What are legitimate reasons for citizens owning guns?

[Younigue]

https://www.pyramydair.com/info/Replica_Airsoft_Guns/42
Ignorance.

Ignorant.

Sad-for-you <--- say it all as one word, it's fun!

 

[ivwshane]

https://www.pyramydair.com/info/Replica_Airsoft_Guns/42
Ignorance.

The orange tip really adds to their authenticity!

 

[Vic]

My argument was the exact opposite of yours. Banning guns and having but back programs and confiscation through normal means (ie when criminals are caught), is pretty cheap compared to the overall costs of having guns, administration costs, health care costs, police counter weapons, etc. I also countered that the right to own guns is a recent right and can be changed the same way it was changed in 2008. A right is right until its not.

No offense, but people like you, so righteous in the rights that you enjoy that care nothing for the rights that others enjoy, are IMO a big reason why Trump is President. Pretty cheap, you say. Your logic is the same nonsense the Drug Warriors used. Oh, if only for <scapegoat> we wouldn't have crime!

 

[Younigue]

No offense, but people like you, so righteous in the rights that you enjoy that care nothing for the rights that others enjoy, are IMO a big reason why Trump is President. Pretty cheap, you say. Your logic is the same nonsense the Drug Warriors used. Oh, if only for <scapegoat> we wouldn't have crime!

No, it's people like you confusing what their rights should be because of fear and paranoia rather than believing the country can be better than its fear and crime. It's a fu*king epidemic this idea that the people MUST lower themselves to the lowest of its people in order to survive. Act like it's a war torn country, create a country at war with itself. Get it? Nah, I know you don't.

 

[twjr]

Sorry, second reply:

History shows over and over that when a "more advanced" culture encounters a "less advanced" culture, the less advanced lose (even if they don't fight back). They lose their lives, their customs, their territory, and their spirit [edit: down the barrel of a gun]. That's heroic? Who's truly advanced? The natives or the invaders/destroyers/builders?

It happened here, Australia, Central and South America... It's happening right now in the Middle East (The Saudis are laying waste to Yemen and her people. They can do that because of their superior, American firepower), and ex-colonial Africa.

Don't get me wrong, I love this country and all she could be, her promises. I can't ignore facts though and whitewash history.

On the whole I absolutely agree. I think sordid is a pretty polite way to describe the genocide and cultural devastation that occurred from the 16th century under the guise of "colonisation".

From experience the way New Zealand has handled it is the best of a bad bunch. The Maori fought the initial settlers hard enough that the English signed the Treaty of Waitangi. While there are some problems due to mistranslation and misinterpretation that resulted in misappropriation of land there have been significant steps taken to redress land rights. The Treaty is one of New Zealand's founding documents and underpins legislation.

I compare that to where I live currently, Australia, and they are decades, if not centuries, behind in recognition and redress for the traditional owners. Hell, aboriginal Australians only became citizens in 1967.

 

[Ranulf]

No, it's people like you confusing what their rights should be because of fear and paranoia rather than believing the country can be better than its fear and crime. It's a fu*king epidemic this idea that the people MUST lower themselves to the lowest of its people in order to survive. Act like it's a war torn country, create a country at war with itself. Get it? Nah, I know you don't.

Fear and paranoia, like getting people hopped up on anti-depressant goofballs like SSRI drugs and then ignoring the effects of those drugs when a few people go nuts and shoot up malls, schools, and other assorted venues. Act like every problem needs a mood elevator, create a country dependent on them and at war with itself. I don't mind hippy dreamers who want a better world without fear and crime but I don't want them making laws or voting. They seldom have to deal with the consequences of their actions (they have body guards and gated communities).

 

[imported_tajmahal]

The orange tip really adds to their authenticity!

Probably a very difficult task to make it black. Considering how hard you think it is to get a replica firearm it's probably far beyond your abilities to wield a black Sharpie or some black paint. It's so complicated and hard, right?

 

[ivwshane]

No offense, but people like you, so righteous in the rights that you enjoy that care nothing for the rights that others enjoy, are IMO a big reason why Trump is President. Pretty cheap, you say. Your logic is the same nonsense the Drug Warriors used. Oh, if only for <scapegoat> we wouldn't have crime!

I'm using your same logic guy. If you don't like it then you should be as offended with your logic as I was.

 

[ivwshane]

Probably a very difficult task to make it black. Considering how hard you think it is to get a replica firearm it's probably far beyond your abilities to wield a black Sharpie or some black paint. It's so complicated and hard, right?

I'm pretty sure that's illegal but that's ok, you missed my point anyway. Par for the course for you. Its sad that at this point in your life you are still this stupid, it's ok, I'm sure it will all be over soon.

 

[Younigue]

Fear and paranoia, like getting people hopped up on anti-depressant goofballs like SSRI drugs and then ignoring the effects of those drugs when a few people go nuts and shoot up malls, schools, and other assorted venues. Act like every problem needs a mood elevator, create a country dependent on them and at war with itself. I don't mind hippy dreamers who want a better world without fear and crime but I don't want them making laws or voting. They seldom have to deal with the consequences of their actions (they have body guards and gated communities).

The prescribed drug situation is out of control as well but I don't think I'm connecting the dots with what you're trying to say here.

 

[Vic]

No, it's people like you confusing what their rights should be because of fear and paranoia rather than believing the country can be better than its fear and crime. It's a fu*king epidemic this idea that the people MUST lower themselves to the lowest of its people in order to survive. Act like it's a war torn country, create a country at war with itself. Get it? Nah, I know you don't.

You're confusing me with someone else. And clearly have no clue. I totally get it that you want to be able to be safe without having to be armed, but the solution to that isn't to deny people of their basic rights. All you're doing is feeding the arguments of the gun nuts you claim to be against with ironically your own fear and paranoia. You may as well be one of them.

 

[Vic]

I'm using your same logic guy. If you don't like it then you should be as offended with your logic as I was.

No, you're not. My logic says that you can't stop crime by turning people into criminals. That the cost of a gun ban will be as expensive, failed, and counterproductive as the war on drugs has been. That attempts to ban guns in America's political climate are counterproductive to achieving any reasonable gun legislation.
Your only argument has been that you don't care about that and play some kind troll game like you're using any logic at all.

 

[Vic]

Fear and paranoia, like getting people hopped up on anti-depressant goofballs like SSRI drugs and then ignoring the effects of those drugs when a few people go nuts and shoot up malls, schools, and other assorted venues. Act like every problem needs a mood elevator, create a country dependent on them and at war with itself. I don't mind hippy dreamers who want a better world without fear and crime but I don't want them making laws or voting. They seldom have to deal with the consequences of their actions (they have body guards and gated communities).

Well thank God someone came along to prove that 'conservatives' are still stupider and more authoritarian than 'liberals.' But only just barely.

 

[bradly1101]

On the whole I absolutely agree. I think sordid is a pretty polite way to describe the genocide and cultural devastation that occurred from the 16th century under the guise of "colonisation".

From experience the way New Zealand has handled it is the best of a bad bunch. The Maori fought the initial settlers hard enough that the English signed the Treaty of Waitangi. While there are some problems due to mistranslation and misinterpretation that resulted in misappropriation of land there have been significant steps taken to redress land rights. The Treaty is one of New Zealand's founding documents and underpins legislation.

I compare that to where I live currently, Australia, and they are decades, if not centuries, behind in recognition and redress for the traditional owners. Hell, aboriginal Australians only became citizens in 1967.

So to de-greed is possible for modern capitalistic structures. Humility is a virtue?

 

[Younigue]

You're confusing me with someone else. And clearly have no clue. I totally get it that you want to be able to be safe without having to be armed, but the solution to that isn't to deny people of their basic rights. All you're doing is feeding the arguments of the gun nuts you claim to be against with ironically your own fear and paranoia. You may as well be one of them.

So people with guns should not be feared. You make a lot of sense. You've got it all sorted out.

I've said it before now I'm saying it again, if it were up to me I'd stomp all over all civilians "rights" to own guns. It's fu*king absurd, in this day and age it should NOT be a right. No way, no how did 2A account for a gun nut fu*king crazy nation with today's guns. No way did 2A take in to consideration that lobbyist and the like would not only promote gun ownership but hype the cause to near if not all-out brainwashing propaganda about need and personal "rights". Neither could it predict a future government being bought by this specific special interest. Or that the country would go so completely nuts about guns.

Yeah, you're right. I don't get it. Not from your perspective or any gun nut or enthusiast or lackadaisical dimwit or criminal or "responsible" gun owner. "Responsible"? You lost the point before you've even begun. In a first world country... There should be no need for its people to behave like third world people fighting just for the right to live.

But you're a true believer and a lost cause with your pathetic righteous indignation. It's only righteous because you call it a "right" and again it should NOT be. No matter how you slice it, it's a stupid "right" to have. But then you have a right to be stupid as well and with gun owners the two mean the same exact thing? Thanks for clearing that up I suppose. It's like magic the way you just did that.

 

[Younigue]

Well thank God someone came along to prove that 'conservatives' are still stupider and more authoritarian than 'liberals.' But only just barely.

It's much more pronounced and extensive than that. See, it's just that conservatives are too stupid to see how stupid they are.

 

[twjr]

So to de-greed is possible for modern capitalistic structures. Humility is a virtue?

No, greed and capitalism go hand in hand. Most of the iwi (Maori tribal entities) now operate as multi-million dollar corporates.

I'd certainly take some humility over the narcissism, entitlement and adversarial nature that most people express.

 

[ivwshane]

No, you're not. My logic says that you can't stop crime by turning people into criminals. That the cost of a gun ban will be as expensive, failed, and counterproductive as the war on drugs has been. That attempts to ban guns in America's political climate are counterproductive to achieving any reasonable gun legislation.
Your only argument has been that you don't care about that and play some kind troll game like you're using any logic at all.

Now you are using a straw man, try again.

 

[Vic]

So people with guns should not be feared. You make a lot of sense. You've got it all sorted out.

I've said it before now I'm saying it again, if it were up to me I'd stomp all over all civilians "rights" to own guns. It's fu*king absurd, in this day and age it should NOT be a right. No way, no how did 2A account for a gun nut fu*king crazy nation with today's guns. No way did 2A take in to consideration that lobbyist and the like would not only promote gun ownership but hype the cause to near if not all-out brainwashing propaganda about need and personal "rights". Neither could it predict a future government being bought by this specific special interest. Or that the country would go so completely nuts about guns.

Yeah, you're right. I don't get it. Not from your perspective or any gun nut or enthusiast or lackadaisical dimwit or criminal or "responsible" gun owner. "Responsible"? You lost the point before you've even begun. In a first world country... There should be no need for its people to behave like third world people fighting just for the right to live.

But you're a true believer and a lost cause with your pathetic righteous indignation. It's only righteous because you call it a "right" and again it should NOT be. No matter how you slice it, it's a stupid "right" to have. But then you have a right to be stupid as well and with gun owners the two mean the same exact thing? Thanks for clearing that up I suppose. It's like magic the way you just did that.

Maybe someone needs to take away your right to free speech until you can learn to use it responsibly. Because I did not use or say any of those arguments you're attributing to me.

 

[Vic]

Now you are using a straw man, try again.

Cool story, bro.

Yaknow, my argument was simple. Banning guns would be prohibitively expensive, to the point that the cost of prohibition would exceed the value any benefits actually realized. Because America doesn't do prohibitions. FFS, we spent decades trying to force potheads stop smoking pot, and now pot is bigger than ever.
And while I agreed with you that public opinion is malleable and American attitudes might change sometime in the future so that a ban might be practical, I also argued that premature attempts to ban guns would result (have resulted) in a backlash of public opinion, pushing your gun free utopia that much further off into the future.
Please feel free to address anything there you disagree with.

 

[Vic]

It's much more pronounced and extensive than that. See, it's just that conservatives are too stupid to see how stupid they are.

After that last post of yours, you might want to try looking in a mirror, guy. At least he's smart enough to wait until his party is firmly in power before bragging about how he's entitled to strip his political opposition of their basic rights. IMO, that makes him a lot smarter than you.

 

[Younigue]

Maybe someone needs to take away your right to free speech until you can learn to use it responsibly. Because I did not use or say any of those arguments you're attributing to me.

Yeah because free speech can blow someone's head off.

It doesn't matter if you specifically made those arguments. You're part of the problem. You are welcome to stop engaging me on this topic if you don't like how it's going. That's your "right". And a common sense "right" at that.

 

[Younigue]

After that last post of yours, you might want to try looking in a mirror, guy. At least he's smart enough to wait until his party is firmly in power before bragging about how he's entitled to strip his political opposition of their basic rights. IMO, that makes him a lot smarter than you.

LOL! Oh I see, you're one of those spectacular sort of morons. The gauge you use with which to determine my intelligence is in no way suspect (a.k.a. worthless). Also, you cracked me up by calling me "guy".

I see a smart, pretty and fantastic person when I look at myself in the mirror. In fact, I'm one of the best people I know.

 

[Vic]

Yeah because free speech can blow someone's head off.

It doesn't matter if you specifically made those arguments. You're part of the problem. You are welcome to stop engaging me on this topic if you don't like how it's going. That's your "right". And a common sense "right" at that.

What problem am I apart of exactly?

 

[Younigue]

What problem am I apart of exactly?

Ok! You've convinced me already. You're a moron (by choice?). That, that right there! That's how you're a part of the problem. Asked and answered... we good boo?