part about who had the right to be armed or rather who gave that right, the elected parliament or the king. But no, firearms rights are just a recent thing, hyped up by a bunch of gun totin rednecks who are brainwashed idiots who should get with the picture man. Contemporize man, its the first world!

 

[Ranulf]

But you're then actively ignoring that the Dems agenda includes education, social justice, and economic opportunity. And demonstrated by their current actions in power, the R's care about none of that shit.

And Baltimore, LA, Chicago, Oakland, Memphis, Detroit, St. Louis and Atlanta are shining beacons on the hills of education, justice and economic opportunity.

 

[jackstar7]

And Baltimore, LA, Chicago, Oakland, Memphis, Detroit, St. Louis and Atlanta are shining beacons on the hills of education, justice and economic opportunity.

Have you lived in any of those cities? I've lived and worked in 3.

You citing them in this way makes it sound like you've just swallowed a fat hog of propaganda.