Was Hitler a Christian?

[Nik]

How silly. If you don't follow the Sermon on the Mount starting in Matthew 4 (pretty sure it was 4, I threw away my Bible years ago), then you aren't a Christian. Plain and simple Hitler most certainly did not follow the teachings of Christ and therefore cannot be a Christian.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Doesn't matter what he claimed.....his life indicates that he was not a Christian. Even if he was baptized as one (and I don't know whether he was or not) that doesn't automatically make you a Christian the rest of your life. You have to walk the walk, and obviously, he did not.

So what's the point?

Look, I see the "no true scotsman" fallacy being bandied about here a lot. Obviously, it is possible for someone to believe one thing and act completely contrary to their beliefs. He sometimes claimed to be christian and sometimes indicated that he wasn't. I think the real answer is that whether or not he was christian is irrelevant to ANY argument and there is no good reason to discuss his faith or lack thereof.

If someone tries to say "well hitler was a christian" or "well hitler was an atheist", they are already making a fallacious argument and should be called on it. Clearly, Hitler's actions were not a result of his belief in god or lack thereof, they were caused by his megalomania and tendency to believe in conspiracy fantasy.

winn. ar.

Originally posted by: preslove
Considering that Hitler's final solution was the crescendo of European, Christian Anti-Semitism, then yes Hitler not only was a Christian, but he was probably the greatest champion of a key Christian ideology (i.e. jews killed jesus, so lets kill us some jews).

Christianity has been anti-semitic since the gospel of John.

Please explain. Are you saying the Bible is anti-semitic?

 

[Nik]

LOL @ Jews killed Jesus :laugh:

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: Nik
How silly. If you don't follow the Sermon on the Mount starting in Matthew 4 (pretty sure it was 4, I threw away my Bible years ago), then you aren't a Christian. Plain and simple Hitler most certainly did not follow the teachings of Christ and therefore cannot be a Christian.

im pretty sure you are a christian. you sure act like one.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: Nik
How silly. If you don't follow the Sermon on the Mount starting in Matthew 4 (pretty sure it was 4, I threw away my Bible years ago), then you aren't a Christian. Plain and simple Hitler most certainly did not follow the teachings of Christ and therefore cannot be a Christian.

im pretty sure you are a christian. you sure act like one.

I'm pretty sure you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

 

[Babbles]

I'm pretty sure he was just a Nazi scum.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Nik
How silly. If you don't follow the Sermon on the Mount starting in Matthew 4 (pretty sure it was 4, I threw away my Bible years ago), then you aren't a Christian. Plain and simple Hitler most certainly did not follow the teachings of Christ and therefore cannot be a Christian.

Chapter 5. And yes, you are correct. The sermon starts of with the Beatitudes, which cover the essential attribute to become a Christian, and the attributes that all Christians should have and will develop. The rest of the sermon (chapters 5 through 7) contrasts hypocrital (superifical) faith and true faith.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
He possibly could be a Christian. To God, all sin is equal. We can't really comprehend that as to us, killing people is WAY worse then stealing a bag of chips from the store, and yes it is worse, but either one is a sin, and is impurity, which deserves hell.

Thankfully if you believe Jesus died on the cross and ask him to forgive your sins that makes you a Christian. It's really that easy, so even Hitler could possibly do it.

That is NOT a universal train of thought. That is called "Once saved, always saved." Common with some non-denominational evangelical protestants.

 

[yhelothar]

I always thought he was atheist, but he held great reverence to the Spear of Destiny and held on it in the belief that it'd allow him to conquer the world.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Doesn't matter what he claimed.....his life indicates that he was not a Christian. Even if he was baptized as one (and I don't know whether he was or not) that doesn't automatically make you a Christian the rest of your life. You have to walk the walk, and obviously, he did not.

So what's the point?

Killing your enemies IS walking the walk. Have you not read the bible? Have you not followed the history of Christianity? Hitler might have been a Christian, he might not have been a Christian, it doesn't really matter. He most certainly acted like one though, so even if he wasn't he got an honorary membership.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: her209
Isn't it a sin to judge the Christianess of another?

No, that's not what the passage says. What is almost invariably left out is the clarifying quote that immediately follows it, "For with the judgement you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get." (Matt 7:2, NRSV)

The passage is not saying that we are not allowed to judge, but rather saying that we shall ourselves be judged by the same methods we use to judge others. See also the "Lord's prayer" where we are instructed to ask God to, "forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors." (Matt 6:12, NRSV) In other words, our own debts will only be forgiven to the extent that we forgive the debts of others.

ZV

 

[zerocool84]

Some people are saying that since he did not follow the Christian ways exactly, it makes him not Christian. Well how many people here not follow the Christian ways to the letter and still call themselves Christian???

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Doesn't matter what he claimed.....his life indicates that he was not a Christian. Even if he was baptized as one (and I don't know whether he was or not) that doesn't automatically make you a Christian the rest of your life. You have to walk the walk, and obviously, he did not.

So what's the point?

Killing your enemies IS walking the walk. Have you not read the bible? Have you not followed the history of Christianity? Hitler might have been a Christian, he might not have been a Christian, it doesn't really matter. He most certainly acted like one though, so even if he wasn't he got an honorary membership.

Those guilty of the Cruisades were not Christians. Christ's death on the cross fulfilled the Abrahamic covenant, fulfilling the Old Testament law. Many things like animal sacrifice to absolve sin wasn't required anymore. The only law that matters, the only "this is how you be a Christian" that matters is Christ's sermon on the mount.

Saying that killing people is a requirement of being a Christian is profoundly ignorant.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Some people are saying that since he did not follow the Christian ways exactly, it makes him not Christian. Well how many people here not follow the Christian ways to the letter and still call themselves Christian???

That is an excellent question. A very valid point The answer is that, if you are a Christian, your faith will bear fruit. If you're just another nutjob zealot going to church every sunday and doing your own thing 6.5 days out of the week, you're not.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: preslove
Christianity has been anti-semitic since the gospel of John.

Beg pardon? What is there in John that can be rationally considered to be anti-semitic?

ZV

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Some people are saying that since he did not follow the Christian ways exactly, it makes him not Christian. Well how many people here not follow the Christian ways to the letter and still call themselves Christian???

Claiming to be something doesn't mean that you are what you are claiming to be.
I could say I am a vampire, but that doesn't mean I am. I could claim to be generous, but my actions could show the opposite. Actions speak louder than words, and a tree is known by its fruit.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Babbles
I'm pretty sure he was just a Nazi scum.

I think you just won the thread.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Some people are saying that since he did not follow the Christian ways exactly, it makes him not Christian. Well how many people here not follow the Christian ways to the letter and still call themselves Christian???

Claiming to be something doesn't mean that you are what you are claiming to be.
I could say I am a vampire, but that doesn't mean I am. I could claim to be generous, but my actions could show the opposite. Actions speak louder than words, and a tree is known by its fruit.

If you couldn't tell, that's what I was getting at.

 

[FeuerFrei]

lol - a christian, suuure

I've always heard he was hardcore atheist. It's common for atheists to place little to no value on human life and some will love death.

Anyone claiming Hitler was christian have GOT to have an agenda because the facts don't support it. Might want to background check them for their views on Christianity in general.

 

[Nemesis 1]

What the hell LOCK this thread. What the hell kind of a question is that . Hitler could call himself anything he wanted to. That doesn't mean its so . I know Millions of people who claim to be christians that haven't a clue . Ya pick up a gun you kill someone with it because your governments said its OK . Your NOT a Christian . Anyone whos says differant dooms themselves to hell its a false teaching inspired by Rome . You want to ask stupid questions . Google Pope and the Nazi . Get eyes opened. Geez!

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Some people are saying that since he did not follow the Christian ways exactly, it makes him not Christian. Well how many people here not follow the Christian ways to the letter and still call themselves Christian???

Claiming to be something doesn't mean that you are what you are claiming to be.
I could say I am a vampire, but that doesn't mean I am. I could claim to be generous, but my actions could show the opposite. Actions speak louder than words, and a tree is known by its fruit.

If you couldn't tell, that's what I was getting at.

Ultimately, whether a person is truly a Christian or not is something God knows and the person (if he/she is a true Christian) will know. If you aren't seeing any fruit from a person who claims to be a Christian, then you can reasonably assume that he/she is not a Christian.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. " Galatians 5:22

In contrast, The deeds of the flesh are: "immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. "

Key word is practice. Continuing in sin, without repenting (turning away), is a heavy indication that a person is not truly saved. One of the signs of life is growth, and if a Christian is not growing spiritually (becoming more like Christ) that person may not be a Christian at all.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
What the hell LOCK this thread. What the hell kind of a question is that . Hitler could call himself anything he wanted to. That doesn't mean its so . I know Millions of people who claim to be christians that haven't a clue . Ya pick up a gun you kill someone with it because your governments said its OK . Your NOT a Christian . Anyone whos says differant dooms themselves to hell its a false teaching inspired by Rome . You want to ask stupid questions . Google Pope and the Nazi . Get eyes opened. Geez!

You know millions of people? Can you name them all?

Why do you type like you're 6 years old?

 

[thraashman]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
lol - a christian, suuure

I've always heard he was hardcore atheist. It's common for atheists to place little to no value on human life and some will love death.

Anyone claiming Hitler was christian have GOT to have an agenda because the facts don't support it. Might want to background check them for their views on Christianity in general.

I'm thinking you've never met anyone who was an atheist. As I myself am one and have met many many atheists, I've never met a single one who didn't place the value of human life anywhere but at the highest echelon. Atheists believe that this life is all we get and therefore it's the most important thing there is. I have met many, many Christians who place the value of human life extremely low because they believe the afterlife is the important part.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
What the hell LOCK this thread. What the hell kind of a question is that . Hitler could call himself anything he wanted to. That doesn't mean its so . I know Millions of people who claim to be christians that haven't a clue . Ya pick up a gun you kill someone with it because your governments said its OK . Your NOT a Christian . Anyone whos says differant dooms themselves to hell its a false teaching inspired by Rome . You want to ask stupid questions . Google Pope and the Nazi . Get eyes opened. Geez!

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[AreaCode7O7]

Originally posted by: Nik
How silly. If you don't follow the Sermon on the Mount starting in Matthew 4 (pretty sure it was 4, I threw away my Bible years ago), then you aren't a Christian. Plain and simple Hitler most certainly did not follow the teachings of Christ and therefore cannot be a Christian.

I'll debate you on that, nik. Nobody is able to actually follow in the teachings of Christ all the time, I'm sure you'll agree. The debate then becomes, "how much effort do you need to put into / how often do you need to succeed in following the teachings of Christ to be classified Christian?" Then we simply argue back and forth about an imaginary line in the sand using differently-interpreted scripture.

I would say that the mark of a Christian includes someone who attempts whatsoever to follow the teachings of Christ, repents their repeated failures to succeed in doing so, and goes back to trying again.