What are legitimate reasons for citizens owning guns?

[pcgeek11]

Your second mistake was thinking that because you oppose something, that limits on those rights aren't really limits.

The original claim was that gun nutters have no problem with other rights being curtailed.

So you continue to dodge and weave. Typical of you. Carry on with your BS.

All rights have limits such as the limits on abortion, limits on gun ownership etc... already in place.

Since you refuse to converse honestly I have nothing else to say to you.

 

[ivwshane]

So you continue to dodge and weave. Typical of you. Carry on with your BS.

All rights have limits such as the limits on abortion, limits on gun ownership etc... already in place.

Since you refuse to converse honestly I have nothing else to say to you.

Continue your projecting.

 

[Puffnstuff]

There's already concealed carry laws in every state, the difference is that only the wealthy and the politically connected can obtain them in restrictive states.

This change eliminates the need for interstate reciprocity which currently doesn't extend to all 50 states.

 

[soundforbjt]

Be specific.

Voting rights, a free ID which is neither free nor readily available in close proximity of where the people affected live due to closing DMVs in those areas, never mind the fact there’s nothing showing they are even needed.

 

[mdram]

Voting rights, a free ID which is neither free nor readily available in close proximity of where the people affected live due to closing DMVs in those areas, never mind the fact there’s nothing showing they are even needed.

then why require an id to buy a gun? its just as oppresive for the same people?
or a background check? why not require one to register to vote to be certain the person is a citizen and not a felon?

 

[ivwshane]

then why require an id to buy a gun? its just as oppresive for the same people?
or a background check? why not require one to register to vote to be certain the person is a citizen and not a felon?

/facepalm

People are required to register to vote.

The issue with voter ID laws, which pcgeek disingenuously tried to frame, is that the ID's or the documents required to get them are not free and amount to a poll tax, which is expressly prohibited in the constitution and which no other right has such an explicit protection.

 

[mdram]

/facepalm

People are required to register to vote.

The issue with voter ID laws, which pcgeek disingenuously tried to frame, is that the ID's or the documents required to get them are not free and amount to a poll tax, which is expressly prohibited in the constitution and which no other right has such an explicit protection.

really? so 'shall not be infringed' isnt explicit enough?

or what abot the first?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

requiring a permit for a rally? or fee to file a petition?

 

[ivwshane]

really? so 'shall not be infringed' isnt explicit enough?

or what abot the first?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

requiring a permit for a rally? or fee to file a petition?

Yep, and all of those have been ruled by the supreme court that restrictions on those rights are ok. So I guess I should have been more specific and stated that a poll tax is expressly forbidden in the constitution and the supreme courts have upheld that rule.

 

[Paladin3]

None.

The USA has 5x as many guns per capita as the next most armed developed nation. It's unconscionable and unnecessary.

If guns become illegal to own, eventually they won't be in the people's possession. What's the point of harboring a gun if the revelation of that fact will make you a felon?

As I envision it now:

Suppose you are a hunter and want to shoot game. OK, you have to be registered to do that. A gun would not remain in your possession, you'd have to check it out of a facility, have a plan and a similarly vetted buddy to shoot.

If you are a cop or in military, you are vetted and trained. I don't believe in cops walking around with guns strapped to their waists or in their cars. Only special personnel have access and it's tightly controlled.

If you live on a farm and need guns for critter control, you have to demonstrate/document a specific need, and like hunters, check out weapons and return them.

Murder is illegal, will make you a felon and is punishable by death in many places. Why hasn't murder gone away? And don't get me started on the prohibition of illegal drugs and how well everyone complies with that law.

 

[Paladin3]

That’s why libertarians are the only principled people in most discussions about rights. Otherwise you have nanny state leftists trying to save you from Happy Meals and right to bear arms. Or authoritarian rightists trying to outlaw abortion and the existence of LGTBQ people.

Everyone wants to install their own brand of control.

 

[Paladin3]

Just want to mention I'm in the market for a KelTec PMR30... 31 rounds of .22 mag in my hand. Will be an awesome plinker, might even carry it sometimes.

I've met several hunters who carry one along with their deer rifle because it's so light and a great round for small game hunting. It'll put a lot of grouse or rabbits on the grill back at the deer camp.

$339 @ GunPrime but I hear their shipping can be high. Plus you'll have to pay a transfer fee to your local FFL dealer.

 

[Paladin3]

Abortion, voting, drugs, just to name a few.

This whole new war on opioids is scaring me because I fear law enforcement will go after the low hanging fruit of doctors prescribing pain meds to patients who legit need them. Just like making OTC cold medicine harder to get did so much to stem the meth epidemic.

The war on drugs is big business for law enforcement and the prisons and they are gonna do whatever they must to protect their jobs and budgets. I sure would like to see that money spent on clean drugs, medical treatment and better rehab programs for addicts.

 

[Paladin3]

Continue your projecting.

Dude, you say some stuff and make some personal attacks that really undercut your credibility as someone interested in honest debate. But you're definitely not the worst offender and I like reading most of your posts.

 

[bshole]

I've met several hunters who carry one along with their deer rifle because it's so light and a great round for small game hunting. It'll put a lot of grouse or rabbits on the grill back at the deer camp.

$339 @ GunPrime but I hear their shipping can be high. Plus you'll have to pay a transfer fee to your local FFL dealer.

LoL hunting grouse with .22 pistol.... I am a bit dubious about putting a lot of grouse on the table using that.

 

[Paladin3]

Voting rights, a free ID which is neither free nor readily available in close proximity of where the people affected live due to closing DMVs in those areas, never mind the fact there’s nothing showing they are even needed.

How does someone work, go to public school, rent an apartment or buy a home, or qualify for any services without some type of identification? We can deny someone without a social security number and photo ID or birth certificate the ability to get a job, but that's too much to ask of them when they vote?

Call it a poll tax for political reasons, but we have no problem taxing the ability to earn a living and feed yourself. Heck, we tax the purchase of food in many states.

 

[ivwshane]

Dude, you say some stuff and make some personal attacks that really undercut your credibility as someone interested in honest debate. But you're definitely not the worst offender and I like reading most of your posts.

Sorry, the guy has a history of just outright lying. In his previous posts he continued the theme and used a straw man to make a point. Some people just aren't worth having a conversation with.

I'm certainly no role model poster and people think I'm not worth having a conversation with and I can't say I blame them but what I am not is a liar nor am I a hypocrite who is incapable of admitting when I'm being a hypocrite. I can't say the same for pcgeek.

 

[Paladin3]

LoL hunting grouse with .22 pistol.... I am a bit dubious about putting a lot of grouse on the table using that.

They just sit on the branch and let you get mighty close around here. Small gauge shotgun or .22 to the head. Native Americans traditionally took them with rocks and sticks.

 

[soundforbjt]

How does someone work, go to public school, rent an apartment or buy a home, or qualify for any services without some type of identification? We can deny someone without a social security number and photo ID or birth certificate the ability to get a job, but that's too much to ask of them when they vote?

Call it a poll tax for political reasons, but we have no problem taxing the ability to earn a living and feed yourself. Heck, we tax the purchase of food in many states.

Search any of the voter ID threads, it’s all been explained.

 

[pcgeek11]

Voting rights, a free ID which is neither free nor readily available in close proximity of where the people affected live due to closing DMVs in those areas, never mind the fact there’s nothing showing they are even needed.

That is a bs excuse and it always has been. They are not removing any rights anymore that getting a background check for a firearm.

 

[jackstar7]

That is a bs excuse and it always has been. They are not removing any rights anymore that getting a background check for a firearm.

Should everyone have a gun in order to vote? You seem to be connecting disparate things, so why not take it further?

 

[mdram]

Should everyone have a gun in order to vote? You seem to be connecting disparate things, so why not take it further?

its almost impossible in this day and age to do anything without an id

 

[imported_tajmahal]

This change eliminates the need for interstate reciprocity which currently doesn't extend to all 50 states.

Yes it does. It's a good thing.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Should everyone have a gun in order to vote? You seem to be connecting disparate things, so why not take it further?

You have a right to a lawyer, if you cannot afford a lawyer one will be provided for you.
If you can't afford a gun the government should have to buy you one.

 

[jackstar7]

its almost impossible in this day and age to do anything without an id

Ha! Let me guess, you're a freedom-loving authoritarian, right?

 

[mdram]

Ha! Let me guess, you're a freedom-loving authoritarian, right?

nope, but you cant cash a check, get a library card, rent a hotel room, get on a plane, get welfare, get food stamps, file for social security, ect without an id

so why not have one to vote? it would help eliminate voter fruad