What a day! Man gets married, gets shot and killed while fighting with a cop

[Nebor]

they are still answerable to the public. The business just pays extra money to have more of them around.

I don't understand where you are getting this privatized police force idea from, but that is not what happens here.

It seems that the British have pretty strict expectations of their police officers. This article would seem laughable in the US.

Canada & Australia both allow off duty officers to work security jobs though.

 

[WelshBloke]

And they are paid for 24/7 service as police officers. Even federal law enforcement officers are paid "law enforcement availability pay" over and above their GS pay grade to compensate them for the fact that they are always expected to perform their duties when required, regardless of whether they're on duty or not.

If their department chooses to allow them to work "off-duty" jobs, they are still police officers while performing that job. The business is paying for them to to concentrate their efforts in a particular location, with the approval of the department.

If they are getting paid for 24/7 service they shouldnt be getting paid by someone else.
Would that work in an office? "I'm getting paid for my 8 hours but I'm going to nip off and work for someone else for a few hours around 14:00"

I'm not sure what the alternative is. If all of their work were publicly funded with taxes, every business would request "extra" protection, and the system wouldn't work. Security guards are a tricky proposition because they don't have arrest powers in most states, along with some other legal differences.

Its up to you guys ultimately but I think most other western countries work without contracting out their policemen and it works for them.
It depends on what you want your police force to be I suppose.

 

[Red Squirrel]

You have me confused.

I believe the chain of events is:

Off-duty uniformed cop chases suspect involved in an assault
They tussle at a sidewalk later on
Suspect pins officer to sidewalk during struggle, and strikes him repeatedly in the face, causing him to lose consciousness.
Officer pulls out his service weapon while getting hammer fisted and shoots him twice.



I'm not aware of a 2nd officer up until and after the shooting.

The video is kinda unclear but I thought the person running was another officer and I thought it was where the shot came from, but looking again it may be a random person so it was the victim cop that shot? So if it was 1vs1 then that changes a lot, and was probably justified.

 

[JumBie]

It seems that the British have pretty strict expectations of their police officers. This article would seem laughable in the US.

Canada & Australia both allow off duty officers to work security jobs though.

In Canada cops make over $100,000 a year, some are making over $150,000. They get paid incredible amounts of money to stand at intersections, to stand near construction sites, to stand outside of buildings, etc...

 

[mizzou]

The video is kinda unclear but I thought the person running was another officer and I thought it was where the shot came from, but looking again it may be a random person so it was the victim cop that shot? So if it was 1vs1 then that changes a lot, and was probably justified.

correct. That's partly why his face got pounded in so badly (can't post the link NSFW), because he was unholstering his firearm.

Granted, he may have had his hand there anyway just in case he feared the other guy was going to take it.

 

[BoomerD]

If they are getting paid for 24/7 service they shouldnt be getting paid by someone else.
Would that work in an office? "I'm getting paid for my 8 hours but I'm going to nip off and work for someone else for a few hours around 14:00"



Its up to you guys ultimately but I think most other western countries work without contracting out their policemen and it works for them.
It depends on what you want your police force to be I suppose.

Are you paid hourly or monthly? If you're salaried, would your employer care if you worked a side job as long as it didn't interfere with your regular job...and didn't cause a conflict of interest?

 

[Nintendesert]

I'm hard on bad cops, this guy doesn't look like a bad cop. Once you start wailing on someone's head you open yourself up to being shot.

 

[Nebor]

If they are getting paid for 24/7 service they shouldnt be getting paid by someone else.
Would that work in an office? "I'm getting paid for my 8 hours but I'm going to nip off and work for someone else for a few hours around 14:00"



Its up to you guys ultimately but I think most other western countries work without contracting out their policemen and it works for them.
It depends on what you want your police force to be I suppose.

In most cases (to satisfy people like you, in England, because US police departments regularly conduct opinion polling of the UK populace,) the department is paid by the business and in turn pays the officer, ensuring that the proper amounts go to FICA, Social Security, etc. So it's more like the department paying overtime to the officer for working in a specific area, funded by the taxpayer in that specific area.

As I said in another post, England seems to be the only English speaking country that doesn't allow off duty officers to work in security roles.

 

[mizzou]

If they are getting paid for 24/7 service they shouldnt be getting paid by someone else.
Would that work in an office? "I'm getting paid for my 8 hours but I'm going to nip off and work for someone else for a few hours around 14:00"

they aren't compensated for 24/7 service. Off duty responding is a moral and legal obligation.

They work 40 hours a week, any time over that is paid overtime. Any "extra work" like at fair's, races, baseball games, HAS to be dept. approved and scheduled. You don't wear a uniform unless a dept. orders you to be there.

That's why it's paid overtime...because any work outside the normal schedule, is overtime.

Some people work 50-60 hour weeks routinely, just to make the bills. (of course, it also generally involves an unsound divorce judgment that needs to be paid off..or worst case scenario...a boat )

Many people in the private sector do the same thing..in a different way. It's like paid contracting.

Nobody working at a baseball game is doing so on their "Regular" time (unless they ahve a specific unit designated to operate at special events) Everyone else has already put their 40 hours in

 

[Nebor]

In Canada cops make over $100,000 a year, some are making over $150,000. They get paid incredible amounts of money to stand at intersections, to stand near construction sites, to stand outside of buildings, etc...

So? If you think it's easy money, put on the badge and start manhandling bleeding crackheads into the backseats of cars.

 

[Nebor]

Nobody working at a baseball game is doing so on their "Regular" time (unless they ahve a specific unit designated to operate at special events) Everyone else has already put their 40 hours in

I've found it to be interesting how some business get on duty officers assigned. It's all about who you know. One of my buddies in the DPD got stuck assigned to an office building downtown for 6 months, was the most boring time of his life.

 

[WelshBloke]

Are you paid hourly or monthly? If you're salaried, would your employer care if you worked a side job as long as it didn't interfere with your regular job...and didn't cause a conflict of interest?

Well someone mentioned that they were paid for 24/7 service. I cant think of any job I've had that would be happy for me to ah heck off and get paid by someone else whilst still holding my original employer responsible for any mistakes I made.

 

[Nebor]

Well someone mentioned that they were paid for 24/7 service. I cant think of any job I've had that would be happy for me to ah heck off and get paid by someone else whilst still holding my original employer responsible for any mistakes I made.

Salaried hospital doctors working part time at low-income clinics come to mind.

 

[WelshBloke]

In most cases (to satisfy people like you, in England, because US police departments regularly conduct opinion polling of the UK populace,) the department is paid by the business and in turn pays the officer, ensuring that the proper amounts go to FICA, Social Security, etc. So it's more like the department paying overtime to the officer for working in a specific area, funded by the taxpayer in that specific area.

They work 40 hours a week, any time over that is paid overtime. Any "extra work" like at fair's, races, baseball games, HAS to be dept. approved and scheduled. You don't wear a uniform unless a dept. orders you to be there.

That's why it's paid overtime...because any work outside the normal schedule, is overtime.

See now these are the things you should have said earlier and I wouldn't have had to go into full neckbeard mode.

If its contracted to the police department its a different thing to employing a police man privately as a security guard.

 

[mizzou]

I've found it to be interesting how some business get on duty officers assigned. It's all about who you know. One of my buddies in the DPD got stuck assigned to an office building downtown for 6 months, was the most boring time of his life.

usually it's like a Security type gig. Big police depts have their own uniformed security officers, they may even wear different uniforms and badges.

But for baseball stadiums or that type of stuff, it's the same guys. It can be a really boring gig or enjoyable.

Regardless of where they go, I'm pretty sure they pay the cost? If they don't, I can see that as a taxpayer waste issue.

 

[WelshBloke]

Salaried hospital doctors working part time at low-income clinics come to mind.

Different as they aren't being employed because of their position as a doctor at a poorly paid clinic.

They are just doing some extra work.

Policemen are employed as private sec specifically because they bring the authority given to their previous job with them.

 

[mizzou]

See now these are the things you should have said earlier and I wouldn't have had to go into full neckbeard mode.

If its contracted to the police department its a different thing to employing a police man privately as a security guard.

policing in britain is where we initially got our policing from, but it is very different.

I was wondering what the difference was, but I knew it was a cultural one

<3

 

[BoomerD]

Well someone mentioned that they were paid for 24/7 service. I cant think of any job I've had that would be happy for me to ah heck off and get paid by someone else whilst still holding my original employer responsible for any mistakes I made.

If you're an exempt salaried worker, (at least by US labor laws) you're technically getting paid 24/7...although your actual work hours may be spelled out by contract...it's not uncommon for salaried workers to work 60 or more hours in a week without any extra compensation...and many can be called into work at night or on weekends without receiving any extra pay.

Cops are USUALLY paid by the month...and their job description generally makes them responsible for enforcing the law, even when they're off duty...a cop who is off duty isn't supposed to ignore a crime just because he's off duty.

 

[mizzou]

If you're an exempt salaried worker, (at least by US labor laws) you're technically getting paid 24/7...although your actual work hours may be spelled out by contract...it's not uncommon for salaried workers to work 60 or more hours in a week without any extra compensation...and many can be called into work at night or on weekends without receiving any extra pay.

Cops are USUALLY paid by the month...and their job description generally makes them responsible for enforcing the law, even when they're off duty...a cop who is off duty isn't supposed to ignore a crime just because he's off duty.

my wife is salaried, when she takes a personal day to work somewhere else, she has to take a day of unpaid leave.

I thought it was crazy at first, personal time is personal time, but basically, if you leave your work to work somewhere else, technically you are not within your "contract"

Makes sense to me

If teachers were paid hourly, you couldn't even imagine the amount of overtime abuse!

 

[WelshBloke]

I was wondering what the difference was, but I knew it was a cultural one

<3

We are big on the whole policing by consent thing over here. (although its slowly getting eroded )

Also I think that there's a much bigger emphasis on police having to have evidence to back up their position than in the States. A policemans word is probably not going to cut it in court if thats all he has going for him.

Also if you seriously injure someone as a policeman over here prepare to have many departments up your arse for a long time.

 

[WelshBloke]

If you're an exempt salaried worker, (at least by US labor laws) you're technically getting paid 24/7...although your actual work hours may be spelled out by contract...it's not uncommon for salaried workers to work 60 or more hours in a week without any extra compensation...and many can be called into work at night or on weekends without receiving any extra pay.

Dude your labour laws are a whole different bundle of suck, lets not get into those.

Cops are USUALLY paid by the month...and their job description generally makes them responsible for enforcing the law, even when they're off duty...a cop who is off duty isn't supposed to ignore a crime just because he's off duty.

No ones supposed to ignore a crime.

 

[norseamd]

Also I think that there's a much bigger emphasis on police having to have evidence to back up their position than in the States. A policemans word is probably not going to cut it in court if thats all he has going for him. Also if you seriously injure someone as a policeman over here prepare to have many departments up your arse for a long time.

you might be from wales so this might be different for you (always wanted to go there by the way)

where does this fit in with the minorities in london and the riots

 

[WelshBloke]

you might be from wales so this might be different for you (always wanted to go there by the way)

It rains a lot. As long as your OK with drizzle you'll like it.

where does this fit in with the minorities in london and the riots

How many people did the police shoot in the riots? (why the minorities thing? The riots weren't a race thing really.)

 

[norseamd]

How many people did the police shoot in the riots? (why the minorities thing? The riots weren't a race thing really.)

but they were a discontent with police and a minority altercation and social class and wealth as well. is this right?

 

[BoomerD]

my wife is salaried, when she takes a personal day to work somewhere else, she has to take a day of unpaid leave.

I thought it was crazy at first, personal time is personal time, but basically, if you leave your work to work somewhere else, technically you are not within your "contract"

Makes sense to me

If teachers were paid hourly, you couldn't even imagine the amount of overtime abuse!

If she takes a day off work to work somewhere else...that makes sense. If she worked a second job...NOT teaching, then it's none of the employer's business.

Dude your labour laws are a whole different bundle of suck, lets not get into those.



No ones supposed to ignore a crime.

Why? I'm not a cop. If I see someone breaking the law, all I can REALLY do is call the cops...it's highly unlikely I'll intervene. If I call and report a crime, I'm probably gonna get dragged into court...that means time out of my "busy" day...and I hate/distrust lawyers even more than I do cops.