What a day! Man gets married, gets shot and killed while fighting with a cop

[mizzou]

Ummm, how about the fact that cops should protect bushinesses without asking for extra money.

Its sounding very close to a protection racket the way you guys are describing it.

 

[WelshBloke]

Pay us money and we'll protect you, if you don't.... well who knows what will happen.

You don't see the problem with using publicly funded servants as private security guards?

 

[MrPickins]

Ummm, how about the fact that cops should protect bushinesses without asking for extra money.

Its sounding very close to a protection racket the way you guys are describing it.

It's called picking up some side money/overtime...

Would you rather the cop went home and sat on the couch instead?

Pay us money and we'll protect you, if you don't.... well who knows what will happen.

You don't see the problem with using publicly funded servants as private security guards?

wat

 

[mizzou]

Pay us money and we'll protect you, if you don't.... well who knows what will happen.

You don't see the problem with using publicly funded servants as private security guards?

Private security guards can't arrest people. They also don't know how to enforce the local laws. And it's not publicly funded if the business pays for them..which in essence is what happens.

Having an actual cop on hand, especially in a hotel, can make things so much easier when you get a bunch of drunk assholes causing problems.

You don't have problems seeing uniformed police at football/soccer games? It's the same thing.

 

[boomhower]

Ummm, how about the fact that cops should protect bushinesses without asking for extra money.

Its sounding very close to a protection racket the way you guys are describing it.

They certainly do. They can't be everywhere at once. If the officer working that part of town is on a domestic and a fight breaks out, shooting or a robbery occurs the response time can be lengthy for another one to come from another part of town.

It's really a deterrent more than anything else. It's keeps out the riffraff to start with keeping problems from starting to begin with. Criminals with ill intent tend to not come around when a uniformed officer is standing at the door or in the parking lot.

 

[BoomerD]

Pay us money and we'll protect you, if you don't.... well who knows what will happen.

You don't see the problem with using publicly funded servants as private security guards?

While cops are cops 24/7, they're not "on duty" 24/7. They still retain their powers of arrest, even when off duty.

I don't have a problem with a cop hiring out for private security during his/her off-duty hours.

On-duty cops would still respond to any calls of trouble at the event...having a private security guard who is a sworn peace officer offers a higher level of security than non-peace officers.

Me, if for some reason, I get confronted by a security guard, my FIRST question is, "Are you a sworn peace officer?" If the answer is yes, I generally comply. if the answer is no, I usually tell them to fuck off. Security guards who are not sworn peace officers have to abide by a whole separate set of rules...and private citizens do not have to obey their orders. (of course, they CAN call the cops...and in many cases, they're allowed to restrain you while they wait for the cops...but not in ALL cases...and in some cases they can be charged with unlawful restraint or even false imprisonment.

 

[WelshBloke]

It's called picking up some side money/overtime...

Would you rather the cop went home and sat on the couch instead?

Is the guy being a cop or a private security guard?

Who has liability if he fucks up? Who is he taking instruction from, his "official" employer or his "extra" employer?

If he wants to go be a private security guard in his spare time fair enough, just leave the uniform and weight of public authority behind.

 

[WelshBloke]

They certainly do. They can't be everywhere at once.

So all businesses are equal apart from the ones that cant afford protection?

 

[BoomerD]

So all businesses are equal apart from the ones that cant afford protection?

You're trolling...you can't really be "neckbeard stupid."

All businesses do get equal protection. Companies who want EXTRA protection pay for it.

 

[WelshBloke]

You don't have problems seeing uniformed police at football/soccer games? It's the same thing.

Thats different in that its the police acting as police men under the control of the police but charging the football club for the cost of policing the event.

Its not the football club acting as employees of privately hired people.

 

[mizzou]

Is the guy being a cop or a private security guard?

Who has liability if he fucks up? Who is he taking instruction from, his "official" employer or his "extra" employer?

If he wants to go be a private security guard in his spare time fair enough, just leave the uniform and weight of public authority behind.

???????


The badge will have his dept. information on it...so technically he answers to them.

If he fucks up, he is wearing that badge, not Mariott Inn & Suites.

You do realize they make their own decisions on the fly, and they don't just follow instructions like a robot?

 

[WelshBloke]

You're trolling...you can't really be "neckbeard stupid."

All businesses do get equal protection. Companies who want EXTRA protection pay for it.

So equal but not equal?

Really how are they equal if one is getting extra protection?

 

[skull]

Pay us money and we'll protect you, if you don't.... well who knows what will happen.

You don't see the problem with using publicly funded servants as private security guards?

You don't understand this is on site secruity. If something happens the actual on duty cops will still show up. This is just extra on site protection. To prevent stuff from happeneing.

My local grocery store has had one of these cops for years. I guess they got expensive because now theres an armed rent a cop there. Well see how that turns out.

 

[WelshBloke]

???????


The badge will have his dept. information on it...so technically he answers to them.

If he fucks up, he is wearing that badge, not Mariott Inn & Suites.

You do realize they make their own decisions on the fly, and they don't just follow instructions like a robot?

So is he being a cop, funded by the public and answerable to the taxpayer or is he being a security guard and a private employee answerable to his private employer?

 

[mizzou]

So equal but not equal?

Really how are they equal if one is getting extra protection?

here in the US, we don't have police officers on every street. If you want extra special attention, you can ask for it and then pay for it. Let's say you are hosting an event at your racing track and it will attract 10x more business then usual.

You want a bit more security on hand at the track, so you go to the police dept. and ask for 5-10 uniformed officers for extra patrol.

They give you a bill estimate, and set up the officers.

Then the police arrive and spend 80% of the time watching HULU on their phones.

All this, at no extra cost to the tax-payer and no loss of patrol services!



It's the businesses decision. They can choose not to do it, and just have no security at all...or pay for "licensed security officers"...which is a bit like raising an army of militiamen vs. line infantry.

So is he being a cop, funded by the public and answerable to the taxpayer or is he being a security guard and a private employee answerable to his private employer?

He is being a cop, funded by a private business. Answerable only to the law. If a business says, "Hey, kick those dirtbag kids off my property!" Then they can technically enforce it because a private business can say who is trespassing and who isn't.

Now if he says "Kill the purple people!" Obviously they won't answer to that because it is illegal, immoral, and no law allows it.

 

[Red Squirrel]

LOL wut? At what point would you wanna escalate to deadly force, after he's unconscious and the guy keeps wailing on him?

What I'm trying to say is instead of that other cop just standing there waiting to take a shot, he could have gone in to help. 2vs1 at that point instead of sitting back and watching a 1vs1. It was also kind of unsafe to shoot given they were moving and he could have accidentally shot the cop.

From the video it looks like someone else takes a shot and you see someone running towards them (guessing the other cop) but now that I watch it again maybe that's not the person that shot, was it the cop himself that shot? Stupid vertical video. If it's the cop himself that shot that changes everything. While having your head bashed in you just pull the first weapon you can reach and use it.

Why is America filled with people who dont know HOW TO USE THEIR FUCKING CELL PHONE???!!!!

Yeah I don't understand why so many people take videos vertically. There's just no reason for it and it's super annoying.

 

[norseamd]

Me, if for some reason, I get confronted by a security guard, my FIRST question is, "Are you a sworn peace officer?" If the answer is yes, I generally comply. if the answer is no, I usually tell them to fuck off. Security guards who are not sworn peace officers have to abide by a whole separate set of rules...and private citizens do not have to obey their orders. (of course, they CAN call the cops...and in many cases, they're allowed to restrain you while they wait for the cops...but not in ALL cases...and in some cases they can be charged with unlawful restraint or even false imprisonment.

your given response based on whether or not someone is a police officer is the root of the problem. there is no thought of whether something is just or not. only do you have power or not. this is becoming a larger and more troubling problem.

 

[mizzou]

What I'm trying to say is instead of that other cop just standing there waiting to take a shot, he could have gone in to help. 2vs1 at that point instead of sitting back and watching a 1vs1. It was also kind of unsafe to shoot given they were moving and he could have accidentally shot the cop.

From the video it looks like someone else takes a shot and you see someone running towards them (guessing the other cop) but now that I watch it again maybe that's not the person that shot, was it the cop himself that shot? Stupid vertical video. If it's the cop himself that shot that changes everything. While having your head bashed in you just pull the first weapon you can reach and use it.




Yeah I don't understand why so many people take videos vertically. There's just no reason for it and it's super annoying.

You have me confused.

I believe the chain of events is:

Off-duty uniformed cop chases suspect involved in an assault
They tussle at a sidewalk later on
Suspect pins officer to sidewalk during struggle, and strikes him repeatedly in the face, causing him to lose consciousness.
Officer pulls out his service weapon while getting hammer fisted and shoots him twice.



I'm not aware of a 2nd officer up until and after the shooting.

 

[etrigan420]

here in the US, we don't have police officers on every street. If you want extra special attention, you can ask for it and then pay for it. Let's say you are hosting an event at your racing track and it will attract 10x more business then usual.

You want a bit more security on hand at the track, so you go to the police dept. and ask for 5-10 uniformed officers for extra patrol.

They give you a bill estimate, and set up the officers.

Then the police arrive and spend 80% of the time watching HULU on their phones.

All this, at no extra cost to the tax-payer and no loss of patrol services!



It's the businesses decision. They can choose not to do it, and just have no security at all...or pay for "licensed security officers"...which is a bit like raising an army of militiamen vs. line infantry.




He is being a cop, funded by a private business. Answerable only to the law. If a business says, "Hey, kick those dirtbag kids off my property!" Then they can technically enforce it because a private business can say who is trespassing and who isn't.

Now if he says "Kill the purple people!" Obviously they won't answer to that because it is illegal, immoral, and no law allows it.

Horrible idea.

"He is being a cop, funded by a private business"...

He should be able to moonlight all he wants, but there should be a line between enforcing public vs. private policy.

 

[WelshBloke]

He is being a cop, funded by a private business. Answerable only to the law. If a business says, "Hey, kick those dirtbag kids off my property!" Then they can technically enforce it because a private business can say who is trespassing and who isn't.

Now if he says "Kill the purple people!" Obviously they won't answer to that because it is illegal, immoral, and no law allows it.

See to me a cop is defined by the fact that he is funded, and answerable to the public. The origins of the word police and the way they hold their authority show that that authority comes from the government not from whoever can afford it.

In short the police gain their authority because we the people give them that authority to police us. Its not given to them because we are the ones who can pay, thats what private security is for.

 

[Nebor]

They give you a bill estimate, and set up the officers.

Then the police arrive and spend 80% of the time watching HULU on their phones.

I've got friends in half a dozen different Dallas-area departments. If it pays less than $50\hr, it has to have wifi.

Not to mention that a trained eye will observe plenty of idling on-duty cruisers parked outside businesses with open, strong-signalled wifi.

 

[mizzou]

See to me a cop is defined by the fact that he is funded, and answerable to the public. The origins of the word police and the way they hold their authority show that that authority comes from the government not from whoever can afford it.

In short the police gain their authority because we the people give them that authority to police us. Its not given to them because we are the ones who can pay, thats what private security is for.

they are still answerable to the public. The business just pays extra money to have more of them around.

I don't understand where you are getting this privatized police force idea from, but that is not what happens here.

 

[Nebor]

See to me a cop is defined by the fact that he is funded, and answerable to the public. The origins of the word police and the way they hold their authority show that that authority comes from the government not from whoever can afford it.

In short the police gain their authority because we the people give them that authority to police us. Its not given to them because we are the ones who can pay, thats what private security is for.

And they are paid for 24/7 service as police officers. Even federal law enforcement officers are paid "law enforcement availability pay" over and above their GS pay grade to compensate them for the fact that they are always expected to perform their duties when required, regardless of whether they're on duty or not.

If their department chooses to allow them to work "off-duty" jobs, they are still police officers while performing that job. The business is paying for them to to concentrate their efforts in a particular location, with the approval of the department.

I'm not sure what the alternative is. If all of their work were publicly funded with taxes, every business would request "extra" protection, and the system wouldn't work. Security guards are a tricky proposition because they don't have arrest powers in most states, along with some other legal differences.

 

[mizzou]

Look at it this way WelshBloke. At any time, a private business could call a police agency and say, "Help me, I'm being robbed!" or "Help me, I have a fight of 100 drunk assholes!"

By paying extra money when the likelihood is high there is being an issue...or there is ALWAYS a likelihood of need....Police Dept.s don't have to waste resources there because they are not staffed with certain unusual events in mind.

THat way, they don't have to call and say, "THere's a bar fight!" because they are already there :awe:

 

[JumBie]

Ummm, how about the fact that cops should protect bushinesses without asking for extra money.

Its sounding very close to a protection racket the way you guys are describing it.

You didn't know? The cops are like the mafia, they charge you for protection but never provide it.