Was Hitler a Christian?

[Nik]

For the 6th time, post one.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: preslove
Unless the publisher misrepresented the content of the book with the title. I would say feel confident that the book will confirm what I learned about the creation of the new testament from Ehrman.

Sure, "christianity" might not be antisemitic (depending on your definition of it) but there ARE antisemitic passages in the bible.

Instead of reading other books about why the gospel of John is supposedly anti-semitic, why not read it (and the NT) yourself? I see no claims anywhere in scripture that are against the Jewish people, racially speaking. Like I said before, John referred to the Jews killing Jesus, but that primarily focuses on the leadership responsible (it's just to hold authorities of any religion or race accountable for crimes) and the very people who were clamoring for his death. The Romans, representative of the rest of the world, because of the global nature of their empire (politically, not geographically, but also according to worldview in Daniel and elsewhere), were also responsible. In essence, all of humanity was responsible and held accountable for the death of Jesus. Remember, though, that Jesus Himself went willingly to die for sin, and in order to defeat death and lead the way for us Christians to follow Him.

The most you can say about the gospel of John is that it is against some Jews, which is to say it isn't against Jews at all. John himself was a Jew. His brother, James, was a Jew. His father was a Jew, his mother was a Jew. His fellow disciples were Jews. You don't see any hatred in his writing concerning any of them. Most of the people Jesus healed, and ones that came to faith, were Jews. Even Nicodemus and Jospeph of Arimathea were Jews with high authority (they were part of the Sanhedrin, IIRC, but don't quote me on that) that held Jesus with high regard, and were followers of His.

There is nothing, nothing, NOTHING in scriptures to support hatred of the Jewish people. They were and are flawed people that sinned against God, but the same can be said to the same, or greater, extent about every Gentile people. The Bible is the the only book, the only guide, for a Christian to follow in order to live the Christian life. If you are seeing anything that is anti-Semitic outside the Bible, that is irrelevant to the Christian walk, and it is un-Christian.

If you have any references that you think demonstrate anti-semitism, please share. The trouble usually comes when people take things out of context, and it is never a good idea for anything to be taken out of context if you want to understand truth. This applies to pretty much everything.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: preslove
Pot meets kettle. You haven't posted a single source to back up your assertions.

You made the assertion that they are anti-semitic, you must provide the proof. I have listed the original source and made it clear that the use of the phrase "the Jews" in John is merely phraseological shorthand. You have given nothing that counters this.

Originally posted by: preslove
The later gospels were written after the the jewish-roman wars, and they reflect the rift between the jews and christians, which is why "the jews" killed jesus in John. The gospels were written by people with agendas, which are laid by by any critical reading of them. It just so happens that the agenda of the writer of John conflicted with the jews who didn't believe in jesus.

I learned this while listening to over 30 hours of lectures by Bart Ehrman: Historical Jesus & Lost Christianities and From Jesus to Constantine: A History of Early Christianity .

Again, no specific references or quotations from the work, just more proslytizing for a guy with an obvious axe to grind.

Originally posted by: preslove
Let's look at the title of the book again:

Who Killed Jesus?: Exposing the Roots of Anti-Semitism in the Gospel Story of the Death of Jesus

Unless the publisher misrepresented the content of the book with the title. I would say feel confident that the book will confirm what I learned about the creation of the new testament from Ehrman.

Sure, "christianity" might not be antisemitic (depending on your definition of it) but there ARE antisemitic passages in the bible.

"THIS BOOK'S TITLE and subtitle are somewhat misleading, since who killed Jesus is never really in doubt, and the roots of anti-semitism in the passion narratives constitute a relatively minor theme. The book is primarily a rebuttal of Raymond Brown's two-volume The Death of the Messiah."

Again, this book is not claiming that gospels themselves are anti-semitic. It is claiming that they are anti-Jewish. The differentiation being that "anti-semitic" refers to the Jewish "race" while "anti-Jewish" refers to the religion of Judaism. Naturally, Christianity must necessarily be "anti-Jewish" in the sense that Christianity, by claiming to be correct, must assume that the religion of Judaism is somehow incorrect or incomplete. To assume that this is the same as being against the Jewish race is simpleminded beyond the point of ridiculousness, but it is just this confusion that has caused ignorant people, such as yourself, to continually misapply the label of anti-semitic to the gospels.

I do not expect you to be swayed by cogent argument however as you have already proven yourself to be quite impervious to properly-functioning reason. Any third-party can see well enough the distinctions I have made and I am confident enough to allow what I have said thusfar to stand. You're simply not worth any further amount of my time.

ZV

 

[Nik]

ZV: eleventy
preslove: nuffin

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: preslove
wall of text

Christ is responsible for his sacrifice. Nobody else. To believe otherwise destroys the concept of Christ being God.

Um... do you know anything about the New Testament? The jews are repeatedly blamed for killing jesus.

Yes, I'm well aware of the trite of ignorant masses.

If human beings can kill Jesus (read: if Jesus was unwilling but was crusified anyway), that makes man more powerful than God.

These are simple concepts, preslove. You learn them in sunday school. It's pretty irritating to see arguments about who was responsible for his death. Why do you think Christ was in the garden praying so hard he sweat blood? God the father was like hey dude, yer screwed and Christ was like wtfnowaihax ... but okay I know this is necessary to save humanity, I'll do it.

And are you aware that the first Gospel didn't mention Jesus as Messiah, that the Messiah story was introduced years later by a Jew living in Turkey who thought the first Gospel was not Jewish enough and therefor rewrote it? That was the second Gospel, used as basis for many of the others.

The church basically made Jesus into a god.

Edit: Oh, and the Catholic Church supports Holocaust deniers.

 

[rudeguy]

I feel this thread is relevant today